IRC log of dawg on 2006-10-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:17:00 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:17:00 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-dawg-irc
14:17:05 [kendallclark]
zakim, this will be dawg
14:17:05 [Zakim]
ok, kendallclark; I see SW_DAWG()10:30AM scheduled to start in 13 minutes
14:19:13 [kendallclark]
zakim, agenda+ Convene, approve minutes, recruit scribe, etc
14:19:13 [Zakim]
agendum 1 added
14:19:42 [AndyS]
Meeting: RDF Data Access Working group (3 Oct 2006)
14:19:48 [AndyS]
Chair: Kendall Clark
14:19:55 [AndyS]
Scribe: Andy Seaborne
14:20:02 [AndyS]
ScribeNick: AndyS
14:20:11 [AndyS]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0011
14:20:19 [SimonR]
SimonR has joined #dawg
14:22:25 [kendallclark]
zakim, agenda+ Action Items
14:22:25 [Zakim]
agendum 2 added
14:22:38 [kendallclark]
zakim, agenda+ Update on pub progress for rq24 & json-sparql
14:22:38 [Zakim]
agendum 3 added
14:22:48 [kendallclark]
zakim, agenda+ term distinctness for literals
14:22:48 [Zakim]
agendum 4 added
14:22:57 [kendallclark]
zakim, agenda+ unbound variables in FILTER
14:22:57 [Zakim]
agendum 5 added
14:23:09 [kendallclark]
zakim, agenda+ open world and other value tests
14:23:09 [Zakim]
agendum 6 added
14:23:29 [kendallclark]
zakim, agenda+ Lots of other stuff we won't have time for. :>
14:23:29 [Zakim]
agendum 7 added
14:26:15 [AndyS]
Kendall, see you got CVS fixed - is issue nonliteralValueTesting now closed as well?
14:26:18 [patH]
patH has joined #dawg
14:26:26 [AndyS]
Or was that only partial?
14:27:49 [kendallclark]
no, i didn't get it fixed :)
14:27:53 [kendallclark]
ericp checked in for me... alas
14:28:01 [kendallclark]
after working w/ sysreq people for almost an hour
14:28:06 [AndyS]
Well - that fixes it :-)
14:28:15 [kendallclark]
true
14:28:18 [kendallclark]
after a fashion
14:28:40 [kendallclark]
nonliteralValueTesting is still listed as open, and it still is open
14:28:53 [kendallclark]
did you mean to suggest that i didn't include it on agenda for future meetings?
14:29:02 [kendallclark]
(i didn't include several: it was too long already)
14:29:25 [AndyS]
No - I thoughts we'd closed it when we discussed D-entailment
14:29:33 [kendallclark]
oh
14:29:36 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()10:30AM has now started
14:29:43 [Zakim]
+PatH
14:29:44 [LeeF]
LeeF has joined #dawg
14:29:45 [Zakim]
-PatH
14:29:45 [kendallclark]
hmm, i don't recall that, but my memory is spotty
14:29:46 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended
14:29:47 [Zakim]
Attendees were PatH
14:29:54 [kendallclark]
uh...
14:29:56 [kendallclark]
stupid zakim
14:30:00 [AndyS]
there's a resolution somewhere.
14:30:00 [kendallclark]
zakim, this is dawg
14:30:00 [Zakim]
kendallclark, I see SW_DAWG()10:30AM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be dawg".
14:30:07 [kendallclark]
zakim, this will be dawg
14:30:07 [Zakim]
ok, kendallclark; I see SW_DAWG()10:30AM scheduled to start now
14:30:12 [LeeF]
zakim, pointer please?
14:30:12 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, LeeF.
14:30:15 [LeeF]
zakim, pointer?
14:30:15 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, LeeF.
14:30:19 [LeeF]
zakim, phone number?
14:30:19 [Zakim]
I am sorry, LeeF; I do not know a number for number?
14:30:24 [kendallclark]
andy: ok, can you find a pointer, and i'll close it... I simply don't recall, but I trust that you do. :)
14:30:30 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()10:30AM has now started
14:30:31 [patH]
this is hugely entrtaining :-)
14:30:36 [Zakim]
+??P3
14:30:37 [Zakim]
+??P2
14:30:46 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P3 is AndyS
14:30:46 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
14:30:50 [LeeF]
zakim, I know you're just holding out on me
14:30:50 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'I know you're just holding out on me', LeeF
14:31:08 [SimonR]
Zakim, ??P2 is SimonR
14:31:08 [Zakim]
+SimonR; got it
14:31:09 [Zakim]
+Kendall_Clark
14:31:11 [kendallclark]
tel:+1.617.761.6200 code:7333
14:31:13 [Zakim]
+PatH
14:31:19 [Zakim]
+[IBMCambridge]
14:31:20 [kendallclark]
zakim, who's on the phone?
14:31:20 [Zakim]
On the phone I see SimonR, AndyS, Kendall_Clark, PatH, [IBMCambridge]
14:31:22 [AndyS]
Kendall - I can try
14:31:23 [LeeF]
Zakim, IBMCambridge is me
14:31:23 [Zakim]
+LeeF; got it
14:31:26 [kendallclark]
Andy: thx
14:33:36 [Zakim]
+??P11
14:33:44 [ericP]
zakim, ??P11 is ericP
14:33:44 [Zakim]
+ericP; got it
14:34:26 [AndyS]
Topic: nonLiteralValueTesting (process)
14:34:36 [AndyS]
See minutes of 12/Sept.
14:34:52 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:34:54 [kendallclark]
zakim, who's on the phone?
14:34:54 [Zakim]
On the phone I see SimonR, AndyS, Kendall_Clark, PatH, LeeF, ericP, [IPcaller]
14:35:01 [SteveH]
Zakim, IPCAller SteveH
14:35:01 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'IPCAller SteveH', SteveH
14:35:06 [SteveH]
Zakim, IPCAller is SteveH
14:35:06 [Zakim]
+SteveH; got it
14:35:10 [Zakim]
+Elias_Torres
14:35:34 [EliasT]
Zakim, Elias_Torres is me
14:35:34 [Zakim]
+EliasT; got it
14:35:53 [AndyS]
Topic: Convene
14:36:34 [AndyS]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:36:34 [Zakim]
On the phone I see SimonR, AndyS, Kendall_Clark, PatH, LeeF, ericP, SteveH, EliasT
14:36:47 [AndyS]
Regrets: Fred Zemke
14:36:59 [LeeF]
i'm available
14:37:00 [AndyS]
Kendall: Proposed to meet Oct 10
14:37:06 [SteveH]
I can't make it
14:37:35 [LeeF]
for the record and at the risk of alienating non-US-baseball-fans amonst us -- Go Mets!
14:37:40 [bijan]
bijan has joined #dawg
14:37:41 [kendallclark]
zakim, please pick a scribe
14:37:41 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose AndyS
14:37:44 [kendallclark]
zakim, please pick a scribe
14:37:44 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose LeeF
14:37:47 [LeeF]
sure
14:37:52 [AndyS]
...scribe for next time: LeeF
14:37:57 [bijan]
Passcode problems
14:38:04 [kendallclark]
Next meeting: 10 Oct, same time & place, with LeeF scribing
14:38:07 [kendallclark]
#7333
14:38:15 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:38:22 [bijan]
zakim, ipcaller is me
14:38:22 [Zakim]
+bijan; got it
14:38:25 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
14:38:25 [Zakim]
bijan should now be muted
14:38:26 [AndyS]
Resolved: to meet Oct 10, scribe LeeF
14:38:38 [kendallclark]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0012.html
14:39:15 [AndyS]
RESOLUTION: to meet Oct 10, scribe LeeF
14:39:29 [kendallclark]
zakim, take up agendum 2
14:39:29 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Action Items" taken up [from kendallclark]
14:39:48 [bijan]
q+
14:39:51 [bijan]
zakim, unmute me
14:39:51 [Zakim]
bijan should no longer be muted
14:40:05 [AndyS]
Possible missing actions: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0014.html
14:40:36 [kendallclark]
ACTION: bijan to review FredZ Constructive mapping semantics for
14:40:37 [kendallclark]
SPARQL 18 Aug [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/05-dawg-irc]
14:40:39 [kendallclark]
DONE
14:40:49 [kendallclark]
[PENDING] ACTION: Bijan to review FredZ 2 Aug and relate to WG issue list
14:40:51 [kendallclark]
DONE
14:40:58 [kendallclark]
[PENDING] ACTION: KC to review FredZ 2 Aug for issue updates
14:40:59 [kendallclark]
DONE
14:41:10 [kendallclark]
ACTION: Bijan to see if the Chilean's semantics paper offers any
14:41:11 [kendallclark]
advice re: filters
14:41:15 [kendallclark]
argh, stupid bot
14:41:17 [kendallclark]
:)
14:41:25 [kendallclark]
CONTINUES
14:42:23 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
14:42:23 [Zakim]
bijan should now be muted
14:42:53 [kendallclark]
ACTION: bijan to write some text on the D-entailment issue
14:42:59 [kendallclark]
continues
14:43:05 [kendallclark]
ACTION: BijanP to propose some editorial clarification text around DATATYPE
14:43:08 [kendallclark]
continues
14:43:28 [kendallclark]
ACTION: EliasT to follow up w/ Andy on "the idiom" for plain literals/string literals
14:43:31 [kendallclark]
DONE
14:43:44 [kendallclark]
ericP effect: DATATYE (RDF term) => IRI | "" => xsd:string, ""@foo => error, ""^^X => X, blank node => error, IRI
14:43:47 [kendallclark]
DONE
14:44:09 [AndyS]
[DONE] ACTION: ericP to send mail describing how [VTV] and [BTV] illustrate basic graph matching conflicts between LC1 and LC2 semantics
14:44:11 [ericP]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JulSep/0248
14:44:57 [AndyS]
... discussion aroudn this to continue
14:45:13 [AndyS]
... KC asks Eric to send email to push it up the stack
14:45:26 [kendallclark]
zakim, take up next agendum
14:45:26 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Convene, approve minutes, recruit scribe, etc" taken up [from kendallclark]
14:45:30 [kendallclark]
zakim, take up next agendum
14:45:30 [Zakim]
agendum 1 was just opened, kendallclark
14:45:32 [kendallclark]
zakim, take up next agendum
14:45:32 [Zakim]
agendum 1 was just opened, kendallclark
14:45:44 [bijan]
AndyS, when I was reading rq24 I noticed that it seems like there has been introduced in a lot of the definition a sort of functional syntax for the algebraic operations. Is this right? Is it systmatic?
14:45:53 [kendallclark]
zakim, take up agendum 3
14:45:53 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Update on pub progress for rq24 & json-sparql" taken up [from kendallclark]
14:46:33 [LeeF]
cross-site xmlhttprequest
14:46:36 [bijan]
sure
14:47:21 [AndyS]
EricP: pub of rq24 depends on Bijan's review - got conditional "yes"
14:47:23 [bijan]
zakim, unmute me
14:47:23 [Zakim]
bijan should no longer be muted
14:47:34 [AndyS]
... partial text removal (union red text)
14:47:51 [AndyS]
Bijan: not conditional as such - can publish
14:48:21 [AndyS]
EricP: What about the issues list comment?
14:48:32 [AndyS]
Bijan: remove misleading stuff
14:48:50 [AndyS]
... union was one part of this
14:50:01 [AndyS]
Bijan's email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0001.html
14:50:11 [kendallclark]
I'd like for it to be struck.
14:50:41 [AndyS]
Kendall: wants text on costs removed.
14:51:00 [kendallclark]
Hmm, no. I said I want explanatory, construction text removed.
14:51:04 [kendallclark]
for the record :)
14:51:05 [AndyS]
Bijan: text is not accurate and so may be confusing - better to not mention
14:51:15 [kendallclark]
I said across the board I don't like meta-commentary in a spec.
14:51:18 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
14:51:18 [Zakim]
bijan should now be muted
14:51:47 [AndyS]
that is the meta-commentary text! UNION stuff has gone already
14:51:48 [bijan]
Why do we need to do this *now* for this pub?
14:51:50 [bijan]
Why not later?
14:52:10 [AndyS]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/rq24.html is the doc itself
14:52:27 [ericP]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/rq24#bnodeRef
14:53:47 [ericP]
[[
14:53:48 [ericP]
Costs: Tableau-based reasoners (at least, the Pellet Demo example 7) rely on the current, more expressive semantics to match implications that are not in a materializable RDF graph.
14:53:51 [ericP]
]]
14:54:35 [bijan]
ericP was totally garbled for me
14:54:46 [bijan]
zakim, unmute me
14:54:46 [Zakim]
bijan should no longer be muted
14:55:33 [AndyS]
EricP: it tries to explain why we need non-distinguished variables
14:56:40 [AndyS]
Bijan: two forms of variables allows more expressive queries
14:56:53 [AndyS]
... not about non-distinguished variables in patterns
14:57:04 [ericP]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-rdf-sparql-query-20050721/#BasicGraphPatternMatching
14:57:16 [ericP]
vs. http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-rdf-sparql-query-20060220/#BasicGraphPatternMatching
14:58:04 [AndyS]
EricP: explain why there is a change in the way bNodes got implemented
14:58:14 [AndyS]
Bijan: why is this about Pellet?
14:58:32 [AndyS]
EricP: key is why subgraph is not sufficient
14:59:05 [AndyS]
Bijan: no materialization of a graph that allows OWL-DL reasoner to integrate
15:02:01 [kendallclark]
Hmm, so, that's 8 minutes of discussion, and I still don't hear a *candidate* for text that everyone will agree with.
15:03:12 [AndyS]
PatH: suggest drop cost/benefit sections
15:04:56 [kendallclark]
I suggest dropping the whole 'pink box'.
15:06:19 [kendallclark]
+50
15:07:10 [AndyS]
PatH: harmless
15:07:30 [AndyS]
Kendall: Biajn's has reviewed as per the resolution
15:07:58 [AndyS]
... Bijan wants it removed; Eric wants it to go as is.
15:08:17 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
15:08:17 [Zakim]
bijan should now be muted
15:08:22 [AndyS]
Bijan: offer to send email on the topic afterwards
15:08:34 [bijan]
+1 to kendall
15:09:31 [bijan]
My point is that the purpose of this pink box is to make a difficult issue clear, it just fails
15:09:32 [AndyS]
Kendall: SW-CG want this text.
15:09:45 [AndyS]
... to get community feedback
15:09:57 [kendallclark]
zakim, take up next agendum
15:09:57 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Convene, approve minutes, recruit scribe, etc" taken up [from kendallclark]
15:10:00 [kendallclark]
zakim, take up next agendum 4
15:10:00 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'take up next agendum 4', kendallclark
15:10:03 [AndyS]
... ErciP: what else would prevent pub this week?
15:10:07 [AndyS]
EricP; nothing
15:10:07 [kendallclark]
zakim, take up agendum 4
15:10:07 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "term distinctness for literals" taken up [from kendallclark]
15:10:11 [AndyS]
EricP: nothing
15:10:45 [bijan]
zakim, unmute me
15:10:45 [Zakim]
bijan should no longer be muted
15:11:31 [AndyS]
PatH chairs for this item
15:11:46 [AndyS]
Bijan: summarises issues for literals
15:12:07 [AndyS]
... equality is value space or term sensitive
15:12:44 [AndyS]
PatH: could have a limited amout of value sensitivity - e.g. normal forms for lexcial forms
15:13:40 [AndyS]
Biajn: Fred said that there might be impls that loose the input form.
15:13:54 [ericP]
how many answers will you get with DISTINCT on the non-DISTINCT dataset?:
15:13:55 [ericP]
| type | size |
15:13:55 [ericP]
| shoe | "10"^^xsd:integer |
15:13:55 [ericP]
| shoe | "10"^^xsd:float |
15:13:55 [ericP]
| shoe | "010"^^xsd:float |
15:13:56 [AndyS]
s/Biajn/Bijan/g
15:15:27 [AndyS]
AndyS: nothing about canonical forms here
15:16:17 [AndyS]
EricP: arises for anything to do with returning a variable in SELECT
15:16:41 [AndyS]
... not about DISTINCT per se
15:17:16 [AndyS]
Path: hears agreement on surface form usage - Bijan: no
15:18:12 [AndyS]
PatH: meant two literals are equal if same lex + datatype. Nothing about input
15:18:15 [kendallclark]
zakim, mute me
15:18:15 [Zakim]
Kendall_Clark should now be muted
15:18:43 [AndyS]
Bijan: need to do something about the loading process
15:19:54 [AndyS]
AndyS: there is text around FROM for this.
15:20:01 [SimonR]
Do we need to specify a minimum set of node equalities that MUST be evaluated, and a maximum set of equalities that may be distinguished? If they're not the same, then the implementations will possibly vary. Otherwise, we have to choose One True Equality, right?
15:20:14 [AndyS]
Bijan: if this is clear, I'm fine with term distinct
15:20:37 [ericP]
PROPSEO: DINSTINCTness depends of the surface form of the literal
15:21:08 [bijan]
I don't find the langauge about "Dervied" on input
15:21:13 [kendallclark]
zakim, unmute m e
15:21:13 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'unmute m e', kendallclark
15:21:15 [kendallclark]
zakim, unmute me
15:21:15 [Zakim]
Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
15:21:47 [AndyS]
Bijan, I can't remember the keyword - there is something - it was a long debate a long time ago :-)
15:22:08 [bijan]
Heh
15:22:26 [AndyS]
PROPOSAL: DISTINCTness depends of the surface form of the literal (term distinct)
15:22:27 [kendallclark]
proper search engine optimization :)
15:22:59 [kendallclark]
We just spent nearly 20 minutes discussing informative text, so that may be overly optimistic.
15:23:06 [AndyS]
Seconded: EricP
15:23:21 [ericP]
APPROVED
15:23:28 [LeeF]
can we get actions to get text in place for this?
15:23:33 [AndyS]
RESOLUTION: DISTINCTness depends of the surface form of the literal (term distinct)
15:23:36 [kendallclark]
ACTION KendallC: to close formsOfDistinct issue
15:23:46 [kendallclark]
zakim, take up agendum 5
15:23:46 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "unbound variables in FILTER" taken up [from kendallclark]
15:23:48 [ericP]
ACTION: Bijan to propose text regarding normalization (massaging in general) while reading graphs on
15:23:52 [AndyS]
06Kendall returns to the chair
15:23:55 [ericP]
s/ on/ in/
15:24:23 [ericP]
APPROVED: Bijan abstains
15:25:02 [AndyS]
06ACTION: AndyS to edit text for DISTINCT = term-distinct
15:25:13 [patH]
Bijan requested that informative text be provided warning users about sensitivity of results to implementation stategies on graph input. (Bijan, OK??)
15:25:23 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
15:25:23 [Zakim]
bijan should now be muted
15:26:01 [AndyS]
ACTION: AndyS to edit text for DISTINCT = term-distinct
15:26:34 [AndyS]
LeeF: 2 issues :: 1/ unbound variables and 2/ scope of filters
15:26:51 [AndyS]
Kendall: let's talk about scope of filters
15:27:30 [kendallclark]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2006Sep/0001
15:27:38 [patH]
I have to step away from phone for a few minutes. Back soon.
15:29:08 [AndyS]
AndyS: Current 11.2 text discusses unbound variables
15:30:03 [ericP]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/rq24#evaluation
15:30:21 [patH]
back now.
15:30:26 [ericP]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/rq24#ebv
15:30:27 [AndyS]
... making 11.2.2. match 11.2
15:30:38 [kendallclark]
zakim, who's on the phone?
15:30:38 [Zakim]
On the phone I see SimonR, AndyS, Kendall_Clark, PatH, LeeF, ericP, SteveH, EliasT, bijan (muted)
15:30:39 [AndyS]
(11.2.2 is EBV)
15:30:48 [bijan]
I'mnot ready to talk about scope of variables or filters at the moment, sorry
15:30:59 [SteveH]
ive got mic problems
15:31:29 [kendallclark]
PROPOSED: to accept the changes outlined in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2006Sep/0001
15:31:39 [ericP]
aich tee tee pee colon
15:31:43 [bijan]
one moment
15:31:56 [bijan]
zakim, unmute me
15:31:56 [Zakim]
bijan should no longer be muted
15:32:37 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
15:32:37 [Zakim]
bijan should now be muted
15:32:54 [ericP]
APPROVE: patH and Bijan abstaining
15:32:56 [kendallclark]
Accepted, Pat & Bijan abstaining
15:32:57 [ericP]
APPROVED: patH and Bijan abstaining
15:33:20 [ericP]
APPROVED: KendallC, patH and Bijan abstaining
15:33:44 [AndyS]
Topic: scope of filters
15:34:16 [AndyS]
LeeF has proposed that filter scope is the group, not the BGP alone
15:34:51 [bijan]
q+
15:35:12 [kendallclark]
damn, i must have imagined Fred saying he agreed w/ Lee's suggestion... I cannot find it now.
15:35:22 [bijan]
zakim, unmute me
15:35:22 [Zakim]
bijan should no longer be muted
15:35:24 [kendallclark]
ack bijan
15:35:31 [AndyS]
LeeF: beleives that the scope is expected to be the group
15:35:45 [ericP]
{ ?who foaf:name ?name
15:35:45 [ericP]
FILTER (?age > 7)
15:35:45 [ericP]
?who foaf:age ?age }
15:36:36 [AndyS]
q+
15:36:43 [LeeF]
I think FredZ endorsed the group scope in his attachment to
15:36:43 [LeeF]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JulSep/0277.html
15:37:20 [SimonR]
q+
15:37:25 [ericP]
{ ?who foaf:name ?name
15:37:25 [ericP]
OPTIONAL { ?who foaf:age ?age }
15:37:25 [ericP]
OPTIONAL { ?who my:age ?age }
15:37:25 [ericP]
FILTER (?age > 7) }
15:37:34 [AndyS]
Better example.
15:37:37 [AndyS]
:-)
15:38:02 [kendallclark]
ack AndyS
15:38:45 [ericP]
1st was just to illustrate the responsibility of FILTERing vars before they are bound
15:39:02 [kendallclark]
LeeF: here's fred's agreement: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JulSep/0251.html
15:39:16 [kendallclark]
This looks like the best semantics to me.
15:39:16 [kendallclark]
I think that in general users will want to be able to sprinkle their FILTERs
15:39:16 [kendallclark]
throughout their patterns and they should not have to worry about subtle
15:39:17 [kendallclark]
differences depending on where they deposit a FILTER.
15:39:17 [LeeF]
thanks, Kendall
15:40:17 [ericP]
{ ?who foaf:name ?name FILTER regexp(?name, "^Bob")
15:40:17 [ericP]
?who foaf:age ?age FILTER (?age > 7 }
15:40:33 [kendallclark]
ack SimonR
15:40:50 [bijan]
But how does it interact withoptional?
15:40:51 [ericP]
q+ to mention FredZ's semantics
15:40:58 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
15:40:58 [Zakim]
bijan should now be muted
15:41:42 [kendallclark]
Hmm, I'm curious whether anyone has an opinion on the next move:
15:41:53 [kendallclark]
1. approve Lee's tests and vote on this next week
15:41:59 [kendallclark]
2. approve tests and vote now
15:42:31 [AndyS]
SimonR: worried if we are saying ordering is about impl hacks
15:43:24 [AndyS]
... had a graph with the mathematical facts (infinite)
15:44:21 [AndyS]
EricP: are we in agreement with FILTER/regex example above (filter with ?name)?
15:44:53 [AndyS]
PatH: usually restrict to actual graph terms
15:45:07 [AndyS]
EricP: FredZ proposed text
15:45:18 [bijan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2006Jun/0008.html
15:45:23 [bijan]
May or may not be related
15:45:39 [AndyS]
What exactly is the text?
15:45:45 [Zakim]
-EliasT
15:46:20 [AndyS]
Bijan, no I don'think it is the same - they were talking about unbound, not placement
15:47:27 [kendallclark]
zakim, take up agendum 6
15:47:27 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "open world and other value tests" taken up [from kendallclark]
15:47:34 [kendallclark]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JulSep/0169.html
15:47:50 [AndyS]
Topic: Tests for datatype http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JulSep/0169
15:47:55 [bijan]
mentioned in the FILTER condition to those in the pattern that is being
15:47:55 [bijan]
filtered."""
15:47:58 [bijan]
Sigh
15:48:01 [bijan]
Stupid client
15:48:28 [kendallclark]
ACTION KendallC: put scope of filters at the top of next week's agenda
15:49:34 [patH]
bijan, sounds like Jorge is talking about possible syntactic error, right? If so I agree with him.
15:50:53 [AndyS]
Tests are some fixes and some for datatype()
15:51:26 [ericP]
here's what's currently in 11
15:51:28 [ericP]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/rq24#operandDataTypes
15:51:28 [ericP]
simple literal denotes a plain literal with no language tag.
15:51:28 [ericP]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/rq24#func-datatype
15:51:28 [ericP]
Returns the datatype IRI of ltrl if ltrl is a typed literal; returns xsd:string if ltrl is a simple literal; produces an error otherwise.
15:53:28 [kendallclark]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JulSep/0169.html
15:53:46 [bijan]
Just for my curiosity, have we fixed the issues raised in: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2006Jun/0008.html ?
15:53:55 [kendallclark]
ACTION PatH: to review the proposed tests in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JulSep/0169.html and say yay or nay
15:54:14 [bijan]
E.g., """for some graph patterns P it is not always the case that {P . P} gives the same result as { P }."""
15:54:40 [AndyS]
Topic: Open World tests:10 01http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JulSep/0180
15:55:06 [kendallclark]
ACTION EricP: to review the tests in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JulSep/0180.html and say yay or nay
15:55:53 [bijan]
zakim, unmute me
15:55:53 [Zakim]
bijan should no longer be muted
15:57:56 [AndyS]
ACTION: Bijan review rq24 against http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2006Jun/0008.html
15:58:13 [kendallclark]
Zakim, take up agendum 12
15:58:13 [Zakim]
I only see 7 items on the agenda
15:58:27 [AndyS]
Topic: Protocol spec
15:58:53 [AndyS]
Kendall: does not have time to chair and edit the protocol spec
15:59:05 [AndyS]
... asked Elias and Lee to become editors
15:59:11 [AndyS]
... and they have agreed
15:59:27 [bijan]
kendall, perhaps send an annouce of the appt to the mailing list?
15:59:29 [ericP]
sounds good to me
15:59:31 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
15:59:31 [Zakim]
bijan should now be muted
15:59:44 [bijan]
Ah, I tought editorship was at chairs discrestion :)
16:00:08 [bijan]
But I vote for lee and elias anyway!
16:00:13 [bijan]
FOR PRESIDENT
16:00:38 [bijan]
seconded
16:00:40 [bijan]
And thrided
16:00:42 [bijan]
And acclaimed
16:00:49 [LeeF]
feel better bijan!
16:00:49 [AndyS]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
16:00:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-dawg-minutes.html AndyS
16:00:54 [Zakim]
-PatH
16:00:55 [bijan]
thx leef
16:01:03 [Zakim]
-bijan
16:01:05 [Zakim]
-AndyS
16:01:07 [LeeF]
and feel wetter kendall's eyes!
16:01:13 [kendallclark]
yeah, thanks to IBM guys for helping
16:01:33 [Zakim]
-Kendall_Clark
16:01:40 [AndyS]
rrsagent, please make logs world-visible
16:01:47 [Zakim]
-LeeF
16:01:50 [AndyS]
rrsagent, please make minutes world-visible
16:01:50 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'please make minutes world-visible', AndyS. Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:02:12 [Zakim]
-ericP
16:02:24 [AndyS]
AndyS has left #dawg
16:02:30 [Zakim]
-SteveH
16:03:12 [Zakim]
-SimonR
16:03:13 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended
16:03:15 [Zakim]
Attendees were AndyS, SimonR, Kendall_Clark, PatH, LeeF, ericP, SteveH, EliasT, bijan
16:05:50 [afs]
rrsagent, please leave
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
I see 12 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-dawg-actions.rdf :
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: bijan to review FredZ Constructive mapping semantics for [1]
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-dawg-irc#T14-40-36
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Bijan to see if the Chilean's semantics paper offers any [2]
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-dawg-irc#T14-41-10
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: bijan to write some text on the D-entailment issue [3]
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-dawg-irc#T14-42-53
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: BijanP to propose some editorial clarification text around DATATYPE [4]
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-dawg-irc#T14-43-05
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: EliasT to follow up w/ Andy on "the idiom" for plain literals/string literals [5]
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-dawg-irc#T14-43-28
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: KendallC to to close formsOfDistinct issue [6]
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-dawg-irc#T15-23-36
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Bijan to propose text regarding normalization (massaging in general) while reading graphs on [7]
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-dawg-irc#T15-23-48
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: AndyS to edit text for DISTINCT = term-distinct [8]
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-dawg-irc#T15-26-01
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: KendallC to put scope of filters at the top of next week's agenda [9]
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-dawg-irc#T15-48-28
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: PatH to to review the proposed tests in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JulSep/0169.html and say yay or nay [10]
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-dawg-irc#T15-53-55
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: EricP to to review the tests in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JulSep/0180.html and say yay or nay [11]
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-dawg-irc#T15-55-06
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Bijan review rq24 against http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2006Jun/0008.html [12]
16:05:50 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/03-dawg-irc#T15-57-56
16:06:02 [AndyS]
zakim, leave
16:06:02 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #dawg