IRC log of dawg on 2006-11-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:04:43 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:04:43 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-dawg-irc
14:04:47 [kendallclark]
zakim, this will be dawg
14:04:47 [Zakim]
ok, kendallclark; I see SW_DAWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 26 minutes
14:05:21 [kendallclark]
zakim, agenda+ convene, bootup(), etc
14:05:21 [Zakim]
agendum 1 added
14:05:29 [kendallclark]
zakim, agenda+ sparql algebra
14:05:29 [Zakim]
agendum 2 added
14:05:41 [kendallclark]
zakim, agenda+ LHS of OPTIONAL
14:05:41 [Zakim]
agendum 3 added
14:06:56 [AndyS]
LHS of optional should be shortish - overtaken by events (in item 1)
14:07:16 [kendallclark]
yeah, i thought that might be the case, but another agenda item can't hurt since we have so few :)
14:07:17 [AndyS]
s/item 1/item 2/- opps
14:07:48 [AndyS]
What about the comments list? BobMcG's msg is about requirements more than anything else.
14:08:10 [kendallclark]
ah, yeah, i forgot about that message... we do need to respond
14:08:24 [kendallclark]
zakim, agenda+ Bob McGregor's uber-post on comments list
14:08:24 [Zakim]
agendum 4 added
14:08:26 [kendallclark]
thx andy
14:09:57 [AndyS]
we can skip the personal bits :-|
14:10:45 [kendallclark]
yes, please :)
14:11:02 [SteveH]
has the telecon started?
14:11:32 [SteveH]
oh, no, just seen zakim
14:21:47 [kendallclark]
nice to see mark baker still has time to slander sparql protocol all over town :)
14:22:01 [kendallclark]
i will give him credit for one thing: he is doggedly persistent
14:22:56 [AndyS]
I thought the "use a different verb (PATCH)" amounted to defining an update language (over POST) -- except one is more deployable.
14:23:24 [kendallclark]
i don't like fundamentalists of any stripe
14:23:27 [kendallclark]
good point, andy
14:23:57 [LeeF]
LeeF has joined #dawg
14:29:50 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()9:30AM has now started
14:29:57 [Zakim]
+Keio
14:30:00 [Zakim]
+Kendall_Clark
14:30:18 [Zakim]
+??P5
14:30:20 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P5 is me
14:30:20 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
14:30:26 [kendallclark]
hmm, i don't see Elias, who offered to scribe this meeting
14:30:27 [ericP]
Zakim, keio is me
14:30:27 [Zakim]
+ericP; got it
14:30:42 [LeeF]
zakim, code?
14:30:42 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7333 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), LeeF
14:31:26 [EliasT]
EliasT has joined #dawg
14:31:26 [kendallclark]
zakim, who's on the phone?
14:31:26 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ericP, Kendall_Clark, AndyS
14:31:52 [kendallclark]
EliasT: you dialing in?
14:32:04 [EliasT]
yes
14:32:07 [kendallclark]
good :)
14:32:12 [kendallclark]
zakim, who's making noise?
14:32:26 [Zakim]
kendallclark, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Kendall_Clark (14%)
14:32:31 [LeeF]
zakim, why won't you answer the phone?
14:32:31 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, LeeF.
14:32:33 [AndyS]
just got quieter here
14:32:39 [Zakim]
-Kendall_Clark
14:32:41 [Zakim]
+Lee_Feigenbaum
14:32:45 [kendallclark]
i don't think it's me, but i'll redial
14:32:48 [LeeF]
zakim, Lee_Feigenbaum is me
14:32:49 [Zakim]
+LeeF; got it
14:32:53 [Zakim]
+Elias_Torres
14:32:59 [EliasT]
Zakim, Elias_Torres is me
14:32:59 [Zakim]
+EliasT; got it
14:32:59 [LeeF]
zakim, mute me
14:33:00 [Zakim]
LeeF should now be muted
14:33:02 [EliasT]
Zakim, mute me
14:33:02 [Zakim]
EliasT should now be muted
14:33:03 [Zakim]
+Kendall_Clark
14:33:07 [AndyS]
It's not you : its there , when yr not
14:33:11 [kendallclark]
ok
14:33:20 [kendallclark]
i think it might be eric
14:33:44 [kendallclark]
zakim, who's making noise
14:33:44 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who's making noise', kendallclark
14:33:51 [kendallclark]
zakim, who's making noise?
14:34:00 [AndyS]
some noise
14:34:02 [Zakim]
kendallclark, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ericP (28%), AndyS (45%)
14:34:09 [kendallclark]
zakim, mute ericP
14:34:09 [Zakim]
ericP should now be muted
14:34:15 [Zakim]
-AndyS
14:34:19 [EliasT]
Scribe: EliasT
14:34:23 [kendallclark]
zakim, unmute ericP
14:34:23 [Zakim]
ericP should no longer be muted
14:34:26 [EliasT]
Chair: kendallclark
14:34:32 [AndyS]
zakim, who is making noise?
14:34:42 [kendallclark]
it went away when i muted me
14:34:42 [Zakim]
AndyS, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ericP (73%), Kendall_Clark (30%)
14:34:46 [kendallclark]
sorry, when i m uted eric
14:35:05 [Zakim]
+??P5
14:35:06 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P5 is me
14:35:06 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
14:35:11 [EliasT]
Meeting: DAWG Weekly Meeting
14:35:33 [kendallclark]
zakim, agenda+ meeting schedule for December
14:35:33 [Zakim]
agendum 5 added
14:35:39 [kendallclark]
zakim, agenda?
14:35:39 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
14:35:40 [Zakim]
1. convene, bootup(), etc [from kendallclark]
14:35:41 [Zakim]
2. sparql algebra [from kendallclark]
14:35:42 [Zakim]
3. LHS of OPTIONAL [from kendallclark]
14:35:44 [Zakim]
4. Bob McGregor's uber-post on comments list [from kendallclark]
14:35:45 [Zakim]
5. meeting schedule for December [from kendallclark]
14:35:57 [kendallclark]
zakim, who's on the phone?
14:35:57 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ericP, LeeF (muted), EliasT (muted), Kendall_Clark, AndyS
14:36:00 [ericP]
was better with me muted?
14:36:38 [EliasT]
Regrets: JeenB
14:37:00 [EliasT]
Regrets+ FredZ
14:37:56 [kendallclark]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/att-0149/14-dawg-minutes.html
14:38:32 [kendallclark]
PROPOSED to approve those minutes as a record of the 14 Nov meetingh
14:38:43 [EliasT]
Second it.
14:39:18 [EliasT]
Next meeting - 28th Nov
14:39:21 [EliasT]
Next meeting -- 28th Nov
14:39:32 [ericP]
no!
14:39:33 [EliasT]
Next meeting -- 28th Nov -- Scribe = ericP
14:39:38 [ericP]
sorry, wrong day
14:39:47 [ericP]
AC meeting
14:39:55 [ericP]
right
14:40:33 [EliasT]
Next meeting -- 28th Nov -- Scribe = AndyS
14:40:48 [kendallclark]
zakim, take up agendum 5
14:40:48 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "meeting schedule for December" taken up [from kendallclark]
14:41:41 [AndyS]
Andy can make 5/12/19 Dec then 2/Jan/07
14:42:34 [EliasT]
and me..
14:42:35 [ericP]
XML2006 is Dec 5-7
14:43:16 [ericP]
that's on the 6th
14:44:01 [kendallclark]
zakim, take up agendum 2
14:44:01 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "sparql algebra" taken up [from kendallclark]
14:44:26 [kendallclark]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0150.html
14:44:41 [kendallclark]
SPARQL Algebra
14:44:43 [kendallclark]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/rq24-algebra.html
14:46:01 [kendallclark]
Andy reviews SPARQL Algebra
14:46:52 [kendallclark]
there's a kind of 'reduction' phase; turns groups into join combos
14:48:44 [kendallclark]
to come: stuff on manipulating solution sequences
14:49:08 [LeeF]
"where are the hooks for extending?"
14:51:37 [kendallclark]
+1 to that, Andy
14:52:18 [EliasT]
ericP: I suggest you use unicode and specific XSLT to replace specific chars with images.
14:53:02 [EliasT]
kendallclark: AndyS, will you add some fabric to connect the algebra with the prose?
14:53:32 [EliasT]
AndyS: I was thinking of a stand-alone section with the algebra in rq24. I wanted to keep the terse presentation.
14:54:49 [AndyS]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0140.html
14:54:52 [LeeF]
pluggable BGP solution generating?
14:54:55 [AndyS]
BGP matching
14:55:24 [LeeF]
+1 to pluggable at that level rather than pluggable parameters to E-entailment regimes
14:55:52 [EliasT]
ericP: Would it help to have a WG decision whether we'd support multiple rows???
14:56:22 [kendallclark]
i think i don't support pluggable at all at this point, but i won't squawk about it
14:57:02 [EliasT]
ericP: The reason for having bags/multiset is to support count/aggregate in the future.
14:57:16 [EliasT]
ericP: I'm fired up about it and so is FredZ.
14:57:34 [EliasT]
kendallclark: I think it's useful, so it's probably useful to have a decision.
14:58:00 [EliasT]
ericP: I wrote a test that expresses bags if we want to discuss.
14:58:14 [EliasT]
ACTION: ericP to bring up test on bags for next meeting.
14:58:38 [kendallclark]
zakim, agenda?
14:58:38 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
14:58:39 [Zakim]
1. convene, bootup(), etc [from kendallclark]
14:58:42 [Zakim]
2. sparql algebra [from kendallclark]
14:58:43 [Zakim]
3. LHS of OPTIONAL [from kendallclark]
14:58:44 [Zakim]
4. Bob McGregor's uber-post on comments list [from kendallclark]
14:58:45 [Zakim]
5. meeting schedule for December [from kendallclark]
14:59:04 [kendallclark]
zakim, take up agendum 4
14:59:04 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Bob McGregor's uber-post on comments list" taken up [from kendallclark]
14:59:12 [kendallclark]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2006Nov/0004.html
14:59:41 [ericP]
tests on bags: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#rdfsemantics-var-type-var and http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#rdfsemantics-bnode-type-var
15:01:19 [EliasT]
AndyS: I'm unsure of some of the claims regardng the WHERE clause. I'd like to see some more details on their language.
15:02:02 [EliasT]
kendallclark: Bob is asking for sub-select queries. If so, we'll reiterate the reasons from our UC&R.
15:03:18 [EliasT]
kendallclark: We should review with Bijan on the UNBOUND comment.
15:03:30 [EliasT]
kendallclark: Is anybody willing to draft a response to Bob?
15:03:46 [kendallclark]
sure, why not?
15:03:48 [EliasT]
ericP: I can take a first stab on a response and ask for more details on his email.
15:05:11 [ericP]
ACTION: ericP to seek clarification on http://www.w3.org/mod/20061110085518567.00000002912@bmacgregor1
15:05:37 [EliasT]
PROPOSED: adjourn
15:05:44 [EliasT]
AndyS seconds it.
15:05:49 [EliasT]
ADJOURNED
15:05:54 [EliasT]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:05:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-dawg-minutes.html EliasT
15:06:00 [LeeF]
happy thanksgiving, kendall.
15:06:05 [kendallclark]
you too Lee :)
15:06:10 [kendallclark]
and everyone else who celebrates it
15:06:16 [AndyS]
AndyS has left #dawg
15:06:20 [Zakim]
-Kendall_Clark
15:06:33 [AndyS]
AndyS has joined #dawg
15:07:24 [LeeF]
We could at least ask whether the reason for no-shows is due to the time of the telecon... it's been a while since we considered a new time-of-week
15:07:43 [AndyS]
Good point
15:08:03 [LeeF]
ack
15:08:12 [LeeF]
zakim, unmute me
15:08:12 [Zakim]
LeeF should no longer be muted
15:10:04 [kendallclark]
well, we considered it very recently, but didn't change :)
15:10:10 [kendallclark]
SimonR isn't showing because of time
15:10:13 [kendallclark]
FWIW
15:10:44 [LeeF]
kendallclark -- recent change was just 14:30 vs. 15:30 consideration though, right?
15:11:00 [EliasT]
ericP, could you make the minutes public?
15:11:00 [kendallclark]
no, yr right
15:11:33 [kendallclark]
the dwindling numbers do make life more difficult
15:11:47 [kendallclark]
i'm not sure changing the time/day would help, but it's worth a discussion
15:12:02 [ericP]
zakim, lake lots public
15:12:02 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'lake lots public', ericP
15:12:09 [LeeF]
i thought it also made a good... pretext... to ask people why they're not showing up and remind them of their responsibility to the group
15:12:11 [ericP]
i never get this right
15:12:20 [EliasT]
RRSAgent, make logs public
15:12:32 [ericP]
zakim, lake logs public
15:12:32 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'lake logs public', ericP
15:12:42 [ericP]
zakim, lake logs world-readable
15:12:42 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'lake logs world-readable', ericP
15:13:01 [LeeF]
RRSAgent, make logs world-access
15:13:09 [AndyS]
wine lake?
15:13:22 [ericP]
sweet
15:13:44 [AndyS]
Its late for him in Japan.
15:14:10 [EliasT]
Japan?
15:14:18 [LeeF]
AC mtg
15:14:20 [EliasT]
nice.
15:14:35 [EliasT]
me
15:14:41 [EliasT]
Zakim, unmute me
15:14:41 [Zakim]
EliasT should no longer be muted
15:15:25 [AndyS]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:15:25 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ericP, LeeF, EliasT, AndyS
15:19:41 [Zakim]
-LeeF
15:20:02 [Zakim]
-EliasT
15:20:07 [Zakim]
-ericP
15:20:09 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
15:20:10 [Zakim]
Attendees were Kendall_Clark, AndyS, ericP, LeeF, EliasT
15:20:34 [AndyS]
AndyS has left #dawg
16:00:19 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()9:30AM has now started
16:00:22 [patH]
patH has joined #dawg
16:00:31 [Zakim]
+PatH
16:00:33 [Zakim]
-PatH
16:00:37 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
16:00:41 [Zakim]
Attendees were PatH
16:01:17 [ericP]
heya pat, hour off
16:03:50 [LeeF]
LeeF has left #dawg
16:16:54 [patH]
patH has joined #dawg
16:17:15 [ericP]
"Fixing BGP matching" -- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0140
16:17:46 [ericP]
"Status of the SPARQL algebra" -- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0150
17:40:00 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #dawg