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13:44:16 <fsasaki> meeting: i18n ITS working group (additional call for LC issues)
13:44:18 <fsasaki> chair: Yves
13:44:20 <fsasaki> scribe: Felix
13:44:25 <fsasaki> scribeNick: fsasaki
13:44:45 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0097.html
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13:53:13 <fsasaki> Hi Yves
13:53:39 <fsasaki> Would it be o.k. with you to take http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0099.html as the agenda, and go through I18NCORE comment?
13:53:58 <fsasaki> (the list should be complete now) in any order, as you like
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13:56:57 <YvesS> Hi Felix. Yes.
13:57:06 <fsasaki> great, tx. 
13:57:10 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0099.html
13:57:45 <Zakim> I18N_ITS(EDIT)10:00AM has now started
13:57:52 <Zakim> +Yves_Savourel
13:58:02 <Zakim> +Felix
14:00:37 <fsasaki> > http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3487 *until*
14:00:38 <fsasaki> > http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3515 : We need to discuss
14:00:38 <fsasaki> > and reply. I18NCORE
14:01:07 <r12a> zakim, dial richard
14:01:07 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
14:01:09 <Zakim> +Richard
14:02:32 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0072.html
14:03:27 <Zakim> +??P14
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14:04:58 <YvesS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0099.html
14:05:26 <fsasaki> Yves: this is the list of all issues
14:05:40 <fsasaki> .. i18ncore issues are marked as I18NCORE
14:06:23 <Zakim> -Christian
14:07:05 <fsasaki> .. last time we discussed the editorial ones
14:07:10 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3465
14:07:19 <fsasaki> "default for directionality: ltr"
14:07:48 <fsasaki> Yves: is it in the default table?
14:07:49 <fsasaki> Felix: yes
14:07:53 <fsasaki> Yves: so: resolved
14:07:55 <Zakim> +??P14
14:08:25 <fsasaki> Richard: the default table will be added to the spec which lists the defaults
14:08:44 <fsasaki> Yves: we will add a column to the table in 6.1
14:09:41 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3466
14:12:21 <fsasaki> Felix: we don't need to add global rules to XHTML 1.1
14:12:36 <fsasaki> .. and the global pointing for ruby is a feature as risk, I think
14:12:56 <fsasaki> .. because ruby is used in user agents, which might not process XPath
14:13:07 <fsasaki> Richard: you would not implement ruby by global rules alone
14:16:10 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/TR/ruby/#conformance
14:16:49 <fsasaki> Felix: I think it is hard to fulfill the interpreter criterion:
14:16:50 <fsasaki> "An interpreter is a conforming simple ruby markup interpreter if it rejects nonconforming simple ruby markup, accepts conforming simple ruby markup, and, where it interprets ruby markup, does so in accordance with this specification."
14:20:24 <fsasaki> Richard: do you disagree that global ruby is useful?
14:21:18 <fsasaki> Felix: it is not useful if you apply the same conformance criteria 
14:21:38 <fsasaki> Richard: if you point to content and say
14:21:42 <fsasaki> .. "this is ruby text"
14:21:50 <fsasaki> .. you say that this is used as local ruby text markup
14:22:45 <fsasaki> .. if you point to markup that does not have the distinction, it makes not sense to identify ruby markup
14:23:14 <fsasaki> Felix: so you mean only the structure?
14:23:17 <fsasaki> Richard: yes
14:28:04 <fsasaki> [Discussion on ruby, no conclusion yet]
14:28:32 <fsasaki> Richard: the conformance section could say "we conform for ruby markup"
14:28:54 <fsasaki> Yves: looking at ruby conformance: how can something be conformant with all of this?
14:29:09 <fsasaki> Richard: it describes conformance for different things
14:29:24 <fsasaki> .. ITS is just "document" at the moment
14:29:59 <fsasaki> action: Felix to make his position on ruby more clearer in a mail
14:31:51 <fsasaki> topic: language related discussion
14:33:36 <YvesS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0072.html
14:34:16 <fsasaki> yves summarizes the mail
14:34:47 <fsasaki> [[I also think it would be logical that our (non-normative) ITS schemas includes xml:lang where appropriate, so, for example, a user
14:34:48 <fsasaki> gets the xml:lang attribute listed when s/he is using <locInfo>.
14:34:49 <fsasaki> ]]
14:35:53 <fsasaki> Felix: Richard, is this a step in the right direction?
14:36:03 <fsasaki> Richard: yes, but it needs to be in the spec as well
14:36:29 <fsasaki> .. I need text that says that xml:lang can be used
14:36:57 <fsasaki> .. the productions does not include all attributes, e.g. not xml:lang
14:37:36 <fsasaki> .. so to have a note which talks about xml:lang
14:37:44 <fsasaki> Yves: it would be good at the langRule element
14:38:11 <fsasaki> action: Yves to write s.t. about xml:lang in the langRule section
14:38:26 <fsasaki> action: Felix to draft s.t. about xml:lang in general
14:38:58 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3482
14:39:04 <fsasaki> "inheritance of translate information"
14:39:40 <fsasaki> [[Section 6.2: The inheritance of translate information by child elements but not
14:39:41 <fsasaki> attributes is mentioned in 6.1, but should also be mentioned in 6.2 with
14:39:41 <fsasaki> reference to the global rules as well as the local ones.
14:39:41 <fsasaki> ]]
14:40:24 <fsasaki> Yves: we may have addressed that through one comment from someone else
14:40:55 <fsasaki> .. I posted a mail from someone else
14:41:37 <fsasaki> .. and he agreed
14:41:50 <fsasaki> Richard: the issue here is mostly editorial
14:42:18 <fsasaki> Yves: see http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3362
14:42:23 <fsasaki> .. that is related
14:42:43 <fsasaki> Proposed text from Yves:
14:42:44 <fsasaki> [[Locally, translatability is expressed with a translate attribute with the
14:42:44 <fsasaki> values "yes" or "no" The selection is the textual content of the element,
14:42:44 <fsasaki> including child elements, but excluding attributes. It is not possible to
14:42:44 <fsasaki> override the translatability of attributes using local markup. This limitation
14:42:44 <fsasaki> is consistent with the adviced practice of not using translatable attributes.]]
14:43:46 <fsasaki> Yves: that might help with i18n core concerns?
14:44:51 <fsasaki> Richard: this is only editorial
14:44:57 <fsasaki> Yves: only rewording necessary
14:45:16 <fsasaki> Richard: you will come back with an answer to i18n core, and we will check the rewording
14:45:24 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3487
14:45:39 <fsasaki> Yves: also solved by reworking the examples
14:45:54 <fsasaki> Richard: o.k.
14:46:00 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3488
14:47:08 <fsasaki> Yves: I'm fine with the rewording
14:47:24 <fsasaki> Christian: we looked at it already
14:47:28 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3489
14:48:01 <fsasaki> Yves: a suggestion. Up to the editors
14:49:27 <fsasaki> Christian: ITS to me also has to do with editing tools
14:49:47 <fsasaki> .. you could say editing tools may give their authors two types of information
14:49:56 <fsasaki> Yves: o.k. to leave this to the editors?
14:49:58 <fsasaki> Christian: Felix
14:50:04 <fsasaki> s/Felix/yes/
14:50:16 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3490
14:50:49 <r12a> zakim, dial ishida-home
14:50:50 <Zakim> I am sorry, r12a; I do not know a number for ishida-home
14:50:51 <Zakim> -Richard
14:50:58 <r12a> zakim, dial richard-home
14:50:58 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
14:51:00 <Zakim> +Richard
14:51:34 <fsasaki> Yves: I would agree: 22 could be a better example
14:51:40 <fsasaki> .. why do you not like 23?
14:53:12 <fsasaki> Richard: it was confusing because there is no explanation that s.t. is in a different file
14:53:25 <fsasaki> Yves: no, but  (sorry, scribe missed)
14:53:51 <fsasaki> (Richard and Yves discuss the example)
14:53:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/21-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
14:54:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/21-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
14:55:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/21-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
14:55:47 <fsasaki> Richard: I still don't think the example is clear
14:55:58 <fsasaki> action: Yves to review the examples 22 and 23
14:56:19 <fsasaki> Richard: if you just said in a bit of text "this is useful, because of how the variable is used ..."
14:56:39 <fsasaki> Christian: If you would have a string like "cannot find the component X"
14:56:53 <fsasaki> .. you can say the "X" is a "management system" or s.t. else
14:57:07 <fsasaki> Richard: I had similar thoughts
14:57:15 <fsasaki> .. I wrote an article for composite messages
14:57:17 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/articles/composite-messages/
14:57:27 <fsasaki> Richard: that might provide examples
14:57:52 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/articles/text-reuse/
14:58:00 <fsasaki> present: Christian, Felix, Richard, Yves
14:58:09 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3491
14:58:50 <fsasaki> Yves: I was thinking about writing the paragraphs at some point
14:59:05 <fsasaki> action: Yves to write paragraphs for http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3491
14:59:08 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3492
15:00:26 <fsasaki> fine with everybody
15:02:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/21-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
15:02:21 <Zakim> -Yves_Savourel
15:02:23 <Zakim> -??P14
15:33:09 <Zakim> -Felix
15:33:15 <Zakim> -Richard
15:33:17 <Zakim> I18N_ITS(EDIT)10:00AM has ended
15:33:19 <Zakim> Attendees were Yves_Savourel, Felix, Richard, Christian
15:42:32 <r12a> r12a has left #i18nits
16:34:07 <fsasaki> rrsagent, bye
16:34:07 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/21-i18nits-actions.rdf :
16:34:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Felix to make his position on ruby more clearer in a mail [1]
16:34:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/21-i18nits-irc#T14-29-59
16:34:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Yves to write s.t. about xml:lang in the langRule section [2]
16:34:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/21-i18nits-irc#T14-38-11
16:34:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Felix to draft s.t. about xml:lang in general [3]
16:34:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/21-i18nits-irc#T14-38-26
16:34:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Yves to review the examples 22 and 23 [4]
16:34:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/21-i18nits-irc#T14-55-58
16:34:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Yves to write paragraphs for http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3491 [5]
16:34:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/21-i18nits-irc#T14-59-05
16:34:12 <fsasaki> zakim, bye
16:34:12 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18nits
16:34:17 <fsasaki> fsasaki has left #i18nits