IRC log of rif on 2006-07-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:40:49 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rif
14:40:49 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/07/25-rif-irc
14:40:54 [ChrisWelty]
zakim, this will be rif
14:40:54 [Zakim]
ok, ChrisWelty; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 20 minutes
14:41:01 [ChrisWelty]
rrsagent, make logs public
14:41:08 [ChrisWelty]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:41:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/25-rif-minutes.html ChrisWelty
14:50:03 [MarkusK]
MarkusK has joined #rif
14:50:16 [Harold]
Harold has joined #rif
14:51:24 [Donald_Chapin]
Donald_Chapin has joined #rif
14:54:44 [PhilippeB]
PhilippeB has joined #rif
14:55:47 [Hassan]
Hassan has joined #rif
14:56:28 [csma]
csma has joined #rif
14:56:56 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
14:57:00 [csma]
Don, can you scribe today?
14:57:03 [Zakim]
+Hassan_Ait-Kaci
14:57:53 [Zakim]
+??P21
14:57:54 [FrankMcCabe]
FrankMcCabe has joined #rif
14:58:05 [FrankMcCabe]
zakim, what is the code
14:58:05 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'what is the code', FrankMcCabe
14:58:07 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:58:08 [csma]
zakim, ??P21 is me
14:58:08 [Zakim]
+csma; got it
14:58:09 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
14:58:10 [FrankMcCabe]
zakim, what is the code?
14:58:11 [Zakim]
the conference code is 74394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), FrankMcCabe
14:58:18 [ChrisWelty]
zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me
14:58:18 [Zakim]
+ChrisWelty; got it
14:58:49 [mdean]
mdean has joined #rif
14:59:29 [ChrisWelty]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:59:29 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Hassan_Ait-Kaci, csma, MarkusK (muted), ChrisWelty
14:59:39 [Zakim]
+ +1.650.857.aaaa
14:59:53 [FrankMcCabe]
zakim, aaaa is me
14:59:53 [Zakim]
+FrankMcCabe; got it
15:00:04 [FrankMcCabe]
zakim, mute me
15:00:04 [Zakim]
FrankMcCabe should now be muted
15:00:12 [pfps]
pfps has joined #rif
15:00:27 [Zakim]
+??P15
15:00:34 [pfps]
zakim, ??p15 ispfps
15:00:34 [Zakim]
I don't understand '??p15 ispfps', pfps
15:00:35 [josb]
josb has joined #rif
15:00:41 [Zakim]
+Mike_Dean
15:00:43 [Zakim]
+David_Hirtle
15:00:54 [Zakim]
+??P33
15:00:56 [Zakim]
+Philippe_Bonnard (was ??P33)
15:01:00 [PhilippeB]
Zakim, mute me
15:01:00 [Zakim]
Philippe_Bonnard should now be muted
15:01:30 [csma]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:30 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), csma, MarkusK (muted), ChrisWelty, FrankMcCabe (muted), ??P15, Mike_Dean, David_Hirtle, Philippe_Bonnard (muted)
15:01:33 [LeoraMorgenstern]
LeoraMorgenstern has joined #rif
15:01:44 [csma]
zakim, ??P15 is pfps
15:01:44 [Zakim]
+pfps; got it
15:01:57 [Darko]
Darko has joined #rif
15:02:06 [JosDeRoo]
JosDeRoo has joined #rif
15:02:06 [Zakim]
+Sandro
15:02:17 [DaveReynolds]
DaveReynolds has joined #rif
15:02:47 [Zakim]
+??P5
15:02:49 [Zakim]
+Dave_Reynolds (was ??P5)
15:03:02 [StellaMitchell]
StellaMitchell has joined #rif
15:03:02 [GiorgosStoilos]
GiorgosStoilos has joined #rif
15:03:07 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:03:09 [Zakim]
+Leora_Morgenstern
15:03:14 [Zakim]
+Donald_Chapin (was [IPcaller])
15:03:20 [johnhall]
johnhall has joined #rif
15:03:24 [LeoraMorgenstern]
zakim, please mute me
15:03:24 [Zakim]
Leora_Morgenstern should now be muted
15:03:31 [Donald_Chapin]
zakim, mute me
15:03:32 [Zakim]
Donald_Chapin should now be muted
15:03:41 [Donald_Chapin]
zakim unmute me
15:03:47 [ChrisWelty]
ack don
15:03:58 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has joined #rif
15:04:04 [JeffP]
JeffP has joined #rif
15:04:05 [ChrisWelty]
scribenick: donald_chapin
15:04:30 [ChrisWelty]
zakim, who is talking?
15:04:32 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
15:04:41 [Zakim]
ChrisWelty, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Donald_Chapin (55%), Mike_Dean (4%), ??P18 (24%), csma (53%)
15:04:45 [Zakim]
+Axel_Polleres
15:04:45 [patranja]
patranja has joined #rif
15:04:49 [Donald_Chapin]
zakim, mute me
15:04:50 [Zakim]
Donald_Chapin should now be muted
15:04:51 [StellaMitchell]
zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me
15:04:51 [Zakim]
+StellaMitchell; got it
15:04:56 [ChrisWelty]
thanks
15:05:25 [Zakim]
+Jos_De_Roo
15:05:30 [Zakim]
+ +43.512.507.9aabb - is perhaps Darko_Anicic?
15:05:32 [Zakim]
+Yannis
15:05:33 [Hassan]
+1
15:05:33 [FrankMcCabe]
i should be there
15:05:36 [Darko]
Zakim, aabb is me
15:05:36 [Zakim]
sorry, Darko, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
15:05:38 [Donald_Chapin]
+1
15:05:43 [pfps]
+1
15:05:44 [AxelPolleres]
-1
15:05:48 [MarkusK]
-1
15:05:49 [Zakim]
+PaulaP
15:05:50 [DaveReynolds]
-1
15:05:54 [LeoraMorgenstern]
+1 for being here next week?
15:05:56 [LeoraMorgenstern]
or being away?
15:05:57 [Darko]
Zakim, 9aabb is me
15:05:57 [Zakim]
sorry, Darko, I do not recognize a party named '9aabb'
15:05:58 [PhilippeB]
+1
15:06:02 [LeoraMorgenstern]
+1
15:06:08 [mdean]
+1
15:06:16 [ChrisWelty]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:06:16 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), csma, MarkusK (muted), ChrisWelty, FrankMcCabe (muted), pfps, Mike_Dean, David_Hirtle, Philippe_Bonnard (muted), Sandro, Dave_Reynolds,
15:06:19 [Zakim]
... Donald_Chapin (muted), Leora_Morgenstern (muted), StellaMitchell (muted), Axel_Polleres (muted), Jos_De_Roo (muted), Darko_Anicic?, Yannis, PaulaP (muted)
15:06:22 [Zakim]
+ +1.441.224.aacc
15:06:23 [DavidHirtle]
+1
15:06:44 [ChrisWelty]
zakim, aacc is darko
15:06:44 [Zakim]
+darko; got it
15:06:47 [Zakim]
+Jos_de_Bruijn
15:06:54 [ChrisWelty]
oops
15:07:00 [ChrisWelty]
zakim, darko is jeffp
15:07:00 [Zakim]
+jeffp; got it
15:07:08 [Donald_Chapin]
ACTION: Will have a meeting next and Sandro will chair
15:07:08 [trackbot]
Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
15:07:27 [PaulaP]
+1
15:07:45 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:07:53 [Donald_Chapin]
No objections from minutes - accpet July 11 minutes
15:07:54 [ChrisWelty]
RESOVLED: Accept minutes of July 11 telecon
15:08:03 [johnhall]
zakim, ipcaller is me
15:08:03 [Zakim]
+johnhall; got it
15:08:04 [ChrisWelty]
RESOLVED: Accept minutes of July 11 telecon
15:08:19 [Zakim]
-josb
15:08:20 [ChrisWelty]
zakim, who is talking?
15:08:29 [Darko]
Zakim, 9aabb is really me
15:08:29 [Zakim]
sorry, Darko, I do not recognize a party named '9aabb'
15:08:31 [Zakim]
ChrisWelty, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: csma (63%)
15:08:31 [johnhall]
zakim, mute me
15:08:33 [Zakim]
johnhall should now be muted
15:08:34 [Darko]
+Darko
15:08:48 [johnhall]
not yet
15:08:57 [johnhall]
yes
15:09:21 [igor]
igor has joined #rif
15:09:27 [Donald_Chapin]
AACTION John will add rejects to July 18 minutes and resubmit
15:09:38 [ChrisWelty]
^rejects^regrets^
15:10:08 [Zakim]
+??P0
15:10:10 [ChrisWelty]
ACTION John will add regrets to July 18 minutes and resubmit
15:10:19 [igor]
zakim, ??P0 is me
15:10:19 [Zakim]
+igor; got it
15:10:26 [igor]
zakim, mute me
15:10:26 [Zakim]
igor should now be muted
15:10:28 [JeffP]
action: John will add regrets to July 18 minutes and resubmit
15:10:28 [trackbot]
Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
15:10:50 [Zakim]
+ +49.715.290.aadd
15:11:04 [PaulaP]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/
15:11:19 [ChrisWelty]
zakim, who is talking?
15:11:25 [PaulaP]
it is a new WG
15:11:32 [Zakim]
ChrisWelty, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: csma (29%), Darko_Anicic? (4%)
15:11:46 [Darko]
Zakim, mute me
15:11:46 [Zakim]
Darko_Anicic? should now be muted
15:12:13 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:12:19 [Zakim]
-FrankMcCabe
15:12:22 [Donald_Chapin]
Everyone should look at the charter of GRDDLL-WG to see if they have an interest in it.
15:12:23 [GiorgosStoilos]
zakim, where is +Yannis
15:12:23 [Zakim]
sorry, GiorgosStoilos, I do not recognize a party named 'where'
15:12:23 [FrankMcCabe]
zakim, ipcaller is me
15:12:24 [Donald_Chapin]
no
15:12:24 [Zakim]
+FrankMcCabe; got it
15:12:35 [Harold]
zakim, +49.715.290.aadd is me
15:12:35 [Zakim]
+Harold; got it
15:12:42 [csma]
q?
15:12:55 [GiorgosStoilos]
where is +Yannis?
15:13:05 [GiorgosStoilos]
zakim, where is +Yannis?
15:13:05 [Zakim]
sorry, GiorgosStoilos, I do not understand your question
15:14:04 [Donald_Chapin]
Use Cases & Requirements
15:14:49 [GiorgosStoilos]
zakim, Yannis is probably me
15:14:49 [Zakim]
+GiorgosStoilos?; got it
15:15:46 [PaulaP]
this was postponed
15:15:59 [PaulaP]
ok with me
15:16:03 [PaulaP]
:)
15:16:13 [Donald_Chapin]
Close Action 39
15:17:52 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:18:05 [Donald_Chapin]
Action 59 closed, but discussion is going on about standardizing the Semantic Web Layer Cake diagram - no decision
15:18:15 [Donald_Chapin]
continued
15:19:05 [Harold]
zakim, mute me
15:19:05 [Zakim]
Harold should now be muted
15:19:15 [Zakim]
+Gary_Hallmark
15:19:21 [Donald_Chapin]
Topic RIFRAF
15:19:39 [Donald_Chapin]
Action 61 done
15:19:53 [Donald_Chapin]
Action 73 done
15:20:01 [AxelPolleres]
q+
15:20:05 [Donald_Chapin]
Discusiion on Questionaire:
15:20:07 [csma]
ack axel
15:20:11 [GaryHallmark]
GaryHallmark has joined #rif
15:21:32 [Donald_Chapin]
Axel - Can Francois reformulation the questions 3.1 & 3.2 about decidability - agree that there is a problem
15:21:48 [Zakim]
-Sandro
15:21:54 [csma]
q?
15:22:32 [GiorgosStoilos]
zakim, Yannis is me
15:22:32 [Zakim]
sorry, GiorgosStoilos, I do not recognize a party named 'Yannis'
15:22:39 [csma]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Jul/0040.html
15:22:50 [PaulaP]
+1 for the third suggestion of Francois
15:22:56 [Donald_Chapin]
Chris w - 3.1 not confusing, 3.2 doesn't see problem, the new question is a good one
15:22:59 [MichaelKifer]
MichaelKifer has joined #rif
15:23:44 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:23:54 [Donald_Chapin]
Christian - propse add a discriminator on which kind of data format that the language is able to consume
15:24:02 [PaulaP]
no, it is not
15:24:03 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, IPcaller is me
15:24:03 [Zakim]
+MichaelKifer; got it
15:24:09 [ChrisWelty]
DaveR's message: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Jul/0041.html
15:24:12 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
15:24:12 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should now be muted
15:24:19 [csma]
q?
15:25:19 [ChrisWelty]
RIFRAF questionaire: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/38457/RAFQuestionnaire/
15:25:26 [Donald_Chapin]
Questionaire is strictly incremental. If you need a new discriminator, simply ask for it to be added. Once it is there new languages can use it.
15:25:49 [MarkusK]
+1 for Francois' remark on 3.1. Decidability of a rule language in the sense of Computer Science really is not what we mean here. Decidability should refer to some inference problem or similar reasoning/computation task.
15:26:16 [Zakim]
+Sandro
15:26:34 [AxelPolleres]
ok
15:27:21 [Donald_Chapin]
Data format consumed can be multiple
15:27:24 [AxelPolleres]
ok!
15:27:27 [FrankMcCabe]
+q
15:27:32 [FrankMcCabe]
q+
15:27:46 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Axel to add to questionnaire question whether the language has means to
15:27:46 [trackbot]
Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
15:27:46 [AxelPolleres]
access data in Web formats such as HTML, XML, RDF, OWL data.
15:28:02 [Donald_Chapin]
ACTION Alex Add the data format discriminator
15:28:06 [JosDeRoo]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/38457/RAFQuestionnaire/
15:28:16 [Harold]
Initially, we referred to Decidability of the QUERY problem of a rule language.
15:28:26 [MarkusK]
q+
15:28:53 [AxelPolleres]
it should bve about decidability of "entailment" of facts, probably.
15:29:04 [csma]
ack markus
15:29:10 [MarkusK]
can you hear me?
15:29:31 [ChrisWelty]
zakim, unmute markusk
15:29:31 [Zakim]
MarkusK was not muted, ChrisWelty
15:29:48 [MarkusK]
sorry, cant get it workin
15:30:00 [MarkusK]
I will write on IRC
15:30:00 [Harold]
E.g., Datalog has a decidable QUERY problem. Hornlog doesn't.
15:30:09 [MarkusK]
3.1 just is a formal issue
15:30:11 [ChrisWelty]
zakim, who is talking?
15:30:13 [MarkusK]
that should be easy to fix
15:30:24 [Zakim]
ChrisWelty, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: csma (30%)
15:30:31 [ChrisWelty]
zakim, mute markusk
15:30:31 [Zakim]
MarkusK should now be muted
15:30:50 [MarkusK]
just say what "decidability" refers to
15:31:15 [MarkusK]
"decidability of a language" means deciding whether something belongs to the language.
15:31:25 [AxelPolleres]
I suggest that francois and markus both propose reformulations for 3.1 and 3.2
15:31:28 [MarkusK]
I will send an email regarding 3.1
15:31:38 [MarkusK]
I have nothing to say about 3.2 so far ...
15:31:56 [ChrisWelty]
q?
15:32:00 [ChrisWelty]
ack frank
15:32:01 [csma]
ack frank
15:32:07 [Donald_Chapin]
ACTION MarkusK Write email with solution to 3.1 & 3.2 on the questionaire
15:32:33 [JeffP]
action: MarkusK Write email with solution to 3.1 & 3.2 on the questionaire
15:32:33 [trackbot]
Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
15:32:50 [AxelPolleres]
Can you formulate a question plus options for answers, Frank?
15:32:51 [Donald_Chapin]
FrankeMcCable Need to add the kinds of 'types' supported as a discriminator
15:33:30 [AxelPolleres]
Let's post all these suggestions on the mailinglist under the [RIFRAF] header.
15:33:57 [Donald_Chapin]
ACTION FrankMcCable will proposed a list of type capbailities as a discriminator
15:35:12 [ChrisWelty]
q?
15:36:27 [Donald_Chapin]
We won't add Dave Reymolds email seond point as a discriminator. If some language needs it they will add it
15:37:43 [Donald_Chapin]
Dave Reynolds - Questionarie would need some work before it is used outside the Working Group
15:38:26 [Harold]
In http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006May/0235.html I responded to Axel's 'Syn' comment about types -- I agree, could be spliced in thus: Typed vs. Untyped Variables (Types can reuse class definitions in RDFS and OWL).
15:38:52 [Donald_Chapin]
Chris W - The RIFRAF should be the place where the explanation of discriminator belongs. People outside the RIF WG should be able to understand the RIFPAF Wiki page.
15:39:28 [AxelPolleres]
I set the questionnaire currently only visible to RIF WG members!
15:39:31 [Donald_Chapin]
Who should have access to the RIFRAF Wiki page?
15:39:43 [AxelPolleres]
... at the moment.
15:40:51 [Donald_Chapin]
Only RIF WG memebrs can fill out the questionaire
15:41:56 [Donald_Chapin]
The RIFRAF Wiki page should be public because of our charter
15:42:30 [ChrisWelty]
^wiki page^questionnaire
15:42:53 [Donald_Chapin]
ACTION Fix questionarie so that it can be duplicated for different languages
15:43:15 [AxelPolleres]
:-)
15:43:38 [Donald_Chapin]
Above action is on Alex
15:44:17 [AxelPolleres]
s/on Alex/on Axel (and Sandro)/
15:44:20 [Donald_Chapin]
Christian - Add a box at the end where people can suggest additional discriminators together with their values
15:44:26 [DaveReynolds]
+1
15:44:30 [PaulaP]
+1
15:44:58 [Donald_Chapin]
ACTIOIN Axel to add pob to suggest more discriminators
15:45:25 [Donald_Chapin]
ACTION Axel to ass box to suggest more discriminators
15:45:35 [AxelPolleres]
... and drop 1.1.3
15:45:48 [AxelPolleres]
s/ass/add
15:46:52 [DaveReynolds]
Depends how you are going to do the analysis of the form results
15:47:28 [Donald_Chapin]
TOPIC New Discriminators by Paula
15:47:39 [JosDeRoo]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Jul/0039.html
15:49:06 [ChrisWelty]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Jul/0027.html
15:49:12 [Donald_Chapin]
TOPIC Items Moved to RIFRAF from Requirements
15:51:43 [csma]
q?
15:53:39 [Donald_Chapin]
Chris W - The 'owners' of the items moved from Requirements ot RIFRAF need to take responsibility for creating any necessary discrinimator for RIFRAF
15:54:12 [Donald_Chapin]
Christian - move this topic to next week
15:54:21 [ChrisWelty]
paula's message from this morning: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Jul/0039.html
15:54:43 [Donald_Chapin]
'Owners' propose new discriminators on email
15:55:07 [PaulaP]
q+
15:55:14 [csma]
ack paula
15:55:16 [Donald_Chapin]
Christian - Comment on email if your disagree with additions
15:55:23 [GaryHallmark]
q+
15:55:53 [csma]
ack gary
15:55:54 [ChrisWelty]
ack paula
15:56:41 [AxelPolleres]
+1 to gary, shall we split the qeustionnaire then?
15:56:52 [PaulaP]
+1 to gary's comment
15:56:57 [AxelPolleres]
q+
15:59:14 [sandro]
sandro has joined #rif
15:59:53 [AxelPolleres]
q-
16:01:16 [Donald_Chapin]
Chriatian - Need to say not applicable for any question or a comment space for any lack of clarity
16:01:56 [Donald_Chapin]
Gary - Need a maaping of 'polog-like' languages to production rules
16:02:59 [Donald_Chapin]
See the ILOG answer for questions on the mapping to Production Rules
16:03:04 [AxelPolleres]
q+
16:03:29 [ChrisWelty]
q?
16:05:31 [Donald_Chapin]
Axel - Comments are switched on and can be used to say 'not applicable'
16:06:05 [Donald_Chapin]
ChrisW - Can't uncheck / unanswer a question
16:06:24 [Donald_Chapin]
Alex - Could use checkboxes throughout as they can be 'unchecked'
16:07:08 [Darko]
it is possible not to answer a question and then you get a notification: (1 response didn't contain an answer to this question)
16:09:13 [AxelPolleres]
what about a checkbox: "not applicable (pllease specify)"
16:09:43 [Donald_Chapin]
ACTION Alex add 'no answer' to each question
16:10:02 [AxelPolleres]
s/Alex/Axel/
16:10:13 [Donald_Chapin]
TOPIC Technical Design
16:10:19 [Harold]
zakim, unmute me
16:10:19 [Zakim]
Harold should no longer be muted
16:10:53 [Donald_Chapin]
TOPIC Semantics for Proposed RIF Condition Language
16:11:04 [ChrisWelty]
q?
16:11:12 [ChrisWelty]
ack axel
16:11:23 [ChrisWelty]
zakim, mute axel_polleres
16:11:23 [Zakim]
Axel_Polleres should now be muted
16:12:22 [Donald_Chapin]
Harold - Email today with draft of these semantics which he describes. Michael is working on the Wiki to make this really formal
16:12:29 [ChrisWelty]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/A.1_Basis%3A_Positive_Conditions
16:13:28 [Donald_Chapin]
Christian - The semantics page doesn't really state explicitly what the semnatics is
16:13:29 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
16:13:29 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
16:13:34 [MichaelKifer]
q+
16:14:35 [csma]
q?
16:14:59 [Donald_Chapin]
Harold - Current wiki semantics is still very general. Now this is being more concrete on the Wiki - focusing on conjunctions only
16:15:54 [Donald_Chapin]
Michael - Defining semantics by stating what the models are and what is the abstraction
16:17:10 [Donald_Chapin]
Christian - Current semantics does not propose one semantic.
16:17:37 [Donald_Chapin]
Michael - Already agreed that there would be different dialects
16:19:24 [pfps]
As a point of interest, I would like to have a pointer to the decision that the RIF will have different dialects.
16:19:28 [FrankMcCabe]
there is no one semantics!
16:19:36 [Donald_Chapin]
Christian - Is it not possible to have one semantics for the conditions and that shared by all the dialects?
16:19:46 [Harold]
Positive condition semantics is at http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/A.1_Basis%3A_Positive_Conditions
16:19:57 [sandro]
sadly, pfps, I don't think the minutes of the most recent F2F ever got done and approved, although they got very close. :-(
16:20:14 [csma]
ack michael
16:20:23 [Harold]
... Given a condition formula phi(X1,...,Xn) with free variables X1, ..., Xn and an interpretation M, define M(phi(X1,...,Xn)) as the set of all bindings (a1/X1,...,an/Xn) such that M |= phi(a1,...,an), where a1,...,an are elements in the domain of M. ...
16:20:32 [pfps]
Hmm. That is not a very happy situation. Were they not supposed to be done quite some time ago.
16:20:45 [Donald_Chapin]
Michael - Different semantics simply exist for the differen dialects, so a single semantic for the condition language is not possible
16:20:56 [FrankMcCabe]
q+
16:21:11 [csma]
ack frank
16:21:26 [Harold]
zakim, mute me
16:21:26 [Zakim]
Harold should now be muted
16:22:34 [pfps]
Given that there does not appear to be a recorded decision that there are going to be different RIF dialects, then it would probably be better not to treat it has having being decided.
16:22:51 [Donald_Chapin]
FrankMcCable - Thinks it is unrealistic that, except for possiblly a very small core, to have a single semantics. It could even be counterproductive to doso.
16:23:53 [ChrisWelty]
The decision was that there would not be "too many" dialects
16:24:08 [ChrisWelty]
that does not preclude that there will be one
16:25:06 [AxelPolleres]
para-consistent logicsare nothing new... can you send a pointer on this?
16:25:31 [Harold]
In the Roadmap discussion, we had basically three dialects: FOL, LP (Naf), and Production Rules.
16:25:40 [MarkusK]
+1 to send a pointer; there are so many approaches towards para-consistency ...
16:25:41 [AxelPolleres]
there are many different approaches to the issue of para-consistency, right?
16:27:13 [Zakim]
-Axel_Polleres
16:27:14 [FrankMcCabe]
Carl hewitt's paper: http://www.pcs.usp.br/~coin-aamas06/10_commitment-43_16pages.pdf
16:27:24 [Harold]
Paraconsistency is a kind of scope-localized para-consistency, so nicely fits to our scopes
16:27:29 [Harold]
q+
16:27:31 [FrankMcCabe]
I am not completely sure that this is the correct pointer
16:27:38 [Harold]
zakim, unmute me
16:27:38 [Zakim]
Harold should no longer be muted
16:27:44 [Donald_Chapin]
ACTION Peter - Proposed a single dialect semanitcs - a kind of first order logic semantics by Aug 29 - Condition Language only
16:28:53 [Harold]
zakim, mute me
16:28:53 [Zakim]
Harold should now be muted
16:29:24 [Donald_Chapin]
ACTION Harold make explicit the assumptions behind the semantics he and Michael are documenting
16:29:35 [PaulaP]
q+
16:29:44 [Harold]
I meant above: Paraconsistency is a kind of scope-localized consistency, so nicely fits to our scopes.
16:29:50 [csma]
ack harold
16:29:54 [Donald_Chapin]
ACTION - Christian will propose a single semantics for the Condition Language
16:30:13 [pfps]
paraconsistency does not necessarily have anything to do with locality
16:30:18 [Zakim]
-Philippe_Bonnard
16:30:51 [PaulaP]
bye
16:30:51 [JeffP]
+1
16:30:54 [FrankMcCabe]
right. Its my understanding that it refers to the shortest proof of inconsistency. Any shorter proofs are OK
16:30:59 [Zakim]
-Harold
16:31:00 [Zakim]
-StellaMitchell
16:31:01 [Darko]
-Darko
16:31:01 [Zakim]
-PaulaP
16:31:03 [Zakim]
-Gary_Hallmark
16:31:04 [Zakim]
-Sandro
16:31:05 [Zakim]
-MarkusK
16:31:06 [Donald_Chapin]
ChrisW - Everyone should record regreats on Wiki if they are not attending Aug 15th meting
16:31:07 [ChrisWelty]
zakim, bye
16:31:07 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #rif
16:31:07 [Zakim]
-josb
16:31:08 [Zakim]
-Jos_De_Roo
16:31:10 [Zakim]
-igor
16:31:11 [Zakim]
-GiorgosStoilos?
16:31:13 [Zakim]
-jeffp
16:31:13 [Donald_Chapin]
zakim, unmute me
16:31:14 [Zakim]
-Leora_Morgenstern
16:31:16 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Hassan_Ait-Kaci, csma, MarkusK, ChrisWelty, +1.650.857.aaaa, FrankMcCabe, Mike_Dean, David_Hirtle, Philippe_Bonnard, pfps, Sandro,
16:31:20 [Zakim]
... Dave_Reynolds, Leora_Morgenstern, Donald_Chapin, Axel_Polleres, StellaMitchell, Jos_De_Roo, +43.512.507.9aabb, PaulaP, +1.441.224.aacc, jeffp, josb, johnhall, igor, Harold,
16:31:21 [ChrisWelty]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:31:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/25-rif-minutes.html ChrisWelty
16:31:22 [Zakim]
... GiorgosStoilos?, Gary_Hallmark, MichaelKifer
16:31:35 [ChrisWelty]
sandro?
16:31:39 [Hassan]
#quit
16:31:39 [Donald_Chapin]
zakim, unmute me
16:31:49 [igor]
bye
16:32:02 [Donald_Chapin]
can you hear me
16:32:09 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #rif
16:32:17 [ChrisWelty]
zakim, unmute donald_chapin
16:32:17 [Zakim]
sorry, ChrisWelty, I don't know what conference this is
16:32:23 [ChrisWelty]
zakim, this is rif
16:32:23 [Zakim]
ok, ChrisWelty; that matches SW_RIF()11:00AM
16:32:26 [ChrisWelty]
zakim, unmute donald_chapin
16:32:26 [Zakim]
Donald_Chapin should no longer be muted
16:34:07 [Zakim]
-Donald_Chapin
16:34:12 [Zakim]
-ChrisWelty
16:34:15 [Zakim]
-csma
16:47:12 [Zakim]
-Mike_Dean
16:47:13 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
16:47:14 [Zakim]
Attendees were Hassan_Ait-Kaci, csma, MarkusK, ChrisWelty, +1.650.857.aaaa, FrankMcCabe, Mike_Dean, David_Hirtle, Philippe_Bonnard, pfps, Sandro, Dave_Reynolds, Leora_Morgenstern,
16:47:19 [Zakim]
... Donald_Chapin, Axel_Polleres, StellaMitchell, Jos_De_Roo, +43.512.507.9aabb, PaulaP, +1.441.224.aacc, jeffp, josb, johnhall, igor, Harold, GiorgosStoilos?, Gary_Hallmark,
16:47:22 [Zakim]
... MichaelKifer
18:02:15 [csma]
csma has left #rif
18:35:52 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #rif