w3c logo Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) logo > EOWG home > EOWG Minutes

EOWG 28 July 2006

Agenda

Attendees

Present
Bingham, Loughborough, Doyle_Saylor, Judy, Justin_Thorp, Shadi, +61.3.981.3.aaaa, Andrew, +1.562.493.aabb, +44.207.391.aacc, Wayne, Henny, Sylvie_Duchateau\Tanguy_Lohéac, Liam_McGee, Shawn, Helle_Bjarno, Jack
Regrets
Chair
Judy
Scribe
Justin

Contents


Before after Demo

Judy: The features page is now the barriers page
... Lot of time has been spent on the evaluation report
... E-mail has sent what to focus on
... Shadi, walk people through barriers page?

Shadi: The idea is to show a before and after mini-web site
... Before is inaccessible, After accessible, evaluation report
... The evaluation report still needs to be expanded
... We have a quite a wide range of audience.

William: Is the barriers page the first thing people see?

Shadi: We will get to that question in a bit.

<shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/2005/Demo/after/

Shadi: This is what the demo page looks like.
... We want to look at the top content bar part of the page.
... The Top bar links to the demonstration, list of barriers, and inaccessible version.
... Everyone select the link - List of Barriers
... Next to each barrier there is a link to the evaluation report
... The barriers page gives people a high level view of what's inaccessible on that page

William: The barriers page should have a banner on the top like the others

Shadi: The logo was to help with branding.
... But we wanted to help distinguish from the content pages and the demo pages

Wayne: Nothing identifies what version you are looking at.

Henny: It needs more of an identification of what your on. The demonstration link should identify that you're going to the overview.

<shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/2005/Demo/after/form.html

Shadi: Everyone go to the forms/survey page
... On the forms page we have a less verbose top banner. Previous questions want more identification of where they are.

Harvey: We should tell people that its part of accessible set of pages.

Andrew: It should say barriers addressed.

Doyle: I agree

William: I'm not sure ...I think we are building this terse version of the page for ourselves and not for newcomers

Shadi: We can clearer in our links

<Andrew> Andrew: also "Inaccessible version"

Shadi: Which version of the navigation should we use?

Henny: Keep the options simple and clear but give it a label.

Andrew: Agrees

Liam: Prefers the sentence because its clearer

Henny: If its going to be a sentence, i needs to be a better written sentence

Shadi: We will have to address the issue "accessible version of what?"

Sylvie: I am not sure what question what solution we are preferring

Shadi: the home page has a full sentence for the top navigation...on the forms page it is just 3 links in brackets

Sylvie: It sounds not consistent enough.

Shadi: The way to know where you are is through color coding or invisible text for a screen reader

<scribe> ACTION: Shadi, Make top navigation for B.A.D. clearer, rework the sentence [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-eo-minutes.html#action01]

Andrew: Can you mind not centering the text?

Shadi: I don't mind.

Justin: Why does it link to an anchor of the barriers page?

Shadi: Each page will link to their list of barriers on that page

Wayne: I didn't pick up on that functionality.

Justin: When I jump into the middle of the page, I don't know where I am

Shadi: Option 1 - better titles; Option 2 - Jump to the top of the page

Shawn: Am I going to know what page in the suite I am on?

Shadi: Should know where you are on the after, harder on the before page

Wayne: If we had some type of orientation piece

Shawn: Whenever you come to a question of usability...one way is better for novice and one way is better for repeat users.
... should it be better for novice or advanced users?

Judy: With other suites, it has been really novice orientated... For this, I'd hope that it'd be a resource for beginners to show to their managers
... The biggest impact is for novice users
... I'd lean more in the direction of novice users
... has the document changed so much?

Shadi: How annoying will it be for advanced users? Is it clear where you came from in the first place?

Andrew: I don't think its any more annoying.

Henny: If you have clear links, it will work

Group: the list of barriers should jump to the top of the page

Wayne: Don't know where I am

Shawn: Maybe put it into the top page that says where you are and maybe in the barriers page it says where you came from

Shadi: Anything else on the top banner?

Wayne: the really bright colors across the top would start to get annoying.

Judy: agrees

Shadi: We chose colors that you could hopefully filter it out.

Wayne: I think the color is too strong:

Judy and William: Agrees

<Andrew> Andrew: color contrast test for after page - color difference:256 / brightness difference:119

<scribe> ACTION: shadi, link for list of barriers should jump to the top of the page and should tell you where you came from [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-eo-minutes.html#action02]

Shadi: We want a color that is less aggressive.

Wayne: We want things to be more muted.

Shadi: Its nice because its fulfilling its content.

Wayne: Its hard to study the page with it up there.

<scribe> ACTION: shadi, work on another kind of color scheme [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-eo-minutes.html#action03]

Shadi: We talked about a way of collapsing

Shawn: I wanted to click on the image in the top bar.

Shadi: What's the proposal?

Shawn: Did others have that issue?

Henny: I clicked on it.

Shadi: Do we make it link to something or do we take it away?
... The idea was to give it a common look and feel.

Shawn: Have we talked about navigation between the different pages in the suite?

Shadi: There are four links but we are showing three.

Shawn: People will be jumping around, the overview page looks like a WAI page, the barriers page maybe look like the demo page
... The icon could link to the overview page.

Andrew: Would the icon take me to a list where I could get to everything quickly

Shadi: We have site index page off the overview

William: What about having a pull down menu that takes you to all the parts of the suite?

Shawn: Doesn't do anything for me

Andrew: I am not sure how you could make it a menu.

Shadi: Jump to site map or jump to overview page
... unless there are some pressing issues, i'd like to go to the list of barriers
... There was a proposal to make this look more like an demo page.
... This isn't demo content, this is real content
... Anybody disagree

Andrew: Prefer to keep the demo pages like the WAI

Shawn: Look at eval

Andrew: That'd be okay

Shawn: I don't think it should look like a city lights page...but it has the similar banner navigation.
... the idea is to make the banner between the pages persist...the visual change over isn't as abrupt.

Wayne: What if the logo was a little more meaningful

Henny: It needs to plug into the WAI web site

William: The overview page shows these things as a unit.

Wayne: I think the list of barriers looks like its part of the WAI site

Shawn: Would they look at the overview page once every know and then

Henny: It is quite a big visual jump

Judy: I'm not sure which frame work, if its going to be a w3c page, it needs to have a good visual identification with the demo...if its going to look like the eval page it needs something more that looks like WAI page

Shadi: The change of styles can be a bit of a problem.
... Can we set it up a bit differently when your jumping around that it makes more sense

William: This is part of the WAI thing not part of the demo thing

Shadi: Would it make sense to have this page in a different look and feel and see how that works?

Liam: Yes

Shadi: Maybe if we had two versions side by side, maybe that would help

Judy: Content of the barriers page

Shadi: If time allows, i'd like to look at this list of barriers
... How does the title work

Wayne: I knew what it meant right away

Harvey: going to the val report, i get bogged down in the evaluation report.

Andrew: 3rd sentence doesn't make sense
... In the intro

Shadi: Home Page Barriers section
... we have an sub section called barriers...how will we deal with that

Judy: the list of inaccessible and accessible home page shouldn't be linked listed item
... I had visualized a page icon with an x through it or a page icon with check through it

Shadi: This is not an exclusive list of all the barriers

Andrew: If it was a sentence i'd be forced to read the sentence to the accessible version or inaccessible version
... with the list it worked really well for me

Shawn: I had the same reaction

Shadi: How could we rename the sub section under the home page barriers
... editors descretion?

Shawn: What about leaving it as is?

Wayne: My barriers in the section header was when we were jumping
... I agree with shawn

<scribe> ACTION: shadi, leave all barrier page headings as they are [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-eo-minutes.html#action04]

Shadi: Do we need to add a note that is some of barriers on every subsection?

Shawn: No

Andrew: I should have read the introduction

Shawn: What happens if there are some that missed
... Move the template to the intro

Shadi: I'd like to hear about the link to the evaluation report
... it jumps into the evaluation report
... the eval report link gets repetitive

Andrew: I found this structure fine...the repetitive stuff was okay
... I didn't mind that I was jump into the page b/c i was being told that in my link

Wayne the repetition doesn't bother me

Shadi: Lets go through each list item one by one
... #1
... We have audience of technical and not technical users

Wayne: What do you mean by coding?

Shawn: Don't most people know code

Shadi: You can identify visually its not "coded" correctly

#4

Andrew: Different sentence structure

Henny: Instead of ambiguous use uninformative

Shadi: Ambiguous is supposed to be more of an umbrella term

Judy: How about unclear

Shawn: But it is clear

Shadi: #5

Doyle: Text is lost off page when text size is decreased

William: What if you increased the text size using a magnifier

Shadi: Then your zooming into the page

Andrew: The text isn't getting lost in inaccessible version

Shadi: Lets imagine it works

Wayne: You could put text may disappear

Shadi: Change disappear to not be readable

Shawn: How come it may not be readable
... Doyle suggested hidden

Wayne: I think hidden maybe a good word

Judy: Can we look at the sections and see if the are any that need to be worked on

Shadi: It explains in the news article section why it doesn't work

Andrew: The font sizes can be introduced in firefox

William: This says the page can not be read without style sheets

Shadi: The tickets page

William: Markup and code in the first one

Shadi: The survey form page
... The template page - this was originally at the top. this note would disappear

Andrew: Do we need to include what a template is

Wayne: The template page is listed like its another page...its not a page...its a template for all the other pages

Judy: Isn't the template barriers important for understanding the rest of the barriers

Wayne: Just don't want it to look like every other pages
... I like where it is just want it be differentiated

<Andrew> Andrew: what about calling it "page template" rather than "template page"?

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: shadi, leave all barrier page headings as they are [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-eo-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: shadi, link for list of barriers should jump to the top of the page and should tell you where you came from [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-eo-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Shadi, Make top navigation for B.A.D. clearer, rework the sentence [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-eo-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: shadi, work on another kind of color scheme [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-eo-minutes.html#action03]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.127 (CVS log)
$Date: 2006/09/15 00:43:41 $