IRC log of swd on 2006-10-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:56:58 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #swd
14:56:58 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:57:03 [RalphS]
Meeting: SemWeb Deployment WG
14:57:09 [RalphS]
zakim, who's on the call?
14:57:09 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Tom_Baker
14:57:33 [RalphS]
14:58:03 [Zakim]
14:59:12 [Zakim]
14:59:26 [Zakim]
14:59:54 [RalphS]
zakim, ??p17 is Sean_Bechhofer
14:59:54 [Zakim]
+Sean_Bechhofer; got it
15:00:34 [Zakim]
15:00:53 [berrueta]
berrueta has joined #swd
15:00:54 [Zakim]
+ +44.120.682.aaaa
15:01:05 [FabienGandon]
zakim, Stephane is FabienGandon
15:01:09 [Zakim]
+FabienGandon; got it
15:01:17 [RalphS]
zakim, aaaa is Bernard_Horan
15:01:21 [Zakim]
+Bernard_Horan; got it
15:01:23 [Zakim]
15:01:41 [FabienGandon]
zakim, who's on the call?
15:01:41 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Tom_Baker, Ralph, Sean_Bechhofer, FabienGandon, Bernard_Horan
15:01:48 [RalphS]
agenda+ Admin
15:01:58 [Zakim]
15:01:58 [RalphS]
agenda+ Review of Charter / Work Planning
15:02:11 [RalphS]
agenda+ WG Organization
15:03:10 [Zakim]
15:03:11 [RalphS]
zakim, ibm Daniel_Rubin
15:03:14 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'ibm Daniel_Rubin', RalphS
15:03:18 [RalphS]
zakim, ibm is really Daniel_Rubin
15:03:18 [Zakim]
+Daniel_Rubin; got it
15:03:40 [Zakim]
15:03:53 [berrueta]
Zakim, ??P50 is me
15:03:53 [Zakim]
+berrueta; got it
15:03:55 [Zakim]
15:03:58 [berrueta]
Zakim, mute me
15:03:58 [Zakim]
berrueta should now be muted
15:04:39 [RalphS]
Chair: Tom, Guus
15:04:54 [Antoine]
zakim, Guus_Schreiber.a may be Antoine
15:04:54 [Zakim]
+Antoine?; got it
15:06:22 [RalphS]
Regrets: Ben_Adida, Elisa_Kendall
15:06:32 [Zakim]
15:08:19 [Guus]
Guus has joined #swd
15:09:13 [RalphS]
-> WG home page
15:09:37 [RalphS]
zakim, take up agendum 1
15:09:37 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Admin" taken up [from RalphS]
15:09:58 [Zakim]
+ +31.20.598.aabb - is perhaps Antoine?
15:10:10 [RalphS]
zakim, aabb is really Antoine
15:10:10 [Zakim]
sorry, RalphS, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
15:10:12 [RalphS]
zakim, who's here?
15:10:12 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Tom_Baker, Ralph, Sean_Bechhofer, FabienGandon, Bernard_Horan, Daniel_Rubin, Guus_Schreiber, berrueta (muted), Antoine?
15:10:12 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Guus, berrueta, RRSAgent, TomB, seanb, Antoine, FabienGandon, Zakim, RalphS
15:10:37 [berrueta]
zakim, unmute me
15:10:38 [Zakim]
berrueta should no longer be muted
15:10:48 [Antoine]
zakim, +31.20.598.aabb is Antoine
15:10:48 [Zakim]
sorry, Antoine, I do not recognize a party named '+31.20.598.aabb'
15:11:31 [Antoine]
zakim, +31.20.598.aabb may be Antoine
15:11:31 [Zakim]
sorry, Antoine, I do not understand your question
15:12:26 [RalphS]
Guus: in "W3C speak", the term "member" means an organization and the term "participant" means individuals like you and me
15:12:36 [RalphS]
Topic: 1.3 Teleconferences
15:13:29 [RalphS]
Guus: Bernard has already expressed difficulties with this teleconference time
15:13:52 [RalphS]
... intention is that UTC time is not fixed; we will shift by an hour when the US changes its clock
15:14:03 [RalphS]
... this year both US and Europe change on 29 October
15:14:16 [RalphS]
... at present we have no Asian participants
15:14:26 [RalphS]
... W3C tradition is that scribe duties rotate around the WG
15:14:31 [RalphS]
... we scribe in irc
15:15:09 [RalphS]
... if you don't have an irc client, you can use a Web browser with the W3C cgi-irc interface; I've been using it successfully for several years
15:15:23 [RalphS]
Scribe: Ralph
15:16:35 [Bern]
Bern has joined #swd
15:18:13 [TomB]
I use ChatZilla - - as a plug-in for Mozilla
15:20:17 [RalphS]
Guus: this WG operates in the public view
15:20:50 [RalphS]
... so Member Access is not necessary for any WG materials, only for other protected things such as Coordination Group records
15:21:42 [RalphS]
Tom: I live in Berlin
15:22:40 [RalphS]
Ralph: I live an hour outside of Boston
15:23:19 [RalphS]
Sean: I live in Manchester, UK
15:23:48 [RalphS]
... participated in WebOnt
15:23:53 [RalphS]
... interested in delivery of SKOS
15:23:58 [RalphS]
... have a connection to KnowledgWeb
15:24:14 [RalphS]
-> Tom's introduction
15:24:18 [RalphS]
Fabien: I live in Cannes
15:24:26 [RalphS]
... am a member of INRIA
15:24:41 [RalphS]
... team has background in knowledge representation and knowledge management
15:24:46 [RalphS]
... also participate in the GRDDL WG
15:25:25 [RalphS]
Bernard: work for Sun Microsystems Labs and reside in the UK though I report to Sun in Burlington MA
15:25:35 [Guus]
zakim, who'sd talking
15:25:35 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who'sd talking', Guus
15:26:18 [RalphS]
Bernard: working on COSHE project with Sean in Manchester
15:26:45 [RalphS]
Daniel: work at Stanford Univ as part of Center for Biomedical Ontology
15:27:01 [RalphS]
... also participate in HCLSIG
15:27:42 [RalphS]
Diego: work in the Semantic Web project at CTIC in Spain
15:28:29 [RalphS]
Antoine: work at Vrije Universitat in Amsterdam and also on a national archives project
15:28:40 [RalphS]
Guus: I also work at Vrije Universitat
15:28:44 [Bern]
COHSE project --
15:28:52 [RalphS]
... was co-chair of WebOnt and SemWeb Best Practices WG
15:29:05 [RalphS]
-> Guus' introduction
15:29:32 [RalphS]
Guus: hope that there can be sharing between KnowledgeWeb and this WG
15:29:51 [RalphS]
Topic: 1.4 W3C Process
15:29:58 [RalphS]
Guus: We are a Recommendation-Track Working Group
15:30:15 [RalphS]
... we have a number of deliverables, one of which [SKOS] is already identified as a Recommendation
15:30:48 [RalphS]
... the Recommendation process requires the documents to move along a process from Working Draft to Last Call to testing via Candidate Recommendation
15:30:54 [Antoine]
isn't SKOS a working draft?
15:31:18 [RalphS]
... see -> Art of Consensus
15:31:33 [RalphS]
... SKOS is already a Working Draft, yes
15:31:51 [RalphS]
... to start a Recommendation track we like to have a document already available
15:32:19 [RalphS]
Tom: Alistair is traveling today after Dublin Core meeting, sends regrets
15:34:29 [RalphS]
Guus: we have 5 deliverables mentioned in the charter
15:34:39 [RalphS]
-> WG charter
15:34:56 [RalphS]
Guus: one of the 5 is explicitly expected to be a Recommendation
15:35:25 [RalphS]
... the other 4 we have the ability to decide whether the end state is a Note or a Recommendation
15:38:39 [TomB]
RalphS: As one is working on document, publishing for public consumption, expectation that Editors' Drafts are visible. When published, they show up on Reports page. If our intended goal is Note, not a Recommendation, we are encouraged not to call the documents "Working Drafts". We publish versions not in final form - generally important to inform community about level of stability of...
15:38:40 [TomB]
...documents (paragraphs about status). If we decide to go to Recommendation or to go to Note makes a difference in how we proceed.
15:39:07 [RalphS]
Ralph: there's some consideration about how we name interim versions of a published technical report if we're intending the end state to be Note or Recommendation
15:40:06 [RalphS]
Guus: the WG charter contains a schedule but it's up to the WG to fill in the details
15:41:00 [TomB]
Guus: Charter is there to give us clear scoping - changes can be proposed and are discussed in Semantic Web Coordination Group.
15:41:21 [RalphS]
Guus: as chairs, part of our responsibility is to determine whether a proposal is in or out of scope for our charter
15:43:05 [RalphS]
-> Antoine's introduction
15:43:16 [RalphS]
-> Sean's introduction
15:43:25 [RalphS]
move to next agendum
15:43:25 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Review of Charter / Work Planning" taken up [from RalphS]
15:43:40 [RalphS]
Guus: see -> deliverables
15:44:18 [RalphS]
... 5 deliverables mentioned: SKOS, ...
15:44:33 [RalphS]
... we have the most input on this deliverable
15:44:55 [RalphS]
... we need to draft a use cases and requirements document for SKOS
15:45:12 [RalphS]
... this UCR document will be the basis for judging whether the proposed SKOS Recommendation is complete
15:45:22 [RalphS]
... hope for use cases from Stanford and other groups
15:45:48 [RalphS]
Daniel: absolutely
15:46:05 [RalphS]
-> Diego's introduction
15:46:21 [TomB]
Alistair made a presentation on requirements for SKOS last week in Mexico
15:46:23 [RalphS]
Guus: I expect the WG to work on SKOS UCR for the rest of this year
15:46:25 [TomB]
15:46:48 [TomB]
15:46:53 [TomB]
15:47:33 [RalphS]
Guus: W3C Notes have a slightly lesser status; they give guidelines but are not necessarily standards
15:48:24 [TomB]
15:48:53 [RalphS]
Guus: second deliverable is a Note or Recommendation on best practices for publishing RDF and OWL ontologies
15:49:27 [RalphS]
Guus: third deliverable is guidelines for namespaces and versioning
15:49:56 [RalphS]
... we do not yet have a draft for this
15:50:18 [RalphS]
Ralph: there are some collected informal notes from the Best Practices WG though not a published document
15:50:47 [RalphS]
Guus: fourth deliverable is a document on using OWL for cross-application integration
15:50:57 [RalphS]
... Mike Uschold did some draft work on this
15:51:22 [RalphS]
... fifth deliverable is joint between SWD and the HTML WG on incorporating RDF into HTML documents
15:51:36 [RalphS]
... there are existing Working Drafts on this work as well
15:52:33 [RalphS]
Ralph: use cases and requirements for RDFa are important to do soon also
15:53:07 [RalphS]
Tom: see Alistair's presentation last week at DC2006 on SKOS requirements
15:53:45 [RalphS]
Guus: for next telecon, please take a look at Alistair's presentation
15:54:00 [RalphS]
... we'll talk about approach to gathering UCR documents next week
15:54:05 [TomB]
Guus: Next week, start with SKOS requirements - how to approach the task of getting together a use-case and requirements document.
15:54:18 [RalphS]
move to next agendum
15:54:19 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "WG Organization" taken up [from RalphS]
15:54:40 [RalphS]
Guus: we encourage all communication within the WG to go via the mailing list
15:55:02 [RalphS]
... if we decide to break up the work into subgroups we may decide on certain Subject tags
15:55:09 [RalphS]
... we discourage bilateral communication off-list
15:55:35 [RalphS]
... W3C tries to keep the process as open as possible; people outside the group should be able to see the discussion, the rationale, and so on
15:56:07 [RalphS]
... I would like to have input on any missing expertise within the WG
15:56:34 [RalphS]
... for example, to move SKOS to Recommendation we want to show there are tools that handle SKOS and we need to think about testing
15:57:05 [RalphS]
Daniel: what do you mean by "handle"; for example, you can bring SKOS into Protege
15:57:18 [RalphS]
Guus: in WebOnt we defined some features and test suites
15:57:37 [RalphS]
... for every feature we wanted two implementations
15:57:57 [RalphS]
... in SKOS I would assume that a successful implementation would read in SKOS and interpret it in the intended way
15:58:40 [RalphS]
... SKOS may be the first non-representational SemWeb language that the W3C is doing; it is more of a pattern
15:58:52 [RalphS]
... our test suite should be easily usable by tool developers
15:59:18 [RalphS]
... and help measure whether our specification fulfills the requirements we initially laid out
15:59:42 [RalphS]
... perhaps in a future telecon Sean can describe how this worked in WebOnt?
15:59:46 [RalphS]
Sean: sure
16:00:20 [TomB]
Guus: Normally, f2f meetings are for making key decisions, such as SKOS requirements.
16:00:23 [TomB]
16:00:29 [RalphS]
Guus: Tom and I will do some initial planning on face-to-face scheduling and venue
16:00:50 [RalphS]
... f2f usually are two days and try to take advantage of colocation with other events
16:01:20 [TomB]
RalphS: Next Technical Plenary - week where all WGs encouraged to meet - will be Nov 2007
16:01:42 [TomB]
...smaller version of that being arranged for Jan 2007 - week of Jan 22
16:01:58 [TomB]
...we could have space there. Will be at MIT. Smaller than Tech Plenary.
16:02:15 [TomB]
...If we want that space, need to say so very soon.
16:03:11 [TomB]
Jan 22+ would be inconvenient
16:03:16 [RalphS]
straw poll for January meeting
16:03:25 [RalphS]
Ralph: in favor of meeting that week
16:03:40 [RalphS]
Tom: neutral but inconvenient for me
16:03:49 [RalphS]
Sean: in favor but timing not great
16:04:06 [RalphS]
Fabien: I would be able to attend
16:04:10 [RalphS]
Bernard: fine for me
16:04:17 [RalphS]
Daniel: unsure
16:04:33 [RalphS]
Guus: not sure
16:04:37 [RalphS]
Diego: ok for me
16:05:01 [RalphS]
Antoine: unsure, depends on whether there is another meeting next to it
16:05:33 [TomB]
RalphS: will take an option in order to reserve the possibility
16:05:56 [RalphS]
ACTION: Ralph communicate to January meeting planners our desire to keep the option for f2f open for a couple more weeks
16:06:31 [RalphS]
next meeting: 17 Oct, 1500 UTC
16:06:35 [Zakim]
16:06:37 [RalphS]
16:06:37 [Zakim]
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16:06:40 [Zakim]
16:06:41 [Zakim]
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16:06:49 [Zakim]
16:07:02 [Zakim]
16:07:06 [Zakim]
SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended
16:07:07 [Zakim]
Attendees were Tom_Baker, Ralph, Guus_Schreiber, Sean_Bechhofer, +44.120.682.aaaa, FabienGandon, Bernard_Horan, Daniel_Rubin, berrueta, Antoine?, +31.20.598.aabb
16:07:35 [RalphS]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
16:07:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate RalphS
16:07:44 [RalphS]
rrsagent, make record public
16:07:47 [RalphS]
zakim, bye
16:07:47 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #swd
16:08:15 [RalphS]
rrsagent, bye
16:08:15 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in :
16:08:15 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ralph communicate to January meeting planners our desire to keep the option for f2f open for a couple more weeks [1]
16:08:15 [RRSAgent]
recorded in