12:54:48 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tsdtf
12:54:49 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-tsdtf-irc
12:54:56 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #tsdtf
12:55:08 <shadi> zakim, this will be tsdtf
12:55:08 <Zakim> ok, shadi; I see WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM scheduled to start in 35 minutes
12:55:18 <shadi> meeting: TSD TF
12:55:30 <shadi> chair: CarlosV, Christophe
12:56:02 <shadi> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2006Nov/0013.html
12:56:09 <shadi> scribe: Daniela
12:56:23 <shadi> agenda+ Updated usage document
12:56:35 <shadi> agenda+ CVS directory structure and first tests
13:16:27 <Christophe> Christophe has joined #tsdtf
13:22:24 <Daniela> Daniela has joined #tsdtf
13:25:18 <Zakim> WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has now started
13:25:25 <Zakim> +Daniela
13:29:59 <ChrisR> ChrisR has joined #tsdtf
13:31:08 <CarlosV> CarlosV has joined #tsdtf
13:32:30 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:32:43 <CarlosV> I might join a couple of minutes
13:32:52 <CarlosI> CarlosI has joined #tsdtf
13:33:12 <Zakim> +Shadi
13:33:20 <Zakim> +Christophe_Strobbe
13:33:42 <Christophe> Zakim, [IP is ChrisR
13:33:42 <Zakim> +ChrisR; got it
13:35:00 <shadi> regrets: Vangelis
13:37:53 <Zakim> +CarlosI
13:38:04 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 1
13:38:04 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Updated usage document" taken up [from shadi]
13:38:18 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tests/usingTCDL
13:38:27 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2006Nov/0002.html
13:38:59 <Zakim> +Johannes
13:39:13 <Daniela> CS: summarizes chages done in usage document
13:39:17 <shadi> zakim, Johannes is really CarlosV
13:39:17 <Zakim> +CarlosV; got it
13:41:05 <Daniela> SAZ: will update usage document according to changes in TCDL 2.0
13:42:43 <Daniela> SAZ: wasn't there a general agreement about adoption of HTTP Vocabulary and EARL location pointers?
13:42:50 <shadi> action: SAZ to add the elements that were recently added to TCDL 2.0 to the "usage document"
13:43:01 <Daniela> CS: currently working on last changes to be online later this week
13:43:08 <Zakim> +Cooper
13:43:17 <shadi> s/was't there general agreement/there was general agreement
13:43:30 <Michael_Cooper> Michael_Cooper has joined #tsdtf
13:44:21 <shadi> action: CS notify mailing list once TCDL 2.0 document is updated
13:45:33 <Daniela> SAZ: two more questions: first one about nesting of locations and techniques
13:45:51 <Daniela> CS: techniques are after location (original proposal has been kept)
13:46:05 <Daniela> SAZ: does this need further discussion?
13:46:10 <Daniela> CS: not from my side
13:47:46 <Daniela> CS: request came from error (techniques used at two locations)
13:49:00 <Daniela> action: everybody review this part about locations and techniques and make sure you agree
13:49:22 <Daniela> CI: could someone summarize the information in the mailing list?
13:49:25 <shadi> start of thread: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2006Oct/0024
13:50:09 <Daniela> SAZ: second question about usage document: naming convention
13:50:51 <Daniela> SAZ: naming convention works for metadata files pretty well, but when you start to name the content files, you could get problems if you want to reuse files
13:51:25 <Daniela> SAZ: one test could be useful for more than one success criteria
13:51:47 <Daniela> SAZ: how do we deal with that? copy?
13:53:46 <Zakim> + +1.202.638.aaaa
13:53:54 <Daniela> CS: some techniques are relevant to more than 1 SC
13:54:34 <shadi> zakim, aaaa is really Tim
13:54:35 <Zakim> +Tim; got it
13:55:23 <Daniela> SAZ: how are you dealing with this problem in the BenToWeb project?
13:55:38 <Daniela> CS: we copy them
13:57:13 <Daniela> SAZ: reusing creates a dependency, e.g. when you change the content for a certain reason you have to consider also the other success criteria that are attached to this test.
13:58:19 <Daniela> SAZ: naming conventions currently only reflects success criteria
13:58:34 <Daniela> SAZ: techniques are referred in metadata
13:59:17 <Daniela> SAZ: is it a resolution to do duplication rather than directly reusing it?
13:59:34 <Daniela> SAZ: any objections to duplication?
14:00:18 <Daniela> RESOLUTION: test files used for more than one success criteria will be duplicated
14:03:59 <CarlosV> '/WAI/ER/tests/metadata'
14:04:23 <CarlosV>  '/WAI/ER/tests/testfiles'
14:06:47 <Daniela> CV: there are subdirectories "metadata" and "testfiles" on first level in CVS which sould not be there
14:06:55 <Daniela> SAZ: will delete those folders
14:08:08 <Daniela> SAZ: any other questions or remarks on the usage document?
14:08:35 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tests/Overview
14:08:37 <Daniela> SAZ: also working on an overview page (link "test samples" on the left hand side)
14:09:24 <Daniela> SAZ: document should give an idea about the test samples repository
14:11:17 <Daniela> SAZ: process for test samples does not yet exist - task force has to set that up
14:13:29 <Daniela> SAZ: summarize: TCDL2.0 will use earl location pointers and http vocabulary, but that has not been in the document when I wrote usage document
14:13:43 <Daniela> SC: currently work on http vocabulary
14:13:49 <shadi> zakim, close agendum 1
14:13:49 <Zakim> agendum 1, Updated usage document, closed
14:13:50 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
14:13:51 <Zakim> 2. CVS directory structure and first tests [from shadi]
14:13:54 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 2
14:13:54 <Zakim> agendum 2. "CVS directory structure and first tests" taken up [from shadi]
14:14:50 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/tests/ctprocess
14:14:58 <Daniela> SAZ: have already talked about directory structure that before.
14:15:48 <Daniela> SAZ: regarding the process, the document linked above could be a good starting point
14:17:44 <Daniela> SAZ: have tests been developed according to this process?
14:18:04 <Daniela> CR: yes
14:19:12 <Daniela> MC: challenge was to get people to submit test samples
14:20:24 <Daniela> MC: the process is ok, the problem is getting stuff into it
14:20:53 <Daniela> SAZ: this task force is not a working group and has very specific goals - so this could be a benefit of this task force
14:21:13 <Daniela> SAZ: we have stuff available, what we need is the process
14:21:37 <Daniela> SAZ: what are the experiences from BenToWeb?
14:22:13 <Daniela> CV: BenToWeb is currently working on review process.
14:23:46 <Daniela> CV: there were heavy discussions about "test mode"
14:24:04 <Daniela> when author creates test sample, the status is "draft"
14:25:18 <Daniela> Then the first validator takes a look at the documents - any requests to the author to change, then "pending bugfix" - no requests, then "accepted by first validator"
14:25:37 <Daniela> Then we still have a second validator and end user test
14:26:21 <Daniela> ACTION: CV summarizes how process is done in BenToWeb
14:27:23 <Daniela> SAZ: the test samples cannot be more stable than WCAG 2.0 and corresponding techniques, any changes in techniques need to have another review round
14:27:40 <Daniela> CV: status of test case and status of WCAG 2.0 should be independent
14:28:38 <Daniela> SAZ: new version of techniques would need new version of test samples.
14:29:23 <Daniela> SAZ: this task force is not a decision making group within W3C process.
14:30:02 <Daniela> SAZ: have to take that into account in our process
14:31:34 <Daniela> SAZ: another aspect: how is a test sample assigned to somebody?
14:34:56 <Zakim> -Tim
14:35:01 <Zakim> -Cooper
14:35:02 <Zakim> -CarlosV
14:35:03 <ChrisR> ChrisR has left #tsdtf
14:35:04 <Zakim> -Shadi
14:35:05 <Zakim> -Christophe_Strobbe
14:35:07 <Zakim> -ChrisR
14:35:08 <Zakim> -CarlosI
14:35:10 <Zakim> -Daniela
14:35:11 <Zakim> WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has ended
14:35:12 <Zakim> Attendees were Daniela, [IPcaller], Shadi, Christophe_Strobbe, ChrisR, CarlosI, CarlosV, Cooper, +1.202.638.aaaa, Tim
14:35:32 <shadi> zakim, bye
14:35:32 <Zakim> Zakim has left #tsdtf
14:35:39 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
14:35:44 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
14:35:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-tsdtf-minutes.html shadi
14:35:45 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
14:35:49 <shadi> rrsagent, bye
14:35:49 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-tsdtf-actions.rdf :
14:35:49 <RRSAgent> ACTION: SAZ to add the elements that were recently added to TCDL 2.0 to the "usage document" [1]
14:35:49 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-tsdtf-irc#T13-42-50
14:35:49 <RRSAgent> ACTION: CS notify mailing list once TCDL 2.0 document is updated [2]
14:35:49 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-tsdtf-irc#T13-44-21
14:35:49 <RRSAgent> ACTION: everybody review this part about locations and techniques and make sure you agree [3]
14:35:49 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-tsdtf-irc#T13-49-00
14:35:49 <RRSAgent> ACTION: CV summarizes how process is done in BenToWeb [4]
14:35:49 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-tsdtf-irc#T14-26-21