IRC log of ua on 2006-11-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:45:50 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #ua

18:45:50 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-irc

18:46:02 [jallan]

zakim, this will be wai_u

18:46:02 [Zakim]

ok, jallan; I see WAI_UAWG()2:00PM scheduled to start in 14 minutes

18:46:59 [jallan]

title: UAWG Teleconference

18:47:16 [jallan]

scribe: Jan Richards

18:47:23 [jallan]

Chair: Jim Allan

18:48:07 [jallan]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2006OctDec/0022.html

18:58:31 [Zakim]

WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has now started

18:58:38 [Zakim]

+[IBM]

19:00:28 [JR]

JR has joined #ua

19:01:32 [Zakim]

+Jim_Allan

19:01:46 [parente]

parente has joined #ua

19:01:57 [jallan]

zakim, [IBM] is parente

19:01:58 [Zakim]

+parente; got it

19:03:25 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

19:03:57 [jallan]

zakim, [IPcaller] is JR

19:03:57 [Zakim]

+JR; got it

19:04:02 [JR]

Scribe: JR

19:05:53 [JR]

JA: UA needs to recharte by Dec 31

19:06:20 [JR]

JA: I am up to date on techniques table.

19:06:49 [JR]

JA: May need to turn this into an ssues list as reason to move towards uaag 1.1

19:07:40 [JR]

Topic: 9.7 Move content focus in reverse (P2)

19:07:57 [JR]

JA: JR and I went back and forth on this.

19:08:15 [JR]

JA: But just sent to JR so am now sending to the group

19:08:51 [JR]

JA: JR had suggested combining this with 9.3.

19:08:53 [JR]

PP: Sure

19:09:33 [JR]

JA: Agreed in email (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2006OctDec/0024.html)

19:10:04 [JR]

Action JA: Combine 9.7 into 9.3 - moving backwards will be a req

19:10:47 [JR]

JR's original email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2006OctDec/0023.html

19:10:58 [JR]

Topic: 9.8 Provide text search (P2)

19:12:46 [jallan]

JR: if in the source of an 'input' with place holder text the UA should be able to search this text

19:12:53 [JR]

JA: Doesn't think user entered words should be searchable - since it says rendered

19:13:01 [JR]

JR: Would like to see it addded

19:13:21 [JR]

JA: If author supplies it, user agent should find it

19:14:05 [JR]

PP: In Firefox 1.5 can't search in large text area - which is a bother in Wikis etc

19:14:33 [JR]

PP: Browser does know what's in there.

19:15:06 [JR]

JR: IE does this already

19:15:54 [JR]

JR: So for form controls we want to cover labels, default text content inside textboxes etc, and end-user text addded to textboxes etc.

19:16:06 [JR]

JA, PP: OK

19:16:23 [JR]

JA: Discussion of conditional content...

19:16:57 [JR]

JA: If images on, alt text is conditional so not searchable...

19:18:12 [JR]

JA: But if images not on (or in HPR or screen reader) ...then should be searchable

19:19:06 [JR]

PP: Seems strange that conditional is not searchable...

19:19:30 [JR]

Action JA: Add issue to issues doc concerning searching within conditional text

19:20:47 [JR]

JA: Some non screen reader users have prob if they are brought to image by search but don't see alt text

19:22:26 [JR]

PP: Has question about reverse search being in doing more of 9.8,

19:22:56 [JR]

JA: Almost all tools have reverse built in already

19:23:51 [JR]

JR: Maybe we add to req 2.

19:24:13 [JR]

JA: Or maybe we just remove "forward" and "backward"

19:25:10 [JR]

JR, PP: OK to remove both "forward" and "backward" (req 2 or 9.8)

19:25:25 [JR]

OF 9.8

19:26:51 [jallan]

Action: JA remove requirement 2 of 9.8. removing requirement for "forward" search implies that requiement 1 includes the current functionality of UAs to provide forward/backward search functionality

19:27:30 [JR]

Topic: 9.9 Allow structured navigation (P2)

19:28:38 [jallan]

JR: not 'allow' but 'provide' structured navigation

19:30:26 [JR]

JA: THis became a P2, because ua manufacturers were against P1.

19:30:46 [JR]

JR: Comment was how essential this was.

19:30:56 [JR]

PP: Has just come up in Firefox.

19:31:18 [JR]

PP: No consensus for how should this work.

19:31:41 [JR]

PP: Orca (Screen reader) just asked Firefox but declined.

19:32:21 [JR]

JA: When people shown screen reader features, people who don't need SR's also want them

19:32:54 [JR]

JA: Surprised no one has written an extension

19:33:38 [JR]

PP: Charles Chen has provided a structured navigation extension...but there are issues with folding in his code to the main code

19:35:01 [JR]

PP: Also tricky with Jaws because there are multiple modes (e.g. form mode). Most users might be confused.

19:35:44 [JR]

JA: So would move away from stateless browsing

19:36:28 [JR]

JA: Change "allow" to "provide"?

19:36:41 [JR]

Action JA: Change "allow" to "provide"

19:38:25 [jallan]

JR: there is a richness of functionality provided to all users with this checkpoint

19:38:45 [jallan]

JR: would like to see it be a P1

19:39:39 [JR]

JR: Actually I said if it was allow then why not P1...P2 works for provide.

19:40:08 [JR]

JR: ATAG has a similar section for Prompting (B.2.1) that breaks out techniques nicely with pics etc.

19:41:09 [JR]

PP: In Windows, Jaws grabs raw HTML and walks it.

19:41:34 [JR]

PP: In linux don't have that option so need ua to tell sr the element type etc.

19:41:53 [JR]

PP: THis is provided by the Linux API.

19:42:34 [JR]

PP: Although some limitation (eg. has HEADER, but not h1, h2, etc

19:42:54 [JR]

PP: Though there is a workaround since uas can define own pairs

19:43:52 [JR]

PP: someheat slow to do this element at a tim

19:43:59 [JR]

time

19:44:28 [JR]

JA: OK but still browser must supply roles to API for use by AT's

19:45:10 [jallan]

if browser does not give info to api, the api cannot pass information to the AT

19:45:18 [Zakim]

-JR

19:46:09 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

19:46:27 [JR]

zakim, [IPcaller] is JR

19:46:27 [Zakim]

+JR; got it

19:47:04 [jallan]

action: JA add technique stating that UA must provide object attributes (element name and roles, etc.) to the accessibiltiy api to enable structured navigation.

19:47:57 [JR]

PP: May have been left out of original uaag because can't do it with MSAA

19:48:57 [JR]

JA: Personally would like the browser to do more of this natively.

19:49:34 [JR]

</jim's rant> :)

19:49:48 [JR]

Topic: 9.10 Configure important elements (P3)

19:50:17 [JR]

JA: Seems like extension of 9.9

19:50:55 [JR]

JA: Less impressed with having tons of configuration settings

19:51:12 [JR]

JR: Maybe lots of power users on the original WG

19:52:45 [JR]

Action JA: Consider including this a technique for 9.9

19:54:01 [JR]

JA: Doing more "similar style" is not well defined.

19:54:18 [JR]

JR: Yeah "similar" always worries me.

19:54:32 [JR]

action JA: Remove Similar styles doing more item

19:55:29 [JR]

JA: Next meeting in 2wks

19:56:42 [Zakim]

-parente

19:56:47 [Zakim]

-Jim_Allan

19:56:50 [Zakim]

-JR

19:56:52 [Zakim]

WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has ended

19:56:53 [Zakim]

Attendees were Jim_Allan, parente, JR

19:57:05 [JR]

RRSAgent, make minutes

19:57:05 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-minutes.html JR

19:57:13 [JR]

RRSAgent, set logs public

19:57:20 [JR]

Zakim, bye

19:57:20 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #ua

19:57:25 [JR]

RRSAgent, bye

19:57:25 [RRSAgent]

I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-actions.rdf :

19:57:25 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JA to Combine 9.7 into 9.3 - moving backwards will be a req [1]

19:57:25 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-irc#T19-10-04

19:57:25 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JA to Add issue to issues doc concerning searching within conditional text [2]

19:57:25 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-irc#T19-19-30

19:57:25 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JA remove requirement 2 of 9.8. removing requirement for "forward" search implies that requiement 1 includes the current functionality of UAs to provide forward/backward search functionality [3]

19:57:25 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-irc#T19-26-51

19:57:25 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JA to Change "allow" to "provide" [4]

19:57:25 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-irc#T19-36-41

19:57:25 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JA add technique stating that UA must provide object attributes (element name and roles, etc.) to the accessibiltiy api to enable structured navigation. [5]

19:57:25 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-irc#T19-47-04

19:57:25 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JA to Consider including this a technique for 9.9 [6]

19:57:25 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-irc#T19-52-45

19:57:25 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JA to Remove Similar styles doing more item [7]

19:57:25 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-irc#T19-54-32