IRC log of ua on 2006-10-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:32:41 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
17:52:04 [JR]
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17:53:27 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has now started
17:53:34 [Zakim]
17:53:56 [jallan]
meeting: UAWG conference call
17:54:08 [jallan]
chair: JAllan
17:54:17 [jallan]
scribe: JR
18:00:03 [Zakim]
18:02:20 [Zakim]
18:02:51 [cklaws]
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18:03:00 [jallan]
zakim, [IBM] is cklaws
18:03:00 [Zakim]
+cklaws; got it
18:11:45 [JR]
Topic: 9.2 Provide user interface focus (P1)
18:16:28 [JR]
CL: IBM sees UI as diff from content.
18:16:43 [JR]
CL: UI handled better by MSAA etc
18:17:32 [JR]
JR: (pre-CL comments) read from email (
18:17:45 [JR]
JR: Might we split like ATAG?
18:17:48 [JR]
JA: Like that
18:17:59 [JR]
CL: Also split content into static and dynamic
18:18:25 [JR]
CL: OS widget sets have solved many problems...
18:18:48 [JR]
CL: But firefox diff because it is created by XUL...not OS widgets
18:19:22 [JR]
JA: 7.1 covers a lot of this
18:20:56 [JR]
JA: UI focus does seem visual to me.
18:21:02 [JR]
JR: THat's also in 10.2
18:21:24 [JR]
JA: Should we be bold and assume 9.2 is done.
18:22:28 [JR]
JR: Maybe some things could be rolled together?
18:22:38 [JR]
HR: e.g. "Provide a user-controlled (content|user interface) focus"
18:22:43 [JR]
18:23:06 [JR]
CL: Should add that if creating a CUSTOM UI you still need to satisfy.
18:23:58 [jallan]
action: ja add technique about if creating a CUSTOM UI you still need to provied a user interface focus
18:24:19 [JR]
CL: Also we talked last week about AJAX etc widgets...
18:24:36 [JR]
JA: Might some of the UI be created with AJAX etc?
18:27:08 [JR]
JR: Maybe if UA stuff added to content in a larger wrapper.
18:27:15 [JR]
CL: Looked at that.
18:27:29 [jallan]
JR: could a UA crate UI panes to provide addtional funtionality (history list) that was created in AJAX
18:28:04 [JR]
JR: Maybe that would be considered content?
18:28:10 [jallan]
CL: its a lot of work and it is very slow.
18:28:14 [JR]
CL: Confusing since code may be on server.
18:29:37 [JR]
CL: That's what Google is doing - eg office apps as web pages that edit other docs
18:30:00 [jallan]
JR: go to a website, that provide a user interface to manipulate web content in novel ways, then this shell that renders in a client UA becomes a UA
18:30:27 [JR]
CL: ALl controls in Web page, not in browser
18:31:17 [JR]
JR: Is this USER AGENT content or CONTENT able to browse
18:31:38 [JR]
CL: COmplicated when widgets pulled into content from elsewhere
18:33:38 [JR]
CL: Complicates 9.2
18:33:51 [JR]
CL: Flash is also like this.
18:35:20 [JR]
CL: Flash player would have to implement MSAA
18:35:54 [JR]
CL: Content layer is developer who doesn't need to know C++ etc, instead uses markup, scripting etc
18:37:36 [JR]
JR: Had same plethora of tools in ATAG dev
18:38:20 [jallan]
CL: UA is conveying information about widgets, tools, and functionality, CONTENT is more about the actual information being conveyed
18:39:55 [JR]
CL: Long term gol to separate content from interaction from presentation
18:40:46 [JR]
JA: Interested in CL's "layers diagram".
18:40:50 [JR]
JR: Me too.
18:42:29 [JR]
CL: Even more complicated when browser runs in Java or Eclipse - they write to Eclipse - then Eclipse writes to platform.access API
18:43:39 [JR]
JA: So they have to trust Eclipse...
18:44:12 [JR]
CL: Eclipse has own widgets paired to lower native widgets with written in accessibility...
18:44:52 [JR]
CL: But custom widgets in eclipse requires the eclipse custom accessibility that then maps back to native platform
18:47:15 [JR]
CL: And when use standard widget keyboard access is built in - but Firefox doesn't understand DOJO widget - so accesskeys used
18:50:49 [Zakim]
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18:50:56 [Zakim]
18:50:58 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has ended
18:51:00 [Zakim]
Attendees were Jim_Allan, Jan_Richards, cklaws
18:51:01 [JR]
Ended early
18:51:20 [JR]
RRSAgent, make minutes
18:51:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate JR
19:02:54 [jallan]
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19:04:10 [JR]
RRSAgent, set logs public
19:04:15 [JR]
Zakim, bye
19:04:15 [Zakim]
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19:04:19 [JR]
RRSAgent, bye
19:04:19 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in :
19:04:19 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ja add technique about if creating a CUSTOM UI you still need to provied a user interface focus [1]
19:04:19 [RRSAgent]
recorded in