IRC log of i18nits on 2006-07-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to
13:44:16 [fsasaki]
meeting: i18n ITS working group (additional call for LC issues)
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chair: Yves
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scribe: Felix
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scribeNick: fsasaki
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13:51:33 [YvesS]
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13:53:13 [fsasaki]
Hi Yves
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Would it be o.k. with you to take as the agenda, and go through I18NCORE comment?
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(the list should be complete now) in any order, as you like
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13:56:57 [YvesS]
Hi Felix. Yes.
13:57:06 [fsasaki]
great, tx.
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13:57:45 [Zakim]
I18N_ITS(EDIT)10:00AM has now started
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13:58:02 [Zakim]
14:00:37 [fsasaki]
> *until*
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> : We need to discuss
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> and reply. I18NCORE
14:01:07 [r12a]
zakim, dial richard
14:01:07 [Zakim]
ok, r12a; the call is being made
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14:02:32 [fsasaki]
14:03:27 [Zakim]
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14:04:58 [YvesS]
14:05:26 [fsasaki]
Yves: this is the list of all issues
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.. i18ncore issues are marked as I18NCORE
14:06:23 [Zakim]
14:07:05 [fsasaki]
.. last time we discussed the editorial ones
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"default for directionality: ltr"
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Yves: is it in the default table?
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Felix: yes
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Yves: so: resolved
14:07:55 [Zakim]
14:08:25 [fsasaki]
Richard: the default table will be added to the spec which lists the defaults
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Yves: we will add a column to the table in 6.1
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14:12:21 [fsasaki]
Felix: we don't need to add global rules to XHTML 1.1
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.. and the global pointing for ruby is a feature as risk, I think
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.. because ruby is used in user agents, which might not process XPath
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Richard: you would not implement ruby by global rules alone
14:16:10 [fsasaki]
14:16:49 [fsasaki]
Felix: I think it is hard to fulfill the interpreter criterion:
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"An interpreter is a conforming simple ruby markup interpreter if it rejects nonconforming simple ruby markup, accepts conforming simple ruby markup, and, where it interprets ruby markup, does so in accordance with this specification."
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Richard: do you disagree that global ruby is useful?
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Felix: it is not useful if you apply the same conformance criteria
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Richard: if you point to content and say
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.. "this is ruby text"
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.. you say that this is used as local ruby text markup
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.. if you point to markup that does not have the distinction, it makes not sense to identify ruby markup
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Felix: so you mean only the structure?
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Richard: yes
14:28:04 [fsasaki]
[Discussion on ruby, no conclusion yet]
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Richard: the conformance section could say "we conform for ruby markup"
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Yves: looking at ruby conformance: how can something be conformant with all of this?
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Richard: it describes conformance for different things
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.. ITS is just "document" at the moment
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action: Felix to make his position on ruby more clearer in a mail
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topic: language related discussion
14:33:36 [YvesS]
14:34:16 [fsasaki]
yves summarizes the mail
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[[I also think it would be logical that our (non-normative) ITS schemas includes xml:lang where appropriate, so, for example, a user
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gets the xml:lang attribute listed when s/he is using <locInfo>.
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14:35:53 [fsasaki]
Felix: Richard, is this a step in the right direction?
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Richard: yes, but it needs to be in the spec as well
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.. I need text that says that xml:lang can be used
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.. the productions does not include all attributes, e.g. not xml:lang
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.. so to have a note which talks about xml:lang
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Yves: it would be good at the langRule element
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action: Yves to write s.t. about xml:lang in the langRule section
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action: Felix to draft s.t. about xml:lang in general
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14:39:04 [fsasaki]
"inheritance of translate information"
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[[Section 6.2: The inheritance of translate information by child elements but not
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attributes is mentioned in 6.1, but should also be mentioned in 6.2 with
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reference to the global rules as well as the local ones.
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Yves: we may have addressed that through one comment from someone else
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.. I posted a mail from someone else
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.. and he agreed
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Richard: the issue here is mostly editorial
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Yves: see
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.. that is related
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Proposed text from Yves:
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[[Locally, translatability is expressed with a translate attribute with the
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values "yes" or "no" The selection is the textual content of the element,
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including child elements, but excluding attributes. It is not possible to
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override the translatability of attributes using local markup. This limitation
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is consistent with the adviced practice of not using translatable attributes.]]
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Yves: that might help with i18n core concerns?
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Richard: this is only editorial
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Yves: only rewording necessary
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Richard: you will come back with an answer to i18n core, and we will check the rewording
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14:45:39 [fsasaki]
Yves: also solved by reworking the examples
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Richard: o.k.
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14:47:08 [fsasaki]
Yves: I'm fine with the rewording
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Christian: we looked at it already
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14:48:01 [fsasaki]
Yves: a suggestion. Up to the editors
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Christian: ITS to me also has to do with editing tools
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.. you could say editing tools may give their authors two types of information
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Yves: o.k. to leave this to the editors?
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Christian: Felix
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14:50:16 [fsasaki]
14:50:49 [r12a]
zakim, dial ishida-home
14:50:50 [Zakim]
I am sorry, r12a; I do not know a number for ishida-home
14:50:51 [Zakim]
14:50:58 [r12a]
zakim, dial richard-home
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ok, r12a; the call is being made
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14:51:34 [fsasaki]
Yves: I would agree: 22 could be a better example
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.. why do you not like 23?
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Richard: it was confusing because there is no explanation that s.t. is in a different file
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Yves: no, but (sorry, scribe missed)
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(Richard and Yves discuss the example)
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I have made the request to generate fsasaki
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I have made the request to generate fsasaki
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I have made the request to generate fsasaki
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Richard: I still don't think the example is clear
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action: Yves to review the examples 22 and 23
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Richard: if you just said in a bit of text "this is useful, because of how the variable is used ..."
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Christian: If you would have a string like "cannot find the component X"
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.. you can say the "X" is a "management system" or s.t. else
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Richard: I had similar thoughts
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.. I wrote an article for composite messages
14:57:17 [r12a]
14:57:27 [fsasaki]
Richard: that might provide examples
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14:58:00 [fsasaki]
present: Christian, Felix, Richard, Yves
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Yves: I was thinking about writing the paragraphs at some point
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action: Yves to write paragraphs for
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15:00:26 [fsasaki]
fine with everybody
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I have made the request to generate fsasaki
15:02:21 [Zakim]
15:02:23 [Zakim]
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15:33:15 [Zakim]
15:33:17 [Zakim]
I18N_ITS(EDIT)10:00AM has ended
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Attendees were Yves_Savourel, Felix, Richard, Christian
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16:34:07 [fsasaki]
rrsagent, bye
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I see 5 open action items saved in :
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ACTION: Felix to make his position on ruby more clearer in a mail [1]
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recorded in
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ACTION: Yves to write s.t. about xml:lang in the langRule section [2]
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recorded in
16:34:07 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Felix to draft s.t. about xml:lang in general [3]
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recorded in
16:34:07 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Yves to review the examples 22 and 23 [4]
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recorded in
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ACTION: Yves to write paragraphs for [5]
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recorded in
16:34:12 [fsasaki]
zakim, bye
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