IRC log of tsdtf on 2006-09-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:27:26 [RRSAgent]
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12:27:26 [RRSAgent]
logging to
12:27:30 [ChrisR]
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12:27:31 [Zakim]
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12:27:43 [shadi]
zakim, this will be TSD
12:27:47 [Zakim]
ok, shadi; I see WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
12:28:00 [shadi]
meeting: TSD TF
12:28:09 [shadi]
chair: CarlosV, Christophe
12:28:35 [Christophe]
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12:28:39 [shadi]
12:29:03 [shadi]
agenda+ Continue discussion on TCDL
12:29:11 [shadi]
agenda+ Start of test production phase
12:29:57 [Zakim]
WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has now started
12:29:59 [Zakim]
12:30:44 [Zakim]
12:31:00 [Zakim]
12:31:01 [Michael]
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12:31:04 [CarlosI]
CarlosI has joined #tsdtf
12:31:29 [shadi]
zakim, ipcaller is really Chris
12:31:29 [Zakim]
+Chris; got it
12:31:46 [carlosV]
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12:31:50 [Zakim]
12:32:29 [Zakim]
12:33:04 [shadi]
zakim, ??p2 is really CarlosI
12:33:04 [Zakim]
+CarlosI; got it
12:33:10 [Zakim]
12:33:28 [shadi]
zakim, thomasT is really CarlosV
12:33:28 [Zakim]
+CarlosV; got it
12:34:54 [shadi]
regrets: Vangelis
12:35:08 [shadi]
zakim, who is on the call?
12:35:08 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Shadi, Christophe_Strobbe, Chris, Cooper, CarlosI, CarlosV
12:36:55 [shadi]
scribe: Shadi
12:36:59 [shadi]
scribenick: Shadi
12:37:28 [shadi]
zakim, take up agendum 1
12:37:28 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Continue discussion on TCDL" taken up [from shadi]
12:38:24 [shadi]
CV: CV, CS, and SAZ had brief call about exntesion to help finalize TCDL work
12:38:49 [shadi]
CV: TCDL 2.0 will remain a BenToWeb spec on BenToWeb namespace
12:39:50 [shadi]
CV: validation of TSD TF metadata will happen according to TCDL 2.0
12:40:21 [shadi]
...and additionally a second step will be needed to check the usage of the TCDL 2.0 is according to TSD TF requirements
12:40:50 [shadi]
...current proposal for the second step would be Schematron but there may be other mechanisms
12:45:50 [shadi]
SAZ: initial proposal to have two separate schemas (BenToWeb one and TSD TF one) has flaws
12:47:46 [Zakim]
+ +43.732.246.8aaaa
12:48:05 [shadi]
zakim, aaaa is really Daniela
12:48:05 [Zakim]
+Daniela; got it
12:48:44 [shadi]
SAZ: the proposal is to have one schema, and a second step for checking the metadata content
12:49:56 [shadi]
CI: i am concerned that referencing TCDL 2.0 will imply endorsement by W3C
12:50:15 [Zakim]
12:50:37 [shadi]
...we only need specific parts of it, why not just use it as we like
12:50:56 [shadi]
...we just need metadata to store our information
12:51:07 [shadi]
...we are spending too much time on this part
12:52:35 [Tim]
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12:53:53 [shadi]
SAZ: shouldn't compare TFs, the other was a tools database
12:55:15 [shadi]
...these tests may have a large impact, and we should spend adequate time thinking about the metadata
12:55:33 [shadi]
...referencing the spec does not imply endorsement
12:55:53 [shadi]
CI: people will imply endorsement, even if you don't like it
12:56:05 [shadi]
...and there are contravesial things in there
12:58:17 [shadi]
SAZ: assuming that the TSD TF documentation clarifies that there is no endorsement of the TCDL 2.0
12:58:54 [shadi]
...and assuming that there is a mechanism to check that the metadata published on W3C reflects this usage
12:59:04 [shadi]
...are you still concerned?
12:59:23 [shadi]
CI: worried but can live with the solution
12:59:37 [shadi] is a contraversial and sensitive area
13:02:13 [shadi]
SAZ: note that TCDL 2.0 does not make assumptions on user testing, it only provides a mechanism to describe tests that are carried out by users
13:04:04 [shadi]
CI: still a tricky area in web accessibility
13:06:22 [shadi]
RESOLUTION: review TCDL 2.0 to make sure it contains the TSD TF requirements, then document how TCDL 2.0 will be used in the context of the TF (with special care of any potential endorsement misinterpretation)
13:11:11 [shadi]
CV: discussion extensibility model still pending
13:11:44 [shadi]
...model B will lead to a more chaotic metadata
13:12:05 [shadi]
...we may need to add extension points
13:12:18 [shadi]
...but all over the place may be tough
13:13:10 [shadi]
CS: in BenToWeb we tried to add new elements as optional to avoid compatibility issues
13:15:30 [shadi]
SAZ: third model would be to keep the BenToWeb schema as the master, then use schematron or something else to verify the content of the metadata
13:15:43 [shadi]
TB: sounds like an interesting option
13:15:50 [shadi]
CS: i agree
13:16:38 [shadi]
CV: second stage to ensure that the task force restrictions are applied
13:19:29 [shadi]
RESOLUTION: adopt BenToWeb extension model (model A of extension points)
13:22:01 [shadi]
RESOLUTION: adopt a two-stage model to validate the metadata according to the BenToWeb schema, then a second verification step to ensure that the TSD TF contraints are adhered
13:22:21 [shadi]
13:24:08 [shadi]
SAZ: will there be a way to add other pointers in the location element?
13:24:57 [shadi]
CS: yes
13:25:14 [shadi]
CV: we are not there yet, section "technologies"
13:26:06 [shadi]
CS: "baseline" not finalized by WCAG WG yet (or reopened)
13:26:26 [shadi]
...seems to be inline to exclude specific parts of a technology
13:27:58 [shadi]
SAZ: what is the impact of the changes to baseline by WCAG WG on the tests development
13:28:41 [shadi]
CS: hard to judge at the moment
13:29:37 [shadi]
SAZ: worried about implications
13:29:59 [shadi]
...maybe can try to develop non-baseline dependent tests first
13:30:42 [Zakim]
13:30:45 [shadi]
CV: doesn't really impact TCDL 2.0 as much, more the test development
13:35:39 [Zakim]
13:35:41 [Zakim]
13:35:41 [ChrisR]
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13:35:42 [Zakim]
13:35:43 [Zakim]
13:35:45 [Zakim]
13:35:47 [Zakim]
13:36:01 [shadi]
action: everyone to review the link on the agenda (and above)
13:36:11 [Zakim]
13:36:13 [Zakim]
WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has ended
13:36:14 [Zakim]
Attendees were Shadi, Christophe_Strobbe, Chris, Cooper, CarlosI, CarlosV, +43.732.246.8aaaa, Daniela, Tim_Boland
13:36:33 [shadi]
zakim, bye
13:36:33 [Zakim]
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13:38:06 [Christophe]
Christophe has left #tsdtf
13:38:46 [shadi]
rrsagent, make logs world
13:39:09 [shadi]
rrsagent, make minutes
13:39:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate shadi
13:39:17 [shadi]
rrsagent, make logs world
13:39:31 [shadi]
rrsagent, bye
13:39:31 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in :
13:39:31 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: everyone to review the link on the agenda (and above) [1]
13:39:31 [RRSAgent]
recorded in