07:44:10 RRSAgent has joined #webcgm 07:44:11 logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/08/23-webcgm-irc 07:44:12 RRSAgent, make logs public 07:44:12 Zakim has joined #webcgm 07:44:14 Zakim, this will be WebCGM 07:44:14 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, trackbot 07:44:15 Meeting: WebCGM WG Teleconference 07:44:15 Date: 23 August 2006 07:44:48 lofton has joined #webcgm 07:44:56 Meeting: WebCGM WG f2f, Cologne 07:45:21 Chair: Lofton 07:46:03 dc has joined #webcgm 07:46:28 Scribe: Dave 07:46:35 Scribenick: dc 07:47:11 Scribes chosen for Session 1-6: Dave, Don, Benoit, Thierry, Chris, Stuart 07:47:20 BB has joined #webcgm 07:47:43 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/WebCGM/Group/2006/f2f-Cologne/Overview.html 07:47:58 don has joined #webcgm 07:48:48 Topic: Welcome, Logistics, Week's events, Review agenda 07:49:33 Topic: Review Goals 07:49:34 Stuart has joined #webcgm 07:49:52 The goals sound good to me 07:50:19 LC= Last Call. CR = Candidate Recommendation 07:51:12 finalize LC processing 07:51:24 schedule CR spec production 07:51:34 finalize agreement on CR exit criteria 07:51:45 look at implementations and test suites 07:51:56 plan & agree CR/PR schedules 07:51:57 thierry has joined #webcgm 07:52:07 (start) prepare CR transition materials 07:53:01 Webnesday afternoon we will have a telecon with the inplementers not present 07:53:16 Topic: Last Call processing 07:53:44 I reminded WAIPF about an outstanding review 07:53:45 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcgm-wg/2006Aug/0048.html 07:54:02 Disposition of comments for WebCGM 2.0 Last Call 07:54:14 http://www.w3.org/2006/07/03/WebCGM2-LastCallResponses.html 07:56:59 All last call comments received to date have been resolved 07:57:30 May still get comments from WAIPF 07:58:52 but as we move to CR processing we have a choice of how we deal with them 08:00:33 two loose ends from internal discussions 08:00:54 1. namespace defintion 08:01:19 2. Benoit's rewording of highlight description 08:04:28 namespace URI comment url 08:04:31 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcgm-wg/2006Aug/0038.html 08:13:30 System identfiercurrently in WebCGM 2.0 08:13:41 http://docs.oasis-open.org/webcgm/v2.0/webcgm20.dtd 08:14:51 We seem to be ok to keep the URI the same 08:15:32 We seem to be ok to keep the Public and System identifier the same 08:16:12 The dereference document should reflect the doublicity of the specification with both W3C and OASIS 08:17:08 Action: Chris to communicate with directory with namespace uri and identifiers 08:17:08 Created ACTION-8 - Communicate with directory with namespace uri and identifiers [on Chris Lilley - due 2006-08-30]. 08:19:18 s/directory/Director/ 08:20:35 current NS URI: http://www.cgmopen.org/schema/webcgm/ 08:20:42 Resolution: adopt WebCGM namespace for all versions of 2 08:20:57 s/2// 08:23:06 Namespace URI discussion complete 08:23:55 Highlight method clarification original post 08:24:04 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcgm-wg/2006Aug/0001.html 08:24:23 Benoit's proposal 08:24:45 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcgm-wg/2006Aug/0044.html 08:26:09 BB - focus on object behavior to resolve this question 08:34:29 BB - if you highlight an object, does the highlight propagate to children objects? 08:49:53 WebCGM 2.0 reference: 08:49:56 http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-webcgm20-20060623/WebCGM20-IC.html#webcgm_3_1_2_4 08:50:28 void highlight(in WebCGMNodeList nodes, 08:50:28 in boolean state); 08:50:47 void highlight(in WebCGMNodeList nodes) 08:50:57 void clearHilight() 08:52:54 replace the first one (from the spec) with the two methods. one to add hilighting and one to clear it all 08:54:11 perhaps change the method name to addHilight 08:54:26 This makes the DOMmatch the object behaviors 08:54:40 Currently the DOM doesn't match the description of the object behaviors 08:57:50 Agreed that when an object is highlighted, all of it's children highlight 08:58:10 Resolution: Acept Chris' proposal 09:00:34 Action: Editor to revise the document and the IDL 09:00:34 Sorry, couldn't find user - Editor 09:01:23 Action: Lofton to revise the document and the IDL 09:01:24 Created ACTION-9 - Revise the document and the IDL [on Lofton Henderson - due 2006-08-30]. 09:02:12 Action: Stuart to update the highlight test in the TS to reflect this decision 09:02:12 Created ACTION-10 - Update the highlight test in the TS to reflect this decision [on Stuart Galt - due 2006-08-30]. 09:04:03 (....morning break....) 09:04:12 highlight behavior discussion compete 09:04:53 s/compete/complete/ 09:37:41 Topic: Begin CR discusions 09:38:03 thierry has joined #webcgm 09:38:30 lofton has joined #webcgm 09:47:20 krzysztof has joined #webcgm 09:49:54 item left over from first previous topic 09:50:45 Should we process an erratum to deal with changes to URI/IRI for WebCGM 1.0? 09:51:49 Chris - this is probably a good idea 09:51:55 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/WebCGM-19990121-errata 09:52:55 sorry, thats the fe 09:52:56 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/WebCGM-20011217-errata 09:53:32 http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-WebCGM/ 09:54:42 Action: Lofton to produce produce the 1.0 erratum for URI/IRI clarification and circulate to Wg 09:54:42 Created ACTION-11 - Produce produce the 1.0 erratum for URI/IRI clarification and circulate to Wg [on Lofton Henderson - due 2006-08-30]. 09:54:52 s/Wg/WG 09:55:26 Topic: Begin CR discusions 09:56:13 Timeline for CR Draft 09:57:40 thierry - need a minimum data for exiting CR to put into the Status of This Document (SOTD) 09:57:59 s/data/date 09:58:38 tmichel has joined #webcgm 09:58:43 WebCGM 2.0 CR version cover page. 09:58:43 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/WebCGM/drafts/thierry-editor/overview.html 10:07:42 Zakim has left #webcgm 10:08:12 Zakim has joined #webcgm 10:08:24 zakim, remind me in 9 hours 10:08:24 ok, Chris 10:10:11 We will need to pass a resolution in the WG if we want to transition to CR 10:10:53 At that point we will need a conference with the director for approval to publist the CR 10:11:20 This conference requires a 1 week lead time 10:13:26 Best case - we have a Friday resolution and the document ready to go at that time 10:15:47 Best case conference with director would be Tuesday September 5 10:16:13 One month duration would be October 5 10:18:02 Before entering CR we would need a draft implementation report 10:19:32 Transition requiements for CR 10:19:37 http://www.w3.org/2005/08/transition?docstatus=cr-tr 11:42:34 dc has joined #webcgm 11:46:26 *dc test 11:50:54 Stuart has joined #webcgm 11:58:31 From SVG spec: 11:58:33 When two line segments meet at a sharp angle and miter joins have been specified for 'stroke-linejoin' , it is possible for the miter to extend far beyond the thickness of the line stroking the path. The 'stroke-miterlimit' imposes a limit on the ratio of the miter length to the 'stroke-width' . When the limit is exceeded, the join must be converted from a miter to a bevel. 11:58:49 11:58:49 The limit on the ratio of the miter length to the 'stroke-width' . The value of must be a number greater than or equal to 1. Any other value shall be treated as unsupported and processed as if the property had not been specified. 11:58:50 The ratio of miter length (distance between the outer tip and the inner corner of the miter) to 'stroke-width' is directly related to the angle (theta) between the segments in user space by the formula: 11:58:50 miterLength / stroke-width = 1 / sin ( theta / 2 ) 11:58:51 For example, a miter limit of 1.414 converts miters to bevels for theta less than 90 degrees, a limit of 4.0 converts them for theta less than approximately 29 degrees, and a limit of 10.0 converts them for theta less than approximately 11.5 degrees. 11:58:56 http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/painting.html#StrokeMiterlimitProperty 11:59:49 BB has joined #webcgm 12:09:20 Topic: Initial telecon with implementors 12:12:23 Pass all tests exept 6 tests: 12:13:34 Interested in 2.0 test suite result, but we are now interest into 1.0 tes 12:14:11 linecap 1 and 2, linejoin 12:14:15 miter limit 12:14:22 2 pattern tests 12:14:39 sizing of the pattern is not correct 12:15:07 everyone seems to pass the values tomicrosoft gdi so they do not get the correct result 12:17:59 6 probllematic tests: 12:19:32 The old 1.0 static founctionalities are the one that could raise issues. We are OK with the 2.0 tests 12:19:58 Lofton: Can you send more info when you have more results ? 12:20:22 SVG has some animated miterlimit tests 12:20:23 animate-elem-35-t 12:20:31 file://localhost/E:/cygwin/home/Chris/W3C/WWW/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.1/htmlObjectHarness/full-animate-elem-35-t.html 12:20:42 Probably by tomorrow. 12:22:24 Oric: Will send the result tomorow: 12:24:34 Lofton: For the schedule we are thinking about a 30 day CR phase beginning sept 5th, ending Oct 5th 12:25:04 Lofton: Any adjustement we need to do in this time frame 12:26:16 Lofton we are already covered on the 2.0 tests 12:29:27 Dave: we have a problem on the following funct - InterpollatedInterior 12:29:41 Oric: We do not support this funct yet 12:31:12 Dave : It does work in our 1.0 implementation. 12:31:13 Larson 2.0 viewer uses OpenGL for rendering 12:32:15 Don: But not as good in our 2.0 viewer 12:32:41 lofton has joined #webcgm 12:33:30 Oric will send an Implementation to Chris and Lofton tomorrow 12:35:30 s/Oric/Ulrich/g 12:39:59 Ulrich has now left the telecon. 12:52:43 Topic: CR exit criteria review 12:55:23 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcgm-wg/2006Jul/0084.html 12:57:45 Lofton: we could change the profile, losen for 1.0 functionalities that are issues 12:58:28 Chris: We can mention in the CR draft that these funct are at risk. 12:59:27 Don: We are going to stuff we have resolved a long time ago 12:59:51 Don: The DOM is THE objective 13:00:47 Don: Each vendor want to have a good static capabilities, but vendors really want to focus on a DOM 13:01:32 Chris: You can say it is required, if it is not correctly implemented 13:02:23 Lofton: We are not going to remove a 1.0 implementation because we do not have two perfert implementation 13:03:36 Chris: it is better to say in the Profile that it is optional than to have diffrent rendering in different viewers 13:04:59 Chris: we could have also some authoring guidelines 13:05:21 Benoit: Would be happy with relaxing the profile 13:05:58 Don: We could implement the Minorlimit 13:07:06 Don: we are 2 implementations; one for static and a new one handling Dynamic 13:07:47 Don: the real interoperability should be the DOM 13:08:31 Benoit: If chris says the only way is to change the profile, I am fine with that 13:09:43 Chris: W3C should probably have a sort of QA phase were we could use much more tests to test implementations 13:10:42 Chris: These would not be substantive changes, needing another Last Call 13:13:57 Lofton: to pass the patern tests we should have the size optional ? 13:14:44 Don: The gradient in the Interpolated Interior is the issue we have 13:15:18 Lofton: Need to be clear on which tests we have problems with 13:15:50 Lofton: Either two passes on each tests or downgrade the feature 13:19:20 Lofton: the feature at risk wil be the Interpolated Interior 13:19:41 Benoit: The Minor limit we could have that done in our implementation. 13:20:38 Benoit: If we have time we should look at the impact on the profile 13:21:01 Benoit: I was thinking about Minor limit, to to say so in the profile 13:22:02 Benoit: there is also an internal issue raised by Ulrich (Benoit will repport about that) 13:27:17 esolution: the candidate feature at risk are the pattern size aspect of deniable patterns and the performance requirements for Minor limit 13:27:31 Resolution: the candidate feature at risk are the pattern size aspect of deniable patterns and the performance requirements for Minor limit 13:28:39 Lofton: the feature Interpolated Interior is covered by the Larson 1.0 Implementation, so we are OK with this one 13:29:10 Benoit: we are pretty good on Unicode 13:42:04 Lofton: In the Test suite, there are 7 tests that are Chinese and Japanese, where two are IRI tests using Unicode caracters 14:27:25 Dieter : Pattern size - It is cearly a bug. We will fix it. 14:28:08 Dieter: Minor limit: We think we pass this test. 14:29:08 Chris: It depends if you are implementing a converter or a viewer 14:30:29 Dieter: It is only a screen issue but it is correctly printed on a PS printer 14:31:14 Dieter: actually a screen performance issue. 14:34:24 Dieter is fine with the DOM change about highlight resolution discussed this morning 14:36:59 Benoit: we would be inrested in a flash object method 14:37:36 Lofton: that would be for 2.1 ... 14:38:08 Lofton: we have preliminary features for 2.1 and 3.0 14:38:48 Dieter: I would like to make sure this can be added latter on 14:46:09 dc has joined #webcgm 14:49:00 Lofton: At this point I would like to have the minimum changes, this is the case for the highlight methodFlashing 14:49:46 Don: I would also like to wait before adding it. It may be tight to other features 14:51:56 Dieter: We could replace true/flase with flash On/off in the clear hightlight method 14:54:13 CHris: instead or True/false we could use a numeric value, allowing to add another value latter on, not a bolean value. 14:54:30 Dieter: Yes that is a good suggestion 14:55:12 Lofton: Sounds fine with me. 14:56:26 Resolution: second parameter is called behavior, and the value is add 14:59:46 topic: (continue) CR process discussions 15:00:26 Lofton: will exit CR on 5th October 15:05:23 Lofton: This should allow to more to PR by end of October 15:06:22 Thierry: yes before Ac meeting in November. it would be usefull to advertize during the AC meeting wehere all AC Reps are present 15:07:33 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/WebCGM/drafts/thierry-editor/overview.html 15:08:14 lofton has joined #webcgm 15:08:21 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/WebCGM/drafts/thierry-editor/overview.html 15:14:56 s/Minor limit/mitor limit/g 15:17:44 s/mitor limit/miter limit/g 15:29:02 Thierry: The Cover page is ready. It does incorporate the publication date on sept 05. Ending CR date on oct 5th 15:29:39 Thierry : SOTD includes the exit criteria adopted by the WG and 3 features at risk 15:30:12 features at risk are : Pattern size aspect of definable patterns, Performance requirements for Miter limit., Text on a path 15:30:37 The cover page also fulfills the pubrules 15:31:00 Thierry: Lofton needs to copy and paste it into the CR draft 15:36:18 meeting ajourned 15:36:48 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:36:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/08/23-webcgm-minutes.html thierry