IRC log of grddl-wg on 2006-10-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:59:16 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #grddl-wg
14:59:16 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:59:33 [DanC]
DanC has changed the topic to: GRDDL WG telcon 11 Oct . scribe: ?VOLUNTEER_PLEASE
15:00:35 [Zakim]
SW_GRDDL()11:00AM has now started
15:00:43 [FabienGandon]
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15:00:47 [Zakim]
15:01:30 [Zakim]
15:02:12 [DanC]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is IanD
15:02:12 [Zakim]
+IanD; got it
15:03:33 [Zakim]
15:03:52 [Zakim]
15:04:01 [briansuda]
Zakin, [IPcaller] is briansuda
15:04:13 [briansuda]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is briansuda
15:04:14 [Zakim]
+briansuda; got it
15:09:21 [Zakim]
15:09:47 [DanC]
"Wednesday, October 11, 2006 at 15:00:00Wed 11:00 AM *Wed 4:00 PM *"
15:10:02 [DanC]
that's UTC / Boston / London
15:10:16 [HarryH]
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15:10:43 [DanC]
Zakim, take up item 1
15:10:43 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2006-10-11T11:00-0400" taken up
15:10:49 [HarryH]
Sorry running late...
15:10:57 [DanC]
regrets: Ben Adida,
15:11:39 [Zakim]
15:11:41 [DanC]
unknown: Rachel Yager, Chimezie Ogbuji, Danny Ayers
15:11:46 [HarryH]
+??P is HarryH
15:11:54 [HarryH]
Zakim, ??P5 is HarryH
15:11:54 [Zakim]
+HarryH; got it
15:11:57 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:11:57 [Zakim]
On the phone I see IanD, DanC, FabienGandon, briansuda, Murray_Maloney, HarryH
15:13:27 [iand]
Minutes from last meeting to be sent out again for review
15:14:07 [iand]
Murray: sent out introduction work, waiting for comments
15:14:42 [iand]
iand: haven't had time to read it thoroughly
15:15:14 [iand]
FabienGandon: what's process on editing?
15:15:41 [iand]
HarryH: editors version can be changed whenever
15:16:13 [iand]
danc: intro feels a bit long
15:17:18 [iand]
ACTION: iand to review Murray's suggested intro
15:17:39 [iand]
danc: hello world example needs thought
15:17:54 [HarryH]
15:19:42 [iand]
murray: needs rdf description of the stand in resource description section
15:20:24 [iand]
HarryH: might be nice to have same examples everywhere
15:20:42 [iand]
danc: readers may skip to examples
15:21:42 [iand]
HarryH: do we lose the point if we don't elaborate the examples?
15:22:35 [iand]
murray: if we put in 2 bits of code, e.g. 5-6 lines of markup making assertions about authors in fragments of different languages
15:22:51 [iand]
murray: docbook, link rel="author" etc
15:23:18 [iand]
danc: pick examples from real languages
15:23:47 [iand]
HarryH: what about linking to the examples in the primer?
15:24:06 [iand]
murray: not in intro - it should be self-contained
15:24:20 [iand]
danc: dave booth asking for full xml example, we'll get to it
15:25:07 [iand]
. ACTION: Danc to flesh out ways to express author information in different markups languages
15:25:12 [iand]
danc, is that ok?
15:25:27 [DanC]
15:25:39 [iand]
ACTION: Danc to flesh out ways to express author information in different markup languages
15:25:42 [DanC]
MM: 1.103 is current
15:25:51 [HarryH]
Zakim, next item
15:25:51 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Cross-Introduction" taken up
15:25:54 [DanC]
(I think the 2 actions in the agenda are done.)
15:25:58 [HarryH]
Zakim, next item
15:25:58 [Zakim]
agendum 2 was just opened, HarryH
15:26:02 [HarryH]
Zakim, next item
15:26:02 [Zakim]
agendum 2 was just opened, HarryH
15:26:31 [iand]
HarryH: chimezie expressed some concerns that 2 example were not flowing well enough
15:26:56 [iand]
HarryH: should we use real data or not?
15:27:24 [iand]
danc: there might be real hreview data, but they're usually not xhtml and don't have grddl markup
15:27:34 [iand]
danc: which means we have to copy, asking permission
15:27:56 [iand]
danc: is it fair to copy yahoo data but not other W3C members'?
15:28:15 [iand]
danc: would prefer to use real data
15:30:04 [iand]
Murray: shouldn't tidy up existing data
15:30:58 [iand]
HarryH: should we go back to reviews with manufactured data?
15:31:47 [iand]
murray: what about getting w3c staff to write reviews of restaurants in cambridge and get them posted?
15:31:53 [iand]
danc: i have hotel reviews
15:32:29 [iand]
HarryH: we need more than one reviewer for example to make sense
15:33:13 [iand]
danc: one hotel review is in edinburgh
15:33:47 [HarryH]
we could try to make reviews
15:33:51 [HarryH]
of hotels.
15:33:59 [iand]
danc: want to talk about xbrl
15:34:27 [iand]
danc: xbrl uses xml schema and taxonomies which are like rdf schemas
15:34:50 [iand]
danc: how much do we specify and how much do we evangelise?
15:35:46 [iand]
murray: are we a bit early? do you want to work on a transformation and put in primer?
15:36:01 [iand]
danc: yes I want to and we could be early
15:36:28 [iand]
danc: linkedin use hresume
15:36:40 [iand]
danc: might be easier than xbrl
15:39:12 [iand]
murray: i think dan ought to spend more time on section 4 of draft, less mathematics
15:39:33 [HarryH]
Zakim, next item
15:39:33 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Discussion of Primer Document" taken up
15:39:57 [HarryH]
Zakim, next item
15:39:57 [Zakim]
agendum 3 was just opened, HarryH
15:40:03 [HarryH]
Zakim, close this item
15:40:03 [Zakim]
agendum 3 closed
15:40:04 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:40:05 [Zakim]
4. GRDDL Spec: [from #issue-base-param]
15:40:06 [HarryH]
Zakim, next item
15:40:06 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "GRDDL Spec:" taken up [from #issue-base-param]
15:40:33 [DanC]
ack ian
15:41:03 [iand]
zakim, mute me
15:41:03 [Zakim]
IanD should now be muted
15:41:26 [iand]
danc: danny was going to look at test cases, ian too?
15:41:36 [iand]
iand: would like to be involved
15:41:41 [HarryH]
Zakim, next item
15:41:41 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "[#issue-output-formats] which output formats should GRDDL support?" taken up
15:42:21 [iand]
danc: don't close formats issue yet - ben adida and brian mcbride have some comments
15:46:32 [iand]
scribe notes some discussion on local policy vs intention of author
15:47:36 [HarryH]
Zakim, close item
15:47:36 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'close item', HarryH
15:47:40 [HarryH]
Zakim, close this item
15:47:40 [Zakim]
agendum 5 closed
15:47:41 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:47:42 [Zakim]
6. [#issue-mt-ns]
15:47:43 [HarryH]
Zakim, next item
15:47:43 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "[#issue-mt-ns]" taken up
15:48:38 [iand]
HarryH: when should we ship spec? wait for tests?
15:48:47 [iand]
danc: ready to go now
15:49:50 [Zakim]
15:50:38 [HarryH]
Brian's question about conneg and GRDDL
15:50:39 [HarryH]
15:50:59 [iand]
murray: example of language conneg. without accept header the server sends english version, but my browser asks for spanish version
15:51:26 [iand]
murray: grddl transformation will fetch from server and possibly get different language version
15:52:44 [iand]
murray: how to fix this for the non technical user?
15:53:42 [HarryH]
harry: GRDDL processors SHOULD support XSLT 1.0 and MAY support other
15:53:42 [HarryH]
transformation languages."
15:55:10 [HarryH]
GRDDL-aware agents SHOULD support XSLT 1.0 and MAY support other transformation languages
15:55:40 [iand]
murray: believe dan's position is that "processor" shouldn't be mentioned but that the document shoud simply define the grddl terms
15:56:49 [iand]
harry: what about putting this kind of language in primer?
15:57:05 [iand]
we already have the following in primer: "Generally, if the transformation can be fully expressed in XSLT 1.0 then it is preferable to use that format since all GRDDL processors should be capable of interpreting an XSLT 1.0 document."
15:57:38 [iand]
HarryH: add a test case too
15:57:41 [HarryH]
add another use-case that adds XMLProc?
15:57:43 [DanC]
spec says "The transformation link type refers to a transformation algorithm that should have a available representations in widely-supported formats. We expect most consumers to support XSLT version 1[XSLT1] for the foreseeable future, though XSLT2[XSLT2] deployment is increasing. "
15:58:23 [iand]
zakim, unmute me
15:58:23 [Zakim]
IanD should no longer be muted
15:58:50 [HarryH]
Xlinclude case
15:58:55 [HarryH]
Content negotation case
15:59:01 [iand]
zakim, mute me
15:59:01 [Zakim]
IanD should now be muted
15:59:10 [HarryH]
IanD: interested in content negotiation test case
15:59:32 [iand]
ACTION: iand to construct a content negotiation test case
15:59:50 [iand]
zakim, unmute me
15:59:50 [Zakim]
IanD should no longer be muted
16:02:54 [DanC]
agenda + quick grddl-comments audit
16:03:14 [iand]
scribe notes some discussion on grddl mechanism of passing document or infoset to transformation
16:03:21 [iand]
zakim, mute me
16:03:21 [Zakim]
IanD should now be muted
16:03:56 [iand]
zakim, unmute me
16:03:56 [Zakim]
IanD should no longer be muted
16:04:09 [iand]
danc: let's work through comments
16:04:14 [HarryH]
16:06:20 [HarryH]
ACTION: iand to address comments on primer
16:06:43 [HarryH]
ACTION DanC to handle Michael Hausenblas comments
16:07:16 [iand]
zakim, mute me
16:07:16 [Zakim]
IanD should now be muted
16:08:27 [iand]
zakim, unmute me
16:08:27 [Zakim]
IanD should no longer be muted
16:08:37 [HarryH]
ACTION: Murray (namespaces) to go over Section 4 of GRDDL Spec
16:08:50 [iand]
zakim, mute me
16:08:50 [Zakim]
IanD should now be muted
16:09:30 [iand]
harry: what the critical path now on the spec?
16:09:34 [HarryH]
Murray: Example in introduction and Namespaces Section in Critical Path
16:11:10 [iand]
zakim, unmute me
16:11:10 [Zakim]
IanD should no longer be muted
16:11:12 [HarryH]
Meeting adjourned!
16:13:14 [iand]
I wrote this last year:
16:13:17 [iand]
"Web 2.0 isnt the Semantic Web. Some might say its the semantic web (lower case) or that its a stepping stone to the Semantic Web. I dont hold either of those views. I believe that the Semantic Web is actually a part of Web 2.0 which is to say not only that Web 2.0 is more important than the Semantic Web but that Web 2.0 requires the Semantic Web"
16:14:09 [iand]
harryh, can you generate minutes?
16:14:41 [DanC]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:14:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate DanC
16:15:22 [Zakim]
16:16:13 [Zakim]
16:16:14 [Zakim]
16:16:20 [Zakim]
16:16:21 [Zakim]
16:16:23 [Zakim]
SW_GRDDL()11:00AM has ended
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Attendees were DanC, IanD, FabienGandon, briansuda, Murray_Maloney, HarryH
16:51:25 [HarryH]
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