IRC log of grddl-wg on 2006-09-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:01:10 [RRSAgent]
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15:01:10 [RRSAgent]
logging to
15:01:12 [Zakim]
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15:01:15 [DanC]
Zakim, this is grddl
15:01:15 [Zakim]
ok, DanC; that matches SW_GRDDL()11:00AM
15:01:32 [DanC]
Zakim, read agenda from
15:01:37 [Zakim]
working on it, DanC
15:01:39 [Zakim]
agenda+ Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2006-09-0611:00ET
15:01:41 [Zakim]
agendum 1 added
15:01:47 [Zakim]
agenda+ Discussion of Primer Document
15:01:51 [Zakim]
agendum 2 added
15:01:55 [Zakim]
agenda+ review of Use Cases document, reviewing actions from last meeting
15:01:57 [Zakim]
agendum 3 added
15:01:59 [Zakim]
agenda+ [#issue-base-param], conformance labels, and other GRDDL spec issues
15:02:01 [Zakim]
agendum 4 added
15:02:07 [Zakim]
done reading agenda, DanC
15:02:11 [Zakim]
15:02:19 [ryager]
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15:02:25 [Zakim]
15:02:46 [Zakim]
15:03:10 [hhalpin]
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15:03:27 [hhalpin]
Apologies - phone issues...
15:04:41 [Zakim]
15:04:52 [benadida]
benadida has joined #grddl-wg
15:04:59 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:04:59 [Zakim]
On the phone I see FabienGandon, Rachel_Yager, [IPcaller], DanC, Murray_Maloney
15:05:14 [Zakim]
15:05:17 [DanC]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is BenA
15:05:18 [Zakim]
+BenA; got it
15:05:29 [DanC]
Zakim, ??P24 is hhalpin
15:05:29 [Zakim]
+hhalpin; got it
15:05:38 [DanC]
Zakim, take up item 1
15:05:39 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2006-09-0611:00ET" taken up
15:06:24 [benadida]
zakim, mute me
15:06:24 [Zakim]
sorry, benadida, I do not see a party named 'benadida'
15:06:37 [benadida]
zakim, I am BenA
15:06:37 [Zakim]
ok, benadida, I now associate you with BenA
15:06:42 [benadida]
zakim, mute me
15:06:42 [Zakim]
BenA should now be muted
15:06:55 [DanC]
minutes good enough for me
15:06:59 [Zakim]
15:07:31 [DanC]
Scribe: ryager
15:07:43 [chimezie]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:07:43 [Zakim]
On the phone I see FabienGandon, Rachel_Yager, BenA (muted), DanC, Murray_Maloney, hhalpin, Chimezie_Ogbuji
15:07:51 [ryager]
Resolution - working group minutes
15:07:57 [hhalpin]
RESOLVED: is correct record
15:08:31 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose BenA (muted)
15:08:39 [benadida]
zakim, unmute me
15:08:39 [Zakim]
BenA should no longer be muted
15:08:59 [ryager]
Ben will scribe in 2 weeks
15:09:02 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose hhalpin
15:09:04 [DanC]
DanC is out next week (13 Sep) too.
15:09:08 [Zakim]
15:09:11 [benadida]
zakim, mute me
15:09:11 [Zakim]
BenA should now be muted
15:09:16 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Rachel_Yager
15:09:18 [danja]
ok, that's me
15:09:26 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose FabienGandon
15:09:36 [DanC]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is danja
15:09:36 [Zakim]
+danja; got it
15:09:45 [ryager]
Chimezie will scribe next week
15:10:04 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:10:05 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Discussion of Primer Document" taken up
15:10:36 [Zakim]
15:10:38 [hhalpin]
Ian - are you with us?
15:10:55 [briansuda]
sort of
15:10:59 [DanC]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is briansuda
15:10:59 [Zakim]
+briansuda; got it
15:11:14 [danja]
earlier - "iand may be a few mins late"
15:11:34 [FabienGandon]
Ian's GRDDL Primer:
15:12:29 [Zakim]
15:12:48 [FabienGandon]
Brian's GRDDL Primer:
15:14:46 [ryager]
Ian explain the first case for Primer
15:16:03 [ryager]
Ian asks "how much work involved?"
15:16:43 [ryager]
Introduction and diagram as first draft for Primer by end of Sep.
15:17:31 [ryager]
mention of xhtml?
15:18:23 [ryager]
need to demonstrate for xslt to work.
15:18:52 [ryager]
last example has namespace.
15:19:02 [ryager]
who is tester?
15:19:15 [ryager]
Danny is the tester
15:19:30 [DanC]
ACTION DannyA: test examples from primer
15:21:33 [chimezie]
15:21:33 [ryager]
15:22:28 [ryager]
are we providing a testing tool? Yes.
15:22:44 [DanC]
. ACTION Chime: @@@
15:22:57 [DanC]
-> Re: GRDDL test howto?
15:23:56 [ryager]
Ad-hoc testing needed till next week
15:24:17 [ryager]
creating the microformat is out of scope
15:24:30 [chimezie]
ACTION: Chimezie: Will get a short description of how Triclops can be used for generating diagrams of RDF
15:24:36 [danja]
(microformat validation is a rathole)
15:24:46 [DanC]
. ACTION Chime: make some graphviz/svg/png diagrams of primer RDF <- Chime, do you accept that action?
15:24:54 [chimezie]
15:24:57 [DanC]
oops. you're ahead of me. good.
15:25:07 [ryager]
Brian - presenting the primer
15:25:30 [chimezie]
Dom's email on existing test harness:
15:26:34 [ryager]
Brian writing the SPARQL query
15:27:24 [ryager]
html pages should be well-formatted
15:27:55 [ryager]
preference to use xhtml?
15:28:05 [danja]
(a significant proportion of microformat instance docs aren't XHTML)
15:28:14 [FabienGandon]
+1 to use XHTML everywhere.
15:28:26 [ryager]
transforming the calendar to rdf as the first step?
15:28:27 [briansuda]
danja, they get run through TIDY to make them valid
15:28:36 [DanC]
"about 639,000,000 for XHTML" vs "about 905,000,000 for HTML". hmm... same order of magnitude. interesting. I would have expected HTML to be mentioned 10x as often as XHTML.
15:29:12 [ryager]
first draft to use SPARQL to demonstrate the value of using rdf?
15:30:20 [ryager]
need only 1 primer - 1 use case or 2?
15:32:07 [ryager]
take both from Ian and Brian?
15:32:34 [ryager]
guitar case has no real data
15:32:47 [ryager]
Ian case has real data
15:33:20 [ryager]
extend Ian's work to cover sparql?
15:35:35 [ryager]
Brian and Ian will put together the cases
15:35:50 [hhalpin]
ACTION: Brian and Ian will merge test cases.
15:37:36 [danja]
(briansuda, if you need to use Tidy, is it still grddl?)
15:38:10 [DanC]
(no, most of the microformat services go beyond grddl.)
15:38:18 [hhalpin]
ryager suggests links to use-case.
15:38:34 [hhalpin]
murray suggests a motivaing introduction
15:39:10 [danja]
15:39:26 [ryager]
a paragraph for motivation
15:39:52 [ryager]
Chimezie volunteered for the paragraph
15:40:01 [ryager]
Primer aimed end of Sep
15:40:14 [ryager]
Publication need to be out as required by W3C
15:40:38 [ryager]
Primer and Use case can both meet the target date - Sep
15:40:58 [ryager]
will keep SPARQL section small?
15:41:28 [ryager]
focus on the grddl stuff?
15:41:35 [chimezie]
ACTION: Chimezie will work on a short, motivating introduction for Primer (with segue to use cases)
15:43:04 [ryager]
review use case document now
15:43:08 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:43:08 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "review of Use Cases document, reviewing actions from last meeting" taken up
15:43:12 [hhalpin]
Zakim, next item
15:43:12 [Zakim]
agendum 3 was just opened, hhalpin
15:43:16 [danja]
15:43:28 [FabienGandon]
15:43:35 [DanC]
I see v 1.26
15:44:34 [ryager]
Fabien - explains use case of library
15:45:36 [DanC]
looks ready to ship, to me.
15:45:53 [ryager]
ready for review?
15:46:01 [benadida]
15:46:08 [benadida]
zakim, unmute me
15:46:08 [Zakim]
BenA should no longer be muted
15:47:07 [ryager]
xml schema use case - Ben to write up?
15:48:25 [DanC]
(yeah, I had in mind the latter, Chime)
15:48:41 [ryager]
xml schema as a source to transform?
15:49:13 [ryager]
Ben will send email version of the xml schema use case today - 7th use case.
15:49:23 [DanC]
ACTION:Harry to discuss with BenA and DanC the XML Schema use-case in context of Creative Commons and OAI. See clarification from DanC. [DONE]
15:49:42 [DanC]
ACTION: BenA to draft XML Schema use-case in context of Creative Commons and OAI.
15:50:53 [ryager]
BenA - schedule use case review by tomorrow.
15:51:00 [DanC]
ACTION: BenA to flesh out HTML RDF/A output of GRDDL use cases (i.e. review scheduling use case in detail) [CONTINUES]
15:51:11 [DanC]
ACTION: Fabien to review/reconsider digital library use case [DONE]
15:51:24 [DanC]
ACTION: Fabien to note that "Plus: ... " part of scheduling use case #1 needs work, and ask Ben for help whenever he becomes availble and drop it from the draft meanwhile [DONE]
15:51:37 [ryager]
BenA will proof-read document
15:51:46 [ryager]
Danny too
15:52:02 [hhalpin]
ACTION: BenA will proof-read document
15:52:42 [hhalpin]
ACTION: Danny will proof-read document
15:52:44 [danja]
(note to self: review with go/don't in mind)
15:52:47 [benadida]
zakim, mute me
15:52:47 [Zakim]
BenA should now be muted
15:52:53 [DanC]
ACTION: Harry to review digital library use case [DONE]
15:53:02 [ryager]
review should submit to the email distribtuion list
15:53:07 [DanC]
ACTION: Ryager to read draft thoroughly [CONTINUES]
15:53:24 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:53:24 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "[#issue-base-param], conformance labels, and other GRDDL spec issues" taken up
15:54:52 [ryager]
Ian to help after Primer work?
15:55:37 [danja]
(if test harness work is deferred for a couple of weeks, I can help then too)
15:56:15 [ryager]
not introducing another param?
15:56:32 [DanC]
ACTION: DanC to enumerate options for base issue, pick one, and propose it in the form of a test case. See his suggestion to pass it as a paramter and discussion with Chime over extension functions [CONTINUES]
15:56:51 [ryager]
Everyone agree
15:57:20 [ryager]
Chime introducing conformance label issue
15:57:34 [ryager]
does not address consistent language
15:58:07 [DanC]
Chime on Conformance labels and consistent communication
15:59:14 [ryager]
to commit conformance label?
16:00:11 [ryager]
user agent, processor, grddl document mechanism?
16:01:51 [ryager]
grddl result graph?
16:02:32 [ryager]
should have a consistent vocabulary - chime
16:02:58 [ryager]
rules for replacing?
16:03:35 [ryager]
Chime will go through the use case document to provide the conformance
16:04:04 [ryager]
need a glossary?
16:04:59 [ryager]
Fabien, Chime, Harry - glossary
16:05:17 [hhalpin]
ACTION: Harry to re-read Use Case document
16:05:21 [ryager]
grddl doc and grddl processor only
16:05:45 [FabienGandon]
ACTION: Fabien to review the terminology of the Use Case
16:06:19 [danja]
(/me generally agrees to standard terminology, glossary)
16:06:24 [ryager]
grddl doc = resource doc?
16:06:26 [chimezie]
ACTION: Chimezie to work towards a glossary for consistent terminology and suggest some rewording
16:06:28 [FabienGandon]
Do we want a glossary in the Use Case doc ?
16:06:59 [hhalpin]
ACTION: Murray to send out his take on take on standardized vocabulary
16:08:19 [DanC]
hasta, briansuda
16:08:37 [briansuda]
DanC, i'll catch you in IRC soon
16:08:41 [ryager]
glossary will be included in the use case document.
16:08:49 [ryager]
by next week
16:08:49 [Zakim]
16:09:06 [DanC]
ACTION:Chime to suggest which conformance labels, if any, the GRDDL spec should includ [DONE]
16:09:17 [FabienGandon]
ACTION: Fabien to add a Glossary section in the Use Case Doc
16:10:31 [ryager]
any transformation language?
16:10:43 [ryager]
xslt, xquery etc?
16:11:00 [FabienGandon]
First Mediatype message:
16:12:19 [FabienGandon]
Now, for the more controversial media-type sentence:
16:12:21 [FabienGandon]
"GRDDL can use media types of the transformation resource to detect the what type of language the transformation uses. For example, if in a
16:12:22 [FabienGandon]
XHTML document the link element has an href attribute of "" and this URI returns a document
16:12:24 [FabienGandon]
with a media type of "application/xslt+xml," GRDDL is licensed to run the transformation using XSLT."
16:13:08 [ryager]
appendix to explain what software does?
16:13:44 [DanC]
ACTION DanC: draft an appendix about a sample implementaiton of GRDDL
16:14:01 [ryager]
tabled as issue list
16:14:28 [ryager]
xslt1 as recommendation?
16:15:32 [chimezie]
+1 for SHOULD
16:17:51 [ryager]
Harry provides recommendation text
16:18:07 [DanC]
ACTION:Harry to draft some elaboration on how media types work with GRDDL [CONTINUES]
16:18:30 [DanC]
Topic: GRDDL, XProc, and processing order
16:18:54 [danja]
(/me needs to chase up docs on XSLT 1.0 processor response to XSLT 2.0 transformations, but still +1 to SHOULD for XSLT 1.0)
16:20:11 [ryager]
16:20:22 [DanC]
16:24:15 [DanC]
DanC: it's not obviuos to me what happens if, for example, Harry's calendar has an <xinclude> in it.
16:24:25 [DanC]
... my implementation doesn't do it.
16:24:28 [DanC]
Chime: mine does
16:24:56 [DanC]
Murray: so you've got a pipeline. You can specify that pipeline in the document that represents the transformation algorithm.
16:25:43 [DanC]
iand, see you next time.
16:25:53 [iand]
yep, bye all
16:25:57 [danja]
16:26:01 [Zakim]
16:27:38 [ryager]
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16:28:12 [DanC]
Murray: W3C is working on a standardize XML Processing model language, but we don't need to tie GRDDL to that directly; somebody might use a shell script to specify their pipeline/transformation.
16:28:50 [ryager1]
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16:29:38 [ryager1]
should test the interaction
16:30:03 [ryager1]
who run over the issue list?
16:30:04 [Zakim]
16:30:04 [DanC]
ACTION DanC: add an issue about xinclude an processing order [CONTINUES]
16:30:26 [benadida]
16:30:35 [benadida]
whoops, sorry
16:30:46 [Zakim]
16:30:49 [Zakim]
16:31:02 [danja]
thanks, bye all
16:31:17 [benadida]
benadida has left #grddl-wg
16:31:18 [DanC]
16:31:18 [Zakim]
16:31:23 [Zakim]
16:31:43 [DanC]
RRSAgent, pointer?
16:31:43 [RRSAgent]
16:32:12 [hhalpin]
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16:32:30 [DanC]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:32:30 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate DanC
16:33:28 [ryager1]
16:33:53 [DanC]
Meeting: GRDDL Weekly
16:33:58 [hhalpin]
ACTION: Murray to suggest what GRDDL spec issues are covered by XML Processing, suggestion on how to fix it.
16:34:12 [DanC]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:34:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate DanC
16:34:54 [DanC]
16:34:57 [DanC]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:34:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate DanC
16:35:24 [DanC]
Zakim, list attendees
16:35:24 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been FabienGandon, Rachel_Yager, DanC, Murray_Maloney, BenA, hhalpin, Chimezie_Ogbuji, danja, briansuda, iand
16:35:36 [DanC]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:35:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate DanC
16:36:22 [DanC]
Chair: Harry
16:36:26 [DanC]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:36:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate DanC
16:38:22 [DanC]
yes, if you can lightly edit and send it to , you're done.
16:39:12 [Zakim]
16:39:14 [Zakim]
16:39:15 [Zakim]
16:39:17 [Zakim]
SW_GRDDL()11:00AM has ended
16:39:18 [Zakim]
Attendees were FabienGandon, Rachel_Yager, DanC, Murray_Maloney, BenA, hhalpin, Chimezie_Ogbuji, danja, briansuda, iand
18:37:50 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #grddl-wg
19:06:44 [briansuda]
briansuda has joined #grddl-wg
20:11:26 [danja]
danja has joined #grddl-wg
20:22:28 [briansuda]
briansuda has joined #grddl-wg
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