14:18:57 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:18:57 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-irc
14:19:02 <kendallclark> zakim, this will be dawg
14:19:03 <Zakim> ok, kendallclark; I see WS_DBWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 41 minutes
14:19:11 <kendallclark> damn
14:19:29 <kendallclark> i think i have to tell it something special because of time change in the US :(
14:19:30 <LeeF> time change?
14:19:47 <LeeF> Sounds like a problem for ericP
14:20:03 <kendallclark> yeah
14:20:34 <kendallclark> zakim, what conferences?
14:20:34 <Zakim> I see WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM active
14:20:35 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are MM_InkML()9:00AM, GA_SVGWG()9:30AM, VB_VBPAG()9:00AM
14:20:49 <AndyS> 41 mins is 15:00Z which is neither old nor new - we aren't DBWG are we?
14:20:55 <kendallclark> No
14:21:10 <kendallclark> zakim, what conferences do you see?
14:21:10 <Zakim> I see WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM active
14:21:12 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are MM_InkML()9:00AM, GA_SVGWG()9:30AM, VB_VBPAG()9:00AM
14:21:20 <LeeF> zakim, do we exist?
14:21:20 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, LeeF.
14:21:36 <kendallclark> zakim, what conference is this?
14:21:36 <Zakim> this will be WS_DBWG()10:00AM conference code 3294, kendallclark
14:21:46 <kendallclark> -sigh-
14:21:49 <kendallclark> that ain't gonna work
14:21:56 <LeeF> zakim, reschedule DAWG to start in 9 minutes
14:21:56 <Zakim> I don't understand 'reschedule DAWG to start in 9 minutes', LeeF
14:23:03 <AndyS> zakim, work out the semantics and email Jorge please
14:23:03 <Zakim> I don't understand 'work out the semantics and email Jorge', AndyS
14:23:28 <kendallclark> zakim, leave
14:23:28 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dawg
14:23:36 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dawg
14:23:43 <kendallclark> zakim, what conferences?
14:23:43 <Zakim> I see WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM active
14:23:44 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are MM_InkML()9:00AM, GA_SVGWG()9:30AM, VB_VBPAG()9:00AM
14:23:53 <kendallclark> damn, it doesn't have a big window, does it
14:24:08 <kendallclark> zakim, help
14:24:08 <Zakim> Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help.
14:24:11 <Zakim> Some of the commands I know are:
14:24:12 <Zakim>  xxx is yyy       - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx
14:24:14 <Zakim>                     if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted
14:24:16 <Zakim>  xxx may be yyy   - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx
14:24:19 <Zakim>  I am xxx         - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx
14:24:21 <Zakim>  xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group
14:24:23 <Zakim>  xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx
14:24:26 <Zakim>  who's here?      - lists the participants on the phone
14:24:28 <Zakim>  who's muted?     - lists the participants who are muted
14:24:30 <Zakim>  mute xxx         - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#)
14:24:32 <Zakim>  unmute xxx       - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61#
14:24:35 <Zakim>  is xxx here?     - reports whether a party named like xxx is present
14:24:37 <Zakim>  list conferences - reports the active conferences
14:24:38 <Zakim>  this is xxx      - associates this channel with conference xxx
14:24:39 <Zakim>  excuse us        - disconnects from the irc channel
14:24:41 <Zakim> I last learned something new on $Date: 2006/10/31 15:13:15 $
14:26:00 <kendallclark> Ok, someone's trying to find the person to fix this...
14:26:02 <kendallclark> Sorry guys
14:26:20 <AndyS> NP
14:27:37 <kendallclark> is eric around?
14:28:14 <AndyS> Just msg'ed him
14:28:21 <LeeF> AndyS -- 
14:28:25 <LeeF> after my reservations yesterday on IRC
14:28:35 <LeeF> i thought more about the filter + optional problem
14:28:38 <LeeF> and agree that it is a problem
14:28:42 <LeeF> and i think that your approach to it
14:28:44 <AndyS> Eric is on the case.
14:28:46 <LeeF> while a bit mucky to formalize
14:28:56 <LeeF> is the correct approach
14:29:20 <LeeF> (i spent some time trying to come up with queries where you would *want* the strict-group-scope semantics, and convinced myself that such cases don't exist)
14:29:37 <AndyS> LeeF: see this AM's formalization - explicit muckiness! - on comments.  Whether it works or not remains to be seen but the idea might have some milage.
14:29:43 <LeeF> yes, i saw it :-)
14:29:54 <LeeF> it's along the lines of what we scribbled in IRC yesterday when SteveH was around
14:29:57 <AndyS> Did you come with any examples?
14:30:16 <LeeF> Examples? Bah humbug! I'm really a theory wanker at heart ;-p
14:30:20 <tlr> tlr has joined #dawg
14:30:24 <tlr> zakim, this will be team1
14:30:25 <Zakim> ok, tlr; I see Team_(d)14:30Z scheduled to start now
14:30:28 <tlr> zakim, code?
14:30:28 <Zakim> the conference code is 83261 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), tlr
14:30:30 <tlr> Here's your call
14:30:36 <LeeF> thanks, tlr!
14:30:43 <tlr> Note that it's a different code
14:31:10 <Zakim> Team_(d)14:30Z has now started
14:31:13 <ericP> before folks try this, let's see if ...
14:31:17 <Zakim> +[IBMCambridge]
14:31:18 <LeeF> oh whoops
14:31:18 <ericP> rats, too late
14:31:21 <LeeF> sorry :(
14:31:22 <ericP> np
14:31:33 <ericP> you can hang up with no consequence
14:31:40 <LeeF> should I?
14:31:43 <ericP> no, wait
14:31:45 <LeeF> hehe
14:31:50 <ericP> let's go with a known quantity
14:31:57 <Zakim> +??P7
14:32:01 <AndyS> zakim, ??P7 is me
14:32:01 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:32:02 <ericP> folks can ask i irc for the code
14:32:09 <tlr> zakim, code?
14:32:09 <Zakim> the conference code is 83261 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), tlr
14:32:21 <tlr> tlr has changed the topic to: code for today: 83261
14:32:58 <ericP> could try this:
14:33:03 <ericP> zakim, this is dawg
14:33:03 <Zakim> ericP, I see SW_DAWG()10:30AM in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be dawg".
14:33:13 <ericP> zakim, this will be dawg
14:33:14 <Zakim> ok, ericP; I see SW_DAWG()10:30AM scheduled to start in 57 minutes
14:33:36 <kendallclark> so are we using the new or the old code?
14:33:46 <tlr> zakim, code?
14:33:46 <Zakim> the conference code is 7333 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), tlr
14:33:47 <LeeF> new code
14:33:47 <ericP> no worky
14:33:55 <tlr> old code no worky?
14:34:00 <ericP> zakim, this is 83261
14:34:00 <Zakim> ok, ericP; that matches Team_(d)14:30Z
14:34:00 <LeeF> Andy and I are on ok
14:34:06 <LeeF> with 83261
14:34:08 <tlr> tlr has left #dawg
14:34:24 <ericP> yeah, just trying to see if i could avoid a new code for people not on irc
14:34:36 <Zakim> +Kendall_Clark
14:34:44 <AndyS> Meeting: RDF Data Access Working group (31 Oct 2006)
14:34:52 <AndyS> Chair: Kendall Clark
14:34:55 <Zakim> +??P1
14:35:01 <ericP> zakim, ??P1 is me
14:35:01 <Zakim> +ericP; got it
14:35:01 <AndyS> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0118.html
14:35:10 <AndyS> Scribe: Andy Seaborne
14:35:17 <AndyS> ScribeNick: AndyS
14:35:24 <AndyS> Regrets: Fred Zemke, Steve Harris
14:35:51 <kendallclark> zakim, agenda+ Convene, agenda comments, roll call, approve minutes, next meeting, recruit scribe
14:35:51 <Zakim> agendum 1 added
14:36:36 <kendallclark> tons of static when eric speaks
14:36:45 <kendallclark> zakim, agenda+ action items
14:36:45 <Zakim> agendum 2 added
14:36:57 <kendallclark> zakim, agenda+ semantics of sparql
14:36:57 <Zakim> agendum 3 added
14:37:15 <kendallclark> zakim, agenda+ filter scope & optionals
14:37:15 <Zakim> agendum 4 added
14:37:35 <kendallclark> zakim, agenda+ sparql optional + union treatment of subgraph matching
14:37:35 <Zakim> agendum 5 added
14:37:42 <kendallclark> zakim, agenda+ open world value tests
14:37:42 <Zakim> agendum 6 added
14:37:47 <kendallclark> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:37:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IBMCambridge], AndyS, Kendall_Clark, ericP
14:41:02 <kendallclark> speaking for UMD, I care vastly more about having the semantics look like they're starting to look *now* than I am about all the entailment stuff, which I still think we should just punt on.
14:43:14 <AndyS> { patterns, filters, patterns OPTIONAL { P } } =>{ { group(join patterns, filters) } OPTIONAL { P } } 
14:43:33 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/10/17-dawg-minutes minutes from 2 weeks ago
14:43:56 <LeeF> { P1 F1 OPTIONAL { P2 } P3 F2 }
14:44:07 <kendallclark> I propose we approve those minutes.
14:44:09 <kendallclark> Someone 2nd?
14:44:49 <kendallclark> 2nd'd, LeeF
14:45:01 <AndyS> 10 01{ ( ( join P1 where F1 ) LeftJoin/OPTIONAL { P2 } ) join P3 where F2 }
14:48:24 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:48:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IBMCambridge], AndyS, Kendall_Clark, ericP
14:48:40 <kendallclark> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/att-0103/24-dawg-minutes.html
14:48:44 <LeeF> zakim, ibmcambridge is me
14:48:44 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it
14:49:14 <kendallclark> APPROVED as true record of 17 Oct meeting
14:49:23 <AndyS> ACTION: PatH to draft replacement vanilla entailment section for WG consideration
14:49:30 <AndyS> CONTINUES
14:49:40 <AndyS> ACTION: KendallC to close formsOfDistinct issue 
14:49:42 <AndyS> CONTINUES
14:49:51 <AndyS> ACTION: PatH to review the proposed tests in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JulSep/0169 and say yay or nay
14:49:54 <AndyS> CONTINUES
14:50:05 <AndyS> ACTION: KendallC to remember that the wee, lost filter tests should be put to the question (re:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0099.html 
14:50:07 <AndyS> CONTINUES
14:50:13 <AndyS> ACTION: LeeF to throw said 3 approved tests into the approved bucket  
14:50:15 <AndyS> DONE
14:50:50 <SteveH> SteveH has joined #dawg
14:51:37 <AndyS> Next time: regrets: AndyS (ISWC)
14:51:44 <ericP> SteveH, we're using a different bridge, 83261
14:52:28 <AndyS> 14:30UTC
14:52:33 <RalphS> RalphS has joined #dawg
14:52:50 <RalphS> you guys want your regular telecon code back?
14:53:00 <kendallclark> doesn't matter for th is week
14:53:05 <kendallclark> but for next week, ykes, please
14:53:17 <kendallclark> DST screwed us (me) up...
14:53:37 <RalphS> DAWG is the only WG who doesn't shift their telecon time
14:53:57 <RalphS> (but that's an old discussion we don't need to repeat her)
14:54:22 <RalphS> we'll sort it out for next week
14:54:25 <RalphS> RalphS has left #dawg
14:55:04 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to reply to Patrick Shironoshita's email re: OPTIONAL and UNION
14:55:23 <AndyS> Also: there was a comments comment on test suite.  I can reply to that if people are happy
14:56:58 <AndyS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0068.html
14:58:31 <AndyS> ACTION: AndyS Reply based on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0068.html 
15:01:19 <Zakim> +(link)
15:01:46 <AndyS> Domain is done naturally by the algebra ; as are dups and union (Chilean cardinality) modulo BGP and the blank node mapping function
15:02:06 <kendallclark> thx
15:03:19 <ericP> ack me
15:04:46 <kendallclark> fwiw, +1 re: enough consensus
15:05:00 <LeeF> +20 re: enough consensus
15:06:43 <LeeF> kendallclark -- when you asked jeen last week if he wanted to keep on w/ test suite responsibilities, what did he answer?
15:06:52 <kendallclark> "yes, but i don't have time"
15:06:56 <kendallclark> the job is open IMO
15:07:05 <LeeF> thanks
15:08:07 <SteveH> I could probably re-assume test stuff, though my time is a bit patchy
15:08:20 <LeeF> seconded!
15:08:22 <LeeF> ;-)
15:08:42 <kendallclark> Yay!
15:08:47 <kendallclark> we accept, Steve :)
15:09:02 <SteveH> um, woo :-|
15:09:23 <SteveH> regrets for next week BTW, ISWC
15:09:46 <AndyS> Meeting next time at 14:30UTC on 7/Nov
15:09:56 <AndyS> Scribe next time: LeeF
15:09:58 <kendallclark> LeeF to scribe
15:10:04 <AndyS> ADJOURNED
15:10:12 <Zakim> -Kendall_Clark
15:10:27 <AndyS> rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:10:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-minutes.html AndyS
15:10:53 <ericP> Zakim, please make record public
15:10:53 <Zakim> I don't understand 'please make record public', ericP
15:11:15 <LeeF> RRSAgent, make logs world-access
15:11:23 <patH> patH has joined #dawg
15:11:31 <patH> Hi, sorry Im late.
15:11:45 <LeeF> patH, we're done for today
15:11:46 <AndyS> Pat - we had a mini-meeting
15:11:47 <LeeF> a lite meeting
15:12:45 <AndyS> rrsagent, please leave
15:12:45 <RRSAgent> I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-actions.rdf :
15:12:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: PatH to draft replacement vanilla entailment section for WG consideration [1]
15:12:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-irc#T14-49-23
15:12:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: KendallC to close formsOfDistinct issue  [2]
15:12:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-irc#T14-49-40
15:12:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: PatH to review the proposed tests in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JulSep/0169 and say yay or nay [3]
15:12:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-irc#T14-49-51
15:12:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: KendallC to remember that the wee, lost filter tests should be put to the question (re:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0099.html  [4]
15:12:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-irc#T14-50-05
15:12:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF to throw said 3 approved tests into the approved bucket   [5]
15:12:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-irc#T14-50-13
15:12:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF to reply to Patrick Shironoshita's email re: OPTIONAL and UNION [6]
15:12:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-irc#T14-55-04
15:12:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AndyS Reply based on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0068.html  [7]
15:12:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-irc#T14-58-31