IRC log of ua on 2006-09-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:32:24 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/09/14-ua-irc
17:32:35 [jallan]
rrsagent, make logs public
17:43:22 [jallan]
regrets: D Poehlman
17:45:23 [jallan]
zakim, this will be wai_u
17:45:23 [Zakim]
ok, jallan; I see WAI_UAWG()2:00PM scheduled to start in 15 minutes
17:46:27 [jallan]
Meeting: WAI UA
17:56:37 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has now started
17:56:43 [Zakim]
+Jim_Allan
17:59:26 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
17:59:59 [parente]
parente has joined #ua
18:00:05 [jallan]
zakim, [IBM] is Pparente
18:00:05 [Zakim]
+Pparente; got it
18:01:07 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
18:01:13 [JR]
JR has joined #ua
18:01:31 [jallan]
zakim, [IBM] is cklaws
18:01:31 [Zakim]
+cklaws; got it
18:01:55 [cklaws]
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18:02:15 [Zakim]
+Jan_Richards
18:02:39 [JR]
scribe: JR
18:05:27 [JR]
JA, CL General comments on how quickly things are moving forward...same prob of people devving new techs not taking into account access
18:05:39 [JR]
Topic: 6.8 API character encodings (P1)
18:06:26 [JR]
JA: my note was just that Unix was missing
18:07:22 [JR]
PP: Everything back from UTSPI in UTF-8
18:07:55 [JR]
PP: Then based on users locale put in appropriate lang
18:08:18 [JR]
PP: IBM speech engine expects unicode in char set it knows about
18:09:48 [jallan]
JR: does this really need to be here. checkpoint just supports the API
18:10:23 [jallan]
cl: get informatoin from DOM or accessibility interface. when you send info to speech engine, you must convert to ascii
18:10:48 [JR]
CL: When getting info out of API and into speech engine etc. a conversion is often required
18:10:54 [jallan]
UA is not helping, AT does all the work
18:11:20 [JR]
PP: If UTF-8 is being sent a locale also must be sent
18:11:40 [JR]
JA: From HTML lang element?
18:11:44 [JR]
CL, PP: No
18:11:53 [JR]
...but not sure from where
18:13:07 [JR]
PP: Discussing with AL yesterday about how to deal with docs made of text in several langs
18:13:52 [JR]
PP: Looking at defaults...
18:14:15 [JR]
...defaukts to ISO-8859 but there is also auto-detect setting
18:14:34 [JR]
CL: AL they get it from HTTP or lang attribute
18:14:53 [JR]
JA: Meta tag?
18:15:00 [JR]
CL: Or doctype?
18:15:10 [JR]
PP: In XML tag as well
18:15:27 [JR]
CL: So yes coming from what author says in web page
18:15:44 [JR]
JA: Checkpoint seems wide open
18:16:14 [JR]
CL: But may want to say something about lang and locale...we should say who benefits...speech engines
18:16:45 [JR]
action CL: Write a bit about speech engines and braille devices needing lang and locale info
18:17:46 [JR]
JA: so 8859 is just latin languages.
18:18:39 [JR]
PP: And yes there are Chinese and Japanese speech engines etc.
18:19:33 [JR]
CL: Just saying browser has to be able to pick up info supplied by author and give it to the ATs
18:20:18 [JR]
PP: Linux ATK tells locale
18:21:07 [JR]
PP: UTF-16 is yet another unicode encoding
18:22:30 [JR]
JA: Are speech engines moving towards additional char set supports?
18:23:45 [JR]
PP: From actual checkpoint, browser has to be able to encode strings in form API wants
18:26:47 [JR]
CL: Browesr could help out by providing the locale
18:27:27 [JR]
Topic: 6.9 DOM access to CSS style sheets (P2)
18:28:02 [JR]
JA: So AL said we can't necessarily do thi.
18:28:36 [JR]
JR: CL's msg: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2006JulSep/0045.html
18:28:53 [JR]
CL: DOM not supposed to worry about presentation info
18:29:17 [JR]
JA: And prob is that CSS allows content to be added
18:30:51 [JR]
JA: Really tied up in AJAX and DHTML
18:31:08 [JR]
JA: Scripting changing style sheets...
18:31:16 [JR]
CL: No solution yet
18:31:55 [JR]
action JA: Follow up on 2 issues with 6.9 - events and content insertion
18:32:22 [JR]
CL: In that conversatrion Rich suggests getting CSS people to look at it
18:33:42 [JR]
JA: At plenary Rich was suggesting a joint meeting on this
18:34:44 [JR]
JA: ALso concerned this is a p2...given the new stuff
18:34:57 [JR]
JA: This stuff is going to be critical
18:35:17 [JR]
Topic: 6.10 Timely exchanges through APIs (P2)
18:36:34 [JR]
JA: HPR have font or colour ability?
18:36:48 [JR]
CL: Possible to get this from native API
18:37:05 [JR]
CL: But today the goal is to get everything via access API
18:37:51 [JR]
JR: My comment is "WHat's timely?" - more of a technique for other checkpoints
18:38:14 [JR]
JA: Yes...rationale just says "play well with others"
18:38:51 [JR]
CL: To us this means providing via an engineered API rather than a text sream.
18:39:29 [JR]
CL: Pref event when things happen rather than having to detect
18:40:29 [jallan]
cl: want api to send semantic information to other API rather than a text string
18:42:16 [jallan]
cl: semantics=content + event + location
18:43:50 [JR]
CL: DOM spec is implemented by browser - that's the engineered API
18:44:04 [jallan]
cl: using DOM spec to design API for each UA, need to have semantics built in to UA implemented API
18:44:22 [JR]
Barry F. says in ATAG 2.0 "accessibility platform architecture(s)"
18:44:24 [JR]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2006/WD-ATAG20-20060629/WD-ATAG20-20060629.html#gl-tool-accessible-atfriendly
18:45:04 [JR]
CL: If following DOM spec then semantics are built in
18:46:32 [JR]
CL: eg. many Windows browsers expose both a DOM and to MSAA
18:47:32 [JR]
CL: Firefox on Linux doesn't expose DOM, but instead exposes via access API
18:48:23 [JR]
CL: Maybe will look at ATAG for possible wording
18:49:46 [JR]
CL: "Timely" would seem to indicate events - otherwise how do you know
18:50:53 [JR]
PP: ex. an instant message system that doesn't notify user of msg right away
18:52:52 [JR]
JR: Maybe some objective limit based on response time research
18:53:13 [JR]
CL: IBM testers were ok with delays of 2-3 seconds
18:54:07 [JR]
JR: Also relates to input
18:54:24 [JR]
CL: Many factors including internet communication etc.
18:54:40 [JR]
JA: Maybe timely is the best word for now?
18:54:54 [JR]
PP: We could provide examples of what not to do
18:56:43 [JR]
action PP: Write up a few examples of situations where an API exchange is too slow
18:57:31 [JR]
JA: Next mtg in 2 wks
18:57:38 [JR]
JA: Will pick up with 7
18:58:38 [JR]
action JA: update review chart and send to list
18:58:49 [Zakim]
-cklaws
18:58:51 [Zakim]
-Pparente
19:00:18 [Zakim]
-Jim_Allan
19:00:20 [Zakim]
-Jan_Richards
19:00:22 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has ended
19:00:23 [Zakim]
Attendees were Jim_Allan, Pparente, cklaws, Jan_Richards
19:00:45 [jallan]
jallan has left #ua
19:15:19 [JR]
RRSAgent, make minutes
19:15:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/09/14-ua-minutes.html JR
19:15:25 [JR]
RRSAgent, set logs public
19:15:33 [JR]
Zakim, bye
19:15:33 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
19:15:56 [JR]
RRSAgent, bye
19:15:56 [RRSAgent]
I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/14-ua-actions.rdf :
19:15:56 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: CL to Write a bit about speech engines and braille devices needing lang and locale info [1]
19:15:56 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/14-ua-irc#T18-16-45
19:15:56 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JA to Follow up on 2 issues with 6.9 - events and content insertion [2]
19:15:56 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/14-ua-irc#T18-31-55
19:15:56 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: PP to Write up a few examples of situations where an API exchange is too slow [3]
19:15:56 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/14-ua-irc#T18-56-43
19:15:56 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JA to update review chart and send to list [4]
19:15:56 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/14-ua-irc#T18-58-38