IRC log of rif on 2006-09-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:48:59 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rif
14:48:59 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/09/26-rif-irc
14:49:53 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #rif
14:50:05 [csma]
zakim, this will be rifwg
14:50:05 [Zakim]
ok, csma; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
14:50:31 [AlexKozlenkov]
AlexKozlenkov has joined #rif
14:52:01 [MalaMehrotra]
MalaMehrotra has joined #rif
14:52:04 [csma]
Topic: '26 Sept RIF agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Sep/0069.html'
14:52:32 [csma]
Scribe: Mala Mehrotra
14:52:43 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
14:52:50 [Zakim]
+Mala_Mehrotra
14:52:54 [csma]
Scribenick: MalaMehrotra
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MarkusK has joined #rif
14:54:26 [Francois]
Francois has joined #rif
14:55:12 [FrankMcCabe]
FrankMcCabe has joined #rif
14:55:46 [Zakim]
+ +1.714.778.aaaa
14:55:57 [csma]
zakim, aaaa is me
14:55:57 [Zakim]
+csma; got it
14:55:58 [MoZ]
Zakim, what is the code ?
14:55:58 [Zakim]
the conference code is 74394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), MoZ
14:56:29 [Harold]
Harold has joined #rif
14:57:14 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:57:19 [FrankMcCabe]
zakim, ipcaller is me
14:57:19 [Zakim]
+FrankMcCabe; got it
14:58:10 [Zakim]
+ChrisW
14:58:26 [igor]
igor has joined #rif
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+[IPcaller]
14:59:07 [Zakim]
+[NRCC]
14:59:10 [DaveReynolds]
DaveReynolds has joined #rif
14:59:19 [Harold]
zakim, [NRCC] is me
14:59:19 [Zakim]
+Harold; got it
14:59:24 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:59:31 [Allen]
Allen has joined #rif
14:59:38 [igor]
zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:59:38 [Zakim]
+igor; got it
14:59:40 [DavidHirtle]
DavidHirtle has joined #rif
14:59:43 [Zakim]
+??P10
14:59:46 [igor]
zakim, mute me
14:59:46 [Zakim]
igor should now be muted
14:59:51 [Zakim]
-??P10
15:00:00 [sandro]
sandro has joined #rif
15:00:02 [Zakim]
+??P11
15:00:09 [pfps]
pfps has joined #rif
15:00:13 [Francois]
zakim, ??P11 is me.
15:00:13 [Zakim]
+Francois; got it
15:00:24 [Francois]
zakim, please mute me.
15:00:24 [Zakim]
Francois should now be muted
15:00:38 [Zakim]
+??P12
15:00:39 [Zakim]
+Allen_Ginsberg
15:00:43 [LeoraMorgenstern]
LeoraMorgenstern has joined #rif
15:00:44 [Zakim]
+Sandro
15:00:54 [Allen]
zakim, mute me
15:00:54 [Zakim]
Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
15:00:58 [pfps]
zakim, ??p12 is me
15:00:58 [Zakim]
+pfps; got it
15:01:06 [Deborah_Nichols]
Deborah_Nichols has joined #rif
15:01:21 [Allen]
Hi
15:01:23 [Zakim]
+??P14
15:01:23 [csma]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:24 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mala_Mehrotra, csma, FrankMcCabe, ChrisW, MarkusK (muted), Harold, igor (muted), Francois (muted), pfps, Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Sandro, ??P14 (muted)
15:01:32 [AlexKozlenkov]
zakim, ??P14 is me
15:01:32 [Zakim]
+AlexKozlenkov; got it
15:01:38 [AlexKozlenkov]
zakim, mute me
15:01:38 [Zakim]
AlexKozlenkov should now be muted
15:01:38 [StellaMitchell]
StellaMitchell has joined #rif
15:01:44 [Zakim]
+Leora_Morgenstern
15:01:49 [Zakim]
+Deborah_Nichols
15:01:55 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:01:59 [LeoraMorgenstern]
zakim, please mute me
15:01:59 [Zakim]
Leora_Morgenstern should now be muted
15:02:05 [cgi-irc]
cgi-irc has joined #rif
15:02:19 [sandro]
sandro has changed the topic to: 26 Sept RIF Agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Sep/0069.html
15:02:26 [Zakim]
+??P19
15:02:27 [Zakim]
+Dave_Reynolds (was ??P19)
15:02:30 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has joined #rif
15:02:43 [Francois]
I hear you clearly.
15:02:46 [Deborah_Nichols]
sound good to me - deborah
15:02:54 [Zakim]
+Mike_Dean
15:02:56 [MichaelKifer]
MichaelKifer has joined #rif
15:03:04 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
15:03:24 [StellaMitchell]
zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me
15:03:24 [Zakim]
+StellaMitchell; got it
15:03:51 [Zakim]
+Axel_Polleres
15:04:22 [LeoraMorgenstern]
Regarding the minutes:
15:04:27 [LeoraMorgenstern]
some attendees are misisng
15:04:31 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Next meeting is next wwek . Propose postpone accepting last week's minutes
15:04:36 [LeoraMorgenstern]
Okay, will post on mailing list
15:04:40 [sandro]
(Mohamed Zergaoui, INNOVIMAX)
15:04:45 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:05:01 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Amendments to agenda? None
15:05:22 [cgi-irc]
Zakim, IPCaller is me
15:05:22 [Zakim]
+cgi-irc; got it
15:05:26 [LeoraMorgenstern]
s/misisng/missing/
15:05:36 [johnhall]
johnhall has joined #rif
15:05:57 [sandro]
zakim, take up next item
15:05:57 [Zakim]
I see nothing on the agenda
15:05:59 [cgi-irc]
Scribe: cgi-irc = PVincent
15:06:03 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Sandro will record the actions and close them.
15:06:03 [Zakim]
+Gary_Hallmark
15:06:36 [GiorgosStoilos]
GiorgosStoilos has joined #rif
15:06:53 [sandro]
topic: F2F4
15:07:00 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Agenda - F2F4
15:07:31 [MalaMehrotra]
peter: Putting in registration information on the web
15:07:38 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:07:46 [sandro]
MalaMehrotra, a like like "topic: something" will make "something" a new heading in the minutes.
15:07:50 [Zakim]
+GiorgosStoilos
15:07:51 [johnhall]
zakim, ipcaller is me
15:07:51 [Zakim]
+johnhall; got it
15:07:53 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Post regrets if not ab;le to attend
15:07:58 [johnhall]
zakim, mute me
15:08:01 [Zakim]
johnhall should now be muted
15:08:03 [AxelPolleres]
Please send fax number also by mail.
15:08:28 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: F2F5 - Michael asked about it last time. WHo should host it
15:08:50 [polo]
polo has joined #rif
15:09:31 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: January probable date for F2F5. Tech Plenirary in Jan at MIT. collocate with that. Sandro's action item.
15:09:40 [sandro]
ACTION: Sandro investigate whether we can get a large enough room for a F2F5 at the mini-tech-plenary at MIT in January.
15:09:40 [rifbot]
Created ACTION-121 - Investigate whether we can get a large enough room for a F2F5 at the mini-tech-plenary at MIT in January. [on Sandro Hawke - due 2006-10-03].
15:09:51 [Zakim]
+MichaelKifer
15:10:11 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
15:10:11 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should now be muted
15:10:22 [MoZ]
Sorry, I will be a little late (another telcon finishing)
15:10:40 [MichaelKifer]
q+
15:10:50 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
15:10:50 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
15:10:50 [csma]
ack mich
15:10:58 [sandro]
ChrisW: Maybe we'll have F2F6 at http://www2007.org/, so F2F5 should be in Europe.
15:11:01 [AxelPolleres]
http://www2007.org/
15:11:12 [Zakim]
+??P34
15:11:16 [MalaMehrotra]
Chris Welty - WWW Conference in Banff in May. Next
15:11:30 [polo]
zakim, ??P34 is me
15:11:30 [Zakim]
+polo; got it
15:11:36 [polo]
zakim, mute me
15:11:36 [Zakim]
polo should now be muted
15:12:06 [MalaMehrotra]
Mike Kifer: F2F6 in Banff.
15:12:16 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: F2F5 end of January.
15:12:49 [MalaMehrotra]
Mike: Too short between F2F5 and F2F6. Normally 5 months?
15:12:59 [AxelPolleres]
I'd personally prefer mid feb
15:13:15 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Closer to 3 months between F2F
15:13:39 [sandro]
Sandro: Charter says "Face-to-face meetings will be held every two to four months."
15:13:39 [MalaMehrotra]
like 3-4 months is presecribed by WWW
15:14:01 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: More like end of January- Feb.
15:14:31 [MalaMehrotra]
Sandro: Can someone look into organizing details for F2F6 in Banff
15:14:47 [MalaMehrotra]
Csma: Find who to organize F2F6 in Banff
15:15:03 [sandro]
ACTION Christian to investigate F2F6 being colocated with WWW2007 in Banff
15:15:04 [MalaMehrotra]
Csma: Next Action - Liason
15:15:10 [sandro]
ACTION: Christian to investigate F2F6 being colocated with WWW2007 in Banff
15:15:10 [rifbot]
Created ACTION-122 - Investigate F2F6 being colocated with WWW2007 in Banff [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2006-10-03].
15:16:08 [MalaMehrotra]
Mike Kifer: RuleML conference after ISWC - stay 2 more days. OWL-Ed workshop also collocated both on time and place.
15:16:16 [AxelPolleres]
http://2006.ruleml.org/
15:16:34 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
15:16:34 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should now be muted
15:16:37 [MichaelKifer]
q-
15:16:38 [AxelPolleres]
http://owl-workshop.man.ac.uk/OWLWorkshop06.html
15:16:43 [MalaMehrotra]
Mike: Sept 30. deadline. Business Rules conference in Washington in the week of ISWC.
15:17:15 [AxelPolleres]
q+
15:17:22 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Action Item 100. Axel will be the editor.
15:17:41 [johnhall]
nothing on SBVR
15:18:02 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: PVincent - will you join PRR as well?
15:18:09 [AxelPolleres]
q- we can discuss this when we come to rifraf in the agenda
15:18:19 [cgi-irc]
Sorry I'm muted!
15:18:21 [AxelPolleres]
q-, we can discuss this when we come to rifraf in the agenda
15:18:33 [csma]
ack cgi
15:18:34 [AxelPolleres]
q-
15:18:54 [sandro]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:18:54 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mala_Mehrotra, csma, FrankMcCabe, ChrisW, MarkusK (muted), Harold, igor (muted), Francois (muted), pfps, Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Sandro, AlexKozlenkov (muted),
15:18:58 [Zakim]
... Leora_Morgenstern (muted), Deborah_Nichols (muted), DavidHirtle, Dave_Reynolds, Mike_Dean, StellaMitchell (muted), Axel_Polleres, cgi-irc, Gary_Hallmark, johnhall (muted),
15:19:02 [Zakim]
... GiorgosStoilos, MichaelKifer (muted), polo (muted)
15:19:11 [sandro]
Zakim, cgi-irc is Paul_Vincent
15:19:11 [Zakim]
+Paul_Vincent; got it
15:19:17 [cgi-irc]
PaulV: TIBCO will rejoin PRR when rejoin OMG
15:19:41 [Allen]
zakim, unmute me
15:19:41 [Zakim]
Allen_Ginsberg should no longer be muted
15:19:51 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Next is UCR
15:19:51 [sandro]
PaulV, can you try "/nick Paul" ?
15:20:20 [sandro]
that worked, Paul.
15:20:25 [Paul]
Thx :)
15:20:36 [sandro]
action-38 continued
15:20:40 [sandro]
action-41 continued
15:20:48 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Action on Chris contd. for relationship of OWL and RDF. Action 38 is continued.
15:21:18 [sandro]
action-72 continued -- csma will try to talk Dan in person this week
15:22:39 [MalaMehrotra]
Sandro: send email to say some action items are done - will be desirable
15:23:01 [MalaMehrotra]
Deborah did send email will discuss when her turn comes.
15:23:20 [johnhall]
zakim, unmute me
15:23:20 [Zakim]
johnhall should no longer be muted
15:23:37 [sandro]
action-99 done
15:23:55 [sandro]
action-105 -- John says he'll finish it today
15:24:12 [johnhall]
zakim, mute me
15:24:12 [Zakim]
johnhall should now be muted
15:24:34 [sandro]
action-115 redundtant with Frank's -- a mistake.
15:25:26 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Issues
15:25:30 [sandro]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/issues/open
15:25:42 [sandro]
issue-3
15:25:59 [csma]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Sep/0067.html
15:26:30 [AlexKozlenkov]
AlexKozlenkov has joined #rif
15:27:26 [MalaMehrotra]
Frank: Interoperability and extensibility supported. Extensibility was dropped. XML syntax supports extensibility within its model. XML extensibility strategy being reported on. by Frank
15:27:40 [sandro]
Frank: XML has an extensibility strategy -- not universally used (eg SOAP "must understand") -- based on ignoring structures you don't understand.
15:28:24 [MalaMehrotra]
Frank: XML does support extensibility. There is a link between supporting XML for extensibility and CSF.
15:28:35 [csma]
q+
15:28:47 [csma]
ack cgi
15:28:52 [csma]
ack cs
15:28:55 [DaveReynolds]
q+
15:28:56 [MalaMehrotra]
Csma: Perhaps people did not understand it..
15:29:30 [DaveReynolds]
q-
15:29:31 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Propose resolution at the next meeting.
15:29:42 [Zakim]
-Mike_Dean
15:30:02 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Issue 4:also posted by Frank
15:30:03 [csma]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Sep/0068.html
15:30:04 [Zakim]
-Gary_Hallmark
15:30:36 [MalaMehrotra]
Frank: com[pliance model and interoperability CSF diagram - was dropped in
15:30:40 [sandro]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/issues/4
15:31:00 [MalaMehrotra]
Frank: Don't know why it was dropped in last F2F?
15:31:11 [MalaMehrotra]
sandro: doesn't know why
15:31:17 [DavidHirtle]
I think it was just due to lack of time for discussion/consensus
15:31:28 [DavidHirtle]
(before the last draft)
15:31:55 [MalaMehrotra]
sandro: Most people did not understand the concept - that is why it was dropped
15:32:20 [sandro]
s/dropped/dropped -- as far as I can remember/
15:33:07 [MalaMehrotra]
frank: have a simple compliance model means varying the model to adapt to the specification of interoperability
15:33:45 [sandro]
Frank: Compliance Model is higher/meta level than Default Behavior
15:34:41 [MalaMehrotra]
frank: compliance model is at the meta level - RIF spec is a document. To be compliant look at the various features. Complain model gives you what you need to be compliant for interoperability
15:35:16 [DavidHirtle]
+1 to ChrisW
15:35:26 [DavidHirtle]
we can resolve these issues now
15:35:34 [MalaMehrotra]
Chris: No one was speaking up on this last time. In that accept it and move on.
15:36:03 [DaveReynolds]
q+
15:36:10 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Issue 3:Propose to accept Frank's solution
15:36:21 [csma]
ack dave
15:36:25 [DavidHirtle]
Frank's solution: the XML syntax req supports both the interoperability and the extensibility CSFs
15:36:27 [GaryHallmark]
GaryHallmark has joined #rif
15:37:18 [MalaMehrotra]
Dave Reynolds: Not sure about the proposal.
15:37:25 [Zakim]
+Gary_Hallmark
15:37:39 [sandro]
DaveReynolds: I think RDF/XML supports extensibility where XML does not -- XML tools do not generally automatically support extensibilkity.
15:38:06 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: we are chartered to see if XML supports extesibility , not look at some other language
15:38:23 [sandro]
Frank: XML's approach to extensibility is probably not strong enough for RIF -- RDF/XML's might or might not be.
15:38:26 [MalaMehrotra]
Frank: XML or RDF model strong enough for RIF
15:39:15 [MalaMehrotra]
Dave: Geberic XML tools do not allow extensibility
15:39:23 [sandro]
Frank: XML tools *do* allow arbitrary content to go through -- DaveReynolds is wrong.
15:39:29 [sandro]
csma: please move this to e-mail.
15:39:58 [DavidHirtle]
Proposed: the Compliance Model requirement supports the Interoperability CSF
15:40:03 [Zakim]
-MichaelKifer
15:40:44 [csma]
However, the reason that a compliance model supports interoperability
15:40:44 [csma]
is that a formal understanding of what it means to comply to the RIF
15:40:44 [csma]
is *essential* to the succesful use of RIF, and hence to
15:40:44 [csma]
interoperability. The alternative to a formal compliance model is an
15:40:44 [csma]
informal one: i.e., that defined by what popular tools support.
15:41:27 [sandro]
+1 this text
15:42:11 [sandro]
RESOLVED that the compliance model supports interoperability, for this reason.
15:42:38 [sandro]
RESOLVED: that the compliance model requirement supports interoperability CSF, for this reason.
15:42:50 [sandro]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/issues/5
15:43:44 [sandro]
skip issue 5 -- actions pending
15:43:45 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Skip issue 5 and move to issue 6
15:43:52 [sandro]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/issues/6
15:44:09 [DavidHirtle]
it was closed in a previous telecon, right?
15:44:19 [DavidHirtle]
oh, nevermind -- that was the previous one
15:44:55 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Explain issue 6.2
15:45:16 [sandro]
q+ to explain something about tracker and e-mail.
15:45:50 [Deborah_Nichols]
csma: Action 114 on Chris W addressed issue 6.2
15:46:00 [MalaMehrotra]
Chris W. Implementability and using std. components. difference is that semantics of RIF should be such that it shouldn't allow people to solve currently insolved problems
15:46:31 [MalaMehrotra]
Chris W/ Design should make people use what is out there - components
15:47:01 [sandro]
csma: Implementability means: implementaiton requires no new science
15:47:16 [MalaMehrotra]
ChrisW. one rqmt for implementability pushes for - no new developemnt solution to be looked at
15:47:40 [Zakim]
+MichaelKifer
15:47:42 [sandro]
csma: while "standard components" means implement can re-use existing software modules, eg XML for parsers.
15:47:44 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
15:47:44 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should now be muted
15:47:54 [MalaMehrotra]
ChrisW. Other one on component encourages use of what is already out there.
15:47:54 [sandro]
this is about ISSUE-6
15:48:18 [MalaMehrotra]
Csma: Dave R. Are you convinced by Chris's rqmt?
15:48:29 [sandro]
DaveReynolds: I am convinced by this; the question is who is going to fix the text
15:48:33 [MalaMehrotra]
Dave R. No Objection for Chris's suggestion.
15:48:44 [MalaMehrotra]
Chris W. will clarify this
15:48:45 [sandro]
ACTION: Chris to propose new text clarifying ISSUE-6
15:48:45 [rifbot]
Created ACTION-123 - Propose new text clarifying ISSUE-6 [on Chris Menzel - due 2006-10-03].
15:48:56 [sandro]
ACTION: ChrisW to propose new text clarifying ISSUE-6
15:48:56 [rifbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - ChrisW
15:48:59 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Issue 7 - Deborah sent email on that
15:49:02 [sandro]
ACTION: Chris Welty to propose new text clarifying ISSUE-6
15:49:02 [rifbot]
Created ACTION-124 - Welty to propose new text clarifying ISSUE-6 [on Chris Menzel - due 2006-10-03].
15:49:08 [csma]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Sep/0061.html
15:49:14 [sandro]
ACTION: Welty to propose new text clarifying ISSUE-6
15:49:14 [rifbot]
Created ACTION-125 - Propose new text clarifying ISSUE-6 [on Christopher Welty - due 2006-10-03].
15:49:21 [MalaMehrotra]
Deborah: Has summarized the issue in an email
15:50:18 [MalaMehrotra]
Deborah: Criticism on the use cases - some things not resolved. So revisited it.
15:50:58 [DavidHirtle]
-1 to moving the use cases
15:51:31 [MalaMehrotra]
-- Is there a general agreemnent on length of use cases. Move it with more description with RIf
15:52:21 [DavidHirtle]
q+
15:52:22 [LeoraMorgenstern]
q+
15:52:30 [LeoraMorgenstern]
zakim, please unmute me
15:52:30 [Zakim]
Leora_Morgenstern should no longer be muted
15:52:43 [sandro]
q-
15:53:01 [MalaMehrotra]
-- use cases should be illustration in the features fro RIF. Focus use cases to be focussed more. #3 under 7 - should we do any more work to focus the use case rqmt.
15:53:02 [csma]
ack dav
15:53:30 [sandro]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/issues/7
15:53:42 [MalaMehrotra]
David: Derive rqmts from the use cases?
15:54:15 [MalaMehrotra]
Csma: He menat not just a pointer from use case to rqmt but some explanation is needed
15:54:42 [FrankMcCabe]
gotto go ... see y'all next week
15:54:53 [MalaMehrotra]
Dave: this requirement sounds backward. Looks liek each use case willneed to be turned out
15:54:55 [Zakim]
-FrankMcCabe
15:54:56 [sandro]
Ciao, FrankMcCabe.
15:56:04 [MalaMehrotra]
Deborah: UC were motivational to begin with and they could point to more than oone rqmt. SO w/o restructuring do the linking to rqmt.
15:56:20 [csma]
ack leor
15:56:27 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: work we haven't done anything on this front yet.
15:57:24 [Zakim]
-polo
15:57:26 [Allen]
q+
15:57:28 [MalaMehrotra]
Leora: UC were at a high level of descriptions. If there was some more detailed level of description then the rqmts would be much clearer.
15:57:44 [DavidHirtle]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UCR/Requirements
15:57:49 [MalaMehrotra]
-- post the rqmts list
15:57:57 [sandro]
As published: http://www.w3.org/TR/rif-ucr/#Requirements
15:58:55 [csma]
q?
15:58:57 [MalaMehrotra]
-- embedded meta-data for eg. hard to link the UC and R add more meat to them by being more concrete.
15:59:12 [MalaMehrotra]
sandro: Each UC should be manifested a test case
16:01:11 [MalaMehrotra]
CSMA: 3 different sources of rqmt - UC, RL to be covered, from the charter of the wg.
16:01:36 [csma]
q?
16:02:09 [csma]
ack allen
16:02:10 [MalaMehrotra]
Leora: shorten the rqmt. MAke the UC more solid. In order to illustrate the link more solidly
16:02:19 [sandro]
+1 to putting real rules, in real rule languages in at least some of the use cases.
16:02:34 [sandro]
(maybe off in a different, Test Cases document.)
16:03:05 [MalaMehrotra]
Allen: Some of the R are non-functional - cannot pont to it like security, implemenatbility, semantic coverage, etc.
16:03:43 [LeoraMorgenstern]
Mala, I am not arguing, per se, for shortening the requirements: Rather, I am arguing for making at least some use cases more concrete, while recognizing the need not to add length to the already over-long use cases.
16:03:44 [MalaMehrotra]
-- soon is an issue too. Come up with links for meta data is doable.
16:04:23 [sandro]
ACTION: Allen to write intro text for UCR, explaining how there are different sources of requirements
16:04:23 [rifbot]
Created ACTION-126 - Write intro text for UCR, explaining how there are different sources of requirements [on Allen Ginsberg - due 2006-10-03].
16:05:41 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Allen to distinguish different types of R. for the UC. Analyze the R - then we will see for which R we can be more specific. Propose to people to write a draft fro their UC?
16:06:32 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Any other proposla on how to proceed for this? For now, take UC one by one.
16:06:58 [LeoraMorgenstern]
ok, that's reasonable
16:07:11 [MalaMehrotra]
CW: Leora take a shot at the medical UC and go withthe writing and then have other people take that as a guide if they like it.
16:07:14 [LeoraMorgenstern]
(I somehow managed to disconnect myself from the call, but am still on the IRC)
16:07:27 [sandro]
ack LeoraMorgenstern
16:07:36 [sandro]
zakim, unmute LeoraMorgenstern
16:07:36 [Zakim]
Leora_Morgenstern was not muted, sandro
16:07:38 [LeoraMorgenstern]
I'm here but off the phone
16:07:46 [LeoraMorgenstern]
Anyway, yes, I'll do what Chris asked
16:07:52 [LeoraMorgenstern]
Let me get back onthe call
16:08:13 [csma]
Will you work on the medical UC?
16:08:14 [Zakim]
+Leora_Morgenstern.a
16:08:56 [sandro]
Sandro: is this about adding more details -- like real rules -- or about linking to requirements ?
16:09:33 [MalaMehrotra]
Leora: Will do. Adding more concrete stuff to the rules.
16:09:50 [MalaMehrotra]
Sandro: Do second part without first?
16:10:30 [sandro]
Chris: I think we should leave out specific rules at this point, but if you can address the second half -- maybe at a little detail, but focus showing how it connnects to requirements.
16:10:37 [MalaMehrotra]
CW: Laeave UC without real rules. Make the UC more specific. Add text to add R not covered. Avoid adding specific Rules.
16:10:49 [sandro]
LeoraMorgenstern: I'll probably write the rules, and then cut them out.
16:10:53 [sandro]
+1 concreteness
16:11:10 [MalaMehrotra]
Leora: easier to do with specific rules/ WIll edit it out for the WG though and hold it for the test cases document.
16:11:15 [sandro]
Sandro: hold on to the concrete rules for the test cases document.
16:12:10 [sandro]
LeoraMorgenstern: it's easier for me to add specific rules, but I understand that you don't want the concrete rules in the UCR.
16:12:50 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: By analyzing teh R you can see if teh UC needs to be made more specific.
16:12:59 [Allen]
q+
16:13:30 [sandro]
ACTION? Leora to propose revision to the medical use case, adding links to requrements, with some supporting arguments
16:13:36 [MalaMehrotra]
CW: misunderstood the example being proposed by CSMA
16:13:40 [Allen]
q-
16:14:00 [sandro]
ACTION: Leora to propose revision to the medical use case, adding links to requrements, with some supporting arguments
16:14:00 [rifbot]
Created ACTION-127 - Propose revision to the medical use case, adding links to requrements, with some supporting arguments [on Leora Morgenstern - due 2006-10-03].
16:14:44 [sandro]
csma/ChrisW: adding links to all requirements, with some supporting arguments --- should be done for all requirements/usecases.
16:14:45 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: May not want to be done for UCs. Do for one first. If supporting arguments not convincing then revise some of the UCs.
16:15:05 [sandro]
csma/ChrisW: step 2 -- if that's not convincing, then we need to revise requirements.
16:15:21 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Who wants to do for #2? Francois?
16:15:36 [Francois]
I could ask Paula to do it when she is back.
16:15:50 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Should it ne done by someone who did not write the UC?
16:16:10 [Francois]
I repeat: I could ask Paula to do it when she is back.
16:16:19 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Dave-R? R for UC2?
16:16:41 [sandro]
DaveReynolds: No, I'm not convinced by it, so I can't really do it.
16:16:41 [MalaMehrotra]
Dave: I am not right person for this UC as I am not convinced about it.
16:16:43 [Francois]
+q
16:16:50 [Francois]
q+
16:16:54 [sandro]
ack Francois
16:16:55 [csma]
ack fran
16:16:57 [Francois]
zakim, unmute me.
16:16:57 [Zakim]
Francois was not muted, Francois
16:17:26 [MalaMehrotra]
Francois: Paula could be considered for this.
16:17:41 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: some one who did not wriet it is desirable.
16:17:53 [Francois]
zakm, mute me.
16:17:59 [Francois]
zakim, mute me.
16:17:59 [Zakim]
Francois should now be muted
16:18:00 [MalaMehrotra]
-- action for Paula. Linkl UC2 to R.
16:18:08 [Allen]
zakim, unmute me
16:18:08 [Zakim]
Allen_Ginsberg was not muted, Allen
16:18:12 [MalaMehrotra]
CW: cannot give action to Paula if she is not here.
16:18:25 [Francois]
paula is not on vacation, she is giving a talk.
16:18:35 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Give Francois the actuon to talk to Paula.
16:18:59 [sandro]
zakim, pick a victim.
16:18:59 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Paul_Vincent
16:19:01 [Francois]
Francois has joined #rif
16:19:02 [Zakim]
-pfps
16:19:10 [Francois]
I take the action.
16:19:17 [pfps]
gtg.
16:19:55 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Paul volunteered for next one.
16:19:57 [Zakim]
-AlexKozlenkov
16:19:58 [Francois]
very fine.
16:19:58 [sandro]
ACTION: Francois to talk to Paula about linking UC2 to requirements, adding supporting arguments.
16:19:58 [rifbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Francois
16:20:10 [sandro]
ACTION: Francois to talk to Paula about linking UC2 to requirements, adding supporting arguments.
16:20:10 [rifbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Francois
16:20:12 [csma]
paul, do you take the action for UC 3?
16:20:14 [Francois]
rifbot: I am here!
16:20:31 [sandro]
ACTION: Bry to talk to Paula about linking UC2 to requirements, adding supporting arguments.
16:20:31 [rifbot]
Created ACTION-128 - Talk to Paula about linking UC2 to requirements, adding supporting arguments. [on Fran�ois Bry - due 2006-10-03].
16:20:32 [Francois]
zakim, unmute me.
16:20:32 [Zakim]
Francois should no longer be muted
16:20:58 [Francois]
zakim, mute me.
16:20:58 [Zakim]
Francois should now be muted
16:21:19 [Paul]
Paul is here: can take UC 3 but not my domain :)
16:21:34 [sandro]
ACTION: Paul to talk to Paula about linking UC3 to requirements, adding supporting arguments.
16:21:34 [rifbot]
Created ACTION-129 - Talk to Paula about linking UC3 to requirements, adding supporting arguments. [on Paul Vincent - due 2006-10-03].
16:21:41 [AxelPolleres]
I take use case 10, but I also have to leave.
16:22:07 [sandro]
ACTION: Axel to link UC10 to requirements, adding supporting arguments.
16:22:07 [rifbot]
Created ACTION-130 - Link UC10 to requirements, adding supporting arguments. [on Axel Polleres - due 2006-10-03].
16:22:16 [MalaMehrotra]
csma.UC4 volunteer.
16:22:33 [AxelPolleres]
well, i thought that i am the author of 10???? ;-)
16:22:54 [MalaMehrotra]
Leora: Why am I taking one on medical support if idea is not the author for the UC?
16:23:08 [MalaMehrotra]
csma. No idea is also to show the way for linking.
16:23:50 [AxelPolleres]
let the authors give a try, and then revise byt others... makes most sense imo. anyway need to go, i will see in the minutes
16:23:53 [MalaMehrotra]
Allen: Am I a good candidate for mine?
16:24:04 [Zakim]
-Axel_Polleres
16:24:23 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Allen volunteered for UC3
16:24:23 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has left #rif
16:24:31 [Paul]
Agrreed
16:24:37 [johnhall]
zakim, unmute me
16:24:37 [Zakim]
johnhall should no longer be muted
16:24:48 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Paul to do UC4? Agreed
16:24:51 [sandro]
ACTION: Paul to link UC4 to requirements, adding supporting arguments.
16:24:51 [rifbot]
Created ACTION-131 - Link UC4 to requirements, adding supporting arguments. [on Paul Vincent - due 2006-10-03].
16:24:58 [MalaMehrotra]
John hall: UC5
16:24:59 [sandro]
ACTION: John to link UC5 to requirements, adding supporting arguments.
16:24:59 [rifbot]
Created ACTION-132 - Link UC5 to requirements, adding supporting arguments. [on John Hall - due 2006-10-03].
16:24:59 [johnhall]
zakim, mute me
16:24:59 [Zakim]
johnhall should now be muted
16:25:27 [Zakim]
-csma
16:25:31 [MalaMehrotra]
csma: Leora tool 6.
16:25:43 [MalaMehrotra]
sandro: who got 1?
16:26:17 [MalaMehrotra]
Deborah: Chris John did 1?
16:26:46 [csma]
I am still online?
16:26:49 [johnhall]
Sorry, I have to go - OMG is calling
16:26:58 [Deborah_Nichols]
cmsa, you are still online
16:27:01 [MalaMehrotra]
sandro: not sure who proposed the OWL one originally? Any OWl fans for that?
16:27:04 [Zakim]
-johnhall
16:27:16 [sandro]
zakim, pick a victim
16:27:16 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Sandro
16:27:18 [Zakim]
-igor
16:27:19 [sandro]
zakim, pick a victim
16:27:19 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Sandro
16:27:22 [sandro]
zakim, pick a victim
16:27:22 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Harold
16:27:34 [sandro]
Harold - BPEL
16:27:35 [sandro]
Harold - BPEL
16:27:37 [sandro]
zakim, pick a victim
16:27:37 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Gary_Hallmark
16:27:54 [sandro]
Gary - OWL
16:27:56 [sandro]
zakim, pick a victim
16:27:56 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose GiorgosStoilos
16:28:32 [sandro]
GiorgosStoilos, #8 Vocab Mapping
16:28:46 [MalaMehrotra]
sandro: #8 - Gorgos
16:28:59 [sandro]
ADJOURN
16:28:59 [Zakim]
-Deborah_Nichols
16:29:00 [Zakim]
-Dave_Reynolds
16:29:02 [Zakim]
-Harold
16:29:03 [Zakim]
-StellaMitchell
16:29:04 [Zakim]
-MichaelKifer
16:29:04 [Zakim]
-GiorgosStoilos
16:29:05 [Zakim]
-Leora_Morgenstern.a
16:29:06 [Zakim]
-Leora_Morgenstern
16:29:07 [Zakim]
-MarkusK
16:29:08 [Zakim]
-Francois
16:29:10 [Zakim]
+csma
16:29:12 [Zakim]
-Gary_Hallmark
16:29:14 [Zakim]
-Paul_Vincent
16:30:48 [sandro]
ACTION: Gary to link UC7 to requirements, adding supporting arguments.
16:30:48 [rifbot]
Created ACTION-133 - Link UC7 to requirements, adding supporting arguments. [on Gary Hallmark - due 2006-10-03].
16:30:53 [sandro]
ACTION: Stoilos to link UC8 to requirements, adding supporting arguments.
16:30:53 [rifbot]
Created ACTION-134 - Link UC8 to requirements, adding supporting arguments. [on Giorgos Stoilos - due 2006-10-03].
16:30:57 [sandro]
ACTION: Harold to link UC9 to requirements, adding supporting arguments.
16:30:57 [rifbot]
Created ACTION-135 - Link UC9 to requirements, adding supporting arguments. [on Harold Boley - due 2006-10-03].
16:31:03 [sandro]
RRSAgent, make minutes
16:31:03 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/09/26-rif-minutes.html sandro
16:31:09 [Zakim]
-Allen_Ginsberg
16:31:10 [sandro]
rrsagent, make record public
16:31:11 [DavidHirtle]
DavidHirtle has left #rif
16:31:17 [Zakim]
-DavidHirtle
16:31:42 [sandro]
rrsagent, make record public
16:32:06 [sandro]
Zakim, who is here?
16:32:06 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mala_Mehrotra, ChrisW, Sandro, csma
16:32:07 [Zakim]
On IRC I see AlexKozlenkov, LeoraMorgenstern, sandro, Harold, MalaMehrotra, Zakim, RRSAgent, csma, mdean, MoZ, rifbot
16:32:21 [sandro]
RRSAgent, make minutes
16:32:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/09/26-rif-minutes.html sandro
16:33:25 [MoZ]
sandro and csma, can you investigate why the email i sent a week ago, did not arrive ?
16:34:48 [sandro]
MoZ, can you send me an e-mail at sandro@w3.org, so I can see the mail headers, and I'll take a look.
16:35:46 [MoZ]
sandro, i do it right now
16:35:51 [Zakim]
-Mala_Mehrotra
16:35:56 [Zakim]
-Sandro
16:36:05 [Zakim]
-ChrisW
16:36:08 [Zakim]
-csma
16:36:09 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
16:36:10 [Zakim]
Attendees were Mala_Mehrotra, +1.714.778.aaaa, csma, FrankMcCabe, ChrisW, MarkusK, Harold, igor, Francois, Allen_Ginsberg, Sandro, pfps, AlexKozlenkov, Leora_Morgenstern,
16:36:14 [Zakim]
... Deborah_Nichols, DavidHirtle, Dave_Reynolds, Mike_Dean, StellaMitchell, Axel_Polleres, Gary_Hallmark, GiorgosStoilos, johnhall, MichaelKifer, polo, Paul_Vincent
16:37:06 [MoZ]
sandro, done
16:38:52 [MalaMehrotra]
bye
16:53:15 [csma]
csma has left #rif
18:32:52 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #rif