13:52:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18nits
13:52:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/07/24-i18nits-irc
13:53:19 <fsasaki> Hi Yves, sorry, I will be late today, our son just had a small accident, nothing serious, but it will take some time
13:53:33 <YvesS> Hi felix.
13:53:42 <YvesS> Sure: take your time.
13:56:04 <YvesS> zakim, this will be I18N_ITS
13:56:04 <Zakim> ok, YvesS; I see I18N_ITS()10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
14:01:03 <Zakim> I18N_ITS()10:00AM has now started
14:01:03 <Zakim> +Felix
14:01:21 <chriLi> chriLi has joined #i18nits
14:01:30 <Zakim> I18N_ITS()10:00AM has ended
14:01:34 <Zakim> Attendees were Felix
14:01:56 <Zakim> I18N_ITS()10:00AM has now started
14:02:02 <Zakim> +Yves_Savourel
14:02:19 <YvesS> zakim, this is I18N_ITS
14:02:19 <Zakim> YvesS, this was already I18N_ITS()10:00AM
14:02:20 <Zakim> ok, YvesS; that matches I18N_ITS()10:00AM
14:02:57 <YvesS> :(
14:03:39 <YvesS> zakim, who is there?
14:03:39 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, YvesS.
14:03:44 <YvesS> zakim, who is here?
14:03:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see Yves_Savourel
14:03:46 <Zakim> On IRC I see chriLi, RRSAgent, YvesS, Zakim, fsasaki
14:03:54 <Zakim> +Felix
14:03:58 <YvesS> zakim, who is here?
14:04:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see Yves_Savourel, Felix (muted)
14:04:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see chriLi, RRSAgent, YvesS, Zakim, fsasaki
14:04:34 <chriLi> I cannot connect via phone
14:05:12 <YvesS> the code is 48794 
14:05:24 <r12a> r12a has joined #i18nits
14:05:35 <r12a> zakim, dial richard
14:05:41 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
14:05:43 <Zakim> +Richard
14:05:45 <Zakim> +??P9
14:07:31 <Zakim> -Richard
14:08:08 <fsasaki> topic: current comments
14:08:11 <fsasaki> list at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0101.html
14:08:59 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3126
14:09:24 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3126#c1
14:09:38 <fsasaki> proposal for a solution at http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3126#c1
14:09:58 <fsasaki> s/current comments/comment on "Attaching information to the object associated"/
14:10:56 <fsasaki> Yves describes the proposal from Felix
14:11:07 <fsasaki> Yves: how do you make the distinction at b)?
14:11:58 <fsasaki> Felix: you would need additional information
14:12:06 <fsasaki> .. e.g. an attribute as a "trigger"
14:12:11 <YvesS> <img its:translate="yes" its:translateObject="yes" src="myimg.png" alt="My image"/>
14:13:05 <fsasaki> Felix: we still would not be able to identify the src attribute
14:13:21 <fsasaki> Yves: I can see the trigger at the global level
14:13:30 <fsasaki> .. but locally, you may have to define things for both cases
14:13:40 <fsasaki> .. i.e. the content and the object
14:14:12 <fsasaki> Christian: I see the problem for the local case
14:14:31 <fsasaki> Yves: would the trigger answer your concern, that we don't have anything for an object?
14:14:48 <fsasaki> Christian repeats the requirement
14:16:11 <fsasaki> Felix: should we make an substantive change now?
14:16:26 <fsasaki> Christian: we should not address this now, if it takes an substantive change
14:17:03 <fsasaki> Yves: we should kit the proposal that Felix made and discuss for the next version of ITS
14:17:16 <fsasaki> Christian: I already came up with many cases
14:17:29 <fsasaki> Yves: so let's pospone that for this version of ITS
14:18:57 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3290
14:19:06 <YvesS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0068.html
14:19:46 <fsasaki> Yves: why my name in it?
14:19:55 <fsasaki> Christian: I got the text from one article of you??
14:20:02 <fsasaki> Yves: it's o.k. without citing me
14:20:21 <fsasaki> Yves: wording looks good to me
14:20:23 <fsasaki> Felix: +1
14:20:33 <fsasaki> Yves: let's have this as the official answer
14:21:28 <fsasaki> action: Felix to go back to Karl with our resolution on http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3290
14:21:43 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3292
14:22:09 <fsasaki> Yves: we discussed that already a bit
14:22:37 <fsasaki> related bug at http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3331
14:23:09 <fsasaki> Felix: I wrote a personal reply to the HTML WG, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0061.html
14:24:35 <fsasaki> action: Felix to get back to the HTML WG to schedule call / discussion of XHTML Mod bug
14:26:44 <fsasaki> Felix: would you agree with my reply? Could I sent it as a WG reply?
14:27:00 <fsasaki> Christian: We have a misunderstanding with respect to "modularization"
14:27:09 <fsasaki> .. XHTML modularization is an established term
14:27:21 <fsasaki> .. the way we use "modularization" does not fit with our use
14:28:21 <fsasaki> Yves: the term "modularization" is not in the ITS draft anymore, only in the BP document
14:28:49 <fsasaki> Christian: for e.g. DITA and DocBook, what do we want to provide?
14:30:46 <fsasaki> Yves: we just have BP how to use ITS, we have nothing people *have* to use?
14:32:38 <fsasaki> Felix: is a key difference that ITS is very free in combining markup declarations
14:34:40 <fsasaki> .. if you look at the conformance section http://www.w3.org/TR/its/#conformance-product-schema : you have a lot of combinations of markup declarations, too many for normative modules
14:35:01 <fsasaki> Christian: somebody who uses ITS has to say what is applicable in her context
14:35:32 <fsasaki> .. as for XHTML, we have to see what is necessary in that given context
14:37:01 <fsasaki> .. so, an XHTML module will not need ruby and dir, because it understands it natively
14:37:24 <fsasaki> Christian: could we put this in the next charter?
14:37:37 <fsasaki> Yves: not sure, it bothers me that this should be normative
14:38:50 <fsasaki> Felix: I think the HTML WG wants us to use the XHTML Modularization framework for the whole ITS spec
14:40:05 <fsasaki> Yves: is the comment only about XHTML or ITS as a whole?
14:40:12 <fsasaki> See their proposal:
14:40:13 <fsasaki> > Modularisation allows you to add markup modules to a language so that
14:40:13 <fsasaki> > you build a language using building bricks rather than defining elements
14:40:13 <fsasaki> > and attributes separately. This helps consistency between related
14:40:13 <fsasaki> > families of markup languages. We think that defining an ITS module would
14:40:13 <fsasaki> > be a good way to help people get ITS into their markup languages.
14:40:15 <fsasaki> > Modularization is schema-language neutral. Once you have defined a
14:40:17 <fsasaki> > module, you can 'implement' it in any number of schema languages, such
14:40:19 <fsasaki> > as DTD, XML Schema or Relax. We're not sure what you mean by
14:40:21 <fsasaki> > 'proprietary' here.
14:41:17 <chriLi> I'll be back in a minute
14:42:24 <fsasaki> Felix: that sounds to me that they want to have XHTML modularization normatively
14:42:26 <r12a> zakim, dial richard
14:42:26 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
14:42:28 <Zakim> +Richard
14:43:45 <fsasaki> action: The whole WG to look at the XHTML modularization comment and Felix reply proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0061.html
14:43:58 <YvesS> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3492
14:44:32 <YvesS>  <Res>
14:44:32 <YvesS> - <prolog>
14:44:32 <YvesS> - <its:rules xmlns:its="http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its" its:version="1.0">
14:44:32 <YvesS>   <its:translateRule selector="//msg/notes" translate="no" /> 
14:44:32 <YvesS>   <its:locNoteRule locInfoType="description" selector="//msg/data" locNotePointer="../notes" /> 
14:44:33 <YvesS>   </its:rules>
14:44:35 <YvesS>   </prolog>
14:44:37 <YvesS> - <body>
14:44:39 <YvesS> - <msg id="FileNotFound">
14:44:41 <YvesS>   <notes>Indicates that the resource file {0} could not be loaded.</notes> 
14:44:43 <YvesS>   <data>Cannot find the file {0}.</data> 
14:44:45 <YvesS>   </msg>
14:44:47 <YvesS> - <msg id="DivByZero">
14:44:49 <YvesS>   <notes>A division by 0 was going to be computed.</notes> 
14:44:51 <YvesS>   <data>Invalid parameter.</data> 
14:44:53 <YvesS>   </msg>
14:44:55 <YvesS>   </body>
14:44:57 <YvesS>   </Res>
14:45:59 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3492
14:46:13 <fsasaki> Yves: the change is fine with me
14:47:20 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3494
14:47:49 <fsasaki> Yves: I agree with the comment
14:48:03 <fsasaki> .. how to make it clearer?
14:48:17 <fsasaki> .. maybe with the definitions?
14:48:31 <YvesS> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3494
14:50:11 <fsasaki> Richard: it does not say that you should point to an URI
14:51:05 <fsasaki> Christian: we have several attributes which could be called "xxxURI" instead of "xxxRef"
14:51:24 <fsasaki> .. e.g we would have "xxxUriPointer"
14:52:23 <fsasaki> Felix: is renaming necessary?
14:52:42 <fsasaki> Richard: having a sentence which says "the attribute must contain an URI" would be good
14:52:50 <fsasaki> .. that's what I thought
14:53:14 <r12a> correction: The location pointed to by termInfoRefPointer must contain a URI.
14:53:42 <fsasaki> Yves: being able to fix that with a sentence would be good
14:55:29 <fsasaki> .. having an extra paragraph talking about the generality of ref, and saying that these are URIs, might be good
14:57:22 <fsasaki> Felix: I would be worried about the must
14:57:30 <fsasaki> Richard: it is a lower case must
14:57:34 <fsasaki> Felix: oh, I see
14:58:38 <fsasaki> Richard: how about changing "termInfoRefPointer" to "termInfoPointerRef"?
14:59:37 <fsasaki> Discussion of the role of the attribute
15:02:28 <fsasaki> action: Felix to make a better explanation of the data type of the "termInfoRef" attribute
15:03:10 <fsasaki> action: Yves to check where we have to make changes for the the terminology "ref" to "URI"
15:03:30 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3495
15:04:05 <fsasaki> Yves: I made a proposal, you can see if it works better with you
15:04:24 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3496
15:04:31 <fsasaki> "standardized wording"
15:04:36 <fsasaki> Richard: very editorial
15:04:47 <fsasaki> .. but every data category says the same think in a different way
15:04:54 <fsasaki> Yves: true
15:05:19 <fsasaki> .. it is also more difficult where the paragraphs for global and local is
15:05:47 <fsasaki> Felix: good idea
15:06:01 <fsasaki> Christian: agree
15:06:19 <fsasaki> action: editors to make the change described at http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3496
15:06:35 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3497
15:06:52 <fsasaki> Yves: editorial
15:07:17 <fsasaki> Yves: agree
15:07:24 <fsasaki> action: editors to make the change for http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3496
15:07:59 <Zakim> -Felix
15:08:05 <Zakim> -Christian
15:09:22 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3498
15:09:26 <r12a> proposed action for felix: remove duplication
15:09:51 <Zakim> -Richard
15:09:53 <Zakim> -Yves_Savourel
15:09:54 <Zakim> I18N_ITS()10:00AM has ended
15:09:55 <Zakim> Attendees were Yves_Savourel, Felix, Richard, Christian
15:10:17 <YvesS> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:10:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/24-i18nits-minutes.html YvesS
15:10:35 <fsasaki> Present: Christian, Felix, Richard, Yves
15:10:40 <fsasaki> meeting: i18n ITS working group
15:10:43 <fsasaki> chair: Yves
15:10:47 <fsasaki> scribe: Felix
15:10:51 <fsasaki> scribeNick: fsasaki
15:11:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/24-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
15:11:08 <YvesS> bye Felix, Thanks.
15:14:56 <r12a> r12a has left #i18nits
15:31:07 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18nits