IRC log of tsdtf on 2006-10-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:12:16 [RRSAgent]

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12:12:16 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-tsdtf-irc

12:12:21 [Zakim]

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12:12:29 [shadi]

zakim, this will be TSD TF

12:12:29 [Zakim]

I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, shadi

12:12:32 [shadi]

zakim, this will be TSD

12:12:32 [Zakim]

ok, shadi; I see WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM scheduled to start in 18 minutes

12:12:43 [shadi]

chair: Christophe

12:12:55 [shadi]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2006Oct/0000.html

12:13:10 [shadi]

agenda+ Continue discussion on TCDL

12:13:18 [shadi]

agenda+ Start of test production phase

12:13:53 [shadi]

regrets: CarlosV, CarlosI, Tim, Shane

12:21:08 [Christophe]

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12:26:40 [Daniela]

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12:28:48 [Zakim]

WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has now started

12:28:56 [Zakim]

+ +43.732.246.8aaaa

12:29:46 [Zakim]

+Shadi

12:30:07 [shadi]

zakim, aaaa is really Daniela

12:30:07 [Zakim]

+Daniela; got it

12:30:12 [Zakim]

+Christophe_Strobbe

12:30:18 [Michael]

Michael has joined #tsdtf

12:30:49 [ChrisR]

ChrisR has joined #tsdtf

12:31:36 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

12:31:47 [Vangelis]

Vangelis has joined #tsdtf

12:32:02 [shadi]

zakim, ipcaller is really Chris

12:32:02 [Zakim]

+Chris; got it

12:33:16 [Zakim]

+Vangelis_Karkaletsis

12:34:02 [Zakim]

+Cooper

12:34:47 [shadi]

scribe: Michael

12:34:52 [shadi]

scribenick: Michael

12:35:02 [shadi]

zakim, take up agendum 1

12:35:02 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Continue discussion on TCDL" taken up [from shadi]

12:35:52 [Michael]

cs: decided last week to use BenToWeb extension model

12:36:10 [Michael]

... separate documents about TCDL in Task Force

12:36:26 [Michael]

... approved global structure of TCDL and formal messaging section

12:38:06 [Michael]

... change of dc:date to internal date, has some implications mentioned on list

12:38:56 [Michael]

saz: BenToWeb date different?

12:39:18 [Michael]

cs: <missed>

12:39:50 [Michael]

... TCDL 1.1 date has same type as dc:date in DC 2.0

12:40:11 [Michael]

saz: provided use XSI param

12:41:08 [Michael]

cs: restricts DC date, so need to define in schema and then refer to it in all instances

12:41:16 [Michael]

... same problem with dc:description

12:41:46 [Michael]

saz: is it a problem?

12:41:59 [Michael]

cs: just pointing it out so people don't wonder what xsi:type doing there

12:42:29 [shadi]

http://bentoweb.org/refs/TCDL2.0/

12:42:56 [Michael]

saz: document above is complete TCDL spec plus usage of task force

12:43:01 [Michael]

... but intention to separate them out?

12:43:03 [Michael]

cs: yes

12:43:15 [Michael]

saz: TCDL 2.0 will be standalone spec that can be used by others

12:43:21 [Michael]

... we'll describe how we use it for our context

12:43:44 [Michael]

... question about rddl file

12:44:05 [Michael]

cs: should point back to task force doc

12:45:53 [Michael]

cs: issue of technologies re baseine

12:45:59 [Michael]

s/baseine/baseline

12:46:23 [Michael]

... possible to add pointers to exclude specs from baseline

12:46:27 [Michael]

... is that an issue?

12:46:52 [shadi]

http://bentoweb.org/refs/TCDL2.0/#baselines

12:47:36 [Michael]

s/exclude specs/exclude parts of a spec

12:48:33 [Michael]

saz: looks pretty flexible

12:48:46 [Michael]

... may adjust how we use it depending on what WCAG does

12:48:49 [Michael]

q+

12:49:16 [shadi]

ack michael

12:50:01 [Michael]

mc: way to add features to a spec that aren't actually there? e.g. embed

12:50:10 [Michael]

cs: point to a private spec that adds it

12:50:57 [Michael]

mc: pointer clear that it's an extension spec?

12:51:02 [Michael]

cs: reference both

12:51:53 [Michael]

... can add example

12:52:24 [Michael]

saz: sounds good for now, we may need to return to this as WCAG evolves baseline

12:53:48 [Michael]

... notice in test element you use namespace, but use xlink in technicalSpec

12:53:57 [Michael]

cs: need to add attribute to technicalSpec?

12:54:04 [Michael]

saz: not now, but may need to come back to this

12:55:02 [Michael]

RESOLUTION: global structure and formal metadata sections of TCDL approved

12:55:48 [Michael]

RESOLUTION: technology section of TCDL approved

12:56:08 [shadi]

http://bentoweb.org/refs/TCDL2.0/#edef-testcase

12:56:37 [Michael]

cs: test case added dc:description with same xsi:type impact

12:57:17 [Michael]

make requiredTests optional?

12:57:25 [Michael]

saz: yes, should do that

12:57:47 [Michael]

... not clear on expertGuidance

12:58:11 [Michael]

cs: added recently for people who validate test cases

12:59:04 [Michael]

... optional so we can omit

12:59:30 [Michael]

saz: can imagine providing guidance, but should be in technique, not developed by task force

13:00:13 [Michael]

... if we need something to explain how test should be evaluated, should be taken to WCAG WG

13:01:55 [Michael]

mc: is this targeted to evaluators or to test case consumers?

13:02:15 [Michael]

saz: expertGuidance seems targeted to manual testers

13:02:29 [Michael]

... should be in the technique - test procedure or elsewhere

13:03:05 [Michael]

cs: expertGuidance specific to test case, while technique might be more general, that can be how we decide when it goes where

13:03:51 [Michael]

... e.g., information about testing hover changes on a link for color contrast, which too detailed to appear in technique

13:04:25 [Michael]

saz: example points to need for more test cases

13:04:38 [Michael]

... let's keep for now, but don't want it to turn into interpretation on techniques

13:04:47 [Michael]

cs: will add note to TCDL documentation

13:06:21 [Michael]

cs: suggested to use RDF for files element, but unsure how to do

13:07:20 [Michael]

saz: need ability to add request parameters

13:07:46 [Michael]

cs: can create HTTP headers with name-value pairs

13:11:40 [Michael]

ACTION: Christophe to discuss with Johannes using RDF for HTTP, determine if it's needed now, or what future compatibility we may need, and discuss on list

13:13:43 [Michael]

RESOLUTION: no objections to accepting testCase section with changes discussed in call and pending investigation into file section

13:14:13 [shadi]

http://bentoweb.org/refs/TCDL2.0/#edef-rules

13:15:04 [Michael]

cs: rules section, pointers to success criteria etc.

13:16:06 [Michael]

... adding new techniques was only open issue

13:16:12 [Michael]

... examples has one now

13:16:53 [Michael]

RESOLUTION: accept rules section

13:17:15 [Michael]

cs: namespaceMapping had no issues

13:17:32 [Michael]

RESOLUTION: accept namespaceMapping

13:18:21 [Michael]

cs: rulesets had no issues on list

13:18:52 [Michael]

... keep in mind rule sets are XML files, important not to drop exisitng rules, only add new ones as WCAG draft updated

13:18:57 [Christophe]

http://bentoweb.org/refs/TCDL2.0/#chapt-rulesets

13:20:39 [Michael]

cs: in order to keep validity with previously defined tests

13:21:01 [Michael]

RESOLUTION: accept rulesets section

13:21:29 [Michael]

cs: next up is to write the usage document

13:21:43 [Michael]

... have taken TCDL, removed what we're not using in task force

13:22:05 [Michael]

... but it duplicates a lot from TCDL, would like suggestions on making it shorter (unless we want a long one)

13:22:57 [Michael]

saz: it should be small, simple about required/optional/usage of elements

13:23:06 [Michael]

... don't need examples etc., that's already in the spec

13:23:35 [Michael]

ACTION: Christophe to post a revised usage document

13:24:02 [Michael]

saz: uisng EARL pointers in location?

13:24:23 [Michael]

cs: have added extension to allow usage from EARL namespace

13:25:40 [Michael]

saz: can add further elements from EARL namespace?

13:25:47 [Michael]

cs: current extension allows that

13:26:16 [Michael]

ACTION: Shadi to send example of how to use EARL pointers in TCDL

13:26:49 [Michael]

saz: we should use EARL as much as we can, and will probably want to generate EARL reports from test cases

13:28:39 [Michael]

cs: TCDL now pretty much finalized (pending a couple issues)

13:28:47 [Michael]

zakim, close this item

13:28:47 [Zakim]

agendum 1 closed

13:28:48 [Zakim]

I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:

13:28:49 [Zakim]

2. Start of test production phase [from shadi]

13:29:50 [Zakim]

-Vangelis_Karkaletsis

13:29:52 [Zakim]

-Shadi

13:29:54 [Zakim]

-Chris

13:29:55 [ChrisR]

ChrisR has left #tsdtf

13:29:55 [Zakim]

-Daniela

13:29:56 [Zakim]

-Christophe_Strobbe

13:29:57 [Zakim]

-Cooper

13:29:58 [Zakim]

WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has ended

13:29:59 [Zakim]

Attendees were +43.732.246.8aaaa, Shadi, Daniela, Christophe_Strobbe, Chris, Vangelis_Karkaletsis, Cooper

13:30:18 [shadi]

zakim, bye

13:30:18 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #tsdtf

13:30:34 [shadi]

rrsagent, make logs world

13:30:49 [shadi]

rrsagent, make minutes

13:30:49 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-tsdtf-minutes.html shadi

13:30:51 [shadi]

rrsagent, make logs world

13:30:56 [shadi]

rrsagent, bye

13:30:56 [RRSAgent]

I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-tsdtf-actions.rdf :

13:30:56 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Christophe to discuss with Johannes using RDF for HTTP, determine if it's needed now, or what future compatibility we may need, and discuss on list [1]

13:30:56 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-tsdtf-irc#T13-11-40

13:30:56 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Christophe to post a revised usage document [2]

13:30:56 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-tsdtf-irc#T13-23-35

13:30:56 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Shadi to send example of how to use EARL pointers in TCDL [3]

13:30:56 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-tsdtf-irc#T13-26-16