IRC log of tsdtf on 2006-10-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:12:16 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #tsdtf
12:12:16 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-tsdtf-irc
12:12:21 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #tsdtf
12:12:29 [shadi]
zakim, this will be TSD TF
12:12:29 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, shadi
12:12:32 [shadi]
zakim, this will be TSD
12:12:32 [Zakim]
ok, shadi; I see WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM scheduled to start in 18 minutes
12:12:43 [shadi]
chair: Christophe
12:12:55 [shadi]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2006Oct/0000.html
12:13:10 [shadi]
agenda+ Continue discussion on TCDL
12:13:18 [shadi]
agenda+ Start of test production phase
12:13:53 [shadi]
regrets: CarlosV, CarlosI, Tim, Shane
12:21:08 [Christophe]
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12:26:40 [Daniela]
Daniela has joined #tsdtf
12:28:48 [Zakim]
WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has now started
12:28:56 [Zakim]
+ +43.732.246.8aaaa
12:29:46 [Zakim]
+Shadi
12:30:07 [shadi]
zakim, aaaa is really Daniela
12:30:07 [Zakim]
+Daniela; got it
12:30:12 [Zakim]
+Christophe_Strobbe
12:30:18 [Michael]
Michael has joined #tsdtf
12:30:49 [ChrisR]
ChrisR has joined #tsdtf
12:31:36 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
12:31:47 [Vangelis]
Vangelis has joined #tsdtf
12:32:02 [shadi]
zakim, ipcaller is really Chris
12:32:02 [Zakim]
+Chris; got it
12:33:16 [Zakim]
+Vangelis_Karkaletsis
12:34:02 [Zakim]
+Cooper
12:34:47 [shadi]
scribe: Michael
12:34:52 [shadi]
scribenick: Michael
12:35:02 [shadi]
zakim, take up agendum 1
12:35:02 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Continue discussion on TCDL" taken up [from shadi]
12:35:52 [Michael]
cs: decided last week to use BenToWeb extension model
12:36:10 [Michael]
... separate documents about TCDL in Task Force
12:36:26 [Michael]
... approved global structure of TCDL and formal messaging section
12:38:06 [Michael]
... change of dc:date to internal date, has some implications mentioned on list
12:38:56 [Michael]
saz: BenToWeb date different?
12:39:18 [Michael]
cs: <missed>
12:39:50 [Michael]
... TCDL 1.1 date has same type as dc:date in DC 2.0
12:40:11 [Michael]
saz: provided use XSI param
12:41:08 [Michael]
cs: restricts DC date, so need to define in schema and then refer to it in all instances
12:41:16 [Michael]
... same problem with dc:description
12:41:46 [Michael]
saz: is it a problem?
12:41:59 [Michael]
cs: just pointing it out so people don't wonder what xsi:type doing there
12:42:29 [shadi]
http://bentoweb.org/refs/TCDL2.0/
12:42:56 [Michael]
saz: document above is complete TCDL spec plus usage of task force
12:43:01 [Michael]
... but intention to separate them out?
12:43:03 [Michael]
cs: yes
12:43:15 [Michael]
saz: TCDL 2.0 will be standalone spec that can be used by others
12:43:21 [Michael]
... we'll describe how we use it for our context
12:43:44 [Michael]
... question about rddl file
12:44:05 [Michael]
cs: should point back to task force doc
12:45:53 [Michael]
cs: issue of technologies re baseine
12:45:59 [Michael]
s/baseine/baseline
12:46:23 [Michael]
... possible to add pointers to exclude specs from baseline
12:46:27 [Michael]
... is that an issue?
12:46:52 [shadi]
http://bentoweb.org/refs/TCDL2.0/#baselines
12:47:36 [Michael]
s/exclude specs/exclude parts of a spec
12:48:33 [Michael]
saz: looks pretty flexible
12:48:46 [Michael]
... may adjust how we use it depending on what WCAG does
12:48:49 [Michael]
q+
12:49:16 [shadi]
ack michael
12:50:01 [Michael]
mc: way to add features to a spec that aren't actually there? e.g. embed
12:50:10 [Michael]
cs: point to a private spec that adds it
12:50:57 [Michael]
mc: pointer clear that it's an extension spec?
12:51:02 [Michael]
cs: reference both
12:51:53 [Michael]
... can add example
12:52:24 [Michael]
saz: sounds good for now, we may need to return to this as WCAG evolves baseline
12:53:48 [Michael]
... notice in test element you use namespace, but use xlink in technicalSpec
12:53:57 [Michael]
cs: need to add attribute to technicalSpec?
12:54:04 [Michael]
saz: not now, but may need to come back to this
12:55:02 [Michael]
RESOLUTION: global structure and formal metadata sections of TCDL approved
12:55:48 [Michael]
RESOLUTION: technology section of TCDL approved
12:56:08 [shadi]
http://bentoweb.org/refs/TCDL2.0/#edef-testcase
12:56:37 [Michael]
cs: test case added dc:description with same xsi:type impact
12:57:17 [Michael]
make requiredTests optional?
12:57:25 [Michael]
saz: yes, should do that
12:57:47 [Michael]
... not clear on expertGuidance
12:58:11 [Michael]
cs: added recently for people who validate test cases
12:59:04 [Michael]
... optional so we can omit
12:59:30 [Michael]
saz: can imagine providing guidance, but should be in technique, not developed by task force
13:00:13 [Michael]
... if we need something to explain how test should be evaluated, should be taken to WCAG WG
13:01:55 [Michael]
mc: is this targeted to evaluators or to test case consumers?
13:02:15 [Michael]
saz: expertGuidance seems targeted to manual testers
13:02:29 [Michael]
... should be in the technique - test procedure or elsewhere
13:03:05 [Michael]
cs: expertGuidance specific to test case, while technique might be more general, that can be how we decide when it goes where
13:03:51 [Michael]
... e.g., information about testing hover changes on a link for color contrast, which too detailed to appear in technique
13:04:25 [Michael]
saz: example points to need for more test cases
13:04:38 [Michael]
... let's keep for now, but don't want it to turn into interpretation on techniques
13:04:47 [Michael]
cs: will add note to TCDL documentation
13:06:21 [Michael]
cs: suggested to use RDF for files element, but unsure how to do
13:07:20 [Michael]
saz: need ability to add request parameters
13:07:46 [Michael]
cs: can create HTTP headers with name-value pairs
13:11:40 [Michael]
ACTION: Christophe to discuss with Johannes using RDF for HTTP, determine if it's needed now, or what future compatibility we may need, and discuss on list
13:13:43 [Michael]
RESOLUTION: no objections to accepting testCase section with changes discussed in call and pending investigation into file section
13:14:13 [shadi]
http://bentoweb.org/refs/TCDL2.0/#edef-rules
13:15:04 [Michael]
cs: rules section, pointers to success criteria etc.
13:16:06 [Michael]
... adding new techniques was only open issue
13:16:12 [Michael]
... examples has one now
13:16:53 [Michael]
RESOLUTION: accept rules section
13:17:15 [Michael]
cs: namespaceMapping had no issues
13:17:32 [Michael]
RESOLUTION: accept namespaceMapping
13:18:21 [Michael]
cs: rulesets had no issues on list
13:18:52 [Michael]
... keep in mind rule sets are XML files, important not to drop exisitng rules, only add new ones as WCAG draft updated
13:18:57 [Christophe]
http://bentoweb.org/refs/TCDL2.0/#chapt-rulesets
13:20:39 [Michael]
cs: in order to keep validity with previously defined tests
13:21:01 [Michael]
RESOLUTION: accept rulesets section
13:21:29 [Michael]
cs: next up is to write the usage document
13:21:43 [Michael]
... have taken TCDL, removed what we're not using in task force
13:22:05 [Michael]
... but it duplicates a lot from TCDL, would like suggestions on making it shorter (unless we want a long one)
13:22:57 [Michael]
saz: it should be small, simple about required/optional/usage of elements
13:23:06 [Michael]
... don't need examples etc., that's already in the spec
13:23:35 [Michael]
ACTION: Christophe to post a revised usage document
13:24:02 [Michael]
saz: uisng EARL pointers in location?
13:24:23 [Michael]
cs: have added extension to allow usage from EARL namespace
13:25:40 [Michael]
saz: can add further elements from EARL namespace?
13:25:47 [Michael]
cs: current extension allows that
13:26:16 [Michael]
ACTION: Shadi to send example of how to use EARL pointers in TCDL
13:26:49 [Michael]
saz: we should use EARL as much as we can, and will probably want to generate EARL reports from test cases
13:28:39 [Michael]
cs: TCDL now pretty much finalized (pending a couple issues)
13:28:47 [Michael]
zakim, close this item
13:28:47 [Zakim]
agendum 1 closed
13:28:48 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
13:28:49 [Zakim]
2. Start of test production phase [from shadi]
13:29:50 [Zakim]
-Vangelis_Karkaletsis
13:29:52 [Zakim]
-Shadi
13:29:54 [Zakim]
-Chris
13:29:55 [ChrisR]
ChrisR has left #tsdtf
13:29:55 [Zakim]
-Daniela
13:29:56 [Zakim]
-Christophe_Strobbe
13:29:57 [Zakim]
-Cooper
13:29:58 [Zakim]
WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has ended
13:29:59 [Zakim]
Attendees were +43.732.246.8aaaa, Shadi, Daniela, Christophe_Strobbe, Chris, Vangelis_Karkaletsis, Cooper
13:30:18 [shadi]
zakim, bye
13:30:18 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #tsdtf
13:30:34 [shadi]
rrsagent, make logs world
13:30:49 [shadi]
rrsagent, make minutes
13:30:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-tsdtf-minutes.html shadi
13:30:51 [shadi]
rrsagent, make logs world
13:30:56 [shadi]
rrsagent, bye
13:30:56 [RRSAgent]
I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-tsdtf-actions.rdf :
13:30:56 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Christophe to discuss with Johannes using RDF for HTTP, determine if it's needed now, or what future compatibility we may need, and discuss on list [1]
13:30:56 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-tsdtf-irc#T13-11-40
13:30:56 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Christophe to post a revised usage document [2]
13:30:56 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-tsdtf-irc#T13-23-35
13:30:56 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Shadi to send example of how to use EARL pointers in TCDL [3]
13:30:56 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-tsdtf-irc#T13-26-16