14:59:12 RRSAgent has joined #xmlcore 14:59:12 logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/07/26-xmlcore-irc 14:59:23 Norm has changed the topic to: XML Core: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-core-wg/2006Jul/0016.html 14:59:27 Meeting: XML Core 14:59:27 Scribe: Norm 14:59:27 ScribeNick: Norm 14:59:27 Date: 26 July 2006 14:59:27 Chair: Norm 14:59:28 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-core-wg/2006Jul/0016.html 15:00:26 ht has joined #xmlcore 15:00:34 zakim, please call ht-781 15:00:34 ok, ht; the call is being made 15:00:35 XML_Core()11:00AM has now started 15:00:37 +Ht 15:00:56 +[Sun] 15:01:11 +Norm 15:01:22 zakim, who's here? 15:01:22 On the phone I see Ht, [Sun], Norm 15:01:23 On IRC I see ht, RRSAgent, Ravi, Zakim, Norm, klanz2 15:01:41 fyergeau has joined #xmlcore 15:01:58 zakim, [Sun is Leonid 15:01:58 +Leonid; got it 15:02:21 Regrets: Paul 15:02:31 +??P11 15:02:41 zakim, ? is klanz2 15:02:41 +klanz2; got it 15:02:47 zakim, who's on the phone? 15:02:47 On the phone I see Ht, Leonid, Norm, klanz2 15:03:01 -klanz2 15:03:06 phone line was cut 15:03:48 +??P16 15:03:51 zakim, ? is klanz2 15:03:51 +klanz2; got it 15:04:28 zakim, who's on the phone? 15:04:28 On the phone I see Ht, Leonid, Norm, klanz2 15:04:44 DV has joined #xmlcore 15:05:04 +[IPcaller] 15:05:05 richard has joined #xmlcore 15:05:11 zakim, [ is fyergeau 15:05:11 +fyergeau; got it 15:05:16 +??P20 15:05:16 zakim, ? is richard 15:05:17 +richard; got it 15:05:20 +Glenn 15:05:24 zakim, who's on the phone? 15:05:24 On the phone I see Ht, Leonid, Norm, klanz2, fyergeau, richard, Glenn 15:05:31 +DV 15:05:33 and DV 15:06:04 35 degrees here, it's a bit hard 15:06:15 jose has joined #xmlcore 15:06:32 zakim, dial jose-617 15:06:32 ok, jose; the call is being made 15:06:34 +Jose 15:06:54 Present: Henry, Leonid, Norm, Konrad, Francois, Richard, Glenn, Jose 15:07:06 zakim, mute me 15:07:06 Jose should now be muted 15:07:17 Present: Henry, Leonid, Norm, Konrad, Francois, Richard, Glenn, Jose, Daniel 15:07:39 Topic: Accept this agenda 15:07:39 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-core-wg/2006Jul/0016.html 15:08:19 Henry: Please discuss milestone dates for XLink and C14N for draft charter 15:08:29 Henry: XLink comment: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-xml-linking-comments/2006AprJun/0001.html 15:09:05 Henry: And revised publication date for edited Recommendations 15:09:33 Accepted with those additions 15:09:37 Topic: Approval of minutes 15:10:03 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-core-wg/2006Jun/0054 15:10:06 Accepted. 15:10:19 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/Core#tasks 15:10:41 Norm: that looks right to me 15:10:54 Any other administrivia? Document reviews? 15:10:57 None suggested. 15:11:02 Topic: C14N 15:11:16 We have a proposed note 15:11:21 -> http://www.w3.org/2006/04/c14n-note 15:11:41 Konrad: Suggested text posted to the list; Richard replied and work is underway. 15:11:44 http://www.w3.org/2006/04/c14n-note/c14n-note.html 15:11:53 ...Also trying to get familiar with publication rules. 15:12:18 ...A diff will be available soon. 15:12:33 ...Hopefully we'll be able to agree on this after I publish the updates. 15:13:34 Glenn: At this point, is it basically that when Konrad and Richard come to an agreement we're ready to go? 15:13:47 Norm: It's been a while, I'll try to take another look. 15:14:28 Glenn: Every time wording has been proposed, it's kicked off another round of discussion. 15:14:56 Norm: We've all had a few weeks off 15:15:06 Richard: I think we reached agreement about what the algorithm should be. 15:15:16 Glenn: Right, but we were discussing the actual wording 15:15:31 Richard: I sent in my comments, if those are accepted, I'll be happy. 15:15:39 Konrad: I'm not sure I understand the comments. 15:16:35 Glenn: So we believe we're at a point where there's candidate wording and we're just about done 15:17:30 Norm: Do you understand the comments, Konrad? 15:17:38 Konrad: Yes, I think I do. I've just got one more action to do. 15:18:21 konrad, I can help you with the pubrules. It's much more easier than you think 15:18:23 We should all read the next draft when it's published 15:18:49 Topic: xml:base, [baseURI], and IRIs 15:19:21 We'll come back to this after the edited Recommendations are published 15:19:28 Topix: XLink 15:19:40 Norm: I've had no time to work on this. Maybe by late August. 15:19:44 ETOOMANYX 15:20:15 XLink comment: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-xml-linking-comments/2006AprJun/0001.html 15:20:47 s/ XLink/XLink 15:21:08 Henry: Boris says we haven't replied in four months and they need one. 15:21:29 Norm: Yeah, we should reply. I thought we would after the end of the comment period, we've just been distracted by other things 15:23:52 Norm: We might like XLink to say that support for xlink:actuate="onRequest" is more than a should, but is that the sort of change we want to make in 1.1? 15:23:57 Henry: That's not how I read RFC 2119 SHOULD. 15:24:30 Richard: I think you could analyze each xlink:actuate and say something more specific. 15:24:57 Henry: I don't agree with either of his conclusions. Without further information, I don't know why you didn't do the SHOULD. 15:25:06 ...His second suggestion is downright contrary to what the spec says. 15:25:51 ...Either you should implement the SHOULD or give a reason why not. 15:26:11 ...Other behavior is willfully unhelpful and we don't have to explicitly outlaw that. 15:26:45 RFC 2119: "SHOULD This word, or the adjective "RECOMMENDED", mean that there 15:26:45 may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances to ignore a 15:26:45 particular item, but the full implications must be understood and 15:26:45 carefully weighed before choosing a different course." 15:27:24 DV: I think if you don't do "onRequest", you can't do "onLoad" instead. 15:29:04 Norm: I think I'd say something like, if you don't do onRequest (and you have a good reason for not doing so), you might just display "Text" without making it a link. I don't think there's any justification that would allow you to ignore the onRequest and treat it as onLoad. 15:29:22 ...Or at the very least, you better be able to say why. 15:30:39 Richard: I'm not sure I agree, you might have some really good reasons for the proposed behavior (a device with no input capability, for example) 15:30:50 ...Though I'm not sure that's sensible behavior... 15:32:48 Henry: I don't believe what you wrote, Norm. 15:33:06 Henry: Displaying text without some way of indicating that there's a link doesn't seem reasonable to me. 15:33:36 zakim, drop me 15:33:36 Jose is being disconnected 15:33:38 -Jose 15:33:55 ...Saying that is a bit of a distraction. I offer instead: not distinguishing in whatever display you make of XLink between onRequst and any other value of actuate in situations where there is no funcionality to select them might be ok. 15:34:06 ...nevermind. 15:34:31 Topic: XML Errata 15:35:06 Henry: With respect to the PERs, we opened a comment period got on the order of a dozen reviews, all positive. 15:35:20 ...One pointed out a few things we'd noticed ourselves and agreed to fix. 15:35:42 ...PLH sent mail to Steve asking for permission to publish without a call. 15:35:45 ...We're waiting to hear from Steve; PLH will chase. 15:36:16 ...Our original date was yesterday, which obviously didn't happen. 15:36:24 ...We need four complete drafts in place (from Richard and Francois) and a press release which the Team is working on. 15:36:39 Henry: Richard and Francois, can you get drafts dated 8 August in place? 15:36:44 Richard: Not likely. 15:37:02 ...I won't be able to do anything until about 5 August so 8 August isn't a good choice. 15:37:43 Henry: Ok. We'll have to ask for a new date. 15:38:12 Richard: Incidentally, I did notice Konrad's message and I'll add his fixes to the list 15:39:23 Francois: I've just started preparing the documents, but I'm not ready yet. After 8 August should be doable. 15:39:45 Francois: Paul's actions included DoC and I don't know if I'm supposed to do that, and if yes, it's not clear what comments should go in there. 15:39:56 Henry: That must be stale actions from before the PER decisions. 15:40:46 Topic: Namespaces in XML 15:40:47 See above. 15:40:55 Topic: XInclude 15:41:05 DV: I haven't had a chance to finish my action yet. 15:42:09 Topic: Milestones for XLink 1.1 and C14N 1.1 15:42:48 Henry: In the charter being drafted, there are two deliverables: 15:42:56 ...Recommendations for XLink 1.1 and C14N 1.1 15:43:33 ...and at the moment the milestones show July 2006 for XLink 1.1 and October 2006 for C14N. 15:43:59 ...For XLink 1.1 there are PR and REC dates for July and September. 15:44:03 ...What do we propose? 15:44:23 Norm: I propose September and December 15:45:07 Henry: For C14N, the dates are June and months thereafter 15:45:25 ...I would think that we could go to September for FPWD 15:45:43 ...Are we going to need to differentiate between FPWD and LC draft? 15:47:09 Glenn: If it was purely something from the Core WG, I'd probably hesitate. But given that we have invited expertise, I'm much more comfortable so I think we could go out with a LC first. 15:47:27 Glenn: I think we could have that by September. 15:48:39 Henry: I propose: September '06 for FPWD which is LC, October '06 for CR, ... 15:49:07 Some discussion of implementations 15:49:26 Henry: Ok, we need a two month CR then and we should be working on getting implementations lined up sooner rather than later. 15:49:38 Glenn: We need two impl, right? 15:49:41 Henry: Yes. 15:49:57 Henry: Ok, September for LC and February for CR 15:50:48 September for LC, October for CR, December for PR, and February '07 for REC 15:51:33 Topic: Next Meeting 15:51:35 can I give my regrets for August the 9th 15:51:41 August 2 CANCELLED. Next meeting is August 9 15:51:44 and the week after 15:52:03 Adjourned. 15:52:03 -Leonid 15:52:05 -fyergeau 15:52:06 -Ht 15:52:08 -Glenn 15:52:09 -Norm 15:52:10 -DV 15:52:11 -richard 15:52:12 -klanz2 15:52:14 XML_Core()11:00AM has ended 15:52:16 rrsagent, make logs world-visible 15:52:16 Attendees were Ht, [Sun], Norm, Leonid, klanz2, [IPcaller], fyergeau, richard, Glenn, DV, Jose 15:52:22 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:52:22 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/26-xmlcore-minutes.html Norm 15:56:32 DV has left #xmlcore 16:01:03 ht has left #xmlcore 17:50:10 Zakim has left #xmlcore