IRC log of swd on 2006-11-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:54:54 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #swd
15:54:54 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-irc
15:55:01 [RalphS]
Meeting: SWD WG
15:55:07 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #swd
15:55:13 [RalphS]
zakim, this will be swd
15:55:13 [Zakim]
ok, RalphS; I see SW_SWD()11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
15:55:22 [RalphS]
rrsagent, please make record public
15:55:30 [berrueta]
berrueta has joined #swd
15:55:45 [TomB]
TomB has joined #swd
15:55:56 [RalphS]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2006Nov/0045.html
15:56:12 [RalphS]
Previous: 2006-11-14 http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-swd-minutes.html
15:58:54 [Zakim]
SW_SWD()11:00AM has now started
15:59:04 [Zakim]
+Tom_Baker
15:59:07 [Zakim]
+Ralph
15:59:14 [Antoine]
Antoine has joined #swd
15:59:22 [aliman]
tomb, can I ask for an agenda item to clarify subscription and posting to swd mailing list for non-SWD members?
16:00:15 [JonP]
JonP has joined #swd
16:00:18 [Zakim]
+raphael
16:00:29 [Zakim]
+??P8
16:00:35 [seanb]
seanb has joined #swd
16:00:40 [RalphS]
zakim, ??p8 is Alistair
16:00:49 [Zakim]
+Alistair; got it
16:00:57 [Zakim]
+JonP
16:01:13 [Zakim]
+Guus_Schreiber
16:01:14 [Zakim]
+Jose
16:01:31 [berrueta]
Zakim, Jose is really me
16:01:31 [Zakim]
+berrueta; got it
16:01:38 [Zakim]
+??P15
16:01:47 [guus]
guus has joined #swd
16:01:47 [RalphS]
zakim, raphael is really Antoine
16:01:47 [Zakim]
+Antoine; got it
16:02:07 [guus]
zakim, who is here?
16:02:07 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Ralph, Tom_Baker, Antoine, Alistair, JonP, Guus_Schreiber, berrueta, ??P15
16:02:09 [Zakim]
On IRC I see guus, seanb, JonP, Antoine, TomB, berrueta, Zakim, RRSAgent, aliman, RalphS
16:02:18 [RalphS]
zakim, ??p15 is Sean
16:02:21 [Zakim]
+Sean; got it
16:03:00 [Zakim]
+Ben_Adida
16:03:41 [Zakim]
+??P3
16:03:47 [dlrubin]
dlrubin has joined #swd
16:03:59 [RalphS]
zakim, ??p3 is Daniel
16:03:59 [Zakim]
+Daniel; got it
16:05:12 [RalphS]
Chair: Guus
16:05:58 [RalphS]
Topic: Admin
16:06:15 [seanb]
scribenick: seanb
16:06:50 [guus]
zakim, who is here?
16:06:50 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Ralph, Tom_Baker, Antoine, Alistair, JonP, Guus_Schreiber, berrueta, Sean, Ben_Adida, Daniel
16:06:51 [aliman]
q+ to ask about subscribing and posting to SWD mailing list for non-SWD members
16:06:53 [Zakim]
On IRC I see dlrubin, guus, seanb, JonP, Antoine, TomB, berrueta, Zakim, RRSAgent, aliman, RalphS
16:07:15 [seanb]
roll call from zakim
16:07:26 [seanb]
Guus: Propose accept minutes
16:07:37 [seanb]
Accepted
16:07:45 [seanb]
Bernard: seconded
16:08:03 [seanb]
Regrets from Ralph next two weeks,
16:08:09 [seanb]
Regrets from Daniel next week
16:08:09 [RalphS]
RESOLVED: http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-swd-minutes.html accepted as minutes of 2006-11-14 telecon
16:08:25 [seanb]
Guus: wiki
16:08:37 [seanb]
Ralph: Action is done.
16:08:49 [seanb]
....may need to register users
16:08:53 [RalphS]
[DONE] ACTION: Ralph to find out more about the RIF Wiki tools [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-swd-minutes.html#action04]
16:09:02 [seanb]
...please try it out and let Ralph know
16:09:29 [seanb]
...Ralph will follow up after telecon
16:09:42 [seanb]
Guus: wiki makes it easier to contribute to home page
16:09:51 [RalphS]
Ralph: I apparently need to enable accounts for each WG member
16:10:13 [seanb]
Ralph: brief conversation with Sandro re document tools
16:10:35 [seanb]
ACTION: Ralph to liaise with Sandro re Documentation tools
16:10:55 [Zakim]
aliman, you wanted to ask about subscribing and posting to SWD mailing list for non-SWD members
16:11:11 [seanb]
Alistair: Clarification whether non-members can subscribe/post
16:11:25 [seanb]
... to swd mailing list. No link on the mailing list page
16:11:39 [seanb]
Ralph: Anyone can post. Subscriptions are more complex
16:11:57 [seanb]
...anyone can read the archive. Subscriptions happen when sign up to WG
16:12:03 [seanb]
...awkward to add others.
16:12:11 [seanb]
Alistair: why?
16:12:30 [seanb]
Ralph: No good procedural reason as everything's public. No objection if we were
16:12:48 [seanb]
...to allow non-members to subscribe. Needs manual step to approve.
16:13:15 [seanb]
Alistair: Mailed to esw-thes list regarding SKOS discussion on this list
16:13:29 [seanb]
...maybe less accessible.
16:13:46 [seanb]
Ralph: Happy to talk about this, but reluctant due to extra overhead.
16:14:04 [seanb]
Daniel: For those working on use cases
16:14:18 [seanb]
...how will that work. email goes back and forth with users.
16:14:34 [seanb]
...these are non-members
16:15:02 [seanb]
Alistair: Why not cc swd list?
16:15:16 [seanb]
Ralph: Replies will be ok as anyone can post to list.
16:15:23 [seanb]
...carefully use ccs
16:15:45 [seanb]
Guus: reply-all and it will all work :-)
16:16:51 [seanb]
Sean: Get two copies of lots of emails. Any way of stopping this?
16:17:49 [RalphS]
Ralph: I run a procmail rule that eliminates duplicates
16:18:05 [seanb]
Topic: SKOS Requirements
16:18:29 [seanb]
Guus: Actions
16:18:44 [seanb]
...all to respond to Alistairs proposal. Some traffic. Close?
16:18:57 [seanb]
Alistair: keep it open for another week. More feedback please
16:19:10 [seanb]
Guus: Alistari work with UCR editors.
16:19:24 [seanb]
Alistair: continued. Will draft email once a format is agreed
16:19:50 [seanb]
Guus: Daniel to send email about use case. Done
16:19:58 [RalphS]
ACTION: all to respond to Alistair's proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-swd-minutes.html#action05]
16:20:00 [RalphS]
CONTINUES
16:20:30 [RalphS]
ACTION: Alistair work with the UCR editors to draft questions to invite the esw-thes mailing list to contribute to the use cases and requirements [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html#action10]
16:20:33 [RalphS]
continues
16:20:50 [RalphS]
[DONE] ACTION: Daniel to send mail describing his use cases for SKOS draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/24-swd-minutes.html#action01]
16:21:12 [TomB]
RalphS, in my reading of the documentation, it would work to put "DONE" on a line by itself after the pasted action.
16:21:36 [RalphS]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
16:21:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-minutes.html RalphS
16:22:15 [seanb]
ACTION: Jon, Daniel, Antoine figure out their individual
16:22:15 [seanb]
roles as SKOS Requirements editors [recorded in
16:22:15 [seanb]
[37]http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html#action07]
16:22:15 [seanb]
ACTION: Jon, Daniel, Antoine figure out their individual
16:22:15 [seanb]
roles as SKOS Requirements editors [recorded in
16:22:16 [seanb]
[37]http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html#action07]
16:22:18 [seanb]
continued
16:22:33 [seanb]
Daniel: Tcon set up for December 4th
16:23:02 [seanb]
Antoine: Read the use case document. Descriptions that were there match what
16:23:19 [seanb]
...Alistair proposes. But proposal might lead to lonfger documents.
16:23:22 [RalphS]
(line breaks when pasting the actions from the agenda will require post-meeting editing cleanup, btw)
16:23:42 [seanb]
...2nd point, Link to part describing the functionality and vocabulary. Should functionality
16:24:01 [seanb]
...be built into the vocabulary?
16:24:22 [seanb]
Guus: Do you see consensus?
16:24:26 [seanb]
Antoine: No.
16:24:48 [seanb]
Guus: Based on what has been seen, propose a use case format to be used.
16:25:04 [seanb]
Alistair: In response, sent email recently suggesting that Antoine is right to put
16:25:15 [seanb]
...more emphasis on vocab. Divide into two sections
16:25:25 [seanb]
...1) Vocabulary. Extracts and description of stuff
16:25:37 [seanb]
...2) One or more applications of the vocabulary
16:25:50 [seanb]
...Distinction between fucntionality and application is good.
16:26:01 [seanb]
...Could also accept an application-only use case.
16:26:45 [seanb]
Guus: Need agreement on format. Propose that we agree in the manner
16:26:56 [seanb]
... AListair jsut summariesed, and move on.
16:27:08 [seanb]
...Antoine and editors take action on this.
16:27:14 [TomB]
+1
16:27:50 [seanb]
ACTION: Antoine and other editors to write up format. Email to list describing format with an example.
16:28:49 [seanb]
Guus: use cases from Daniel, Bernard and Alistair
16:28:57 [seanb]
Sean: also one from me
16:28:58 [TomB]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2006Oct/0044.html
16:29:07 [TomB]
-- Sean's usecase, posted by Antoine
16:29:19 [seanb]
Alistair: Hoping for more use cases from SKOS list.
16:29:35 [seanb]
...ought to have use cases for Dewey and UDC, AAT, MeSH etc.
16:30:11 [seanb]
...important to capture these vocabularies representing long history and experience
16:30:32 [seanb]
Ralph: Vocabs well respected in comunity. Also have recognition with the public
16:30:49 [TomB]
q+ to propose that the requirements editors put the growing list of links to usecases into a document (instead of tracking in the agenda) - maybe on the Wiki?
16:30:50 [seanb]
Guus: Timing. Message out to SKOS within a week. Allows time to prepare use case
16:30:54 [RalphS]
Ralph: Dewey in particular has name recognition, so nice to have that as a use case
16:30:59 [seanb]
...document for January meeting
16:31:19 [RalphS]
s/has name/has broad public name/
16:31:25 [seanb]
??: Number of links to use cases. Get them into a wiki
16:31:32 [seanb]
Guus: Use wiki to keep track of this
16:31:34 [RalphS]
s/??/Tom/
16:31:48 [seanb]
Antoine: Planned to use wiki during the requirements gathering.
16:32:07 [seanb]
Tom: Prefer wiki or cvs? If wiki, need to have access
16:32:48 [TomB]
yes, it was me
16:32:51 [seanb]
Guus: Good moment to start using the wiki
16:33:17 [seanb]
Topic: Other Deliverables
16:33:42 [seanb]
Guus: RDF in XHTML?
16:33:58 [seanb]
Ben: Little behind in RDFa work
16:34:25 [seanb]
...latest discussion re,. tbl on html/xhtml etc.
16:34:41 [seanb]
...how to make RDFa work in all these things
16:35:02 [seanb]
...apologies for delay. Planning for use case
16:35:11 [seanb]
...and requirements in the next couple of weeks.
16:35:40 [seanb]
Ralph: Tom and Ralph discussing how to keep SWD in touch with RDFa.
16:35:57 [seanb]
...separate RDFa telecons could do with some help/more work
16:36:18 [seanb]
Ben: Invitatino open to anyone whop wants to participate. Anyone interested in RDF
16:36:32 [seanb]
...and clickable web should keep an eye on this work.
16:37:00 [seanb]
...Ben needs to attend SWD telecons and will do so! More
16:37:17 [seanb]
...participate welcome. Interesting ideas to make RDFa work in existing browsers.
16:37:40 [seanb]
Guus: All people in RDFa work will be participants of SWD
16:38:02 [seanb]
Tom: RDFa is intended to be jointly owned by SWD and HTML Activity WG
16:38:17 [TomB]
s/Tom/Ralph/
16:38:37 [seanb]
...charters for HTML activity not yet out for approval.
16:38:55 [seanb]
...suggesting that two people participaring in RDFa telecons
16:39:17 [seanb]
...Steven Pemberton and Mark Birbeck and Ileas Tores (sp?)
16:39:30 [TomB]
s/Ileas Tores/Elias Torres/
16:39:42 [seanb]
...should participate here. Ileas keen. Mark willing and Steven could
16:39:49 [seanb]
...join as W3 staff if he wanted to
16:39:53 [seanb]
Guus: Concerns
16:40:17 [seanb]
...1) this work needs to be more in focus if we are to take responsibility. We (WG) have to decide on it
16:40:37 [seanb]
...either discussions moved to SWD list, or we need more intense summaries. Guus prefers
16:40:41 [seanb]
... former solution
16:40:56 [seanb]
...2) Problems with HTML charter. Don't want to lose commitment from HTMl community to
16:40:58 [seanb]
...work on this.
16:41:06 [TomB]
q-
16:41:23 [seanb]
Ralph: Agree. Expectation is that two WG chartered for HTML
16:41:38 [seanb]
...1) Traditional "tag soup" HTML
16:41:41 [seanb]
...2) XHTML
16:41:59 [seanb]
...There will be joint work that matches the work of SWD
16:42:29 [seanb]
...Proposal for XHTML is to call it XHTML2 WG, but schedule will include XHTML1.1 RDFa module.
16:42:36 [seanb]
...that fits with SWDs.
16:42:53 [seanb]
Guus: Still operating under old task force regime
16:43:13 [seanb]
Ben: Still operating under old mailing list.
16:43:27 [seanb]
...Lots of thnking and private discussion going on. Not a lot on RDFa
16:43:54 [seanb]
...Might discourage HTML commnity if it's not seen as joint work
16:44:16 [seanb]
Guus: Let's not endanger collaboration with HTML community.
16:44:23 [seanb]
...Make sure stuff is cced
16:44:49 [seanb]
Ben: Can definitely do that. For now, let's cc everything and pare it down if it
16:44:54 [seanb]
...becomes too much
16:45:09 [seanb]
Guus: Introduce tags into the mailing list. Propose RDFa tag
16:45:19 [TomB]
+1 using RDFa, SKOS, ALL
16:45:26 [seanb]
...and for SKOS, use SKOS tag. For things concerning everyone, use ALL
16:45:30 [aliman]
you mean "[SKOS]" and "[RDFA]"???
16:45:36 [seanb]
...For now 3 tags
16:46:02 [seanb]
"RDFa" or "RDFA"?
16:46:16 [seanb]
Ben: Can we tag automaticall?
16:46:19 [guus]
i suggest RDFa
16:46:20 [seanb]
Ralph: No
16:46:50 [seanb]
Ben: Request for more feedback and involvement
16:47:15 [seanb]
Ben: Refocus on spec over next two weeks.
16:47:25 [seanb]
...USe case/requirements, will mail lisst and canvas feedback
16:47:33 [seanb]
Guus: Recipes
16:47:55 [seanb]
...Document (incomplete) published. Aggressive scheudle to republish.
16:48:05 [seanb]
...Authorships for new version?
16:48:15 [Zakim]
-Ben_Adida
16:48:29 [seanb]
Alistair: Unlikely to have time to edit or be involved in this work.
16:48:38 [seanb]
...Would like to be, but can't commit
16:49:00 [seanb]
...Noone has yet come forward volunteering to edit
16:49:35 [seanb]
...A lot of people aren't aware of this work. Need to market and push
16:49:56 [seanb]
...this issue and the fact that we're doing this. Lots of effort has gone into this.
16:50:11 [seanb]
...People out there who might be able to add effort.
16:50:19 [seanb]
Guus: Fora for publicising this?
16:50:34 [seanb]
Alistair: Don't know
16:50:54 [seanb]
Guus: Willing to send message pointing at original document and inviting people to
16:51:05 [seanb]
...join and participate in this.
16:51:17 [seanb]
...Semantic Web Interest Group?
16:52:28 [seanb]
Alistair: OWLEd?
16:53:28 [seanb]
...Issues about import etc.
16:54:53 [aliman]
q+ to mention IRW workshop
16:55:10 [seanb]
ACTION: Guus to send email to SW Interest Group re Recipes
16:55:33 [seanb]
Alistair: Also identity on the web at WWW
16:56:14 [seanb]
Guus: Principes for managing RDF vocabularies
16:56:20 [seanb]
...No volunteers
16:56:32 [seanb]
Jon: I'm working on that stuff, but don't have time to write on it
16:56:42 [aliman]
q-
16:56:50 [seanb]
...someone in his group is doing change management/versioning.
16:57:02 [seanb]
...High interest, but no time. If there's someone who'd like to collaborate, would
16:57:04 [seanb]
...be interested
16:57:23 [dlrubin]
dlrubin has left #swd
16:57:27 [seanb]
Alistair: If vocabulary has change management/versioning in the use case,
16:57:41 [seanb]
...do mention this. Change management will be key to SKOS.
16:57:57 [seanb]
...Must have at least and awareness of what such models might be.
16:58:12 [seanb]
...Research is needed.
16:58:29 [seanb]
...Models of SKOS management may well be different to those for e.g. DCMI terms
16:59:09 [seanb]
Guus: We need more people to work on this
16:59:17 [seanb]
...Tom?
16:59:32 [seanb]
Tom: Would like to input, but can't offer to edit it.
17:00:07 [seanb]
...Will think about where effort might come from. Cf. Guus's message to SW Interest
17:00:15 [seanb]
Topic: AOB
17:00:27 [seanb]
Guus: F2F set for 22/23 January
17:00:47 [seanb]
...Tom and Guus to work on agenda just before Christmas
17:00:55 [Zakim]
-Daniel
17:01:30 [seanb]
[adjourned]
17:02:14 [TomB]
ACTION Tom: Consider call for participation for VM on model of Guus's re: Recipes
17:02:15 [Zakim]
-berrueta
17:02:52 [TomB]
[PENDING] ACTION: Elisa to keep us posted as SKOS/iso 11179
17:02:53 [TomB]
compatibility issue evolves [recorded in
17:02:55 [TomB]
[36]http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-swd-minutes.html#action07]
17:02:56 [TomB]
[recorded in
17:02:58 [TomB]
http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html#action03]
17:02:59 [TomB]
--continues
17:03:43 [RalphS]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
17:03:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-minutes.html RalphS
17:04:46 [seanb]
[PENDING] ACTION: Elisa to keep us posted as SKOS/iso 11179 compatibility issue evolves [recorded in [36]http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-swd-minutes.html#action07]
17:04:54 [seanb]
--continues
17:05:09 [RalphS]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
17:05:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-minutes.html RalphS
17:07:02 [TomB]
Test [PENDING] ACTION: Elisa to keep us posted as SKOS/iso 11179
17:07:13 [TomB]
test [PENDING] ACTION: Elisa to keep us posted as SKOS/iso 11179
17:07:14 [TomB]
compatibility issue evolves [recorded in
17:07:16 [TomB]
[36]http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-swd-minutes.html#action07]
17:07:17 [TomB]
[recorded in
17:07:19 [TomB]
http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html#action03]
17:07:50 [Zakim]
-Alistair
17:12:22 [Zakim]
-Sean
17:22:51 [Zakim]
-Antoine
17:23:10 [TomB]
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/
17:26:50 [JonP]
http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/HelpOnConfiguration/SurgeProtection
17:33:42 [TomB]
1164026695.72.21026
17:34:18 [Zakim]
-Guus_Schreiber
17:36:48 [TomB]
http://labix.org/editmoin
17:43:27 [Zakim]
-Ralph
18:14:04 [seanb]
seanb has left #swd
18:15:04 [RalphS]
zakim, who's on the call?
18:15:04 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Tom_Baker, JonP
18:15:42 [Zakim]
-Tom_Baker
18:15:43 [Zakim]
-JonP
18:15:44 [Zakim]
SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended
18:15:45 [Zakim]
Attendees were Tom_Baker, Ralph, Alistair, JonP, Guus_Schreiber, berrueta, Antoine, Sean, Ben_Adida, Daniel
18:16:16 [RalphS]
zakim, list attendees
18:16:16 [Zakim]
sorry, RalphS, I don't know what conference this is
18:16:23 [RalphS]
rrsagent, bye
18:16:23 [RRSAgent]
I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-actions.rdf :
18:16:23 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ralph to liaise with Sandro re Documentation tools [1]
18:16:23 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-irc#T16-10-35
18:16:23 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: all to respond to Alistair's proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-swd-minutes.html#action05] [2]
18:16:23 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-irc#T16-19-58
18:16:23 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Alistair work with the UCR editors to draft questions to invite the esw-thes mailing list to contribute to the use cases and requirements [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html#action10] [3]
18:16:23 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-irc#T16-20-30
18:16:23 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jon, Daniel, Antoine figure out their individual [4]
18:16:23 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-irc#T16-22-15
18:16:23 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jon, Daniel, Antoine figure out their individual [5]
18:16:23 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-irc#T16-22-15-3
18:16:23 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Antoine and other editors to write up format. Email to list describing format with an example. [6]
18:16:23 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-irc#T16-27-50
18:16:23 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Guus to send email to SW Interest Group re Recipes [7]
18:16:23 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-irc#T16-55-10
18:16:23 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Tom to Consider call for participation for VM on model of Guus's re: Recipes [8]
18:16:23 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-swd-irc#T17-02-14