IRC log of grddl-wg on 2006-09-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:01:10 [RRSAgent]

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15:01:10 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-irc

15:01:12 [Zakim]

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15:01:15 [DanC]

Zakim, this is grddl

15:01:15 [Zakim]

ok, DanC; that matches SW_GRDDL()11:00AM

15:01:32 [DanC]

Zakim, read agenda from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/weekly-agenda

15:01:37 [Zakim]

working on it, DanC

15:01:39 [Zakim]

agenda+ Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2006-09-0611:00ET

15:01:41 [Zakim]

agendum 1 added

15:01:47 [Zakim]

agenda+ Discussion of Primer Document

15:01:51 [Zakim]

agendum 2 added

15:01:55 [Zakim]

agenda+ review of Use Cases document, reviewing actions from last meeting

15:01:57 [Zakim]

agendum 3 added

15:01:59 [Zakim]

agenda+ [#issue-base-param], conformance labels, and other GRDDL spec issues

15:02:01 [Zakim]

agendum 4 added

15:02:07 [Zakim]

done reading agenda, DanC

15:02:11 [Zakim]

+Rachel_Yager

15:02:19 [ryager]

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15:02:25 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

15:02:46 [Zakim]

+DanC

15:03:10 [hhalpin]

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15:03:27 [hhalpin]

Apologies - phone issues...

15:04:41 [Zakim]

+Murray_Maloney

15:04:52 [benadida]

benadida has joined #grddl-wg

15:04:59 [DanC]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

15:04:59 [Zakim]

On the phone I see FabienGandon, Rachel_Yager, [IPcaller], DanC, Murray_Maloney

15:05:14 [Zakim]

+??P24

15:05:17 [DanC]

Zakim, [IPcaller] is BenA

15:05:18 [Zakim]

+BenA; got it

15:05:29 [DanC]

Zakim, ??P24 is hhalpin

15:05:29 [Zakim]

+hhalpin; got it

15:05:38 [DanC]

Zakim, take up item 1

15:05:39 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2006-09-0611:00ET" taken up

15:06:24 [benadida]

zakim, mute me

15:06:24 [Zakim]

sorry, benadida, I do not see a party named 'benadida'

15:06:37 [benadida]

zakim, I am BenA

15:06:37 [Zakim]

ok, benadida, I now associate you with BenA

15:06:42 [benadida]

zakim, mute me

15:06:42 [Zakim]

BenA should now be muted

15:06:55 [DanC]

minutes good enough for me http://www.w3.org/2006/08/30-grddl-wg-minutes

15:06:59 [Zakim]

+Chimezie_Ogbuji

15:07:31 [DanC]

Scribe: ryager

15:07:43 [chimezie]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

15:07:43 [Zakim]

On the phone I see FabienGandon, Rachel_Yager, BenA (muted), DanC, Murray_Maloney, hhalpin, Chimezie_Ogbuji

15:07:51 [ryager]

Resolution - working group minutes

15:07:57 [hhalpin]

RESOLVED: http://www.w3.org/2006/08/30-grddl-wg-minutes is correct record

15:08:31 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose BenA (muted)

15:08:39 [benadida]

zakim, unmute me

15:08:39 [Zakim]

BenA should no longer be muted

15:08:59 [ryager]

Ben will scribe in 2 weeks

15:09:02 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose hhalpin

15:09:04 [DanC]

DanC is out next week (13 Sep) too.

15:09:08 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

15:09:11 [benadida]

zakim, mute me

15:09:11 [Zakim]

BenA should now be muted

15:09:16 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Rachel_Yager

15:09:18 [danja]

ok, that's me

15:09:26 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose FabienGandon

15:09:36 [DanC]

Zakim, [IPcaller] is danja

15:09:36 [Zakim]

+danja; got it

15:09:45 [ryager]

Chimezie will scribe next week

15:10:04 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:10:05 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Discussion of Primer Document" taken up

15:10:36 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

15:10:38 [hhalpin]

Ian - are you with us?

15:10:55 [briansuda]

sort of

15:10:59 [DanC]

Zakim, [IPcaller] is briansuda

15:10:59 [Zakim]

+briansuda; got it

15:11:14 [danja]

earlier - "iand may be a few mins late"

15:11:34 [FabienGandon]

Ian's GRDDL Primer: http://research.talis.com/2006/grddl-wg/primer.html

15:12:29 [Zakim]

+iand

15:12:48 [FabienGandon]

Brian's GRDDL Primer: http://suda.co.uk/sandbox/GRDDL/Primer.htm

15:14:46 [ryager]

Ian explain the first case for Primer

15:16:03 [ryager]

Ian asks "how much work involved?"

15:16:43 [ryager]

Introduction and diagram as first draft for Primer by end of Sep.

15:17:31 [ryager]

mention of xhtml?

15:18:23 [ryager]

need to demonstrate for xslt to work.

15:18:52 [ryager]

last example has namespace.

15:19:02 [ryager]

who is tester?

15:19:15 [ryager]

Danny is the tester

15:19:30 [DanC]

ACTION DannyA: test examples from primer http://research.talis.com/2006/grddl-wg/primer.html

15:21:33 [chimezie]

Triclops

15:21:33 [ryager]

triclops

15:22:28 [ryager]

are we providing a testing tool? Yes.

15:22:44 [DanC]

. ACTION Chime: @@@

15:22:57 [DanC]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2006Aug/0100.html Re: GRDDL test howto?

15:23:56 [ryager]

Ad-hoc testing needed till next week

15:24:17 [ryager]

creating the microformat is out of scope

15:24:30 [chimezie]

ACTION: Chimezie: Will get a short description of how Triclops can be used for generating diagrams of RDF

15:24:36 [danja]

(microformat validation is a rathole)

15:24:46 [DanC]

. ACTION Chime: make some graphviz/svg/png diagrams of primer RDF <- Chime, do you accept that action?

15:24:54 [chimezie]

yes

15:24:57 [DanC]

oops. you're ahead of me. good.

15:25:07 [ryager]

Brian - presenting the primer

15:25:30 [chimezie]

Dom's email on existing test harness: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2006Aug/0100.html

15:26:34 [ryager]

Brian writing the SPARQL query

15:27:24 [ryager]

html pages should be well-formatted

15:27:55 [ryager]

preference to use xhtml?

15:28:05 [danja]

(a significant proportion of microformat instance docs aren't XHTML)

15:28:14 [FabienGandon]

+1 to use XHTML everywhere.

15:28:26 [ryager]

transforming the calendar to rdf as the first step?

15:28:27 [briansuda]

danja, they get run through TIDY to make them valid

15:28:36 [DanC]

"about 639,000,000 for XHTML" vs "about 905,000,000 for HTML". hmm... same order of magnitude. interesting. I would have expected HTML to be mentioned 10x as often as XHTML.

15:29:12 [ryager]

first draft to use SPARQL to demonstrate the value of using rdf?

15:30:20 [ryager]

need only 1 primer - 1 use case or 2?

15:32:07 [ryager]

take both from Ian and Brian?

15:32:34 [ryager]

guitar case has no real data

15:32:47 [ryager]

Ian case has real data

15:33:20 [ryager]

extend Ian's work to cover sparql?

15:35:35 [ryager]

Brian and Ian will put together the cases

15:35:50 [hhalpin]

ACTION: Brian and Ian will merge test cases.

15:37:36 [danja]

(briansuda, if you need to use Tidy, is it still grddl?)

15:38:10 [DanC]

(no, most of the microformat services go beyond grddl.)

15:38:18 [hhalpin]

ryager suggests links to use-case.

15:38:34 [hhalpin]

murray suggests a motivaing introduction

15:39:10 [danja]

(brb)

15:39:26 [ryager]

a paragraph for motivation

15:39:52 [ryager]

Chimezie volunteered for the paragraph

15:40:01 [ryager]

Primer aimed end of Sep

15:40:14 [ryager]

Publication need to be out as required by W3C

15:40:38 [ryager]

Primer and Use case can both meet the target date - Sep

15:40:58 [ryager]

will keep SPARQL section small?

15:41:28 [ryager]

focus on the grddl stuff?

15:41:35 [chimezie]

ACTION: Chimezie will work on a short, motivating introduction for Primer (with segue to use cases)

15:43:04 [ryager]

review use case document now

15:43:08 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:43:08 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "review of Use Cases document, reviewing actions from last meeting" taken up

15:43:12 [hhalpin]

Zakim, next item

15:43:12 [Zakim]

agendum 3 was just opened, hhalpin

15:43:16 [danja]

(back)

15:43:28 [FabienGandon]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc43/scenario-gallery.htm

15:43:35 [DanC]

I see http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc43/scenario-gallery.htm v 1.26

15:44:34 [ryager]

Fabien - explains use case of library

15:45:36 [DanC]

looks ready to ship, to me.

15:45:53 [ryager]

ready for review?

15:46:01 [benadida]

zumm

15:46:08 [benadida]

zakim, unmute me

15:46:08 [Zakim]

BenA should no longer be muted

15:47:07 [ryager]

xml schema use case - Ben to write up?

15:48:25 [DanC]

(yeah, I had in mind the latter, Chime)

15:48:41 [ryager]

xml schema as a source to transform?

15:49:13 [ryager]

Ben will send email version of the xml schema use case today - 7th use case.

15:49:23 [DanC]

ACTION:Harry to discuss with BenA and DanC the XML Schema use-case in context of Creative Commons and OAI. See clarification from DanC. [DONE]

15:49:42 [DanC]

ACTION: BenA to draft XML Schema use-case in context of Creative Commons and OAI.

15:50:53 [ryager]

BenA - schedule use case review by tomorrow.

15:51:00 [DanC]

ACTION: BenA to flesh out HTML RDF/A output of GRDDL use cases (i.e. review scheduling use case in detail) [CONTINUES]

15:51:11 [DanC]

ACTION: Fabien to review/reconsider digital library use case [DONE]

15:51:24 [DanC]

ACTION: Fabien to note that "Plus: ... " part of scheduling use case #1 needs work, and ask Ben for help whenever he becomes availble and drop it from the draft meanwhile [DONE]

15:51:37 [ryager]

BenA will proof-read document

15:51:46 [ryager]

Danny too

15:52:02 [hhalpin]

ACTION: BenA will proof-read document

15:52:42 [hhalpin]

ACTION: Danny will proof-read document

15:52:44 [danja]

(note to self: review with go/don't in mind)

15:52:47 [benadida]

zakim, mute me

15:52:47 [Zakim]

BenA should now be muted

15:52:53 [DanC]

ACTION: Harry to review digital library use case [DONE]

15:53:02 [ryager]

review should submit to the email distribtuion list

15:53:07 [DanC]

ACTION: Ryager to read draft thoroughly [CONTINUES]

15:53:24 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:53:24 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "[#issue-base-param], conformance labels, and other GRDDL spec issues" taken up

15:54:52 [ryager]

Ian to help after Primer work?

15:55:37 [danja]

(if test harness work is deferred for a couple of weeks, I can help then too)

15:56:15 [ryager]

not introducing another param?

15:56:32 [DanC]

ACTION: DanC to enumerate options for base issue, pick one, and propose it in the form of a test case. See his suggestion to pass it as a paramter and discussion with Chime over extension functions [CONTINUES]

15:56:51 [ryager]

Everyone agree

15:57:20 [ryager]

Chime introducing conformance label issue

15:57:34 [ryager]

does not address consistent language

15:58:07 [DanC]

Chime on Conformance labels and consistent communication http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2006Sep/0053.html

15:59:14 [ryager]

to commit conformance label?

16:00:11 [ryager]

user agent, processor, grddl document mechanism?

16:01:51 [ryager]

grddl result graph?

16:02:32 [ryager]

should have a consistent vocabulary - chime

16:02:58 [ryager]

rules for replacing?

16:03:35 [ryager]

Chime will go through the use case document to provide the conformance

16:04:04 [ryager]

need a glossary?

16:04:59 [ryager]

Fabien, Chime, Harry - glossary

16:05:17 [hhalpin]

ACTION: Harry to re-read Use Case document

16:05:21 [ryager]

grddl doc and grddl processor only

16:05:45 [FabienGandon]

ACTION: Fabien to review the terminology of the Use Case

16:06:19 [danja]

(/me generally agrees to standard terminology, glossary)

16:06:24 [ryager]

grddl doc = resource doc?

16:06:26 [chimezie]

ACTION: Chimezie to work towards a glossary for consistent terminology and suggest some rewording

16:06:28 [FabienGandon]

Do we want a glossary in the Use Case doc ?

16:06:59 [hhalpin]

ACTION: Murray to send out his take on take on standardized vocabulary

16:08:19 [DanC]

hasta, briansuda

16:08:37 [briansuda]

DanC, i'll catch you in IRC soon

16:08:41 [ryager]

glossary will be included in the use case document.

16:08:49 [ryager]

by next week

16:08:49 [Zakim]

-briansuda

16:09:06 [DanC]

ACTION:Chime to suggest which conformance labels, if any, the GRDDL spec should includ [DONE]

16:09:17 [FabienGandon]

ACTION: Fabien to add a Glossary section in the Use Case Doc

16:10:31 [ryager]

any transformation language?

16:10:43 [ryager]

xslt, xquery etc?

16:11:00 [FabienGandon]

First Mediatype message: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2006Sep/0020

16:12:19 [FabienGandon]

Now, for the more controversial media-type sentence:

16:12:21 [FabienGandon]

"GRDDL can use media types of the transformation resource to detect the what type of language the transformation uses. For example, if in a

16:12:22 [FabienGandon]

XHTML document the link element has an href attribute of "http://www.example.org/transformation" and this URI returns a document

16:12:24 [FabienGandon]

with a media type of "application/xslt+xml," GRDDL is licensed to run the transformation using XSLT."

16:13:08 [ryager]

appendix to explain what software does?

16:13:44 [DanC]

ACTION DanC: draft an appendix about a sample implementaiton of GRDDL

16:14:01 [ryager]

tabled as issue list

16:14:28 [ryager]

xslt1 as recommendation?

16:15:32 [chimezie]

+1 for SHOULD

16:17:51 [ryager]

Harry provides recommendation text

16:18:07 [DanC]

ACTION:Harry to draft some elaboration on how media types work with GRDDL [CONTINUES]

16:18:30 [DanC]

Topic: GRDDL, XProc, and processing order

16:18:54 [danja]

(/me needs to chase up docs on XSLT 1.0 processor response to XSLT 2.0 transformations, but still +1 to SHOULD for XSLT 1.0)

16:20:11 [ryager]

http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec

16:20:22 [DanC]

http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec#implExp

16:24:15 [DanC]

DanC: it's not obviuos to me what happens if, for example, Harry's calendar has an <xinclude> in it.

16:24:25 [DanC]

... my implementation doesn't do it.

16:24:28 [DanC]

Chime: mine does

16:24:56 [DanC]

Murray: so you've got a pipeline. You can specify that pipeline in the document that represents the transformation algorithm.

16:25:43 [DanC]

iand, see you next time.

16:25:53 [iand]

yep, bye all

16:25:57 [danja]

bye

16:26:01 [Zakim]

-iand

16:27:38 [ryager]

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16:28:12 [DanC]

Murray: W3C is working on a standardize XML Processing model language, but we don't need to tie GRDDL to that directly; somebody might use a shell script to specify their pipeline/transformation.

16:28:50 [ryager1]

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16:29:38 [ryager1]

should test the interaction

16:30:03 [ryager1]

who run over the issue list?

16:30:04 [Zakim]

-Chimezie_Ogbuji

16:30:04 [DanC]

ACTION DanC: add an issue about xinclude an processing order [CONTINUES]

16:30:26 [benadida]

zumm

16:30:35 [benadida]

whoops, sorry

16:30:46 [Zakim]

-Murray_Maloney

16:30:49 [Zakim]

-danja

16:31:02 [danja]

thanks, bye all

16:31:17 [benadida]

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16:31:18 [DanC]

ADJOURN.

16:31:18 [Zakim]

-FabienGandon

16:31:23 [Zakim]

-BenA

16:31:43 [DanC]

RRSAgent, pointer?

16:31:43 [RRSAgent]

See http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-irc#T16-31-43

16:32:12 [hhalpin]

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16:32:30 [DanC]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

16:32:30 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html DanC

16:33:28 [ryager1]

http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-irc#T16-31-43

16:33:53 [DanC]

Meeting: GRDDL Weekly

16:33:58 [hhalpin]

ACTION: Murray to suggest what GRDDL spec issues are covered by XML Processing, suggestion on how to fix it.

16:34:12 [DanC]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

16:34:12 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html DanC

16:34:54 [DanC]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2006Sep/0015.html

16:34:57 [DanC]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

16:34:57 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html DanC

16:35:24 [DanC]

Zakim, list attendees

16:35:24 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been FabienGandon, Rachel_Yager, DanC, Murray_Maloney, BenA, hhalpin, Chimezie_Ogbuji, danja, briansuda, iand

16:35:36 [DanC]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

16:35:36 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html DanC

16:36:22 [DanC]

Chair: Harry

16:36:26 [DanC]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

16:36:26 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html DanC

16:38:22 [DanC]

yes, if you can lightly edit http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html and send it to public-grdd-wg@w3.org , you're done.

16:39:12 [Zakim]

-hhalpin

16:39:14 [Zakim]

-DanC

16:39:15 [Zakim]

-Rachel_Yager

16:39:17 [Zakim]

SW_GRDDL()11:00AM has ended

16:39:18 [Zakim]

Attendees were FabienGandon, Rachel_Yager, DanC, Murray_Maloney, BenA, hhalpin, Chimezie_Ogbuji, danja, briansuda, iand

18:37:50 [Zakim]

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