IRC log of dawg on 2006-08-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:27:40 [RRSAgent]

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14:27:40 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/08/08-dawg-irc

14:27:45 [kendallclark]

zakim, this is DAWG

14:27:45 [Zakim]

ok, kendallclark; that matches SW_DAWG()10:30AM

14:28:09 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda+ 1. Convene [1]RDF Data Access WG meeting of Tuesday, 8 August, 2006

14:28:09 [Zakim]

agendum 1 added

14:28:30 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda+ ACTION updates

14:28:30 [Zakim]

agendum 2 added

14:29:44 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda+ Approving some value tests

14:29:44 [Zakim]

agendum 3 added

14:29:56 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda+ DAWG Formal Semantics

14:29:56 [Zakim]

agendum 4 added

14:30:13 [Zakim]

+??P6

14:30:19 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda+ A brief word about mailing list etiquette

14:30:19 [Zakim]

agendum 5 added

14:30:27 [ericP]

zakim, ??P6 is ericP

14:30:27 [Zakim]

+ericP; got it

14:30:54 [Zakim]

+PatH

14:31:01 [Zakim]

+??P12

14:31:06 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P12 is AndyS

14:31:06 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

14:32:05 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda?

14:32:05 [Zakim]

I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:

14:32:06 [Zakim]

1. 1. Convene [1]RDF Data Access WG meeting of Tuesday, 8 August, 2006 [from kendallclark]

14:32:08 [Zakim]

2. ACTION updates [from kendallclark]

14:32:09 [Zakim]

3. Approving some value tests [from kendallclark]

14:32:10 [Zakim]

4. DAWG Formal Semantics [from kendallclark]

14:32:11 [Zakim]

5. A brief word about mailing list etiquette [from kendallclark]

14:32:42 [Zakim]

+FredZ

14:33:06 [kendallclark]

zakim, who's on the phone?

14:33:06 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Kendall_Clark, ericP, PatH, AndyS, FredZ

14:37:39 [ericP]

Meeting: Data Access Working Group Telecon

14:37:48 [ericP]

Chair: Kendall Clark

14:37:53 [ericP]

Scribe: ericP

14:37:56 [fred]

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14:38:33 [kendallclark]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JulSep/0058.html

14:39:02 [ericP]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JulSep/0058 minutes from 1 Aug 2006

14:39:26 [ericP]

PROPOSED: approve minutes from 1 Aug 2006 as a true record

14:39:30 [ericP]

APPROVED

14:40:04 [ericP]

PROPOSED: meet 15 Aug at 14:30, scribe TDB

14:40:06 [ericP]

APPROVED

14:40:20 [kendallclark]

zakim, take up next agendum

14:40:20 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "1. Convene [1]RDF Data Access WG meeting of Tuesday, 8 August, 2006" taken up [from kendallclark]

14:40:29 [kendallclark]

zakim, take up agendum 2

14:40:29 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "ACTION updates" taken up [from kendallclark]

14:42:02 [ericP]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JulSep/0049 "proof" of nonmonotonicity in current text

14:42:32 [ericP]

ACTION: EricP to respond to PatH's new test with a proof of whether it's monotonic to extended datatype support

14:43:11 [ericP]

DONE

14:43:12 [ericP]

action -1

14:43:44 [ericP]

ACTION: KendallClark to reopen punctuationSyntax to take up commas in SELECT clause. CONTINUED

14:44:19 [ericP]

ACTION: LeeF to make a test case out of the nested GRAPH scenario from DAWG email list CONTINUED

14:44:30 [ericP]

ACTION: LeeF to To review rq24. CONTINUED

14:44:38 [kendallclark]

zakim, take up next agendum

14:44:38 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "1. Convene [1]RDF Data Access WG meeting of Tuesday, 8 August, 2006" taken up [from kendallclark]

14:44:55 [ericP]

CTION: PatH to To write another open world value test to add to Andy's. WITHDRAWN

14:45:18 [ericP]

ACTION: PatH to To write another open world value test to add to Andy's. WITHDRAWN

14:45:24 [ericP]

ACTION: DanC to review PFPS's comments for more test cases CONTINUED

14:45:41 [ericP]

ACTION: EricP to turn FredZ's test case sketches into tests. CONTINUED

14:46:31 [ericP]

kendallclark, what is "ACTION: take up new issue concatenated nestedOptional" ???

14:47:35 [kendallclark]

a new issue i decided to open the meeting before the June break, which I cannot at this moment describe w/out consulting the meeting minutes from that meeting

14:50:39 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda+ rq24 update?

14:50:39 [Zakim]

agendum 6 added

14:50:53 [LeeF]

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15:03:42 [ericP]

I think that "'II'^^roman:numeral = 2" has the same behavoir if backed by either "sop:value-compare(A,B) == -1" or "op:numeric-less-than(A, B)"

15:04:39 [AndyS]

"'II'^^roman:numeral = 2" is error if Roman numerals are unknown

15:05:31 [ericP]

A = B RDF termRDF termRDFterm-equal(A, B)

15:05:55 [ericP]

A = B RDF term RDF term RDFterm-equal(A, B)

15:09:15 [kendallclark]

Does anyone have a proposal for leading us out of this? It's starting to seem a bit like a morass...

15:10:16 [patH]

if I followed it, this seems to work

15:10:32 [AndyS]

I believe sop:value-comapre does it - I'm willing to flesh it out.

15:11:24 [AndyS]

It obeys the "every problem needs an extra level of indirection" maxim

15:11:36 [kendallclark]

:)

15:13:23 [patH]

whoops, that was a reference to andys mesage of a few days ago.

15:22:20 [ericP]

number = number

15:22:27 [ericP]

date = date

15:22:41 [ericP]

string = string

15:22:49 [ericP]

--------------------

15:22:58 [ericP]

IRI = IRI

15:23:04 [ericP]

bNode = bNode

15:23:06 [fred]

literal = literal: true or error

15:23:19 [fred]

iri = iri: true or false

15:23:26 [fred]

bnode = bnode: true or false

15:23:33 [fred]

allother cells always false

15:24:15 [ericP]

2=3

15:24:58 [AndyS]

Yes, Fred - that's the table I was thing of.

15:25:38 [AndyS]

bNode = literal (not bNode in query) may be valid

15:26:21 [AndyS]

Separate sameLiteral operator.

15:26:31 [AndyS]

if we want a syntactic comparision

15:31:51 [AndyS]

"(x,y)"^^:geo

15:35:42 [AndyS]

If you want help with this, do ask - I'm the one keen to have this extensibility so I feel responsible here.

15:35:51 [kendallclark]

ACTION EricP: redraft section 11 to support extensible datatypes

15:37:14 [AndyS]

sop:vaue-compare should return symbols for LE, GT, EQ and NE (or error)

15:38:05 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda

15:38:05 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'agenda', kendallclark

15:38:09 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda?

15:38:09 [Zakim]

I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:

15:38:11 [Zakim]

1. 1. Convene [1]RDF Data Access WG meeting of Tuesday, 8 August, 2006 [from kendallclark]

15:38:13 [Zakim]

3. Approving some value tests [from kendallclark]

15:38:14 [Zakim]

4. DAWG Formal Semantics [from kendallclark]

15:38:15 [Zakim]

5. A brief word about mailing list etiquette [from kendallclark]

15:38:16 [Zakim]

6. rq24 update? [from kendallclark]

15:38:29 [kendallclark]

zakim, take up agendum 4

15:38:29 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "DAWG Formal Semantics" taken up [from kendallclark]

15:39:32 [SteveH]

ok, I dont have anything to add to format sem. anyway

15:43:40 [kendallclark]

I've also heard problems re: DISTINCT because the spec doesn't really define identity sufficiently rigorously...

15:45:17 [AndyS]

DISTINCT does not mean identity because it's separated from the entailment by the algebra.

15:46:03 [AndyS]

It is systems that onlt answer BGPs that could do that - in general, there is no connection there.

15:46:08 [kendallclark]

distinct requires some notion of identity, separated from entailment, it seems to me

15:46:45 [AndyS]

It sort of has - it's term uniqueness.

15:47:42 [ericP]

i am utterly convinced that one of PatH and FredZ may be right

16:00:37 [kendallclark]

So we're 1 minute past our expire time :)

16:04:06 [Zakim]

-Kendall_Clark

16:09:00 [AndyS]

Fred -- I think the practical outcome is BGP's need a DISTINCT applied. That's easily doable.

16:30:00 [Zakim]

-ericP

16:30:12 [ericP]

weak!

16:30:46 [Zakim]

-FredZ

16:30:51 [Zakim]

-PatH

16:30:52 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended

16:30:54 [Zakim]

Attendees were Kendall_Clark, ericP, PatH, AndyS, FredZ

16:31:04 [AndyS]

EricP - we finished as you'd gone.

16:31:11 [ericP]

yeah, makes sense

16:31:18 [ericP]

i think my phone got tired

16:31:18 [AndyS]

Minutes machine?

16:31:28 [ericP]

ADJOURN

16:31:36 [ericP]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

16:31:36 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/08/08-dawg-minutes.html ericP

16:31:40 [AndyS]

Thx

16:31:45 [ericP]

RRSAgent, please make minutes public

16:31:45 [RRSAgent]

I'm logging. I don't understand 'please make minutes public', ericP. Try /msg RRSAgent help

16:31:45 [AndyS]

CU - off now.

16:31:53 [AndyS]

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18:00:03 [Zakim]

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18:01:47 [LeeF_]

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