14:12:17 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #xproc
14:12:17 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/07/27-xproc-irc
14:12:18 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #xproc
14:12:21 <Norm> zakim, this will be xproc
14:12:21 <Zakim> ok, Norm; I see XML_PMWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 48 minutes
14:18:38 <MoZ> Hi Norm
14:18:42 <MoZ> hi MSM
14:44:57 <rlopes> rlopes has joined #xproc
14:49:28 <MSM> Hi, MoZ
14:51:15 <Norm> 1. Finish the syntax wrangling
14:51:22 <Norm> 2. Define the core language constructs
14:51:38 <Norm> 3. Make a first pass at identifying a list of required components
14:51:51 <Norm> 4. Make a list of standard but optional components (if any)
14:51:57 <Norm> 5. Review our open issues
14:52:00 <Norm> What's missing?
14:55:32 <Zakim> XML_PMWG()11:00AM has now started
14:55:39 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:55:48 <Alessandro> Alessandro has joined #xproc
14:55:49 <rlopes> zakim, [IP is Rui
14:55:49 <Zakim> +Rui; got it
14:56:42 <rlopes> 15:56 over here
14:56:44 <rlopes> :)
14:57:03 <Norm> Yeah, ok, it's about xx:56 here too
14:57:17 <rlopes> and finally I had no trouble logging in with the passcode
14:57:41 <MoZ> Zakim, what is the code?
14:57:41 <Zakim> the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), MoZ
14:58:09 <Zakim> +Norm
14:58:59 <Norm> Meeting: XML Processing Model WG
14:58:59 <Norm> Scribe: Norm
14:58:59 <Norm> ScribeNick: Norm
14:58:59 <Norm> Date: 27 July 2006
14:58:59 <Norm> Chair: Norm
14:59:00 <Norm> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2006/07/27-agenda.html
14:59:02 <Norm> Meeting: 30
15:00:09 <Zakim> +??P6
15:00:19 <Norm> zakim, ??P6 is MoZ 
15:00:23 <Zakim> +MoZ; got it
15:01:24 <Zakim> +Alessandro_Vernet
15:01:45 <Norm> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:01:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see Rui, Norm, MoZ, Alessandro_Vernet
15:03:25 <richard> richard has joined #xproc
15:03:37 <richard> I'll be on the phone in a minute...
15:03:39 <AndrewF> AndrewF has joined #xproc
15:03:46 <Norm> Ok, richard 
15:04:16 <Zakim> +??P5
15:04:22 <Norm> zakim, ??p5 is AndrewF 
15:04:22 <Zakim> +AndrewF; got it
15:05:28 <Zakim> +Alex_Milowski
15:05:36 <Zakim> +??P4
15:05:37 <richard> zakim, ? is richard
15:05:37 <Zakim> +richard; got it
15:06:04 <Norm> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:06:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see Rui, Norm, MoZ, Alessandro_Vernet, AndrewF, Alex_Milowski, richard
15:06:52 <Norm> MSM, are you planning to join us?
15:08:38 <Norm> Present: Alex, Alessandro, Andrew, Mohamed, Norman, Richard, Rui
15:08:42 <Norm> Regrets: Paul
15:08:48 <Norm> Topic: Accept this agenda?
15:08:48 <Norm> -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2006/07/27-agenda.html
15:08:56 <Norm> Accepted.
15:09:00 <Norm> Topic: Accept minutes from the previous teleconference?
15:09:00 <Norm> -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2006/06/20-minutes.html
15:09:13 <MSM> zakim, please call Michael-Office
15:09:13 <Zakim> ok, MSM; the call is being made
15:09:17 <Norm> -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2006/07/20-minutes.html
15:09:22 <Norm> Accepted.
15:09:26 <Norm> Topic: Next meeting: Face-to-face: 2-4 Aug 2006
15:09:26 <Norm> Make sure your arrangements are in order.
15:09:38 <MSM> zakim, please call Michael-Office
15:09:38 <Zakim> ok, MSM; the call is being made
15:09:51 <Norm> Topic: Review of open action items
15:09:56 <Norm> A-23-02: Richard to write a syntax proposal
15:10:12 <Norm> Withdrawn.
15:10:17 <Norm> A-13-01: MSM to draft a complete table; ETA: 20 July 2006
15:10:30 <MSM> zakim, please call Michael-Office
15:10:30 <Zakim> ok, MSM; the call is being made
15:11:11 <Norm> Topic: Agenda for the f2f
15:11:19 <Zakim> +Murray_Maloney
15:11:50 <Norm> Continued.
15:13:11 <MSM> zakim, what call is this?
15:13:11 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, MSM.
15:13:18 <MSM> zakim, what's the code?
15:13:18 <Zakim> the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), MSM
15:13:33 <Zakim> -MoZ
15:13:52 <MoZ> Thanks Murray
15:14:22 <Zakim> +??P6
15:14:49 <alexmilowski> alexmilowski has joined #xproc
15:14:55 <Norm> zakim, ??P6 is MoZ 
15:14:55 <Zakim> +MoZ; got it
15:15:53 <Zakim> +Michael
15:15:59 <Zakim> -Michael
15:16:13 <Zakim> +Michael
15:16:38 <Norm> 1. Finish the syntax wrangling
15:16:38 <Norm> 2. Define the core language constructs
15:16:38 <Norm> 3. Make a first pass at identifying a list of required components
15:16:38 <Norm> 4. Make a list of standard but optional components (if any)
15:16:38 <Norm> 5. Review our open issues
15:17:50 <Norm> Norm will try to draft an agenda this week
15:19:08 <Norm> Topic: XProc syntax
15:19:47 <Norm> Lots of good discussion on the list, any burning issues?
15:19:49 <Norm> None suggested.
15:20:54 <Alessandro> http://avernet.googlepages.com/xproc-syntax
15:20:56 <Norm> Alessandro's proposal:
15:21:16 <Norm> Alex suggests looking at for-each
15:21:49 <Norm> Alessandro: On the for-each it looks like we want to reference a sequence of documents that we want to iterate on, we want the option of providing an XPath expression.
15:22:39 <Norm> ...In the for-each we need to be able name the outputs
15:23:11 <Norm> Norm didn something alternate
15:23:14 <Norm> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2006Jul/0138.html
15:23:59 <Norm> Alex: If you're iterating over a document and using an XPath expression, you have to specify a replacement
15:24:10 <Norm> ...When you're iterating over a sequence of documents, that's not necessarily true.
15:24:27 <Norm> ...There are way more options when you're iterating over a collection of documents.
15:25:39 <Norm> Some discussion of whether we're talking about for-each or peephole
15:26:47 <Norm> Norm tries to outline how for-each and peephole differ. For-each just returns the sequence of things generated, peephole wraps the original document around the replaced matches.
15:29:28 <Norm> Richard: I think there should be something that does a body for each document in a sequence and something else that does each matched part in a single document.
15:30:19 <Norm> Norm: We could have for-each and for-each-document, I just didn't think it was necessary.
15:30:40 <Norm> Richard: The output is a sequence of documents. The peephole mechanism can be build out of that, I think.
15:31:27 <Norm> Richard: A component that takes the original and an XPath and a sequence of documents, the sequence could be plugged in where the matches occurred.
15:31:39 <Norm> Alex: It could be done that way, but I'm not sure I want to do it that way.
15:33:14 <Norm> Norm wonders if there's a practical use for a component that works that way.
15:33:27 <Norm> Richard proposes that there are some uses, whether they're practical or not...
15:35:07 <Norm> Some more discussion of how for-each and peephole are similar.
15:35:19 <Norm> Richard: Do they between them cover all the looping functionality we need?
15:35:38 <Norm> Alex: Can we add a peephole/viewport element?
15:36:11 <Norm> Alex: I don't much like "peephole".
15:36:25 <Norm> Norm: Anyone like peephole better than viewport?
15:36:35 <Norm> Murray: I don't like either.
15:37:20 <Norm> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2006Jul/0138.html
15:37:57 <Norm> Norm asks about for-each-output and observes he tried to show how declare-output could be used in each case.
15:38:45 <Norm> Norm: On the subject of name, I assume we're still sort of evenly divided about how we want to do the naming.
15:38:50 <Norm> Yeah, pretty much.
15:40:22 <Norm> Richard: On for-each, the name attribute is used for the binding. Does that make it a variable?
15:40:27 <Norm> Alessandro: Yes.
15:40:29 <Norm> Norm: Huh?
15:40:46 <Norm> Alessandro: No, actually, it's just used when you want to ref= to the output.
15:41:42 <Norm> Murray: I don't understand why we have ref= and href=
15:41:54 <Norm> Norm: I think we might be able to combine them.
15:43:28 <Norm> Some discussion of the direction things flow
15:47:52 <Norm> Alessandro: In my example, the direction is the same
15:48:02 <Norm> -> http://avernet.googlepages.com/xproc-syntax-parse-import
15:48:19 <Norm> Norm: I see, the name is repeated. This really only works in the case where you name individual outputs.
15:48:51 <Norm> ...If you were using the compound naming system, then each when would have to have a *step* with the same name and that step would have to have an output port with the same name, in order to make this work.
15:49:09 <Norm> ...So if we go with #name/port it's much harder to always point from the output to the input in the conditional case
15:49:24 <Norm> ...(Where "much harder" means "impossible", I think)
15:50:09 <Norm> Richard: When I was thinking about conditionals, I was going to have each of the when's declare their outputs.
15:50:17 <Norm> ...Then the choose referred to those names.
15:50:34 <Norm> Norm: Yes, that would work as well, but it's pretty verbose to have to declare all the outputs on every branch.
15:54:06 <Norm> Scribe apologizes for failure to capture several minutes of minutes...
15:54:19 <Norm> Murray: Can't the p:when output's bubble up?
15:54:27 <Norm> Norm: Not when there's more than one output from the p:choose
15:54:48 <Zakim> -Alex_Milowski
15:54:49 <Norm> Richard: But when there is only one, we might be able to abbreviate it
15:55:04 <Norm> Norm: Yes, and it's the idea of abbreviations in the future that makes me have a slight preference for the compound naming choice.
15:55:56 <Norm> Topic: Any other business?
15:56:02 <Norm> None.
15:56:04 <Norm> Adjourned.
15:56:17 <Zakim> -Murray_Maloney
15:56:18 <Zakim> -Norm
15:56:19 <Zakim> -richard
15:56:19 <Zakim> -Rui
15:56:20 <Zakim> -Alessandro_Vernet
15:56:20 <Zakim> -MoZ
15:56:21 <Zakim> -AndrewF
15:56:26 <Zakim> -Michael
15:56:27 <Zakim> XML_PMWG()11:00AM has ended
15:56:28 <Zakim> Attendees were [IPcaller], Rui, Norm, MoZ, Alessandro_Vernet, AndrewF, Alex_Milowski, richard, Murray_Maloney, Michael
15:56:34 <Norm> rrsagent, please make logs world-visible
15:56:40 <Norm> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:56:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/27-xproc-minutes.html Norm
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18:00:52 <Norm> rrsagent, bye
18:00:52 <RRSAgent> I see no action items