18:45:50 RRSAgent has joined #ua 18:45:50 logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-irc 18:46:02 zakim, this will be wai_u 18:46:02 ok, jallan; I see WAI_UAWG()2:00PM scheduled to start in 14 minutes 18:46:59 title: UAWG Teleconference 18:47:16 scribe: Jan Richards 18:47:23 Chair: Jim Allan 18:48:07 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2006OctDec/0022.html 18:58:31 WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has now started 18:58:38 +[IBM] 19:00:28 JR has joined #ua 19:01:32 +Jim_Allan 19:01:46 parente has joined #ua 19:01:57 zakim, [IBM] is parente 19:01:58 +parente; got it 19:03:25 +[IPcaller] 19:03:57 zakim, [IPcaller] is JR 19:03:57 +JR; got it 19:04:02 Scribe: JR 19:05:53 JA: UA needs to recharte by Dec 31 19:06:20 JA: I am up to date on techniques table. 19:06:49 JA: May need to turn this into an ssues list as reason to move towards uaag 1.1 19:07:40 Topic: 9.7 Move content focus in reverse (P2) 19:07:57 JA: JR and I went back and forth on this. 19:08:15 JA: But just sent to JR so am now sending to the group 19:08:51 JA: JR had suggested combining this with 9.3. 19:08:53 PP: Sure 19:09:33 JA: Agreed in email (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2006OctDec/0024.html) 19:10:04 Action JA: Combine 9.7 into 9.3 - moving backwards will be a req 19:10:47 JR's original email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2006OctDec/0023.html 19:10:58 Topic: 9.8 Provide text search (P2) 19:12:46 JR: if in the source of an 'input' with place holder text the UA should be able to search this text 19:12:53 JA: Doesn't think user entered words should be searchable - since it says rendered 19:13:01 JR: Would like to see it addded 19:13:21 JA: If author supplies it, user agent should find it 19:14:05 PP: In Firefox 1.5 can't search in large text area - which is a bother in Wikis etc 19:14:33 PP: Browser does know what's in there. 19:15:06 JR: IE does this already 19:15:54 JR: So for form controls we want to cover labels, default text content inside textboxes etc, and end-user text addded to textboxes etc. 19:16:06 JA, PP: OK 19:16:23 JA: Discussion of conditional content... 19:16:57 JA: If images on, alt text is conditional so not searchable... 19:18:12 JA: But if images not on (or in HPR or screen reader) ...then should be searchable 19:19:06 PP: Seems strange that conditional is not searchable... 19:19:30 Action JA: Add issue to issues doc concerning searching within conditional text 19:20:47 JA: Some non screen reader users have prob if they are brought to image by search but don't see alt text 19:22:26 PP: Has question about reverse search being in doing more of 9.8, 19:22:56 JA: Almost all tools have reverse built in already 19:23:51 JR: Maybe we add to req 2. 19:24:13 JA: Or maybe we just remove "forward" and "backward" 19:25:10 JR, PP: OK to remove both "forward" and "backward" (req 2 or 9.8) 19:25:25 OF 9.8 19:26:51 Action: JA remove requirement 2 of 9.8. removing requirement for "forward" search implies that requiement 1 includes the current functionality of UAs to provide forward/backward search functionality 19:27:30 Topic: 9.9 Allow structured navigation (P2) 19:28:38 JR: not 'allow' but 'provide' structured navigation 19:30:26 JA: THis became a P2, because ua manufacturers were against P1. 19:30:46 JR: Comment was how essential this was. 19:30:56 PP: Has just come up in Firefox. 19:31:18 PP: No consensus for how should this work. 19:31:41 PP: Orca (Screen reader) just asked Firefox but declined. 19:32:21 JA: When people shown screen reader features, people who don't need SR's also want them 19:32:54 JA: Surprised no one has written an extension 19:33:38 PP: Charles Chen has provided a structured navigation extension...but there are issues with folding in his code to the main code 19:35:01 PP: Also tricky with Jaws because there are multiple modes (e.g. form mode). Most users might be confused. 19:35:44 JA: So would move away from stateless browsing 19:36:28 JA: Change "allow" to "provide"? 19:36:41 Action JA: Change "allow" to "provide" 19:38:25 JR: there is a richness of functionality provided to all users with this checkpoint 19:38:45 JR: would like to see it be a P1 19:39:39 JR: Actually I said if it was allow then why not P1...P2 works for provide. 19:40:08 JR: ATAG has a similar section for Prompting (B.2.1) that breaks out techniques nicely with pics etc. 19:41:09 PP: In Windows, Jaws grabs raw HTML and walks it. 19:41:34 PP: In linux don't have that option so need ua to tell sr the element type etc. 19:41:53 PP: THis is provided by the Linux API. 19:42:34 PP: Although some limitation (eg. has HEADER, but not h1, h2, etc 19:42:54 PP: Though there is a workaround since uas can define own pairs 19:43:52 PP: someheat slow to do this element at a tim 19:43:59 time 19:44:28 JA: OK but still browser must supply roles to API for use by AT's 19:45:10 if browser does not give info to api, the api cannot pass information to the AT 19:45:18 -JR 19:46:09 +[IPcaller] 19:46:27 zakim, [IPcaller] is JR 19:46:27 +JR; got it 19:47:04 action: JA add technique stating that UA must provide object attributes (element name and roles, etc.) to the accessibiltiy api to enable structured navigation. 19:47:57 PP: May have been left out of original uaag because can't do it with MSAA 19:48:57 JA: Personally would like the browser to do more of this natively. 19:49:34 :) 19:49:48 Topic: 9.10 Configure important elements (P3) 19:50:17 JA: Seems like extension of 9.9 19:50:55 JA: Less impressed with having tons of configuration settings 19:51:12 JR: Maybe lots of power users on the original WG 19:52:45 Action JA: Consider including this a technique for 9.9 19:54:01 JA: Doing more "similar style" is not well defined. 19:54:18 JR: Yeah "similar" always worries me. 19:54:32 action JA: Remove Similar styles doing more item 19:55:29 JA: Next meeting in 2wks 19:56:42 -parente 19:56:47 -Jim_Allan 19:56:50 -JR 19:56:52 WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has ended 19:56:53 Attendees were Jim_Allan, parente, JR 19:57:05 RRSAgent, make minutes 19:57:05 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-minutes.html JR 19:57:13 RRSAgent, set logs public 19:57:20 Zakim, bye 19:57:20 Zakim has left #ua 19:57:25 RRSAgent, bye 19:57:25 I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-actions.rdf : 19:57:25 ACTION: JA to Combine 9.7 into 9.3 - moving backwards will be a req [1] 19:57:25 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-irc#T19-10-04 19:57:25 ACTION: JA to Add issue to issues doc concerning searching within conditional text [2] 19:57:25 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-irc#T19-19-30 19:57:25 ACTION: JA remove requirement 2 of 9.8. removing requirement for "forward" search implies that requiement 1 includes the current functionality of UAs to provide forward/backward search functionality [3] 19:57:25 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-irc#T19-26-51 19:57:25 ACTION: JA to Change "allow" to "provide" [4] 19:57:25 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-irc#T19-36-41 19:57:25 ACTION: JA add technique stating that UA must provide object attributes (element name and roles, etc.) to the accessibiltiy api to enable structured navigation. [5] 19:57:25 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-irc#T19-47-04 19:57:25 ACTION: JA to Consider including this a technique for 9.9 [6] 19:57:25 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-irc#T19-52-45 19:57:25 ACTION: JA to Remove Similar styles doing more item [7] 19:57:25 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/16-ua-irc#T19-54-32