IRC log of xproc on 2006-07-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:12:17 [RRSAgent]
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14:12:17 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:12:18 [Zakim]
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14:12:21 [Norm]
zakim, this will be xproc
14:12:21 [Zakim]
ok, Norm; I see XML_PMWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 48 minutes
14:18:38 [MoZ]
Hi Norm
14:18:42 [MoZ]
hi MSM
14:44:57 [rlopes]
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14:49:28 [MSM]
Hi, MoZ
14:51:15 [Norm]
1. Finish the syntax wrangling
14:51:22 [Norm]
2. Define the core language constructs
14:51:38 [Norm]
3. Make a first pass at identifying a list of required components
14:51:51 [Norm]
4. Make a list of standard but optional components (if any)
14:51:57 [Norm]
5. Review our open issues
14:52:00 [Norm]
What's missing?
14:55:32 [Zakim]
XML_PMWG()11:00AM has now started
14:55:39 [Zakim]
14:55:48 [Alessandro]
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14:55:49 [rlopes]
zakim, [IP is Rui
14:55:49 [Zakim]
+Rui; got it
14:56:42 [rlopes]
15:56 over here
14:56:44 [rlopes]
14:57:03 [Norm]
Yeah, ok, it's about xx:56 here too
14:57:17 [rlopes]
and finally I had no trouble logging in with the passcode
14:57:41 [MoZ]
Zakim, what is the code?
14:57:41 [Zakim]
the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), MoZ
14:58:09 [Zakim]
14:58:59 [Norm]
Meeting: XML Processing Model WG
14:58:59 [Norm]
Scribe: Norm
14:58:59 [Norm]
ScribeNick: Norm
14:58:59 [Norm]
Date: 27 July 2006
14:58:59 [Norm]
Chair: Norm
14:59:00 [Norm]
14:59:02 [Norm]
Meeting: 30
15:00:09 [Zakim]
15:00:19 [Norm]
zakim, ??P6 is MoZ
15:00:23 [Zakim]
+MoZ; got it
15:01:24 [Zakim]
15:01:45 [Norm]
zakim, who's on the phone?
15:01:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Rui, Norm, MoZ, Alessandro_Vernet
15:03:25 [richard]
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15:03:37 [richard]
I'll be on the phone in a minute...
15:03:39 [AndrewF]
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15:03:46 [Norm]
Ok, richard
15:04:16 [Zakim]
15:04:22 [Norm]
zakim, ??p5 is AndrewF
15:04:22 [Zakim]
+AndrewF; got it
15:05:28 [Zakim]
15:05:36 [Zakim]
15:05:37 [richard]
zakim, ? is richard
15:05:37 [Zakim]
+richard; got it
15:06:04 [Norm]
zakim, who's on the phone?
15:06:04 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Rui, Norm, MoZ, Alessandro_Vernet, AndrewF, Alex_Milowski, richard
15:06:52 [Norm]
MSM, are you planning to join us?
15:08:38 [Norm]
Present: Alex, Alessandro, Andrew, Mohamed, Norman, Richard, Rui
15:08:42 [Norm]
Regrets: Paul
15:08:48 [Norm]
Topic: Accept this agenda?
15:08:48 [Norm]
15:08:56 [Norm]
15:09:00 [Norm]
Topic: Accept minutes from the previous teleconference?
15:09:00 [Norm]
15:09:13 [MSM]
zakim, please call Michael-Office
15:09:13 [Zakim]
ok, MSM; the call is being made
15:09:17 [Norm]
15:09:22 [Norm]
15:09:26 [Norm]
Topic: Next meeting: Face-to-face: 2-4 Aug 2006
15:09:26 [Norm]
Make sure your arrangements are in order.
15:09:38 [MSM]
zakim, please call Michael-Office
15:09:38 [Zakim]
ok, MSM; the call is being made
15:09:51 [Norm]
Topic: Review of open action items
15:09:56 [Norm]
A-23-02: Richard to write a syntax proposal
15:10:12 [Norm]
15:10:17 [Norm]
A-13-01: MSM to draft a complete table; ETA: 20 July 2006
15:10:30 [MSM]
zakim, please call Michael-Office
15:10:30 [Zakim]
ok, MSM; the call is being made
15:11:11 [Norm]
Topic: Agenda for the f2f
15:11:19 [Zakim]
15:11:50 [Norm]
15:13:11 [MSM]
zakim, what call is this?
15:13:11 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, MSM.
15:13:18 [MSM]
zakim, what's the code?
15:13:18 [Zakim]
the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), MSM
15:13:33 [Zakim]
15:13:52 [MoZ]
Thanks Murray
15:14:22 [Zakim]
15:14:49 [alexmilowski]
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15:14:55 [Norm]
zakim, ??P6 is MoZ
15:14:55 [Zakim]
+MoZ; got it
15:15:53 [Zakim]
15:15:59 [Zakim]
15:16:13 [Zakim]
15:16:38 [Norm]
1. Finish the syntax wrangling
15:16:38 [Norm]
2. Define the core language constructs
15:16:38 [Norm]
3. Make a first pass at identifying a list of required components
15:16:38 [Norm]
4. Make a list of standard but optional components (if any)
15:16:38 [Norm]
5. Review our open issues
15:17:50 [Norm]
Norm will try to draft an agenda this week
15:19:08 [Norm]
Topic: XProc syntax
15:19:47 [Norm]
Lots of good discussion on the list, any burning issues?
15:19:49 [Norm]
None suggested.
15:20:54 [Alessandro]
15:20:56 [Norm]
Alessandro's proposal:
15:21:16 [Norm]
Alex suggests looking at for-each
15:21:49 [Norm]
Alessandro: On the for-each it looks like we want to reference a sequence of documents that we want to iterate on, we want the option of providing an XPath expression.
15:22:39 [Norm]
...In the for-each we need to be able name the outputs
15:23:11 [Norm]
Norm didn something alternate
15:23:14 [Norm]
15:23:59 [Norm]
Alex: If you're iterating over a document and using an XPath expression, you have to specify a replacement
15:24:10 [Norm]
...When you're iterating over a sequence of documents, that's not necessarily true.
15:24:27 [Norm]
...There are way more options when you're iterating over a collection of documents.
15:25:39 [Norm]
Some discussion of whether we're talking about for-each or peephole
15:26:47 [Norm]
Norm tries to outline how for-each and peephole differ. For-each just returns the sequence of things generated, peephole wraps the original document around the replaced matches.
15:29:28 [Norm]
Richard: I think there should be something that does a body for each document in a sequence and something else that does each matched part in a single document.
15:30:19 [Norm]
Norm: We could have for-each and for-each-document, I just didn't think it was necessary.
15:30:40 [Norm]
Richard: The output is a sequence of documents. The peephole mechanism can be build out of that, I think.
15:31:27 [Norm]
Richard: A component that takes the original and an XPath and a sequence of documents, the sequence could be plugged in where the matches occurred.
15:31:39 [Norm]
Alex: It could be done that way, but I'm not sure I want to do it that way.
15:33:14 [Norm]
Norm wonders if there's a practical use for a component that works that way.
15:33:27 [Norm]
Richard proposes that there are some uses, whether they're practical or not...
15:35:07 [Norm]
Some more discussion of how for-each and peephole are similar.
15:35:19 [Norm]
Richard: Do they between them cover all the looping functionality we need?
15:35:38 [Norm]
Alex: Can we add a peephole/viewport element?
15:36:11 [Norm]
Alex: I don't much like "peephole".
15:36:25 [Norm]
Norm: Anyone like peephole better than viewport?
15:36:35 [Norm]
Murray: I don't like either.
15:37:20 [Norm]
15:37:57 [Norm]
Norm asks about for-each-output and observes he tried to show how declare-output could be used in each case.
15:38:45 [Norm]
Norm: On the subject of name, I assume we're still sort of evenly divided about how we want to do the naming.
15:38:50 [Norm]
Yeah, pretty much.
15:40:22 [Norm]
Richard: On for-each, the name attribute is used for the binding. Does that make it a variable?
15:40:27 [Norm]
Alessandro: Yes.
15:40:29 [Norm]
Norm: Huh?
15:40:46 [Norm]
Alessandro: No, actually, it's just used when you want to ref= to the output.
15:41:42 [Norm]
Murray: I don't understand why we have ref= and href=
15:41:54 [Norm]
Norm: I think we might be able to combine them.
15:43:28 [Norm]
Some discussion of the direction things flow
15:47:52 [Norm]
Alessandro: In my example, the direction is the same
15:48:02 [Norm]
15:48:19 [Norm]
Norm: I see, the name is repeated. This really only works in the case where you name individual outputs.
15:48:51 [Norm]
...If you were using the compound naming system, then each when would have to have a *step* with the same name and that step would have to have an output port with the same name, in order to make this work.
15:49:09 [Norm]
...So if we go with #name/port it's much harder to always point from the output to the input in the conditional case
15:49:24 [Norm]
...(Where "much harder" means "impossible", I think)
15:50:09 [Norm]
Richard: When I was thinking about conditionals, I was going to have each of the when's declare their outputs.
15:50:17 [Norm]
...Then the choose referred to those names.
15:50:34 [Norm]
Norm: Yes, that would work as well, but it's pretty verbose to have to declare all the outputs on every branch.
15:54:06 [Norm]
Scribe apologizes for failure to capture several minutes of minutes...
15:54:19 [Norm]
Murray: Can't the p:when output's bubble up?
15:54:27 [Norm]
Norm: Not when there's more than one output from the p:choose
15:54:48 [Zakim]
15:54:49 [Norm]
Richard: But when there is only one, we might be able to abbreviate it
15:55:04 [Norm]
Norm: Yes, and it's the idea of abbreviations in the future that makes me have a slight preference for the compound naming choice.
15:55:56 [Norm]
Topic: Any other business?
15:56:02 [Norm]
15:56:04 [Norm]
15:56:17 [Zakim]
15:56:18 [Zakim]
15:56:19 [Zakim]
15:56:19 [Zakim]
15:56:20 [Zakim]
15:56:20 [Zakim]
15:56:21 [Zakim]
15:56:26 [Zakim]
15:56:27 [Zakim]
XML_PMWG()11:00AM has ended
15:56:28 [Zakim]
Attendees were [IPcaller], Rui, Norm, MoZ, Alessandro_Vernet, AndrewF, Alex_Milowski, richard, Murray_Maloney, Michael
15:56:34 [Norm]
rrsagent, please make logs world-visible
15:56:40 [Norm]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:56:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Norm
16:10:09 [alexmilowski]
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18:00:52 [Norm]
rrsagent, bye
18:00:52 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items