See also: IRC log
<shawn> zaki, who is here?
<shawn> scribe: Alan, Jack
<shawn> scribenick: Alan
<shawn> zaki, who is here?
<Wayne> Hi everyone, I'm trying to get in, but the line is busy
<shawn> hi, wayne. have you tried getting an operator?
Judy: Does the document meet the requirements?
[No comments]
Judy: Problem with first and second slides.
Shawn: Navigation still pending many changes as detailed in changelog.
[No comment on content of slide 1]
Discuss the new slide 17 "Accessibility Support Example"
Doyle: Why say that CMS stores alt text?
Shawn: Stores text seperately and reuses it.
Doyle: Clarification needed.
Shawn: Can explain that it stores text in database.
<shawn> ACTION: changelog: to "Stores alt text for images" add "in a database" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/06-eo-minutes.html#action01]
Alan: Dialog box in image in page doesn't mention context.
Shadi: It just asks for confirmation.
<shawn> ACTION: changelog: to " [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/06-eo-minutes.html#action02]
<shawn> Accessibility Support Example
<shawn> ACTION: changelog: to "Accessibility Support Example" image, add something for "providing guidance on what wording to put for the alt text" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/06-eo-minutes.html#action03]
Sylvie: Add other examples, like assisitve technology
Jack: Say how important alt. text is.
<Harvey> Bullet 2: Split, ... and if not, New Bullet Provide input so know which image is referenced
Shadi: (Slide 17) be positive. If authoring tools help... people will do it.
Wayne: People who can't see iamges will miss the content.
<shawn> ACTION: changelog: to "Weak Components Cause Accessibility Barriers" last bullet change "and then their Web content is not accessible" to more specific, something like "people who don't get the images will miss the content conveyed in the images" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/06-eo-minutes.html#action04]
Shawn: Slide 6, Alt Text.
<Harvey> I find no mention of longdesc
Sylvie, Shawn: Add something to say what the problem is when alt text is not present
Essential 2
Essential to
<shawn> ACTION: changelog: to "Alt Text" slide add the idea that "people who don't get the images will miss the content conveyed in the images" perhaps with the wording "essential to" (starting out the bullet) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/06-eo-minutes.html#action05]
Wayne: It sounds strange to say that alt text is for people who cannot read.
<shawn> ACTION: changelog: to "Alt Text" slide consider clarifying "and people who cannot read" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/06-eo-minutes.html#action06]
Harvey: Document doesn't mention long description anywhere. It is an alternative.
Judy: That would complicate the message.
Harvey: For completeness.
Judy: Alt text is already a complicated subject.
Shawn: We're only using it as an example, not explaining text alternatives in a general way.
<shawn> ACTION: changelog: list for later: link to more info on alt text, e.g., in "Alt Text" slide, link to section in "Understanding WCAG 2.0" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/06-eo-minutes.html#action07]
Judy, Shawn: How to differentiate alt text examples from rest of each slide.
Shawn: Need to make examples stand out from rest.
Doyle: Prefer to use bold text.
Shawn: Is an examnple of how alt
text is used in the context described in the slide.
... Perhaps use a different title specific to each slide, like
"Browsers and alt text"
Judy: Question was how the ways
we differentiate alt text examples can make it easier to follow
the flow of ideas.
... Not about the role of alt text in different components.
Shawn: Like "[subject] and alt text".
<Harvey> Should user agent be mentioned in the introduction; as the means by which people access the web content?
<shawn> possible ACTION: changelog: change throughout "Alt text example:" perhaps "Browsers and alt text:" or just "Example: Alt text..."
<shawn> scribenick: jack
Harvey: Should user agent be mentioned earlier?
Shawn: Presents a possible solution.
<shawn> ACTION: changelog: change throughout "Alt text example:" to "Example:" bold [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/06-eo-minutes.html#action08]
Judy: Raises question about whether the phrase about screen readers read aloud the alt text is accurate.
Sylvie: Should we include other examples besides screen readers?
Wayne: Perhaps this is beyond the scope and we should keep this more basic.
<scribe> Scribe: Topic Title
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say Justin (or someone) suggested Quick Tutorial
<shawn> scribenick: Wayne
Jack: Prefers mini tutorial, because it emphasized quick use, but does not imply time controls
Shawn: Likes Quick... check language translatibility
Justin: Modifier is impprtant - would emphasize this is a sort version of something longer.
<shawn> Simple Tutorial
<judy> Self-paced Tutorial
<shawn> Basic Tutorial
Judy: Perhaps unmodified tutorial is best, because it could be applied to a many similar documents of varing complexity.
Doyle: Thinks qualifiers actually catorizing documents and it is not necessary to put it in the title.
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say concerned that just "tutorial" too scarey, also for many, many months we won't have *any* in-depth tutorials
Shaws: People would be scared away from tutorial alone, mini may encourage reading. It will be a long time before we have a list. [So, "mini tutorial" will encurage this document to be read now]
shadi: I prefer brief over simple and quick, because the first read may not be quick or simple.
<shawn> some options: Mini-Tutorial, Brief Tutorial, Quick Tutorial, Simple Tutorial, Tutorial (without qualifier), or not "tutorial" at all
<shawn> wayne...
Vote: Qualifier vs. no Qualifier - all yes and one strong yes (one happy to go with others)
<shawn> ACTION: changelog: change working title to ": A Brief Tutorial" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/06-eo-minutes.html#action09]
Choices: Mini, Brief, Quick, Simple
Judy: Reduced to Mini or Brief; will leave to author with email input.
<judy> jb suggests something like "when evaluation tools find missing alt text, they show the failure" or some such
Shawn: [Directs attention to role the slides describing use of alt-text by the components. Slides 7-12] Looks at the effectiveness of the images.
<shawn> ACTION: changelog: consider adding additional explanation to " Web accessibility evaluation tools need to check that alt text exists and help check that it is equivalent" to help explain the image, e.g., "for example, listing missing alt text"... or consider changing the image [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/06-eo-minutes.html#action10]
Judy: Extends the meeting three more minutes...
<shawn> Scribe: Alan, Jack, Wayne
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.127 of Date: 2005/08/16 15:12:03 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/Justin (someone) s/Justin (or someone) s/ Succeeded: s/wayne: qualifier/wayne.../ Succeeded: s/all yes and one strong yes/all yes and one strong yes (one happy to go with others)/ Succeeded: s/to help explain the image/to help explain the image, e.g., "for example, listing missing alt text"/ Found Scribe: Alan, Jack Found ScribeNick: Alan Found ScribeNick: jack Found Scribe: Topic Title Found ScribeNick: Wayne Found Scribe: Alan, Jack, Wayne Scribes: Alan, Jack, Topic Title, Alan, Jack, Wayne ScribeNicks: Alan, jack, Wayne Default Present: Bingham, Shawn, Doyle_Saylor, Judy, Jack, Shadi, Alan, Sylvie_Duchateau\Tanguy_Lohéac, Wayne_Dick, Justin, Justin_Thorp, Liam_McGee WARNING: Replacing previous Present list. (Old list: Harvey_Bingham, Shawn, Doyle_Saylor, Judy, Jack, Shadi, Alan, Sylvie, Wayne, Justin) Use 'Present+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list, such as: <dbooth> Present+ Bingham, Shawn, Doyle_Saylor, Judy, Jack, Shadi, Alan, Sylvie_Duchateau\Tanguy_Lohéac, Wayne_Dick, Justin, Justin_Thorp, Liam_McGee Present: Bingham Shawn Doyle_Saylor Judy Jack Shadi Alan Sylvie_Duchateau\Tanguy_Lohéac Wayne_Dick Justin Justin_Thorp Liam_McGee WARNING: Replacing previous Regrets list. (Old list: Sylvie) Use 'Regrets+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list, such as: <dbooth> Regrets+ Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2006OctDec/0007.html Got date from IRC log name: 6 Oct 2006 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2006/10/06-eo-minutes.html People with action items: adding additional alt change changelog consider example explanation for later link list text throughout title working WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]