IRC log of ua on 2006-11-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:45:50 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
18:45:50 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-irc
18:46:02 [jallan]
zakim, this will be wai_u
18:46:02 [Zakim]
ok, jallan; I see WAI_UAWG()2:00PM scheduled to start in 14 minutes
18:46:59 [jallan]
title: UAWG Teleconference
18:47:16 [jallan]
scribe: Jan Richards
18:47:23 [jallan]
Chair: Jim Allan
18:48:07 [jallan]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2006OctDec/0022.html
18:58:31 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has now started
18:58:38 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
19:00:28 [JR]
JR has joined #ua
19:01:32 [Zakim]
+Jim_Allan
19:01:46 [parente]
parente has joined #ua
19:01:57 [jallan]
zakim, [IBM] is parente
19:01:58 [Zakim]
+parente; got it
19:03:25 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
19:03:57 [jallan]
zakim, [IPcaller] is JR
19:03:57 [Zakim]
+JR; got it
19:04:02 [JR]
Scribe: JR
19:05:53 [JR]
JA: UA needs to recharte by Dec 31
19:06:20 [JR]
JA: I am up to date on techniques table.
19:06:49 [JR]
JA: May need to turn this into an ssues list as reason to move towards uaag 1.1
19:07:40 [JR]
Topic: 9.7 Move content focus in reverse (P2)
19:07:57 [JR]
JA: JR and I went back and forth on this.
19:08:15 [JR]
JA: But just sent to JR so am now sending to the group
19:08:51 [JR]
JA: JR had suggested combining this with 9.3.
19:08:53 [JR]
PP: Sure
19:09:33 [JR]
JA: Agreed in email (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2006OctDec/0024.html)
19:10:04 [JR]
Action JA: Combine 9.7 into 9.3 - moving backwards will be a req
19:10:47 [JR]
JR's original email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2006OctDec/0023.html
19:10:58 [JR]
Topic: 9.8 Provide text search (P2)
19:12:46 [jallan]
JR: if in the source of an 'input' with place holder text the UA should be able to search this text
19:12:53 [JR]
JA: Doesn't think user entered words should be searchable - since it says rendered
19:13:01 [JR]
JR: Would like to see it addded
19:13:21 [JR]
JA: If author supplies it, user agent should find it
19:14:05 [JR]
PP: In Firefox 1.5 can't search in large text area - which is a bother in Wikis etc
19:14:33 [JR]
PP: Browser does know what's in there.
19:15:06 [JR]
JR: IE does this already
19:15:54 [JR]
JR: So for form controls we want to cover labels, default text content inside textboxes etc, and end-user text addded to textboxes etc.
19:16:06 [JR]
JA, PP: OK
19:16:23 [JR]
JA: Discussion of conditional content...
19:16:57 [JR]
JA: If images on, alt text is conditional so not searchable...
19:18:12 [JR]
JA: But if images not on (or in HPR or screen reader) ...then should be searchable
19:19:06 [JR]
PP: Seems strange that conditional is not searchable...
19:19:30 [JR]
Action JA: Add issue to issues doc concerning searching within conditional text
19:20:47 [JR]
JA: Some non screen reader users have prob if they are brought to image by search but don't see alt text
19:22:26 [JR]
PP: Has question about reverse search being in doing more of 9.8,
19:22:56 [JR]
JA: Almost all tools have reverse built in already
19:23:51 [JR]
JR: Maybe we add to req 2.
19:24:13 [JR]
JA: Or maybe we just remove "forward" and "backward"
19:25:10 [JR]
JR, PP: OK to remove both "forward" and "backward" (req 2 or 9.8)
19:25:25 [JR]
OF 9.8
19:26:51 [jallan]
Action: JA remove requirement 2 of 9.8. removing requirement for "forward" search implies that requiement 1 includes the current functionality of UAs to provide forward/backward search functionality
19:27:30 [JR]
Topic: 9.9 Allow structured navigation (P2)
19:28:38 [jallan]
JR: not 'allow' but 'provide' structured navigation
19:30:26 [JR]
JA: THis became a P2, because ua manufacturers were against P1.
19:30:46 [JR]
JR: Comment was how essential this was.
19:30:56 [JR]
PP: Has just come up in Firefox.
19:31:18 [JR]
PP: No consensus for how should this work.
19:31:41 [JR]
PP: Orca (Screen reader) just asked Firefox but declined.
19:32:21 [JR]
JA: When people shown screen reader features, people who don't need SR's also want them
19:32:54 [JR]
JA: Surprised no one has written an extension
19:33:38 [JR]
PP: Charles Chen has provided a structured navigation extension...but there are issues with folding in his code to the main code
19:35:01 [JR]
PP: Also tricky with Jaws because there are multiple modes (e.g. form mode). Most users might be confused.
19:35:44 [JR]
JA: So would move away from stateless browsing
19:36:28 [JR]
JA: Change "allow" to "provide"?
19:36:41 [JR]
Action JA: Change "allow" to "provide"
19:38:25 [jallan]
JR: there is a richness of functionality provided to all users with this checkpoint
19:38:45 [jallan]
JR: would like to see it be a P1
19:39:39 [JR]
JR: Actually I said if it was allow then why not P1...P2 works for provide.
19:40:08 [JR]
JR: ATAG has a similar section for Prompting (B.2.1) that breaks out techniques nicely with pics etc.
19:41:09 [JR]
PP: In Windows, Jaws grabs raw HTML and walks it.
19:41:34 [JR]
PP: In linux don't have that option so need ua to tell sr the element type etc.
19:41:53 [JR]
PP: THis is provided by the Linux API.
19:42:34 [JR]
PP: Although some limitation (eg. has HEADER, but not h1, h2, etc
19:42:54 [JR]
PP: Though there is a workaround since uas can define own pairs
19:43:52 [JR]
PP: someheat slow to do this element at a tim
19:43:59 [JR]
time
19:44:28 [JR]
JA: OK but still browser must supply roles to API for use by AT's
19:45:10 [jallan]
if browser does not give info to api, the api cannot pass information to the AT
19:45:18 [Zakim]
-JR
19:46:09 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
19:46:27 [JR]
zakim, [IPcaller] is JR
19:46:27 [Zakim]
+JR; got it
19:47:04 [jallan]
action: JA add technique stating that UA must provide object attributes (element name and roles, etc.) to the accessibiltiy api to enable structured navigation.
19:47:57 [JR]
PP: May have been left out of original uaag because can't do it with MSAA
19:48:57 [JR]
JA: Personally would like the browser to do more of this natively.
19:49:34 [JR]
</jim's rant> :)
19:49:48 [JR]
Topic: 9.10 Configure important elements (P3)
19:50:17 [JR]
JA: Seems like extension of 9.9
19:50:55 [JR]
JA: Less impressed with having tons of configuration settings
19:51:12 [JR]
JR: Maybe lots of power users on the original WG
19:52:45 [JR]
Action JA: Consider including this a technique for 9.9
19:54:01 [JR]
JA: Doing more "similar style" is not well defined.
19:54:18 [JR]
JR: Yeah "similar" always worries me.
19:54:32 [JR]
action JA: Remove Similar styles doing more item
19:55:29 [JR]
JA: Next meeting in 2wks
19:56:42 [Zakim]
-parente
19:56:47 [Zakim]
-Jim_Allan
19:56:50 [Zakim]
-JR
19:56:52 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has ended
19:56:53 [Zakim]
Attendees were Jim_Allan, parente, JR
19:57:05 [JR]
RRSAgent, make minutes
19:57:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-minutes.html JR
19:57:13 [JR]
RRSAgent, set logs public
19:57:20 [JR]
Zakim, bye
19:57:20 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
19:57:25 [JR]
RRSAgent, bye
19:57:25 [RRSAgent]
I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-actions.rdf :
19:57:25 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JA to Combine 9.7 into 9.3 - moving backwards will be a req [1]
19:57:25 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-irc#T19-10-04
19:57:25 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JA to Add issue to issues doc concerning searching within conditional text [2]
19:57:25 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-irc#T19-19-30
19:57:25 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JA remove requirement 2 of 9.8. removing requirement for "forward" search implies that requiement 1 includes the current functionality of UAs to provide forward/backward search functionality [3]
19:57:25 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-irc#T19-26-51
19:57:25 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JA to Change "allow" to "provide" [4]
19:57:25 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-irc#T19-36-41
19:57:25 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JA add technique stating that UA must provide object attributes (element name and roles, etc.) to the accessibiltiy api to enable structured navigation. [5]
19:57:25 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-irc#T19-47-04
19:57:25 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JA to Consider including this a technique for 9.9 [6]
19:57:25 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-irc#T19-52-45
19:57:25 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JA to Remove Similar styles doing more item [7]
19:57:25 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-irc#T19-54-32