12:05:33 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tsdtf
12:05:33 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/09/05-tsdtf-irc
12:05:38 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #tsdtf
12:05:48 <shadi> zakim, this will be TSD TF
12:05:48 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, shadi
12:05:53 <shadi> zakim, this will be TSD
12:05:53 <Zakim> ok, shadi; I see WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM scheduled to start in 25 minutes
12:06:02 <shadi> meeting: TSD TF
12:06:31 <shadi> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2006Sep/0001.html
12:06:46 <shadi> agenda+ Follow-up review of integration tools and CVS
12:06:55 <shadi> agenda+ Follow-up review of TCDL
12:07:05 <shadi> agenda+ Start of test production phase
12:07:23 <shadi> chair: CarlosV, Christophe
12:21:26 <Vangelis> Vangelis has joined #tsdtf
12:24:40 <Christophe> Christophe has joined #tsdtf
12:27:07 <CarlosI> CarlosI has joined #tsdtf
12:29:31 <Sandor> Sandor has joined #tsdtf
12:29:43 <Zakim> WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has now started
12:29:44 <Zakim> +Shadi
12:30:52 <ChrisR> ChrisR has joined #tsdtf
12:31:07 <Zakim> +??P1
12:31:08 <Zakim> -??P1
12:31:09 <Zakim> +??P1
12:31:35 <shadi> zakim, ? is really CarlosI
12:31:35 <Zakim> +CarlosI; got it
12:31:39 <Zakim> +Sandor_Herramhof
12:32:17 <Zakim> +Vangelis
12:32:48 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
12:33:11 <shadi> zakim, ipcaller is really Chris
12:33:11 <Zakim> +Chris; got it
12:34:45 <carlos> carlos has joined #tsdtf
12:35:42 <Zakim> +Johannes
12:36:40 <carlos> Zakim, Johannes is really CarlosV
12:36:40 <Zakim> +CarlosV; got it
12:37:08 <Tim> Tim has joined #tsdtf
12:37:22 <Zakim> +Tim_Boland
12:38:47 <shadi> regrets: Shane
12:39:02 <shadi> scribe: Tim
12:39:06 <shadi> scribenick: Tim
12:40:13 <Zakim> +Christophe
12:40:31 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 1
12:40:31 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Follow-up review of integration tools and CVS" taken up [from shadi]
12:41:43 <Tim> CV: replicate structure from BentoWeb or not? 
12:42:04 <Michael> Michael has joined #tsdtf
12:42:14 <Tim> CV: name of technology missing from top-level structure?
12:42:14 <Zakim> +Cooper
12:43:03 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2006Aug/0040.html
12:43:09 <Tim> CV: we have XHTML currently, but what about other technologies?
12:43:59 <Tim> CS: what is argument for organizing by SCs?
12:44:27 <Tim> SAZ: Understanding WCAG2.0 document structured by SC..
12:45:15 <Tim> ..two ways of grouping (1) by technologies, or (2) by SC
12:45:59 <Tim> CV: can filter anyway by metadata
12:46:33 <Tim> SAZ: doesn't feel strongly one way or another, but OK if currently structured by technology
12:47:26 <Tim> MC: no strong feelings, just so long as metadata contains relevant information, basic organization doesn't matter.. 
12:48:30 <Tim> CS: in BentoWeb, metadata not big XML file, but file for each test case 
12:48:58 <Tim> CV: could metadata file have different name from test file?
12:49:20 <Tim> SAZ: What about file extensions?
12:49:35 <Tim> CV:  depend on technology..
12:50:15 <Tim> SAZ: What about granularity (spread out resources)?
12:50:38 <Tim> CV: has to do with server issues
12:51:35 <Tim> SAZ: now explained that tests grouped by technologies, so there isn't a large
12:51:48 <Tim> group of them, makes sense..
12:52:33 <Tim> CV: test files can be reused for different SCs/techniques, so need to enforce naming conventions
12:53:11 <Tim> CV: agree on structure for now..  close topic?
12:53:44 <Tim> Resolution: agree to accept naming convention and directory structure from BentoWeb 
12:54:59 <Tim> CV: clarification to group tests by main technology..
12:56:15 <Tim> CS: also we will use newer version of naming convention  
12:57:14 <shadi> zakim, close agendum 1
12:57:14 <Zakim> agendum 1, Follow-up review of integration tools and CVS, closed
12:57:15 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
12:57:17 <Zakim> 2. Follow-up review of TCDL [from shadi]
12:57:18 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 2
12:57:18 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Follow-up review of TCDL" taken up [from shadi]
12:58:04 <Tim> CV: new draft of TCDL with example sent, so far no comments
12:58:57 <Tim> CS: ruleset description not included, also want to add description of language called RuleSetXML
13:00:28 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2006Aug/att-0046/BenToWeb_TCDL_W3C_Submission_DraftD.html
13:00:30 <Tim> CS:  current format too verbose or descriptive, that's why example added to use only required attributes and elements   
13:01:23 <Tim> CV: what do others (besides BenToWeb) think of document?
13:01:41 <Tim> CR: looks good to me (haven't gone over it in detail)
13:02:12 <Tim> SAZ: discussion on mailing list re: disabilities section - any follow-up?
13:02:26 <Tim> CS: requires a lot of changes
13:03:24 <Tim> CV: issue is how to define disability types, not feasible to incorporate right now 
13:04:27 <Tim> CV: do we accept current version of TCDL as current description?
13:05:03 <Tim> CI:plans to incorporate whole TCDL language or subset of it?
13:05:40 <Tim> CS: TCDL has many optional sections, so use all of it is quite a lot of work, so don't
13:05:52 <Tim> need to subset it if don't use options
13:06:33 <Tim> CI: If we want to use it for WCAG, need to subset it.. 
13:07:08 <Tim> CS: questions are validation process used in test suite itself..
13:07:37 <Tim> CI: haven't discussed problems separating accessibility and other issues,
13:08:03 <Tim> not in scope of this task force.. will WCAG WG work on this issue?
13:08:33 <Tim> CV: related to how we validate it, since we need user feedback 
13:09:01 <Tim> CI: are we going to define WCAG questions?
13:09:32 <Tim> CV: we're just talking about test cases - different issue
13:10:15 <Tim> we decide we need feedback from users 
13:11:01 <Tim> CI: we're going to confuse people asking for schema related to WCAG2?..
13:11:30 <Tim> need to just cover use cases - just use subset?
13:12:07 <Tim> CI: example, "test case mode" define "one expert" - what kind of expert - needs to go
13:12:18 <Tim> through WCAG WG?
13:12:39 <Tim> CS: it's how we in task force review test cases
13:13:29 <Tim> SAZ: how is test case evaluated, or how test case is developed?
13:14:00 <Tim> SAZ: Only take vocabulary we need, don't take BenToWeb specific info..
13:14:14 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2006Aug/att-0046/TCDL_TSDTF_sc3.1.1_l1_001.xml
13:14:24 <Tim> we may need to look at other elements to consider adoption?
13:14:58 <Tim> SAZ: may look at CS's minimal example, and then start looking to add to that to match our needs  
13:15:34 <Tim> SAZ: description and purpose should come from WCAG in this example - maybe need smaller language?
13:16:17 <Tim> CS: description - description of test materials and purpose - purpose of test itself
13:16:59 <Tim> CV: per test case, for every technique there would be many test cases
13:17:12 <Tim> SAZ: where is mapping to WCAG SC?
13:17:20 <Tim> CS: In rule section
13:18:26 <Tim> SAZ: start by minimal example, and then add to it (taking from TCDL) - another approach?
13:19:07 <Tim> SAZ: goal is minimal set of vocabulary that can describe our tests, we're opening up too many questions?
13:19:28 <Tim> .. opening up scope of task force?
13:20:17 <Tim> CV: we should be careful in reviewing/disregarding elements, "test mode" is relevant element
13:20:55 <Tim> SAZ: BenToWeb person to send examples of metadata?
13:21:05 <Tim> CV: Sure, they're on line..
13:21:13 <Tim> SAZ: maybe some smaller examples?
13:21:45 <Tim> CS: the example provided is from scratch, and could be real
13:22:51 <Tim> CV: ask eveyone to review in detail, and comment on mailing list, to streamline TCDL,
13:22:58 <Tim> by next week
13:23:41 <Tim> SAZ: Can people spend more time reviewing this in detail this week? - answer is yes
13:25:00 <Tim> Action: non-BenToWeb people to review current draft 
13:25:31 <Tim> Action: CS to complete current draft with missing sections
13:26:11 <shadi> zakim, close agendum 2
13:26:11 <Zakim> agendum 2, Follow-up review of TCDL, closed
13:26:12 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
13:26:13 <Zakim> 3. Start of test production phase [from shadi]
13:26:27 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 3
13:26:27 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Start of test production phase" taken up [from shadi]
13:26:44 <Tim> CV: wait for next week for producing minor examples
13:27:12 <Tim> CV: 1-2 weeks finish up new version of test cases - maybe task force can 
13:27:17 <Tim> review them?
13:28:18 <Tim> CV: maybe can review what is public from BenToWeb? - starting point
13:29:02 <Tim> SAZ: makes sense - close several test samples this way, and test our structure and metadata, and process within task force
13:29:40 <Tim> CV: in two weeks can have some examples ready
13:29:49 <Tim> SAZ: next week finalize TDCL
13:30:05 <Zakim> -Christophe
13:30:07 <Zakim> -Shadi
13:30:10 <Zakim> -Chris
13:30:12 <Zakim> -Cooper
13:30:13 <Zakim> -Sandor_Herramhof
13:30:13 <Zakim> -CarlosV
13:30:17 <Zakim> -CarlosI
13:30:19 <Zakim> -Tim_Boland
13:30:43 <Vangelis> Vangelis has left #tsdtf
13:30:46 <Sandor> Sandor has left #tsdtf
13:34:54 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:34:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see Vangelis
13:35:06 <shadi> zakim, drop vangelis
13:35:06 <Zakim> Vangelis is being disconnected
13:35:07 <Zakim> WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has ended
13:35:08 <Zakim> Attendees were Shadi, CarlosI, Sandor_Herramhof, Vangelis, Chris, CarlosV, Tim_Boland, Christophe, Cooper
13:35:11 <shadi> zakim, bye
13:35:12 <Zakim> Zakim has left #tsdtf
13:35:20 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
13:35:24 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
13:35:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/09/05-tsdtf-minutes.html shadi
13:35:25 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
13:35:30 <shadi> rrsagent,  bye
13:35:30 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/05-tsdtf-actions.rdf :
13:35:30 <RRSAgent> ACTION: non-BenToWeb people to review current draft  [1]
13:35:30 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/05-tsdtf-irc#T13-25-00
13:35:30 <RRSAgent> ACTION: CS to complete current draft with missing sections [2]
13:35:30 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/05-tsdtf-irc#T13-25-31