IRC log of i18nits on 2006-07-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-i18nits-irc
13:40:19 [fsasaki]
meeting: i18n ITS working group
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chair: Yves
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scribe: Felix
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scribeNick: fsasaki
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agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0101.html
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rrsagent, make log public
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13:58:14 [Zakim]
I18N_ITS(EDIT)10:00AM has now started
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+Yves_Savourel
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+Felix
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+Diane_Stoick
14:01:32 [r12a]
zakim, dial richard
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ok, r12a; the call is being made
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+Richard
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14:03:11 [YvesS]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0101.html
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+ +49.622.776.aaaa
14:03:20 [fsasaki]
Yves: these are the topics for today
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14:04:04 [fsasaki]
topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3459
14:04:28 [fsasaki]
Yves describes the issue
14:04:57 [fsasaki]
Yves just send a mail about that, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0249.html
14:05:29 [fsasaki]
rb Common (PCDATA | Inline - ruby)*
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Felix describes the mail
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Felix: we have to think through the processing changes as well
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.. e.g. about arbitrary nesting of ITS markup
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Yves: so we have to think this through
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action: Working group to think through processing implications about applying ITS markup to other ITS markup
14:10:04 [YvesS]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0120.html
14:10:05 [fsasaki]
topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3466
14:10:50 [YvesS]
[[2-2: If an application claims to process ITS markup for the ruby data
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category or the directionality data category *in their local usages*, it
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MUST be compliant with the external specifications referenced for ruby
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or directionality.]]
14:10:57 [fsasaki]
Yves: Felix said we should say: the conformance of external specs for ruby applies only for local and not for global rules
14:11:13 [fsasaki]
Felix: and for directionality
14:11:35 [fsasaki]
Yves: I'm fine with that
14:11:52 [fsasaki]
.. but the second part of the question: do we need global rules for XHTML
14:13:17 [fsasaki]
.. you say no?
14:13:55 [r12a]
felix, please speak louder
14:17:14 [fsasaki]
felix: do we want the HTML WG to add ITS markup to their scheme?
14:17:24 [YvesS]
RI: I'm also wondering whether XHTML 1.1 would need such global rules. If it does,
14:17:24 [YvesS]
it would be a good example to cite.
14:18:34 [fsasaki]
Felix: sorry, I misunderstood, I agree with you and Richard
14:19:13 [fsasaki]
Yves: should we change 2.2 as Felix proposed at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0120.html ?
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.. no objections?
14:21:21 [fsasaki]
Richard: what spec do you use for directionality?
14:22:30 [fsasaki]
Felix: XHTML 2.0 . We might have to change that later if XHTML 2.0 is not a REC in time
14:23:36 [fsasaki]
Richard: if people use their own local markup for ruby
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.. what happens?
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.. if they use global rules
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.. does that mean they are compliant to ruby?
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Felix: what would happen to implementations that use ruby?
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.. what is the consequenses of mapping for them?
14:28:25 [fsasaki]
<its:dirRule select"//p" dir="rtl"/>
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Felix: I don't know how to implement that, e.g. dir plus directional algorithm
14:33:30 [fsasaki]
Yves: we don't have the need that ITS processes what dir or ruby allows to process
14:35:23 [fsasaki]
Felix: I agree, that is what my proposal of 2-2 says at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0120.html
14:35:29 [fsasaki]
[[2-2: If an application claims to process ITS markup for the ruby data
14:35:30 [fsasaki]
category or the directionality data category *in their local usages*, it
14:35:30 [fsasaki]
MUST be compliant with the external specifications referenced for ruby
14:35:30 [fsasaki]
or directionality.]]
14:35:51 [YvesS]
2-2: If an application claims to process ITS markup for the ruby data category or the directionality data category, it MUST be compliant with the external specifications referenced for ruby or directionality.
14:36:28 [fsasaki]
Richard: how about dropping this conformance clause?
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.. ITS is related to identifying what s.t. is
14:37:05 [fsasaki]
Yves: yes, an ITS processor does not have to implement ruby display, also in the local case
14:37:49 [fsasaki]
Richard: I had discussions what xml:lang means with the SSML people
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.. just talking about the markup is easier
14:38:17 [fsasaki]
Yves: but we have to talk about the semantics
14:39:09 [fsasaki]
topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3491
14:39:40 [YvesS]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0201
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Example 22 and 23)
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s/23)/23/
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Yves: do the ITS people agree with the example? Could we go back to i18n core with it?
14:44:28 [fsasaki]
Christian: I'm fine with the examples
14:45:17 [fsasaki]
Yves: resolution, we go back to the i18n core wg
14:46:03 [fsasaki]
Felix: I will make that for this and all other i18n core resolved issues on the weekend or next week
14:46:24 [fsasaki]
topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3494
14:46:43 [fsasaki]
Yves: I would propose not to change the naming of the attribute , Martin and Felix convinced me
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.. everybody fine with that?
14:47:29 [fsasaki]
Richard: the difference between ref and pointer is sometimes difficult
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.. to remember
14:47:52 [fsasaki]
Christian: I followed the discussion, I think we should stick with the current names
14:48:08 [fsasaki]
Yves: o.k.
14:48:26 [fsasaki]
.. Felix, did you do your action item on the data type explanation?
14:48:30 [fsasaki]
Felix: no, pending
14:48:53 [fsasaki]
topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3495
14:49:02 [YvesS]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3495#c1
14:49:13 [fsasaki]
(Proposal from Yves)
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Richard: will you not change the name of the data category?
14:51:12 [fsasaki]
Yves: no, we did not planned to
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.. should I rework the wording?
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(discussion about terms like "phrasal" and "inline" elements, or other terminology)
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Yves: do the others like my rewording?
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Christian: I'm not fine with the name "elements within text". The explanatory text is fine
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(various terms proposals: sub flow, ...)
14:58:47 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
14:59:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
15:02:36 [fsasaki]
Felix, Richard: you could have examples in the definition section
15:02:56 [fsasaki]
Richard: you also have to say that applications makes different uses of this
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.. which is fine
15:03:17 [fsasaki]
action: Yves to reword http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3495#c1 taking today's discussion into account
15:03:38 [fsasaki]
topic: call on Monday
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Yves: who can come?
15:04:21 [fsasaki]
Christian, Diane, Richard: can't come
15:04:45 [fsasaki]
Yves: so only Felix and me will be on the call
15:04:56 [fsasaki]
topic: conference in London in November
15:06:02 [fsasaki]
Christian: November 16 - 17
15:06:10 [fsasaki]
Richard: overlaps with Unicode
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Felix: don't know if I can go to Unicode, but can't promise
15:07:21 [fsasaki]
Richard: it's a good place to talk about ITS, I think
15:07:47 [fsasaki]
Christian: we only need to say who could present
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.. they would be happy to let us talk
15:09:00 [fsasaki]
Christian: could I answer them saying that we continue to discuss who would present
15:09:09 [fsasaki]
Felix: I would propose you, Christian
15:09:18 [fsasaki]
Christian: I'd like to check with Sebastian
15:09:36 [Zakim]
-Christian
15:10:29 [fsasaki]
topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3500#c2
15:10:32 [YvesS]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3495#c1
15:12:19 [fsasaki]
Yves: example where directionality uses different markup
15:12:21 [fsasaki]
<its:rules xmlns:its="http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its" its:version="1.0">
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<its:dirRule dir="rtl" selector="//*[@direction='rtlText']"/>
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</its:rules>
15:12:51 [fsasaki]
Richard: I would put the selector attribute first in the example
15:14:04 [fsasaki]
Yves: o.k. , everybody is fine with that
15:14:25 [fsasaki]
topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3502
15:14:36 [fsasaki]
Yves proposal at http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3502#c3
15:14:59 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
15:16:06 [fsasaki]
Yves: how do we visualize that in the spec?
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Richard: good question
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.. I can show you what I did recently
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15:16:34 [r12a]
http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html
15:16:47 [r12a]
http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html#ri20030726.140315918
15:18:11 [fsasaki]
Richard: if that does not work, you could have a picture
15:18:23 [r12a]
http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html#ri20060712.105633805
15:18:36 [fsasaki]
action: editors to make the visualization of the directionality example work
15:18:42 [r12a]
http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html#ri20060712.10592785
15:19:47 [Zakim]
-Richard
15:19:51 [Zakim]
-Diane_Stoick
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-Yves_Savourel
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-Felix
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I18N_ITS(EDIT)10:00AM has ended
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Attendees were Yves_Savourel, Felix, Diane_Stoick, Richard, Christian
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15:20:35 [fsasaki]
present: Christian, Diane, Felix, Richard, Yves
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regrets: Andrzej, Sebastian
15:20:51 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
15:21:08 [fsasaki]
Yves, I'll update the bugzilla entries now
15:36:27 [YvesS]
I'm back.
15:36:33 [YvesS]
yes, thanks.
15:36:40 [YvesS]
You wanted to talk?
15:37:16 [fsasaki]
as you like, now or Monday
15:37:37 [YvesS]
now.
15:37:43 [YvesS]
I can call if you want.
15:37:48 [fsasaki]
o.k., let's see if zakim still works
15:37:53 [Zakim]
I18N_ITS(EDIT)10:00AM has now started
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+Felix
15:37:59 [YvesS]
i come
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+ +1.303.516.aaaa
15:45:16 [fsasaki]
Just updated http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/issues
16:04:19 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#rec-advance
16:04:38 [fsasaki]
Duration of the implementation period: The announcement MUST indicate a minimal duration, before which the Working Group MUST NOT request a Call for Review of a Proposed Recommendation; this minimal duration is designed to allow time for comment. The announcement SHOULD also include the Working Group's estimate of the time expected to gather sufficient implementation data.
16:05:41 [fsasaki]
PR: Duration of the review: The announcement begins a review period that MUST last at least four weeks.
16:07:26 [fsasaki]
so mid september: finish last call
16:07:40 [fsasaki]
closing all items, move to CR after that
16:13:59 [Zakim]
- +1.303.516.aaaa
16:14:00 [Zakim]
-Felix
16:14:01 [Zakim]
I18N_ITS(EDIT)10:00AM has ended
16:14:02 [Zakim]
Attendees were Felix, +1.303.516.aaaa
16:33:36 [fsasaki]
rrsagent, bye
16:33:36 [RRSAgent]
I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-i18nits-actions.rdf :
16:33:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Working group to think through processing implications about applying ITS markup to other ITS markup [1]
16:33:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-i18nits-irc#T14-09-51
16:33:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Yves to reword http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3495#c1 taking today's discussion into account [2]
16:33:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-i18nits-irc#T15-03-17
16:33:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: editors to make the visualization of the directionality example work [3]
16:33:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-i18nits-irc#T15-18-36
16:33:39 [fsasaki]
zakim, bye
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