IRC log of grddl-wg on 2006-08-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:02:02 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #grddl-wg
15:02:02 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-irc
15:02:04 [Zakim]: +??P11
15:02:12 [FabienGandon]: zakim, [Sophia] is FabienGandon
15:02:16 [bwm]: Zakim, ??p11 is bwm
15:02:18 [Zakim]: +DanC
15:02:20 [HarryH]: ??P11 is HarryH
15:02:26 [Zakim]: +FabienGandon; got it
15:02:26 [HarryH]: Zakim, ??P11 is HarryH
15:02:32 [Zakim]: +bwm; got it
15:02:42 [Zakim]: I already had ??P11 as bwm, HarryH
15:02:53 [chimezie]: chimezie has joined #grddl-wg
15:03:16 [Zakim]: -bwm
15:03:23 [chimezie]: Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:24 [Zakim]: On the phone I see +1.718.666.aaaa, FabienGandon, +1.216.636.aabb, DanC
15:03:32 [Zakim]: As of this point the attendees have been +1.718.666.aaaa, +1.216.636.aabb, DanC, FabienGandon, bwm
15:03:38 [Zakim]: +??P15
15:03:42 [chimezie]: Zakim, +1.216.636.aabb is chimezie
15:03:42 [Zakim]: +chimezie; got it
15:03:54 [HarryH]: Zakim, +1.719.666.aaaa is HarryH
15:03:54 [Zakim]: sorry, HarryH, I do not recognize a party named '+1.719.666.aaaa'
15:04:28 [DanC]: Zakim, read agenda from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/weekly-agenda
15:04:28 [Zakim]: working on it, DanC
15:04:32 [Zakim]: agenda+ Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2006-08-16T15:00Z
15:04:38 [Zakim]: agendum 1 added
15:04:39 [Zakim]: agenda+ Finding Best Time for Re-occuring Meetings
15:04:40 [Zakim]: agendum 2 added
15:04:42 [Zakim]: agenda+ Use Cases, scenario gallery
15:04:46 [Zakim]: agendum 3 added
15:04:48 [Zakim]: agenda+ Validation and testing discussion.
15:04:50 [Zakim]: agendum 4 added
15:04:52 [Zakim]: agenda+ Concerns with GRDDL submission
15:04:54 [Zakim]: agendum 5 added
15:04:56 [Zakim]: agenda+ Relationship to the XML Processing Model Working Group
15:04:59 [DanC]: Zakim, mute Harry temporarily
15:05:00 [Zakim]: agendum 6 added
15:05:02 [Zakim]: done reading agenda, DanC
15:05:10 [Zakim]: sorry, DanC, I do not see a party named 'Harry'
15:05:31 [DanC]: Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:05:31 [Zakim]: On the phone I see +1.718.666.aaaa, FabienGandon, chimezie, DanC, ??P15
15:05:32 [HarryH]: Zakim, +1.718.666.aaaa is HarryH
15:05:33 [Zakim]: +HarryH; got it
15:05:47 [Zakim]: As of this point the attendees have been DanC, FabienGandon, bwm, chimezie, HarryH
15:05:47 [bwm]: Zakim ??p15 is bwm
15:05:56 [DanC]: Zakim, take up item 1
15:05:56 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2006-08-16T15:00Z" taken up
15:06:01 [DanC]: Regrets: Rachael
15:06:13 [DanC]: Regrets BenA
15:06:16 [DanC]: Regrets+ BenA
15:06:43 [chimezie]: so, the TOPIC command isn't necessary with a loaded agenda?
15:06:53 [DanC]: right
15:07:04 [HarryH]: Meeting: GRDDL Working Group Meeting Aug 16 2006
15:07:08 [HarryH]: Chair: HarryH
15:07:10 [HarryH]: Scribe: Chime
15:07:17 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-minutes.html HarryH
15:07:26 [Zakim]: + +1.314.480.aacc
15:07:41 [DanC]: Zakim, aacc is Brians
15:07:41 [Zakim]: +Brians; got it
15:07:52 [HarryH]: zakim, open item 1
15:07:52 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2006-08-16T15:00Z" taken up
15:08:17 [DanC]: Regrets+ Ian
15:10:04 [DanC]: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/08/09-grddl-wg-minutes GRDDL Working Group 2006-08-09 minutes
15:10:32 [DanC]: Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:10:32 [Zakim]: On the phone I see HarryH, FabienGandon, chimezie, DanC, ??P15, Brians
15:11:00 [bwm]: Zakim, ??P15 is bwm
15:11:00 [Zakim]: +bwm; got it
15:11:04 [HarryH]: Approve meeting minutes?
15:11:22 [chimezie]: RESOLUTION: Prior meetings approved
15:11:39 [DanC]: Zakim, next item
15:11:39 [Zakim]: agendum 2. "Finding Best Time for Re-occuring Meetings" taken up
15:11:53 [DanC]: considering 1600Z, noon ET
15:12:03 [chimezie]: HarryH: Would noon work for people?
15:13:52 [chimezie]: PROPOSE: Noon works for current attendees. Alternative option is 11am (if there is objection)
15:14:31 [DanC]: PROPSED: to meet again Wed, 23 Aug at 12pET unless WG members object by email, in which case we'll use 11am ET
15:14:58 [chimezie]: RESOLUTION: Next meeting time, Wed, Aug 2006-08-23 Noon EST
15:15:41 [DanC]: rather: RESOLVED: to meet again Wed, 23 Aug at 12pET unless WG members object by email, in which case we'll use 11am ET
15:15:52 [HarryH]: Zakim, next item
15:15:52 [Zakim]: agendum 3. "Use Cases, scenario gallery" taken up
15:16:31 [chimezie]: HarryH: Too many usecases
15:17:18 [FabienGandon]: here: http://www-sop.inria.fr/acacia/personnel/Fabien.Gandon/tmp/grddl/scenario-gallery.htm
15:17:26 [chimezie]: chimezie: Is it always the case to not have specifics in a usecase
15:17:56 [chimezie]: HarryH: Flesh out a bit more (4-5, perhaps)
15:18:19 [chimezie]: DanC: No audience for GRDDL usecase document
15:19:01 [chimezie]: DanC: break out usecase documents into specific audience
15:20:25 [chimezie]: FabienGandon: should be more formal in approach and flesh out usecases some more.
15:22:39 [DanC]: titles might be "getting data from HTML documents with GRDDL" and "Interoperable data with XML Schema with GRDDL"
15:22:39 [chimezie]: HarryH: is nervous about breaking it out
15:22:57 [FabienGandon]: Another example: OWL Web Ontology Language Use Cases and Requirements http://www.w3.org/TR/webont-req/
15:26:20 [HarryH]: believes Fabien has written the microformat use case document and is quite happy with it but wants 4-5 as opposed to 8-9 use cases.
15:26:34 [chimezie]: DanC: specific usecase generates creative commons metadata from OAI
15:26:44 [chimezie]: OAI?
15:26:53 [danja]: danja has joined #grddl-wg
15:27:14 [DanC]: http://www.openarchives.org/
15:27:31 [danja]: apologies, I forgot the scheduled time
15:28:09 [danja]: pointer for irc log?
15:28:18 [DanC]: RRSAgent, pointer?
15:28:18 [RRSAgent]: See http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-irc#T15-28-18
15:28:23 [danja]: thanks
15:28:29 [chimezie]: ACTION: Address XML schema GRDDL usecase (interested parties)
15:28:30 [DanC]: RRSAgent, make logs world-access
15:30:07 [chimezie]: chimezie: I think fewer usecases cover enough ground to make the general point
15:31:59 [danja]: sorry, what's the conference code?
15:32:03 [chimezie]: HarryH: consolidate microformat usecases
15:32:06 [DanC]: Zakim, passcode?
15:32:06 [Zakim]: the conference code is 47335 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), DanC
15:33:03 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
15:33:28 [danja]: that's me
15:33:33 [chimezie]: DanC: don't be too overzealous with consolidating usecases - focus on common scenarios
15:34:19 [DanC]: well, I'm happy to consolidate; but I want to consolidate based on audience and area of applicaiton, not based on technical mechanism
15:34:51 [DanC]: (I'm curious what Fabien uses to come up with such nice diagrams so quickly)
15:37:29 [chimezie]: FabienGandon: Target RDF vocabulary for Wikis could accomodate 1) general wiki structure 2) domain keywords
15:39:39 [chimezie]: FabienGandon: Better tagging of concepts. Dynamic reorganization by modifying underlying ontology associated with tagging semantics
15:40:09 [danja]: (facetted browsing?)
15:41:55 [DanC]: (hmm... I thought I grokked the wiki scenario, but with what chime said, I'm confused again.)
15:42:40 [chimezie]: chimezie: Using RDF to drive organization of content is sort of an inverse of GRDDL extraction of RDF vocabulary from content
15:46:08 [HarryH]: Thinks that we need to make the use cases simple and "for the people" as well as easy to implement.
15:46:18 [FabienGandon]: A longer version of the scenario on Wikis: ftp://ftp-sop.inria.fr/acacia/fgandon/research/semwiki2006/BuffaGandon_SemWiki2006.pdf
15:47:11 [HarryH]: Is very excited about the cutting-edge use cases but perhaps worried those may be over the head of some of our readers.
15:47:51 [DanC]: (I think I'm starting to get the XForms case, but it sounds pretty involved)
15:49:12 [danja]: (ref. for use case #3 - http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/blogs/gems/tech/rsd.html )
15:53:40 [chimezie]: DanC: main motivation for whittling down usecases is to be able to elaborate on the ones we keep
15:54:14 [chimezie]: HarryH: Focus on advocacy as criteria for yes/no on usecases
15:55:19 [chimezie]: ACTION: DanC as additional participant for usecase #1
15:55:58 [chimezie]: ACTION: chimezie to help Fabien with usecase #2
15:56:06 [DanC]: (pls don't rely on usecase numbers; they're not stable)
15:56:13 [DanC]: I'm interested to mix #1, scheduling, with http://esw.w3.org/topic/SparqlCalendarDemo
15:56:37 [DanC]: ACTION 2 = DanC as additional participant for usecase #1, scheduling
15:56:58 [chimezie]: ACTION: Fabien and danja interested in helping with XForms usecase
15:57:56 [chimezie]: Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:57:56 [Zakim]: On the phone I see HarryH, FabienGandon, chimezie, DanC, bwm, Brians, [IPcaller]
15:58:38 [chimezie]: DanC: Hotel reviews instead of guitar review? More bootstrapping data
15:59:48 [Zakim]: -bwm
16:00:39 [chimezie]: ACTION 3 = chimezie to help Fabien with usecase #2 (Wiki usecase)
16:02:25 [HarryH]: definitely drop use case 7 - w3c index
16:02:34 [chimezie]: ACTION: Consolidate Wiki usecase, querying usecase and e-learning usecase
16:02:36 [briansuda]: moodle & k-12
16:03:02 [DanC]: ACTION DanC: relate some e-learning pointers, e.g. http://moodle.org/
16:03:06 [chimezie]: ACTION: Drop usecase 7 (Digital libraries and focused indices)
16:04:17 [chimezie]: FabienGandon: concerned about dropping usecase 7 - existing mechanism that can be improved
16:04:42 [danja]: (count me in as a fallback sponsor for wiki/catalogue/e-learning merger)
16:05:44 [chimezie]: FabienGandon: usecase titles shouldn't be too generic
16:07:10 [Zakim]: -Brians
16:08:50 [chimezie]: ACTION: Drop validation / testing usecase
16:09:19 [chimezie]: ACTION 8 = Fabien to drop validation / testing usecase
16:10:31 [chimezie]: ACTION 5 = danja, fabien to consolidate wiki usecase, queury usecase, and e-learning usecase
16:10:34 [danja]: (what he said - merge Atom/OWL inot XForms)
16:10:47 [danja]: s/inot/into
16:10:58 [chimezie]: ACTION: danja & chimezie work on merging Atom/OWL usecase into XForms usecase
16:11:55 [danja]: like bookmarks - probably need to check with Elias ?( or was it Lee?) on possible scenarios
16:12:07 [danja]: I suggest tabling for now
16:12:41 [danja]: s/like bookmarks/live bookmarks
16:14:49 [danja]: maybe talk about testing in #swig?
16:15:15 [DanC]: RRSAgent, list actions
16:15:15 [RRSAgent]: I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-actions.rdf :
16:15:15 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Address XML schema GRDDL usecase (interested parties) [1]
16:15:15 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-irc#T15-28-29
16:15:15 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: DanC as additional participant for usecase #1, scheduling [2]
16:15:15 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-irc#T15-55-19
16:15:15 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: chimezie to help Fabien with usecase #2 (Wiki usecase) [3]
16:15:15 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-irc#T15-55-58
16:15:15 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Fabien and danja interested in helping with XForms usecase [4]
16:15:15 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-irc#T15-56-58
16:15:15 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: danja, fabien to consolidate wiki usecase, queury usecase, and e-learning usecase [5]
16:15:15 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-irc#T16-02-34
16:15:15 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: DanC to relate some e-learning pointers, e.g. http://moodle.org/ [6]
16:15:15 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-irc#T16-03-02
16:15:15 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Drop usecase 7 (Digital libraries and focused indices) [7]
16:15:15 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-irc#T16-03-06
16:15:15 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Fabien to drop validation / testing usecase [8]
16:15:15 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-irc#T16-08-50
16:15:15 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: danja & chimezie work on merging Atom/OWL usecase into XForms usecase [9]
16:15:15 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-irc#T16-10-58
16:16:17 [DanC]: ACTION 1 = Harry carry XML schema GRDDL usecase to later meetings
16:17:10 [danja]: [4] & [9] look the same..?
16:17:16 [danja]: yep
16:19:17 [danja]: I missed discussion - isn't there mergeability with [1] and [6]
16:19:25 [DanC]: action 7 = DanC and Fabien to elaborate W3C /TR/ case
16:20:25 [DanC]: action -4
16:20:30 [DanC]: RRSAgent, list actions
16:20:30 [RRSAgent]: I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-actions.rdf :
16:20:30 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Harry carry XML schema GRDDL usecase to later meetings [1]
16:20:30 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-irc#T15-28-29
16:20:30 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: DanC as additional participant for usecase #1, scheduling [2]
16:20:30 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-irc#T15-55-19
16:20:30 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: chimezie to help Fabien with usecase #2 (Wiki usecase) [3]
16:20:30 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-irc#T15-55-58
16:20:30 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: danja, fabien to consolidate wiki usecase, queury usecase, and e-learning usecase [5]
16:20:30 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-irc#T16-02-34
16:20:30 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: DanC to relate some e-learning pointers, e.g. http://moodle.org/ [6]
16:20:30 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-irc#T16-03-02
16:20:30 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: DanC and Fabien to elaborate W3C /TR/ case [7]
16:20:30 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-irc#T16-03-06
16:20:30 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Fabien to drop validation / testing usecase [8]
16:20:30 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-irc#T16-08-50
16:20:30 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: danja & chimezie work on merging Atom/OWL usecase into XForms usecase [9]
16:20:30 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-irc#T16-10-58
16:21:17 [danja]: clear enough
16:21:41 [DanC]: chimezie, do you want the machine to draft minutes? or do you want to use scribe.perl offline, or something else?
16:21:58 [chimezie]: could you have it draft the minutes?
16:21:58 [DanC]: Fabien: I'm out next week.
16:22:02 [DanC]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:22:02 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-minutes.html DanC
16:23:46 [DanC]: ACTION DanC: get CVS/ssh access for Fabien
16:24:20 [danja]: I will, if no-one else jumps forward
16:25:44 [danja]: yep, sure
16:25:54 [DanC]: (I also like mercurial/hg for decentralized version control, though I haven't deployed that in w3.org )
16:26:15 [DanC]: Zakim, list attendees
16:26:15 [Zakim]: As of this point the attendees have been DanC, FabienGandon, bwm, chimezie, HarryH, +1.314.480.aacc, Brians, [IPcaller]
16:26:32 [DanC]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:26:32 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-minutes.html DanC
16:26:49 [danja]: thanks all
16:26:58 [HarryH]: thanks!!!
16:27:20 [Zakim]: -[IPcaller]
16:27:42 [DanC]: s/RESOLUTION: Next meeting time, Wed, Aug 2006-08-23 Noon EST//
16:27:53 [DanC]: s/rather: RESOLVED/RESOLVED/
16:27:58 [DanC]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:27:58 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-minutes.html DanC
16:28:49 [HarryH]: The meeting is adjourned, although everyone is welcome to stay as long as they wish.
16:30:08 [DanC]: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2006Aug/0032.html
16:30:12 [DanC]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:30:12 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-grddl-wg-minutes.html DanC
16:30:41 [DanC]: Date: 2006/08/16 16:30:22
16:31:37 [Zakim]: -DanC
16:31:38 [Zakim]: -chimezie
16:31:42 [Zakim]: -FabienGandon
16:32:06 [Zakim]: -HarryH
16:32:07 [Zakim]: SW_GRDDL()11:00AM has ended
16:32:08 [Zakim]: Attendees were DanC, FabienGandon, bwm, chimezie, HarryH, +1.314.480.aacc, Brians, [IPcaller]
16:35:01 [danja]: danja has joined #grddl-wg
16:36:36 [HarryH]: How did people feel about that meeting?
16:37:04 [HarryH]: I myself took it as my goal to make sure we get the use-cases out on time, so I did press on that.
16:37:40 [HarryH]: But I feel the technical issues are being discussed a bit in the listserv and should (with the exception of possibly multiple pipelined transformations) should not be too hard to sort out.
16:39:27 [DanC]: RRSAgent, stop