15:54:54 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #swd
15:54:54 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-irc
15:55:01 <RalphS> Meeting: SWD WG
15:55:07 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #swd
15:55:13 <RalphS> zakim, this will be swd
15:55:13 <Zakim> ok, RalphS; I see SW_SWD()11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
15:55:22 <RalphS> rrsagent, please make record public
15:55:30 <berrueta> berrueta has joined #swd
15:55:45 <TomB> TomB has joined #swd
15:55:56 <RalphS> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2006Nov/0045.html
15:56:12 <RalphS> Previous: 2006-11-14 http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-swd-minutes.html
15:58:54 <Zakim> SW_SWD()11:00AM has now started
15:59:04 <Zakim> +Tom_Baker
15:59:07 <Zakim> +Ralph
15:59:14 <Antoine> Antoine has joined #swd
15:59:22 <aliman> tomb, can I ask for an agenda item to clarify subscription and posting to swd mailing list for non-SWD members?
16:00:15 <JonP> JonP has joined #swd
16:00:18 <Zakim> +raphael
16:00:29 <Zakim> +??P8
16:00:35 <seanb> seanb has joined #swd
16:00:40 <RalphS> zakim, ??p8 is Alistair
16:00:49 <Zakim> +Alistair; got it
16:00:57 <Zakim> +JonP
16:01:13 <Zakim> +Guus_Schreiber
16:01:14 <Zakim> +Jose
16:01:31 <berrueta> Zakim, Jose is really me
16:01:31 <Zakim> +berrueta; got it
16:01:38 <Zakim> +??P15
16:01:47 <guus> guus has joined #swd
16:01:47 <RalphS> zakim, raphael is really Antoine
16:01:47 <Zakim> +Antoine; got it
16:02:07 <guus> zakim, who is here?
16:02:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ralph, Tom_Baker, Antoine, Alistair, JonP, Guus_Schreiber, berrueta, ??P15
16:02:09 <Zakim> On IRC I see guus, seanb, JonP, Antoine, TomB, berrueta, Zakim, RRSAgent, aliman, RalphS
16:02:18 <RalphS> zakim, ??p15 is Sean
16:02:21 <Zakim> +Sean; got it
16:03:00 <Zakim> +Ben_Adida
16:03:41 <Zakim> +??P3
16:03:47 <dlrubin> dlrubin has joined #swd
16:03:59 <RalphS> zakim, ??p3 is Daniel
16:03:59 <Zakim> +Daniel; got it
16:05:12 <RalphS> Chair: Guus
16:05:58 <RalphS> Topic: Admin
16:06:15 <seanb> scribenick: seanb
16:06:50 <guus> zakim, who is here?
16:06:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ralph, Tom_Baker, Antoine, Alistair, JonP, Guus_Schreiber, berrueta, Sean, Ben_Adida, Daniel
16:06:51 <aliman> q+ to ask about subscribing and posting to SWD mailing list for non-SWD members
16:06:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see dlrubin, guus, seanb, JonP, Antoine, TomB, berrueta, Zakim, RRSAgent, aliman, RalphS
16:07:15 <seanb> roll call from zakim
16:07:26 <seanb> Guus: Propose accept minutes
16:07:37 <seanb> Accepted
16:07:45 <seanb> Bernard: seconded
16:08:03 <seanb> Regrets from Ralph next two weeks,
16:08:09 <seanb> Regrets from Daniel next week
16:08:09 <RalphS> RESOLVED: http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-swd-minutes.html accepted as minutes of 2006-11-14 telecon
16:08:25 <seanb> Guus: wiki
16:08:37 <seanb> Ralph: Action is done.
16:08:49 <seanb> ....may need to register users
16:08:53 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Ralph to find out more about the RIF Wiki tools [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-swd-minutes.html#action04]
16:09:02 <seanb> ...please try it out and let Ralph know
16:09:29 <seanb> ...Ralph will follow up after telecon
16:09:42 <seanb> Guus: wiki makes it easier to contribute to home page
16:09:51 <RalphS> Ralph: I apparently need to enable accounts for each WG member
16:10:13 <seanb> Ralph: brief conversation with Sandro re document tools
16:10:35 <seanb> ACTION: Ralph to liaise with Sandro re Documentation tools
16:10:55 <Zakim> aliman, you wanted to ask about subscribing and posting to SWD mailing list for non-SWD members
16:11:11 <seanb> Alistair: Clarification whether non-members can subscribe/post
16:11:25 <seanb> ... to swd mailing list. No link on the mailing list page
16:11:39 <seanb> Ralph: Anyone can post. Subscriptions are more complex
16:11:57 <seanb> ...anyone can read the archive. Subscriptions happen when sign up to WG
16:12:03 <seanb> ...awkward to add others.
16:12:11 <seanb> Alistair: why?
16:12:30 <seanb> Ralph: No good procedural reason as everything's public. No objection if we were
16:12:48 <seanb> ...to allow non-members to subscribe. Needs manual step to approve.
16:13:15 <seanb> Alistair: Mailed to esw-thes list regarding SKOS discussion on this list
16:13:29 <seanb> ...maybe less accessible. 
16:13:46 <seanb> Ralph: Happy to talk about this, but reluctant due to extra overhead.
16:14:04 <seanb> Daniel: For those working on use cases
16:14:18 <seanb> ...how will that work. email goes back and forth with users. 
16:14:34 <seanb> ...these are non-members
16:15:02 <seanb> Alistair: Why not cc swd list?
16:15:16 <seanb> Ralph: Replies will be ok as anyone can post to list.
16:15:23 <seanb> ...carefully use ccs
16:15:45 <seanb> Guus: reply-all and it will all work :-)
16:16:51 <seanb> Sean: Get two copies of lots of emails. Any way of stopping this?
16:17:49 <RalphS> Ralph: I run a procmail rule that eliminates duplicates
16:18:05 <seanb> Topic: SKOS Requirements
16:18:29 <seanb> Guus: Actions
16:18:44 <seanb> ...all to respond to Alistairs proposal. Some traffic. Close?
16:18:57 <seanb> Alistair: keep it open for another week. More feedback please
16:19:10 <seanb> Guus: Alistari work with UCR editors.
16:19:24 <seanb> Alistair: continued. Will draft email once a format is agreed
16:19:50 <seanb> Guus: Daniel to send email about use case. Done
16:19:58 <RalphS> ACTION: all to respond to Alistair's proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-swd-minutes.html#action05]
16:20:00 <RalphS> CONTINUES
16:20:30 <RalphS> ACTION: Alistair work with the UCR editors to draft questions to invite the esw-thes mailing list to contribute to the use cases and requirements [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html#action10]
16:20:33 <RalphS> continues
16:20:50 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Daniel to send mail describing his use cases for SKOS draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/24-swd-minutes.html#action01]
16:21:12 <TomB> RalphS, in my reading of the documentation, it would work to put "DONE" on a line by itself after the pasted action.
16:21:36 <RalphS> rrsagent, please draft minutes
16:21:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-minutes.html RalphS
16:22:15 <seanb> ACTION: Jon, Daniel, Antoine figure out their individual
16:22:15 <seanb>    roles as SKOS Requirements editors [recorded in
16:22:15 <seanb>    [37]http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html#action07]
16:22:15 <seanb> ACTION: Jon, Daniel, Antoine figure out their individual
16:22:15 <seanb>    roles as SKOS Requirements editors [recorded in
16:22:16 <seanb>    [37]http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html#action07]
16:22:18 <seanb> continued
16:22:33 <seanb> Daniel: Tcon set up for December 4th
16:23:02 <seanb> Antoine: Read the use case document. Descriptions that were there match what
16:23:19 <seanb> ...Alistair proposes. But proposal might lead to lonfger documents.
16:23:22 <RalphS> (line breaks when pasting the actions from the agenda will require post-meeting editing cleanup, btw)
16:23:42 <seanb> ...2nd point, Link to part describing the functionality and vocabulary. Should functionality
16:24:01 <seanb> ...be built into the vocabulary? 
16:24:22 <seanb> Guus: Do you see consensus?
16:24:26 <seanb> Antoine: No.
16:24:48 <seanb> Guus: Based on what has been seen, propose a use case format to be used.
16:25:04 <seanb> Alistair: In response, sent email recently suggesting that Antoine is right to put
16:25:15 <seanb> ...more emphasis on vocab. Divide into two sections
16:25:25 <seanb> ...1) Vocabulary. Extracts and description of stuff
16:25:37 <seanb> ...2) One or more applications of the vocabulary
16:25:50 <seanb> ...Distinction between fucntionality and application is good. 
16:26:01 <seanb> ...Could also accept an application-only use case.
16:26:45 <seanb> Guus: Need agreement on format. Propose that we agree in the manner
16:26:56 <seanb> ... AListair jsut summariesed, and move on.
16:27:08 <seanb> ...Antoine and editors take action on this.
16:27:14 <TomB> +1
16:27:50 <seanb> ACTION: Antoine and other editors to write up format. Email to list describing format with an example. 
16:28:49 <seanb> Guus: use cases from Daniel, Bernard and Alistair
16:28:57 <seanb> Sean: also one from me
16:28:58 <TomB> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2006Oct/0044.html
16:29:07 <TomB> -- Sean's usecase, posted by Antoine
16:29:19 <seanb> Alistair: Hoping for more use cases from SKOS list. 
16:29:35 <seanb> ...ought to have use cases for Dewey and UDC, AAT, MeSH etc.
16:30:11 <seanb> ...important to capture these vocabularies representing long history and experience
16:30:32 <seanb> Ralph: Vocabs well respected in comunity. Also have recognition with the public
16:30:49 <TomB> q+ to propose that the requirements editors put the growing list of links to usecases into a document (instead of tracking in the agenda) - maybe on the Wiki?
16:30:50 <seanb> Guus: Timing. Message out to SKOS within a week. Allows time to prepare use case
16:30:54 <RalphS> Ralph: Dewey in particular has name recognition, so nice to have that as a use case
16:30:59 <seanb> ...document for January meeting
16:31:19 <RalphS> s/has name/has broad public name/
16:31:25 <seanb> ??: Number of links to use cases. Get them into a wiki
16:31:32 <seanb> Guus: Use wiki to keep track of this
16:31:34 <RalphS> s/??/Tom/
16:31:48 <seanb> Antoine: Planned to use wiki during the requirements gathering. 
16:32:07 <seanb> Tom: Prefer wiki or cvs? If wiki, need to have access
16:32:48 <TomB> yes, it was me
16:32:51 <seanb> Guus: Good moment to start using the wiki
16:33:17 <seanb> Topic: Other Deliverables
16:33:42 <seanb> Guus: RDF in XHTML?
16:33:58 <seanb> Ben: Little behind in RDFa work
16:34:25 <seanb> ...latest discussion re,. tbl on html/xhtml etc.
16:34:41 <seanb> ...how to make RDFa work in all these things
16:35:02 <seanb> ...apologies for delay. Planning for use case
16:35:11 <seanb> ...and requirements in the next couple of weeks.
16:35:40 <seanb> Ralph: Tom and Ralph discussing how to keep SWD in touch with RDFa. 
16:35:57 <seanb> ...separate RDFa telecons could do with some help/more work
16:36:18 <seanb> Ben: Invitatino open to anyone whop wants to participate. Anyone interested in RDF
16:36:32 <seanb> ...and clickable web should keep an eye on this work.
16:37:00 <seanb> ...Ben needs to attend SWD telecons and will do so! More
16:37:17 <seanb> ...participate welcome. Interesting ideas to make RDFa work in existing browsers.
16:37:40 <seanb> Guus: All people in RDFa work will be participants of SWD
16:38:02 <seanb> Tom: RDFa is intended to be jointly owned by SWD and HTML Activity WG
16:38:17 <TomB> s/Tom/Ralph/
16:38:37 <seanb> ...charters for HTML activity not yet out for approval.
16:38:55 <seanb> ...suggesting that two people participaring in RDFa telecons 
16:39:17 <seanb> ...Steven Pemberton and Mark Birbeck and Ileas Tores (sp?) 
16:39:30 <TomB> s/Ileas Tores/Elias Torres/
16:39:42 <seanb> ...should participate here. Ileas keen. Mark willing and Steven could
16:39:49 <seanb> ...join as W3 staff if he wanted to
16:39:53 <seanb> Guus: Concerns
16:40:17 <seanb> ...1) this work needs to be more in focus if we are to take responsibility. We (WG) have to decide on it
16:40:37 <seanb> ...either discussions moved to SWD list, or we need more intense summaries. Guus prefers
16:40:41 <seanb> ... former solution
16:40:56 <seanb> ...2) Problems with HTML charter. Don't want to lose commitment from HTMl community to
16:40:58 <seanb> ...work on this.
16:41:06 <TomB> q-
16:41:23 <seanb> Ralph: Agree. Expectation is that two WG chartered for HTML
16:41:38 <seanb> ...1) Traditional "tag soup" HTML
16:41:41 <seanb> ...2) XHTML
16:41:59 <seanb> ...There will be joint work that matches the work of SWD
16:42:29 <seanb> ...Proposal for XHTML is to call it XHTML2 WG, but schedule will include XHTML1.1 RDFa module.
16:42:36 <seanb> ...that fits with SWDs.
16:42:53 <seanb> Guus: Still operating under old task force regime
16:43:13 <seanb> Ben: Still operating under old mailing list. 
16:43:27 <seanb> ...Lots of thnking and private discussion going on. Not a lot on RDFa
16:43:54 <seanb> ...Might discourage HTML commnity if it's not seen as joint work
16:44:16 <seanb> Guus: Let's not endanger collaboration with HTML community.
16:44:23 <seanb> ...Make sure stuff is cced
16:44:49 <seanb> Ben: Can definitely do that. For now, let's cc everything and pare it down if it
16:44:54 <seanb> ...becomes too much
16:45:09 <seanb> Guus: Introduce tags into the mailing list. Propose RDFa tag 
16:45:19 <TomB> +1 using RDFa, SKOS, ALL
16:45:26 <seanb> ...and for SKOS, use SKOS tag. For things concerning everyone, use ALL
16:45:30 <aliman> you mean "[SKOS]" and "[RDFA]"???
16:45:36 <seanb> ...For now 3 tags
16:46:02 <seanb> "RDFa" or "RDFA"?
16:46:16 <seanb> Ben: Can we tag automaticall?
16:46:19 <guus> i suggest RDFa
16:46:20 <seanb> Ralph: No
16:46:50 <seanb> Ben: Request for more feedback and involvement
16:47:15 <seanb> Ben: Refocus on spec over next two weeks.
16:47:25 <seanb> ...USe case/requirements, will mail lisst and canvas feedback
16:47:33 <seanb> Guus: Recipes
16:47:55 <seanb> ...Document (incomplete) published. Aggressive scheudle to republish.
16:48:05 <seanb> ...Authorships for new version?
16:48:15 <Zakim> -Ben_Adida
16:48:29 <seanb> Alistair: Unlikely to have time to edit or be involved in this work. 
16:48:38 <seanb> ...Would like to be, but can't commit 
16:49:00 <seanb> ...Noone has yet come forward volunteering to edit
16:49:35 <seanb> ...A lot of people aren't aware of this work. Need to market and push
16:49:56 <seanb> ...this issue and the fact that we're doing this. Lots of effort has gone into this.
16:50:11 <seanb> ...People out there who might be able to add effort.
16:50:19 <seanb> Guus: Fora for publicising this?
16:50:34 <seanb> Alistair: Don't know
16:50:54 <seanb> Guus: Willing to send message pointing at original document and inviting people to
16:51:05 <seanb> ...join and participate in this.
16:51:17 <seanb> ...Semantic Web Interest Group?
16:52:28 <seanb> Alistair: OWLEd?
16:53:28 <seanb> ...Issues about import etc.
16:54:53 <aliman> q+ to mention IRW workshop
16:55:10 <seanb> ACTION: Guus to send email to SW Interest Group re Recipes
16:55:33 <seanb> Alistair: Also identity on the web at WWW
16:56:14 <seanb> Guus: Principes for managing RDF vocabularies
16:56:20 <seanb> ...No volunteers
16:56:32 <seanb> Jon: I'm working on that stuff, but don't have time to write on it
16:56:42 <aliman> q-
16:56:50 <seanb> ...someone in his group is doing change management/versioning.
16:57:02 <seanb> ...High interest, but no time. If there's someone who'd like to collaborate, would
16:57:04 <seanb> ...be interested
16:57:23 <dlrubin> dlrubin has left #swd
16:57:27 <seanb> Alistair: If vocabulary has change management/versioning in the use case, 
16:57:41 <seanb> ...do mention this. Change management will be key to SKOS. 
16:57:57 <seanb> ...Must have at least and awareness of what such models might be.
16:58:12 <seanb> ...Research is needed. 
16:58:29 <seanb> ...Models of SKOS management may well be different to those for e.g. DCMI terms
16:59:09 <seanb> Guus: We need more people to work on this
16:59:17 <seanb> ...Tom?
16:59:32 <seanb> Tom: Would like to input, but can't offer to edit it.
17:00:07 <seanb> ...Will think about where effort might come from. Cf. Guus's message to SW Interest
17:00:15 <seanb> Topic: AOB
17:00:27 <seanb> Guus: F2F set for 22/23 January
17:00:47 <seanb> ...Tom and Guus to work on agenda just before Christmas
17:00:55 <Zakim> -Daniel
17:01:30 <seanb> [adjourned]
17:02:14 <TomB> ACTION Tom: Consider call for participation for VM  on model of Guus's re: Recipes
17:02:15 <Zakim> -berrueta
17:02:52 <TomB> [PENDING] ACTION: Elisa to keep us posted as SKOS/iso 11179 
17:02:53 <TomB>    compatibility issue evolves [recorded in 
17:02:55 <TomB>    [36]http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-swd-minutes.html#action07] 
17:02:56 <TomB>    [recorded in 
17:02:58 <TomB>    http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html#action03]
17:02:59 <TomB> --continues
17:03:43 <RalphS> rrsagent, please draft minutes
17:03:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-minutes.html RalphS
17:04:46 <seanb> [PENDING] ACTION: Elisa to keep us posted as SKOS/iso 11179 compatibility issue evolves [recorded in [36]http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-swd-minutes.html#action07]
17:04:54 <seanb> --continues
17:05:09 <RalphS> rrsagent, please draft minutes
17:05:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-minutes.html RalphS
17:07:02 <TomB> Test  [PENDING] ACTION: Elisa to keep us posted as SKOS/iso 11179 
17:07:13 <TomB> test  [PENDING] ACTION: Elisa to keep us posted as SKOS/iso 11179 
17:07:14 <TomB>    compatibility issue evolves [recorded in 
17:07:16 <TomB>    [36]http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-swd-minutes.html#action07] 
17:07:17 <TomB>    [recorded in 
17:07:19 <TomB>    http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html#action03]
17:07:50 <Zakim> -Alistair
17:12:22 <Zakim> -Sean
17:22:51 <Zakim> -Antoine
17:23:10 <TomB> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/
17:26:50 <JonP> http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/HelpOnConfiguration/SurgeProtection
17:33:42 <TomB> 1164026695.72.21026
17:34:18 <Zakim> -Guus_Schreiber
17:36:48 <TomB> http://labix.org/editmoin
17:43:27 <Zakim> -Ralph
18:14:04 <seanb> seanb has left #swd
18:15:04 <RalphS> zakim, who's on the call?
18:15:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see Tom_Baker, JonP
18:15:42 <Zakim> -Tom_Baker
18:15:43 <Zakim> -JonP
18:15:44 <Zakim> SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended
18:15:45 <Zakim> Attendees were Tom_Baker, Ralph, Alistair, JonP, Guus_Schreiber, berrueta, Antoine, Sean, Ben_Adida, Daniel
18:16:16 <RalphS> zakim, list attendees
18:16:16 <Zakim> sorry, RalphS, I don't know what conference this is
18:16:23 <RalphS> rrsagent, bye
18:16:23 <RRSAgent> I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-actions.rdf :
18:16:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph to liaise with Sandro re Documentation tools [1]
18:16:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-irc#T16-10-35
18:16:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: all to respond to Alistair's proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-swd-minutes.html#action05] [2]
18:16:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-irc#T16-19-58
18:16:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Alistair work with the UCR editors to draft questions to invite the esw-thes mailing list to contribute to the use cases and requirements [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html#action10] [3]
18:16:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-irc#T16-20-30
18:16:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jon, Daniel, Antoine figure out their individual [4]
18:16:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-irc#T16-22-15
18:16:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jon, Daniel, Antoine figure out their individual [5]
18:16:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-irc#T16-22-15-3
18:16:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Antoine and other editors to write up format. Email to list describing format with an example.  [6]
18:16:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-irc#T16-27-50
18:16:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Guus to send email to SW Interest Group re Recipes [7]
18:16:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-irc#T16-55-10
18:16:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Tom to Consider call for participation for VM  on model of Guus's re: Recipes [8]
18:16:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-irc#T17-02-14