IRC log of ws-policy on 2006-08-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:42:11 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ws-policy
15:42:11 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-ws-policy-irc
15:42:13 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
15:42:13 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ws-policy
15:42:15 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be Policy
15:42:15 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WS_Policy()12:00PM scheduled to start in 18 minutes
15:42:16 [trackbot]
Meeting: WS Policy WG Teleconference
15:42:16 [trackbot]
Date: 16 August 2006
15:42:41 [cferris]
chair: cferris
15:50:32 [mlittle]
mlittle has joined #ws-policy
15:53:06 [abbie]
abbie has joined #ws-policy
15:53:10 [Zakim]
WS_Policy()12:00PM has now started
15:53:17 [Zakim]
+Charlton_Barreto
15:53:44 [cferris]
cferris has joined #ws-policy
15:53:59 [cferris]
zakim, please read agenda from http://whatfettle.com/2006/07/RDFAgenda/http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Aug/0104.html
15:53:59 [Zakim]
working on it, cferris
15:54:02 [Zakim]
agenda+ Roll call and selection of secretary, Chair
15:54:03 [Zakim]
agendum 1 added
15:54:05 [Zakim]
agenda+ Review and approval of telcon minutes, Chair
15:54:08 [Zakim]
agendum 2 added
15:54:09 [Zakim]
agenda+ Future WG meetings, Chair
15:54:10 [Zakim]
agendum 3 added
15:54:11 [Zakim]
agenda+ Working Group drafts, Chair
15:54:12 [Zakim]
agendum 4 added
15:54:13 [Zakim]
agenda+ Review action items, Chair
15:54:14 [Zakim]
agendum 5 added
15:54:15 [Zakim]
agenda+ Detailed review of current drafts
15:54:16 [Zakim]
agendum 6 added
15:54:17 [Zakim]
agenda+ Editorial and wording changing issues (30 minutes)
15:54:20 [Zakim]
agendum 7 added
15:54:21 [Zakim]
agenda+ Minor Technical Issues (30 minutes)
15:54:23 [Zakim]
agendum 8 added
15:54:25 [Zakim]
agenda+ Major Technical Issues (30 minutes)
15:54:27 [Zakim]
agendum 9 added
15:54:29 [Zakim]
agenda+ New issues (since Aug 7)
15:54:31 [Zakim]
agendum 10 added
15:54:33 [Zakim]
agenda+ Any other business
15:54:33 [FrederickHirsch]
FrederickHirsch has joined #ws-policy
15:54:35 [Zakim]
agendum 11 added
15:54:37 [Zakim]
done reading agenda, cferris
15:54:37 [Fabian]
Fabian has joined #ws-policy
15:54:51 [Zakim]
+Frederick_Hirsch
15:55:34 [dmoberg]
dmoberg has joined #ws-policy
15:55:45 [Zakim]
-Frederick_Hirsch
15:55:58 [toufic]
toufic has joined #ws-policy
15:56:16 [bijan]
bijan has joined #ws-policy
15:57:00 [Zakim]
+Frederick_Hirsch
15:57:01 [Zakim]
+ +1.508.628.aaaa
15:57:07 [plh]
plh has joined #ws-policy
15:57:18 [Yakov]
Yakov has joined #ws-policy
15:57:39 [Zakim]
+Abbie_Barbir
15:57:42 [Zakim]
+??P13
15:57:51 [Zakim]
+Mark_Little
15:58:11 [Zakim]
+Plh
15:58:11 [Fabian]
zakim, ??P13 is Fabian
15:58:11 [Zakim]
+Fabian; got it
15:58:18 [plh]
zakim, mute me
15:58:18 [Zakim]
Plh should now be muted
15:58:22 [abbie]
scribe: abbie
15:58:28 [plh]
zakim, who's on the phone?
15:58:28 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Charlton_Barreto, +1.508.628.aaaa, Frederick_Hirsch, Abbie_Barbir, Fabian, Mark_Little, Plh (muted)
15:58:32 [Zakim]
+??P26
15:58:43 [paulc]
paulc has joined #ws-policy
15:58:43 [Zakim]
+ +1.604.681.aabb
15:58:55 [Zakim]
+Chris_Ferris
15:58:57 [dmoberg]
zakim, ??P26 is dmoberg
15:59:03 [Zakim]
+dmoberg; got it
15:59:05 [asir]
asir has joined #ws-policy
15:59:24 [plh]
zakim, +1.604.681.aabb is Toufic
15:59:24 [Zakim]
+Toufic; got it
15:59:36 [Zakim]
+ +1.781.643.aacc
15:59:54 [plh]
zakim, +1.508.628.aaaa is Yakov
15:59:54 [Zakim]
+Yakov; got it
15:59:56 [danroth]
danroth has joined #ws-policy
16:00:00 [cferris]
zakim, aacc is maryann
16:00:00 [Zakim]
+maryann; got it
16:00:07 [cferris]
zakim, who is here?
16:00:07 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Charlton_Barreto, Yakov, Frederick_Hirsch, Abbie_Barbir, Fabian, Mark_Little, Plh (muted), dmoberg, Toufic, Chris_Ferris, maryann
16:00:09 [Zakim]
On IRC I see danroth, asir, paulc, Yakov, plh, bijan, toufic, dmoberg, Fabian, FrederickHirsch, cferris, abbie, mlittle, Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot, charlton
16:00:27 [JCrump]
JCrump has joined #ws-policy
16:00:27 [Zakim]
+??P5
16:00:36 [maryann]
maryann has joined #ws-policy
16:00:37 [plh]
zakim, p5 is Asir
16:00:37 [Zakim]
sorry, plh, I do not recognize a party named 'p5'
16:00:40 [sanka]
sanka has joined #ws-policy
16:00:42 [plh]
zakim, ??p5 is Asir
16:00:42 [Zakim]
+Asir; got it
16:00:51 [Zakim]
+ +1.781.999.aadd
16:01:09 [cferris]
zakim, aadd is jcrump
16:01:23 [whenry]
whenry has joined #ws-policy
16:01:29 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
16:01:33 [Zakim]
+jcrump; got it
16:01:34 [Zakim]
sorry, bijan, I do not see a party named 'bijan'
16:01:35 [Zakim]
+ +1.781.902.aaee
16:01:37 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:01:38 [Zakim]
+Paul_Cotton
16:01:40 [Zakim]
+ +1.208.284.aaff
16:01:42 [Zakim]
+Prasad_Yendluri
16:01:43 [Ashok]
Ashok has joined #ws-policy
16:01:49 [bijan]
zakim, +[IPcaller] is me
16:01:58 [Zakim]
sorry, bijan, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'
16:02:02 [whenry]
zakim, +1.781.902.aaee is whenry
16:02:03 [danroth]
zakim, who is here?
16:02:03 [bijan]
zakim, IPcaller is me
16:02:10 [Zakim]
+whenry; got it
16:02:16 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Charlton_Barreto, Yakov, Frederick_Hirsch, Abbie_Barbir, Fabian, Mark_Little, Plh (muted), dmoberg, Toufic, Chris_Ferris, maryann, Asir, jcrump, whenry,
16:02:19 [Zakim]
... [IPcaller], Paul_Cotton, +1.208.284.aaff, Prasad_Yendluri
16:02:23 [Zakim]
Asir has danroth
16:02:25 [Zakim]
+bijan; got it
16:02:27 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Ashok, whenry, sanka, maryann, JCrump, danroth, asir, paulc, Yakov, plh, bijan, toufic, dmoberg, Fabian, FrederickHirsch, cferris, abbie, mlittle, Zakim, RRSAgent,
16:02:29 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
16:02:30 [Zakim]
... trackbot, charlton
16:02:32 [cferris]
zakim, who is here?
16:02:33 [plh]
zakim, unmute me
16:02:36 [Zakim]
bijan should now be muted
16:02:40 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Charlton_Barreto, Yakov, Frederick_Hirsch, Abbie_Barbir, Fabian, Mark_Little, Plh (muted), dmoberg, Toufic, Chris_Ferris, maryann, Asir, jcrump, whenry, bijan
16:02:46 [prasad]
prasad has joined #ws-policy
16:02:47 [Zakim]
... (muted), Paul_Cotton, +1.208.284.aaff, Prasad_Yendluri
16:02:49 [Zakim]
Asir has danroth
16:02:50 [plh]
zakim, unmute me
16:02:51 [Zakim]
Plh should no longer be muted
16:02:51 [monica]
monica has joined #ws-policy
16:02:55 [Zakim]
+Glen
16:02:57 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Ashok, whenry, sanka, maryann, JCrump, danroth, asir, paulc, Yakov, plh, bijan, toufic, dmoberg, Fabian, FrederickHirsch, cferris, abbie, mlittle, Zakim, RRSAgent,
16:02:58 [GlenD]
GlenD has joined #ws-policy
16:03:00 [Zakim]
... trackbot, charlton
16:03:04 [Zakim]
-Prasad_Yendluri
16:03:08 [Zakim]
Plh was not muted, plh
16:03:20 [Zakim]
+Prasad_Yendluri
16:03:39 [cferris]
zakim, aaff is monica
16:03:39 [Zakim]
+monica; got it
16:03:45 [Zakim]
+Ashok_Malhotra
16:03:49 [plh]
zakim, mute me
16:03:49 [Zakim]
Plh should now be muted
16:04:33 [cferris]
zakim, who is here
16:04:33 [Zakim]
cferris, you need to end that query with '?'
16:04:36 [paulc]
zakim. who is here?
16:04:41 [sanka]
sanka has joined #ws-policy
16:04:46 [paulc]
who is here?
16:04:51 [abbie]
who is scribe ?
16:04:53 [cferris]
zakim, who is here?
16:04:53 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Charlton_Barreto, Yakov, Frederick_Hirsch, Abbie_Barbir, Fabian, Mark_Little, Plh (muted), dmoberg, Toufic, Chris_Ferris, maryann, Asir, jcrump, whenry, bijan
16:04:56 [Zakim]
... (muted), Paul_Cotton, monica, Glen, Prasad_Yendluri, Ashok_Malhotra
16:04:59 [Zakim]
Asir has danroth
16:05:00 [Zakim]
On IRC I see sanka, GlenD, monica, prasad, Ashok, whenry, maryann, JCrump, danroth, asir, paulc, Yakov, plh, bijan, toufic, dmoberg, Fabian, FrederickHirsch, cferris, abbie,
16:05:02 [Zakim]
... mlittle, Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot, charlton
16:05:35 [cferris]
scribe: abbie
16:05:54 [FrederickHirsch]
q+
16:06:25 [plh]
plh has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Aug/0104.html
16:06:27 [cferris]
ack fre
16:06:37 [abbie]
approval of minutes as ammended by umit http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/wspolicy/actions/45
16:07:26 [abbie]
fredrick has a comment, should we change how the comments are recorded (interleaved)
16:08:03 [plh]
zakim, unmute me
16:08:03 [Zakim]
Plh should no longer be muted
16:08:11 [abbie]
chris, minutes approved as ammended by umit and felix
16:08:38 [abbie]
next item, review of Review and approval of 2006-08-02 telcon minutes, Chair
16:08:38 [abbie]
Draft minutes (member only):
16:08:38 [abbie]
http://www.w3.org/2006/08/02-ws-policy-minutes.html
16:09:04 [abbie]
fredric has a comment agenda item 9 9 same a before)
16:09:06 [abbie]
approved
16:09:24 [abbie]
3. Future WG meetings, Chair
16:09:29 [abbie]
paul will chair that
16:10:16 [abbie]
f2f meeting moved to belleview as opposed to redmond, closer to ice cream shops
16:10:33 [FrederickHirsch]
note in agenda item 9a in 09 minutes may be confusing -
16:10:39 [whenry]
Is there a place I can check if my registration was ... well registered?
16:10:46 [FrederickHirsch]
move "ssue 3549 related to 3548, same resolution" to agenda item for 3548
16:10:52 [abbie]
4. Working Group drafts,
16:11:04 [abbie]
chris stated that the drfats have been posted
16:11:33 [asir]
ACTION: Philippe to update the Redmond F2F logistics page
16:11:33 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-56 - Update the Redmond F2F logistics page [on Philippe Le Hegaret - due 2006-08-23].
16:11:48 [abbie]
action: Felix to upgrade the logistics details for f2f
16:11:48 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-57 - Upgrade the logistics details for f2f [on Felix Sasaki - due 2006-08-23].
16:12:17 [plh]
rrsagent, drop action 2
16:12:46 [abbie]
6. Editorial and wording changing issues
16:13:16 [abbie]
draft include most of the actions, 4 left and were reported by the editors in an e-mail to list
16:13:28 [abbie]
diff were included in the draft
16:13:35 [abbie]
review of action items
16:14:13 [whenry]
zakim, mute me
16:14:13 [Zakim]
whenry should now be muted
16:14:16 [abbie]
action 20, posted this morning
16:14:18 [Zakim]
-Mark_Little
16:14:27 [umit]
umit has joined #ws-policy
16:14:44 [abbie]
paulc suggests to update on the fly
16:15:31 [paulc]
Action 20 is resolved by Bugzilla 3602
16:15:41 [Zakim]
+Umit_Yalcinalp
16:15:57 [abbie]
action 33 and 35
16:16:33 [abbie]
merge operation (need a better way) more time needed + 1 or 2 days
16:16:58 [abbie]
epr and policy subject, need to make sure that they are not a repeat, if not the case will update end of the week
16:17:13 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:17:45 [abbie]
action 39, owner is not online, david orchard will do that
16:17:58 [abbie]
action 39, pending
16:18:43 [abbie]
action 44, we do have an editor user, deemed inadequate, felix working on it, pending
16:18:57 [sanka]
zakim, who is here?
16:18:57 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Charlton_Barreto, Yakov, Frederick_Hirsch, Abbie_Barbir, Fabian, Plh, dmoberg, Toufic, Chris_Ferris, maryann, Asir, jcrump, whenry (muted), bijan (muted),
16:19:01 [Zakim]
... Paul_Cotton, monica, Glen, Prasad_Yendluri, Ashok_Malhotra, Umit_Yalcinalp, [IPcaller]
16:19:03 [Zakim]
Asir has danroth
16:19:04 [Zakim]
On IRC I see umit, sanka, GlenD, monica, prasad, Ashok, whenry, maryann, JCrump, danroth, asir, paulc, Yakov, plh, bijan, toufic, dmoberg, Fabian, FrederickHirsch, cferris, abbie,
16:19:06 [Zakim]
... Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot, charlton
16:19:20 [abbie]
action 44 peding on chris
16:19:50 [sanka]
zakim, IPCaller is probably me
16:19:50 [Zakim]
+sanka?; got it
16:19:58 [abbie]
action 48, maryann and Asir to ensure that interaction definition is clear, pending on maryann
16:20:04 [sanka]
zakim, who is here?
16:20:04 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Charlton_Barreto, Yakov, Frederick_Hirsch, Abbie_Barbir, Fabian, Plh, dmoberg, Toufic, Chris_Ferris, maryann, Asir, jcrump, whenry (muted), bijan (muted),
16:20:08 [Zakim]
... Paul_Cotton, monica, Glen, Prasad_Yendluri, Ashok_Malhotra, Umit_Yalcinalp, sanka?
16:20:10 [Zakim]
Asir has danroth
16:20:11 [Zakim]
On IRC I see umit, sanka, GlenD, monica, prasad, Ashok, whenry, maryann, JCrump, danroth, asir, paulc, Yakov, plh, bijan, toufic, dmoberg, Fabian, FrederickHirsch, cferris, abbie,
16:20:14 [Zakim]
... Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot, charlton
16:20:42 [abbie]
action 48 is due on next tuesday
16:20:53 [sanka]
zakim, mute me
16:20:53 [Zakim]
sanka? should now be muted
16:21:07 [abbie]
maryann needed personal time/vacation
16:21:56 [abbie]
paulc action 39 will be assigned to Dave Orchard
16:22:07 [abbie]
paulc all actions are updated
16:22:39 [abbie]
open issues for next week
16:22:43 [abbie]
befire the 23
16:23:05 [asir]
Here is the link to open issues for next week - http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/wspolicy/actions/open
16:23:09 [paulc]
http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/wspolicy/actions/open
16:23:24 [abbie]
look at the issue list (open issues) and take care of your action items
16:24:16 [abbie]
co-chairs remind people of doing their action items before the morning of the call friday is a better deadline before the call
16:24:18 [bijan]
are actions listed anywhere?
16:24:29 [bijan]
In a comprehensive ongoing list?
16:24:56 [abbie]
6. Editorial and wording changing issues (30 minutes)
16:25:08 [abbie]
chris, there is 19 open issues
16:25:18 [abbie]
s/19/20
16:25:21 [bijan]
No :)
16:25:26 [abbie]
is taht all the issues?
16:25:44 [abbie]
issues open today are direct derivatives from the f2f
16:26:24 [abbie]
need to look at the subsatnce and make sure that we did get all issues that are not trivial
16:26:41 [sanka]
zakim, sanka? is me
16:26:41 [Zakim]
+sanka; got it
16:27:00 [sanka]
zakim, who is here
16:27:00 [Zakim]
sanka, you need to end that query with '?'
16:27:12 [sanka]
zakim, who is here?
16:27:12 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Charlton_Barreto, Yakov, Frederick_Hirsch, Abbie_Barbir, Fabian, Plh, dmoberg, Toufic, Chris_Ferris, maryann, Asir, jcrump, whenry (muted), bijan (muted),
16:27:15 [Zakim]
... Paul_Cotton, monica, Glen, Prasad_Yendluri, Ashok_Malhotra, Umit_Yalcinalp, sanka (muted)
16:27:17 [Zakim]
Asir has danroth
16:27:18 [Zakim]
On IRC I see umit, sanka, GlenD, monica, prasad, Ashok, whenry, maryann, JCrump, danroth, asir, paulc, Yakov, plh, bijan, toufic, dmoberg, Fabian, FrederickHirsch, abbie, Zakim,
16:27:21 [abbie]
next f2f first day will try to finish the job of identifying all critical issues
16:27:22 [Zakim]
... RRSAgent, trackbot, charlton
16:27:41 [cferris]
cferris has joined #ws-policy
16:27:44 [asir]
q+
16:27:59 [paulc]
Chris: Let's get issues out ASAP.
16:28:00 [cferris]
ack asir
16:28:26 [abbie]
asir: is ther a deadline for finding substasive issues, need to enure t go with the december draft
16:28:48 [abbie]
chris, ideally will have only editorial after the f2f
16:28:53 [umit]
q+
16:28:55 [plh]
q+
16:29:11 [plh]
q-
16:29:33 [cferris]
ack umit
16:30:17 [abbie]
umit: is october the time frame substansive issues
16:31:18 [abbie]
chris, an editor draft that we can review in early december
16:31:32 [abbie]
paulc have it ready for f2f and use f2f to clean it up
16:32:19 [abbie]
chris, we have all siiues closed by 23 of october to allow editors to produce a draft
16:32:41 [abbie]
s/siiues/issues
16:32:55 [asir]
q+ to ask two questions on Bugzilla
16:33:24 [abbie]
chris need to change default assignne of the issue and people need to input their e-mail address in the assignne field
16:33:49 [abbie]
if you creat an issue, u r the owner, does not mean provide solution, but mean track it
16:33:59 [abbie]
above was said by chris
16:34:01 [cferris]
ack asir
16:34:01 [Zakim]
asir, you wanted to ask two questions on Bugzilla
16:34:03 [umit]
i would have preferred to sort out the remaining issues in the november f2f. F2F is usually more productive to resolve issues.
16:34:21 [abbie]
asir: do u have issue discuutions to happen (issue list)
16:34:32 [abbie]
chris isue list,
16:34:56 [abbie]
chris, include a link in bugziila to the beginig in the issue
16:35:00 [cferris]
s/isue/issue/
16:35:14 [abbie]
asir: when we add an issue do we need the issue template
16:35:22 [abbie]
chris, yes, people please do that
16:35:32 [abbie]
url is comming next??
16:36:02 [abbie]
paulc assign an action item when to find the memodrium
16:36:26 [abbie]
action: paulc to find the memodrium
16:36:26 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - paulc
16:36:51 [abbie]
action: paul to find memodrium
16:36:51 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-58 - Find memodrium [on Paul Cotton - due 2006-08-23].
16:37:37 [asir]
Topic: Issue 3562
16:37:48 [abbie]
e) Remove misleading reference to a Requester policy, Yakov
16:37:48 [abbie]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3586
16:38:29 [abbie]
paulc carry fwd till dave give a proposal
16:38:53 [abbie]
s/e) with a) Clarify the relation of overlapping definitions in the fr...,
16:38:53 [abbie]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3562
16:38:53 [maryann]
moratorium ?
16:39:10 [bijan]
5?
16:39:11 [maryann]
for paul's item, yes?
16:39:13 [abbie]
Remove misleading phrasing of section 1.1 Goals section, Dale
16:39:13 [abbie]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3566
16:39:13 [abbie]
Status: Releated to ACTION-5.
16:39:53 [bijan]
zakim, unmute me
16:39:53 [Zakim]
bijan should no longer be muted
16:40:14 [abbie]
?? trying to track it as a duplicate
16:40:28 [abbie]
bijan: is a duplicate of 3604
16:40:29 [cferris]
s/??/bijan/
16:40:29 [asir]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3604
16:40:41 [bijan]
3604
16:40:58 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
16:40:58 [Zakim]
bijan should now be muted
16:41:11 [abbie]
so 3604 is a resolution of b) Remove misleading phrasing
16:41:26 [cferris]
RESOLUTION: 3566 closed as dup of 3604
16:42:07 [abbie]
c) Framework and domain specific policy assertions, Dale
16:42:07 [abbie]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3565
16:43:02 [abbie]
dale: introduction remar, in current draft looks better, there is no policy assertaions define in the document
16:43:04 [Zakim]
-Charlton_Barreto
16:43:09 [bijan]
Wacky! Zakim goes mad!
16:43:40 [cferris]
s/remar/remark/
16:44:01 [abbie]
dale: introduction in the frame suggest defining a framework etc,, but there are none
16:44:35 [abbie]
this is may not be clear to all, but clear to me , to a reader can be misleading
16:44:42 [abbie]
chris: current draft is better??
16:44:48 [toufic]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2006/ws/policy/ws-policy-framework.html?rev=1.3&content-type=text/html;%20charset=iso-8859-1#policy_assertion
16:44:57 [abbie]
dale: yes, just drop it if ok with others
16:45:49 [abbie]
toufic : as above, can we the definition of polucy aertion, see section 2.4 terminology
16:46:02 [abbie]
section 2.4 is still under construction
16:47:00 [toufic]
q+
16:47:19 [maryann]
q+
16:47:20 [Zakim]
+Charlton_Barreto
16:47:30 [abbie]
dale: should comment on the introduction and see if it is misleading or not ( see parag 1 and 2)
16:47:36 [abbie]
?? what is misleading
16:47:41 [maryann]
are we using the speaker que?
16:47:49 [bijan]
+1 asir
16:47:51 [abbie]
dale: does the framework provide what the intro states
16:47:59 [bijan]
No NOT GRAMMER!
16:48:05 [abbie]
tofic provides a grammer
16:48:07 [bijan]
q+
16:48:17 [cferris]
s/??/asir/
16:48:22 [abbie]
tofic, i bilive that is correct
16:48:38 [abbie]
dale correct contrast between domain and frameowrk is not clear
16:48:48 [umit]
s/bilive/believe/
16:48:56 [asir]
q+
16:49:03 [abbie]
chris use the queue
16:49:07 [cferris]
ack toufic
16:49:42 [abbie]
toufic i beilive that like other clarifications that dale wnat to reword (better or more to the point)
16:49:43 [asir]
+1
16:49:54 [Yakov]
q+
16:49:55 [cferris]
ack ma
16:50:11 [paulc]
Two more people have registered for the Sept F2F. Is there anyone else on the call that can do this during the meeting?
16:50:29 [abbie]
maryann : historical context, web services polucy 1.1 was a reference to the doc, would it help that the doc define a definition of asertion etc...
16:51:30 [abbie]
dale, both of the previous commets suggest, first sentance like web services provide a .. language for expressing ... (need domain specific)
16:51:36 [bijan]
q-
16:51:56 [abbie]
dale, can editor take a big stap at it
16:52:19 [cferris]
s/stap/stab/
16:52:20 [abbie]
tofic, will be glad to take that
16:53:28 [bijan]
+1 assign to editors
16:53:54 [Yakov]
q+
16:54:03 [paulc]
q+
16:54:15 [abbie]
asir, assign to editor
16:54:25 [abbie]
yakov need to add more definitions
16:54:28 [maryann]
q+
16:54:34 [abbie]
chris can raise that issue for the glossary
16:55:09 [paulc]
ack as
16:55:12 [paulc]
ack ya
16:55:17 [paulc]
ack paul
16:55:22 [cferris]
cferris has joined #ws-policy
16:55:27 [Yakov]
q-
16:55:28 [abbie]
paulc need to what changes are required
16:55:49 [maryann]
the editors will clarify the definition of framework and domain
16:55:59 [maryann]
and domain is already an action for the editors
16:56:11 [Yakov]
Possible definitions to add (as part of new issue): Policy Domain, Requester, Provider, Policy Eval
16:56:20 [abbie]
chris, what we need is that dale is concerned parag 1 did convet that asertions are domain ones, need change to indicate that
16:56:22 [maryann]
the defintion of domain is already an action and I own it
16:56:27 [umit]
We can give Dale an action item to verify the results.
16:56:54 [abbie]
chris, maryann will work on that
16:57:06 [abbie]
paulc maryann text is good
16:57:09 [cferris]
ack ma
16:57:13 [paulc]
ack maryann
16:57:28 [Yakov]
+1
16:57:28 [abbie]
maryann this is a good item for the editors to take
16:57:52 [abbie]
RESOLUTION: 3565 asigned to editors
16:57:54 [asir]
ACTION: Editors to implement the resolution for issue 3566
16:57:54 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-59 - Implement the resolution for issue 3566 [on Editors - due 2006-08-23].
16:58:20 [abbie]
chris, dale tp update bugzilllllllla
16:59:02 [abbie]
asir: 3566 terms like domain is diffuclt to define
16:59:25 [abbie]
chris, 3665 we closed 3566 is open
16:59:52 [abbie]
Conformance Sections needed for both specs, Umit
16:59:52 [abbie]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3559
16:59:55 [cferris]
ACTION 5 = Editors to implement the resolution for issue 3565
17:01:23 [bijan]
zakim, unmute me
17:01:23 [Zakim]
bijan should no longer be muted
17:01:24 [cferris]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Aug/0104.html
17:02:06 [abbie]
bijan, can not find my actions
17:02:12 [abbie]
chris, check the minutes
17:02:27 [umit]
q+
17:02:35 [toufic]
q?
17:03:06 [bijan]
zakim, mute me
17:03:06 [Zakim]
bijan should now be muted
17:03:17 [FrederickHirsch]
q?
17:03:44 [abbie]
umit, complted action item 13, found questionable items , do we need to open an issue, how to proced
17:03:53 [plh]
q+
17:04:08 [plh]
ack umit
17:04:16 [abbie]
chris, if u have issues enter them, do not asume that issues will be trakced
17:05:06 [abbie]
paulc, since u r proposing changes u need to open an issue
17:05:28 [plh]
q-
17:06:10 [abbie]
8. Minor Technical Issues (30 minutes)
17:06:26 [abbie]
a) Add discussion/examples of domain expressions, Ashok
17:06:26 [abbie]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3557
17:07:21 [abbie]
asok, added wording to ask the editor to add words about expression as a polucty subject, started 3599 to reques to think about uri structure for wsdl 1.1
17:07:42 [cferris]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3599
17:07:44 [abbie]
and possible mesaging mechanisms
17:07:51 [abbie]
s/asok/ashok
17:08:03 [abbie]
chris 2 open issues wsd 1 and wsdl 1.1
17:08:11 [umit]
q+
17:08:26 [asir]
q+
17:08:31 [abbie]
ashok, no, one is on expression and one which possible object u can reference
17:08:41 [plh]
+1 to provide a phone line to Ashok
17:08:41 [umit]
q-
17:09:00 [abbie]
+1 to not be the scribe
17:09:27 [abbie]
chris, 3599 policy attachment for wsdl 1.1
17:09:31 [Zakim]
-monica
17:09:39 [Zakim]
+m2
17:09:43 [umit]
q+
17:09:51 [cferris]
ack asir
17:09:59 [plh]
zakim, m2 is monica
17:09:59 [Zakim]
+monica; got it
17:10:01 [abbie]
asir, ????
17:10:14 [abbie]
umit, i have added that to the bug
17:10:28 [umit]
s/i/Ashok/
17:10:38 [paulc]
q+
17:11:22 [cferris]
ack um
17:11:25 [paulc]
"This needs to be clarified in the PolicyAttachment document." Where?
17:11:46 [abbie]
paulc entry say need to clarify in polcy doc but did not where
17:11:52 [umit]
q+
17:12:23 [abbie]
yakov, subject line shoudl state that
17:12:23 [cferris]
ack pau
17:12:57 [cferris]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-ws-policy-attach-20060731/#ExternalPolicyAttachment
17:13:15 [Yakov]
s/yakov, subject /asir, subject
17:13:53 [cferris]
The external Policy Attachment mechanism uses a PolicyAttachment element to
17:13:53 [cferris]
associate a Policy with a Policy Subject. URI References to policy subjects
17:13:53 [cferris]
may include WSDL component references, (see Appendix to the WSDL 2.0 spec for
17:13:53 [cferris]
URI structures to refer to WSFL 2.0 contsructs), endpoint references and other
17:13:53 [cferris]
domain specific configurations and protocol constructs, such as URIs used to
17:13:54 [cferris]
designate JMS queues.
17:14:04 [asir]
q+
17:14:29 [cferris]
ack um
17:14:43 [abbie]
umit can go before the exampole
17:14:44 [cferris]
added to section 3.4 pol-att
17:14:52 [cferris]
ack as
17:14:56 [abbie]
s/exampole/example
17:15:19 [abbie]
asir, looking at the text, how the exteral work with components
17:15:38 [umit]
q+
17:15:44 [cferris]
note, I believe that there is a typo in the proposed text from the issue in bugzilla... WSFL should probably be WSDL
17:15:56 [abbie]
not aware about implementations that support component designated, not ware why need to reference two attachement mechanisms
17:15:57 [umit]
yes, you are right Chris
17:16:49 [abbie]
umit, do not think that u can speculate what else will implement
17:17:00 [Ashok]
q+
17:17:05 [cferris]
also, contsructs should be constructs
17:17:14 [asir]
q+ to respond
17:17:15 [cferris]
ack um
17:17:18 [abbie]
umit this is an example, no place in spec the usage of components is prohibited
17:17:57 [maryann]
q+
17:18:00 [abbie]
aisr: may need other peices than the example may be a documnet to explain how use it etc.
17:18:02 [umit]
q+
17:18:13 [cferris]
ack asi
17:18:13 [Zakim]
asir, you wanted to respond
17:18:48 [abbie]
ashok, r u saying that no one implemnt wdsl 2 component desginatior, well... peiople will slolwy do it
17:19:04 [paulc]
q+
17:19:05 [abbie]
ashok, oracle does wsdl 1.1
17:19:25 [cferris]
ashok, believes that since WSDL2.0 component designators is a W3C spec, that it will gain adoption and that will need a means of referencing them from polatt
17:20:03 [cferris]
ack ash
17:20:06 [cferris]
ack ma
17:20:23 [paulc]
What is the difficulty with spelling it out - A: people will ask us to demonstrate implementations of this during CR.
17:20:42 [abbie]
maryann, 2 things usage of adressing (need to verify with wsa greoup) and need to verify with the wsdl wg
17:20:52 [abbie]
chris, riase this as an issue
17:20:56 [Zakim]
+Charlton_Barreto
17:20:59 [abbie]
ashok, what is the issue
17:21:23 [abbie]
maryann, coordination isssue between the exaple and it is in alighnement with wsa wg and wsdl wg
17:21:30 [paulc]
FYI, WSDL 2.0 is at CR. Does anyone know if the WSDL 2.0 component designators are being tested as part of that CR?
17:21:56 [cferris]
I'd like someone to enter this as an issue: addressing the question as to whether we need to have ws-addr and wsdl wgs weigh in on the example domain expression
17:21:56 [abbie]
s/exaple/example
17:22:00 [asir]
No WSDL 2.0 component designators are not tested
17:22:10 [abbie]
action: maryann to add an issue on coordination
17:22:12 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-60 - Add an issue on coordination [on Maryann Hondo - due 2006-08-23].
17:22:52 [umit]
q?
17:23:09 [cferris]
q?
17:23:13 [cferris]
ack um
17:24:01 [maryann]
Action 60- there seems to be some question on whether the example given in 3.4 is "legitimate" with regard to the WS-Addressing specification/Working group and whether or not there are additional attachment mechanisms for WSDL, so the action is to coordinate with the WSDL and WS-Addressing working groups to have them review the examples we are citing
17:24:07 [paulc]
I am concerned if it is clear if Section 3.4 of the PolicyAttachment has implementation requirements on this WG?
17:24:13 [abbie]
umit, external reference can span large contexts, it is ideas that matter, why having examples that refere to external subjetcs creats a concern
17:24:36 [cferris]
umit: unclear as to why wording that provides possible examples of domain expressions is generating such controversy
17:24:39 [asir]
q+
17:24:42 [cferris]
ack pa
17:25:31 [abbie]
paulc, put 2 comments on irc, nothing normative in 3.4, wonder if people will think is an extension point and need not be tested
17:25:51 [abbie]
paulc, is components designators part of cr in wsdl 2
17:25:57 [abbie]
ashok, need to check
17:26:22 [abbie]
paulc, any think normtaive in this section
17:26:35 [cferris]
q+ ashok
17:26:35 [maryann]
i think its examples
17:26:55 [maryann]
but I was suggesting a review of the examples by the appropriate working groups
17:27:06 [abbie]
pauc, need to figure out what the section is doing, people may see the section as having different objectives
17:27:27 [cferris]
ack asi
17:27:41 [abbie]
asir, can not fully answere paulc question
17:27:58 [abbie]
3 mechanisms, atatchment to wsdl 1.1, uddi and wsdl 2
17:28:11 [abbie]
asir, then general purpose mechanisms,
17:28:41 [abbie]
asir, with repect to umit concerns, we do not know if the exaplmes are misleading the reader or not
17:29:12 [abbie]
umit, talking reference to wsdlm, u may object to jms, but not all
17:29:59 [abbie]
ashok, if u r attaching policy to wsdl that u own, ok with wsdl, if u want attach ploicy to a wsdl that u do not owbm that situation u need the 3 point mechanism
17:30:04 [abbie]
this is useful stuff
17:30:33 [abbie]
ashok, u might not use jms, but people do, people can use what the see fit
17:31:24 [abbie]
chris, take that to the list
17:33:12 [abbie]
9. Major Technical Issues (30 minutes)
17:33:24 [abbie]
a) Normalization should make empty nested policy elements, Frederick
17:33:24 [abbie]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3548
17:33:24 [abbie]
Status: See exchange beginning here:
17:33:24 [abbie]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Aug/0063.html
17:33:38 [abbie]
fredirc this related to 3548
17:33:54 [FrederickHirsch]
topic: bug 3549, Require assertions to be distinguished from parameter elements
17:34:04 [FrederickHirsch]
bugzilla entry: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3549
17:34:12 [FrederickHirsch]
additional email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Aug/0063.html
17:34:25 [FrederickHirsch]
1. Clarity of assertion vs parameter
17:34:36 [FrederickHirsch]
2. Allow generic processor to distinguish even with unknown domain assertions
17:34:48 [FrederickHirsch]
3. Resolve normalization issue with empty wsp:Policy element and none,
17:34:49 [abbie]
fredrick, how to differentiate an asertion from a parameter,
17:35:23 [FrederickHirsch]
Framework states that unknown child element is treated as assertion in 2.2
17:35:39 [FrederickHirsch]
Asir notes in bugzilla that assertions must be in wsp namespace, contradiction.
17:35:46 [cferris]
I would note that in suggesting that discussion of the previous issue (in topic 8) be taken to the list, that I was also encouraging progress on the other minor issues on the list so that we are prepared to close those on next week's call
17:35:52 [abbie]
asir stated an asertion should in the wsp name space
17:35:53 [FrederickHirsch]
Framework also states that any assertion that may have nested assertion,
17:36:01 [Zakim]
+DOrchard
17:36:03 [Ashok]
q+
17:36:17 [asir]
q+
17:36:22 [cferris]
me recognizes dave o joining the call
17:36:42 [abbie]
fredrick, there is an issue of clrity
17:36:49 [FrederickHirsch]
must have child assertion (Section 4.3.2 Assertion/wsp:Policy item).
17:37:06 [cferris]
ack ash
17:37:10 [paulc]
q+
17:37:23 [abbie]
ashok, sunassertion are like sub policies, not sure what u mean
17:37:23 [dorchard]
dorchard has joined #ws-policy
17:37:50 [FrederickHirsch]
q+
17:37:53 [cferris]
s/sunassertion/some assertions/
17:38:02 [FrederickHirsch]
q-
17:38:06 [abbie]
ashok, all asertion must be in the wsp name space ?? do not agree
17:38:30 [Zakim]
-Chris_Ferris
17:38:36 [abbie]
asir, asir i did not say the assertion in the wsp space
17:38:37 [paulc]
Where is the dialogue on this issue in the email archive?
17:38:48 [paulc]
ack asir
17:39:00 [abbie]
asir insists that the minutes clear him from this terrible stattement
17:39:19 [abbie]
fredrick, disgree that the issues are disjoint
17:39:30 [abbie]
asir, can explain the e-mail chain
17:39:39 [Zakim]
+ +1.443.927.aagg
17:39:53 [plh]
zakim, aagg is Chris
17:39:53 [Zakim]
+Chris; got it
17:39:58 [paulc]
See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Jul/0088.html
17:40:00 [abbie]
asir, policy assertion is child element of policy that is not from the ws policy name space
17:40:01 [Zakim]
-dmoberg
17:40:08 [paulc]
for email dialogue on Issue 3548
17:40:28 [cferris]
q?
17:40:45 [abbie]
not aware of issues on disticntion between assertion and a asser.. paremeter
17:40:55 [abbie]
fredirck, asir is correct,
17:40:57 [cferris]
asir does not want to be misquoted in the minutes
17:42:26 [Ashok]
q+
17:42:35 [abbie]
an assertion that has a nested assertion they all be the child of one of the policy elements,
17:42:59 [abbie]
fredrick, need clarification in the documnet
17:43:49 [abbie]
freerick, we need 3548 and 3549 to be comnibed to make better wording in the documents(s)
17:44:12 [cferris]
s/freerick/frederick/g
17:44:36 [abbie]
asir, wait until tony is here to do 3548,
17:44:50 [danroth]
q+
17:45:16 [cferris]
ack pa
17:45:18 [paulc]
ack pau
17:45:24 [abbie]
fedrick, we are resolved for 3549, need better wording
17:45:54 [cferris]
s/fedrick/frederick/g
17:46:05 [abbie]
ashok, looking at ws-secpolcy, assertion has no imbeeded poluc, so ???
17:46:15 [asir]
q+
17:46:22 [cferris]
ack ash
17:46:25 [cferris]
section 4.1.1
17:47:12 [abbie]
daroth, need the tecxt for the record, on the list
17:47:18 [cferris]
ack asir
17:47:20 [cferris]
ack da
17:47:43 [abbie]
asir, wrp ashok, on the parts body header are assertion parameters
17:47:56 [paulc]
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ws-sx/download.php/18837/ws-securitypolicy-1.2-spec-ed-01-r07.pdf
17:49:33 [abbie]
action: fredrick to supply text to reslove 3549
17:49:33 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - fredrick
17:50:08 [cferris]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3560
17:50:16 [abbie]
action: frederickhi to supply text to reslove 3549
17:50:16 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - frederickhi
17:50:43 [FrederickHirsch]
note that security policy claims that sp:SignedParts is an assertion, which would be incorrect given our discussion
17:51:12 [Fabian]
q+
17:51:14 [FrederickHirsch]
section 4.1.1 of security policy
17:51:52 [cferris]
ack fab
17:51:58 [asir]
Umit's proposal - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Jul/0099.html
17:52:17 [paulc]
q+
17:52:19 [asir]
Asir's amendment - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Aug/0074.html
17:52:21 [abbie]
action: frederickHirsch to supply text to resolve 3549
17:52:21 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - frederickHirsch
17:52:42 [asir]
Asir's "- bullet 2" - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Aug/0099.html
17:52:50 [abbie]
fabian, need to fix pbs with xml:id
17:53:02 [asir]
Proposal on the table = Umit's proposal - bullet 2 + Asir's amendment
17:53:12 [abbie]
paulc, a lot of work in ietf, canolization etc,
17:54:10 [cferris_]
cferris_ has joined #ws-policy
17:54:20 [cferris_]
q?
17:54:24 [cferris_]
ack pa
17:54:47 [abbie]
fabian, i do not to forbid people to not use attribute, we need to stcik with wsu id
17:55:12 [FrederickHirsch]
q+
17:55:14 [abbie]
paulc, i c the pb, beaucse xml: id is broken we can help people use it nmore safely
17:55:22 [asir]
q+
17:56:46 [FrederickHirsch]
support Umit proposal with canonicalization amendment
17:57:47 [abbie]
asir, use umit prosal - 2 bullet
17:57:57 [FrederickHirsch]
q-
17:57:57 [abbie]
umit this should be acceasable thru the bug
17:58:04 [abbie]
chris, do we have agreement
17:58:09 [abbie]
ferederick, i am ok
17:58:12 [cferris_]
ack asir
17:58:18 [asir]
actually .. umit's proposal - bullet 2 + asir's amendment
17:58:24 [abbie]
chris, do we agreemnt
17:59:08 [asir]
ACTION: Editors to implement the resolution for issue 3560
17:59:09 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-61 - Implement the resolution for issue 3560 [on Editors - due 2006-08-23].
17:59:09 [abbie]
RESOLUTION: use the 3 links provided in the IRC
17:59:14 [Zakim]
-Ashok_Malhotra
17:59:42 [paulc]
Umit's proposal - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Jul/0099.html
17:59:55 [paulc]
Asir's amendment - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Aug/0074.html
18:00:17 [paulc]
Asir's "- bullet 2" - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Aug/0099.html
18:00:24 [Zakim]
-bijan
18:00:50 [Zakim]
-Yakov
18:00:52 [plh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
18:00:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-ws-policy-minutes.html plh
18:01:07 [plh]
rrsagent, make logs public
18:01:10 [Zakim]
-Frederick_Hirsch
18:01:10 [maryann]
maryann has left #ws-policy
18:01:13 [Zakim]
-Abbie_Barbir
18:01:41 [umit]
This is bug 3560
18:01:45 [Zakim]
-maryann
18:02:05 [Zakim]
-Charlton_Barreto
18:02:07 [Zakim]
-Umit_Yalcinalp
18:02:37 [paulc]
action: frederick to supply text to resolve 3549
18:02:39 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-62 - Supply text to resolve 3549 [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2006-08-23].
18:02:47 [cferris_]
RESOLUTION: 3560 closed with the proposal in Umit's proposal in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Jul/0099.html as amended by http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Aug/0074.html and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Aug/0099.html
18:04:15 [cferris_]
10 01rrsagent, generate minutes
18:04:23 [dmoberg]
dmoberg has left #ws-policy
18:04:24 [Zakim]
-Glen
18:04:57 [Zakim]
-jcrump
18:04:59 [JCrump]
JCrump has left #ws-policy
18:05:25 [Zakim]
-Prasad_Yendluri
18:05:39 [Ashok]
Ashok has left #ws-policy
18:05:55 [Zakim]
-whenry
18:06:12 [Zakim]
-Toufic
18:07:23 [Zakim]
-Chris
18:07:24 [Zakim]
-Paul_Cotton
18:07:27 [Zakim]
-monica
18:07:29 [Zakim]
-Fabian
18:07:33 [Zakim]
-Asir
18:07:42 [Zakim]
-Plh
18:07:54 [plh]
zakim, who's on the phone?
18:07:54 [Zakim]
On the phone I see sanka (muted), DOrchard
18:07:58 [plh]
zakim, disconnect sanka
18:07:58 [Zakim]
sanka is being disconnected
18:08:00 [Zakim]
-sanka
18:08:02 [plh]
zakim, disconnect dorchard
18:08:02 [Zakim]
DOrchard is being disconnected
18:08:04 [Zakim]
WS_Policy()12:00PM has ended
18:08:06 [Zakim]
Attendees were Charlton_Barreto, Frederick_Hirsch, Abbie_Barbir, Mark_Little, Plh, Fabian, Chris_Ferris, dmoberg, Toufic, +1.781.643.aacc, Yakov, maryann, +1.781.999.aadd, danroth,
18:08:11 [plh]
zakim, bye
18:08:11 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ws-policy
18:08:12 [Zakim]
... jcrump, Paul_Cotton, +1.208.284.aaff, Prasad_Yendluri, whenry, bijan, Glen, monica, Ashok_Malhotra, Umit_Yalcinalp, sanka, DOrchard, +1.443.927.aagg, Chris
18:08:17 [plh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
18:08:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-ws-policy-minutes.html plh
18:08:30 [plh]
plh has left #ws-policy
18:09:38 [sanka]
sanka has left #ws-policy
18:10:03 [toufic]
toufic has joined #ws-policy
18:25:47 [dorchard]
rrsagent, please what are the action items?
18:25:47 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'please what are the action items'
18:26:04 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'please what are the action items'
18:26:59 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'please what are the action items'
18:34:18 [dorchard]
Actionmispelled: everybody type actions and topics.
18:35:40 [cferris]
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19:07:35 [tib]
tib has joined #ws-policy
19:46:41 [cferris]
cferris has left #ws-policy