IRC log of ws-desc on 2006-07-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:58:26 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/07/13-ws-desc-irc
13:58:36 [TonyR]
zakim, this will be wsdl
13:58:36 [Jonathan]
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13:58:36 [Zakim]
ok, TonyR; I see WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
14:01:18 [Zakim]
WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM has now started
14:01:22 [Zakim]
+??P6
14:01:35 [TonyR]
zakim, ??p6 is me
14:01:35 [Zakim]
+TonyR; got it
14:02:27 [Zakim]
+Arthur_Ryman
14:02:35 [Arthur]
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14:03:15 [Zakim]
+Jonathan_Marsh
14:11:00 [youenn]
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14:11:18 [TonyR]
Arthur: if I am processing a WSDL document and encounter an extension I do not recognise, with wsdl:required=true, is the document invalid?
14:11:47 [TonyR]
Tony & Jonathan: yes, it is invalid (in the context)
14:12:26 [TonyR]
Arthur: if, on the other hand, it is marked wsdl:required=false, is it valid?
14:12:48 [TonyR]
Tony & Jonathan: yes, it is valid (unless otherwise invalid)
14:13:45 [Zakim]
+??P19
14:13:56 [TonyR]
Arthur: just deciding where to put the test cases
14:14:57 [TonyR]
Arthur: might be a good idea to issue a warning when encountering a unrecognised extension (even with required=false)
14:16:00 [TonyR]
action item Arthur test cases for message exchanges from a simple WSDL - done
14:22:01 [TonyR]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:22:01 [Zakim]
On the phone I see TonyR, Arthur_Ryman, Jonathan_Marsh, ??P19
14:29:43 [Zakim]
-??P19
14:30:44 [Zakim]
+Canon
14:31:27 [GlenD]
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14:32:18 [GlenD]
hi Tony!
14:47:59 [youenn]
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14:50:07 [Zakim]
This conference is scheduled to end in 10 minutes; all ports must be freed
14:55:04 [Zakim]
This conference is scheduled to end in 5 minutes; all ports must be freed
14:56:07 [Gil]
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14:56:55 [Zakim]
-Jonathan_Marsh
14:56:56 [Zakim]
-Canon
14:56:59 [Zakim]
-TonyR
14:57:00 [Zakim]
WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM has ended
14:57:01 [Zakim]
Attendees were TonyR, Arthur_Ryman, Jonathan_Marsh, Canon
14:57:09 [Jonathan]
Zakim, this is WS_Desc
14:57:09 [Zakim]
"WS_Desc" matches WS_DescWG()11:00AM, and WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM, Jonathan
14:57:44 [TonyR]
zakim, this is wsdwg
14:57:44 [Zakim]
ok, TonyR; that matches WS_DescWG()11:00AM
14:57:47 [Zakim]
+Jonathan_Marsh
14:58:06 [Zakim]
+Gilbert_Pilz
14:58:14 [Zakim]
+??P17
14:58:23 [TonyR]
zakim, ??p17 is me
14:58:23 [Zakim]
+TonyR; got it
14:58:31 [TonyR]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:58:31 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Jonathan_Marsh, Gilbert_Pilz, TonyR
14:58:58 [Bozhong]
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15:01:01 [Zakim]
+??P13
15:01:30 [GlenD]
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15:01:33 [alewis]
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15:02:03 [Zakim]
-??P13
15:02:18 [Jonathan]
RRSAgent, set log world
15:02:39 [Zakim]
+Amelia_Lewis
15:02:45 [Zakim]
+Arthur_Ryman
15:03:00 [Roberto]
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15:03:34 [Zakim]
+??P4
15:03:36 [Zakim]
+Roberto_Chinnici
15:03:46 [Roberto]
zakim, Roberto_Chinnici is me
15:03:46 [Zakim]
+Roberto; got it
15:04:03 [Jonathan]
Zakim, ??P4 is Bozhong
15:04:03 [Zakim]
+Bozhong; got it
15:04:38 [JacekK]
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15:05:09 [Zakim]
+[DERI]
15:05:17 [Allen]
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15:05:45 [Roberto]
scribe: Roberto
15:06:05 [Roberto]
Jonathan: minutes are approved
15:06:19 [Roberto]
Topic: review of action items
15:08:02 [Zakim]
+??P39
15:08:18 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:08:28 [youenn]
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15:08:57 [Allen]
zakim, [IPcaller] is Allen
15:08:57 [Zakim]
+Allen; got it
15:09:31 [Jonathan]
Zakim, ??P39 is Youenn
15:09:31 [Zakim]
+Youenn; got it
15:09:48 [Roberto]
Topic: administrivia
15:10:18 [Roberto]
Jonathan: next telcon July 20th
15:10:38 [Roberto]
Jonathan: several people missing on July 27th
15:10:54 [Roberto]
Jonathan: not heard back on the SPARQL wsdl bug
15:11:49 [Roberto]
Jonathan: sees no reason for adding (d) to the issues list
15:12:10 [Roberto]
Jonathan: got query from WS-I BP asking for requiredness of targetNamespace in wsdl 2.0
15:12:28 [Roberto]
Jonathan: little traffic on the list on this issue
15:12:50 [Roberto]
Arthur: related to code generation, where namespaces are mapped to packages
15:13:39 [Roberto]
... also a good idea to avoid naming conflicts and simplify things
15:13:46 [Roberto]
... WS-I should recommend it
15:14:05 [Roberto]
Jacek: namespaces are goodness and WS-I should mandate them
15:14:59 [Roberto]
Topic: interop event report
15:15:52 [Roberto]
Arthur: very productive event, the test suite got x3 bigger
15:16:03 [Roberto]
... also got better reporting tools
15:16:24 [Roberto]
... need WG members to help fill the gaps in the test suite
15:17:11 [Roberto]
Jonathan: test cases for broken assertions a priority
15:19:51 [Arthur]
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15:19:54 [Arthur]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/assertions-report.html?content-type=text/html;%20charset=utf-8
15:22:33 [Arthur]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/
15:23:36 [Arthur]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/test-suite.xml
15:25:32 [Arthur]
here's the woden site: http://incubator.apache.org/woden/
15:31:00 [Jonathan]
zakim, who's making noise
15:31:00 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who's making noise', Jonathan
15:31:03 [Roberto]
Jonathan: would like to have a new interop event in late September
15:31:08 [Jonathan]
zakim, who's making noise?
15:31:19 [Zakim]
Jonathan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Roberto (19%), Jonathan_Marsh (68%), Arthur_Ryman (40%), Gilbert_Pilz (5%)
15:32:25 [GlenD]
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15:32:26 [Roberto]
Topic: issue CR044
15:34:04 [Roberto]
Arthur: "implements" is a common word
15:34:26 [Roberto]
TonyR: it's the endpoint that does the implementing, not the binding
15:35:09 [Roberto]
Allen: how about "binds"?
15:36:50 [Roberto]
Roberto: tried to avoid anything that conveyed a static relationship
15:37:01 [Jonathan]
zakim, who's making noise?
15:37:12 [Zakim]
Jonathan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Jonathan_Marsh (59%), [DERI] (5%)
15:37:38 [chad]
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15:37:43 [Jonathan]
chad: new poll
15:37:43 [chad]
new poll
15:37:53 [Jonathan]
chad: question: terminology
15:37:59 [Jonathan]
chad: option 1: applies
15:38:05 [Jonathan]
chad: option 2: implements
15:38:11 [Jonathan]
chad: option 3: binds
15:38:23 [Jonathan]
Chad: option 1: is applied to
15:38:51 [Jonathan]
chad: option 4: qualifies
15:39:50 [Jonathan]
chad: question?
15:40:00 [Jonathan]
chad: options?
15:40:32 [JacekK]
vote: 1, 3
15:40:42 [Allen]
vote: 3,1
15:40:45 [Arthur]
vote: 3, 2, 1
15:40:47 [TonyR]
vote: 4, 3, 1
15:41:01 [Gil]
vote 4,3,1
15:41:07 [Jonathan]
vote: 1, 2, 4, 3
15:41:16 [Gil]
vote: 4,3,1
15:41:19 [youenn]
vote: 1,2,3,4
15:41:26 [Roberto]
vote: 1, 4, 2, 3
15:41:57 [Jonathan]
chad, count
15:41:57 [chad]
Question: terminology
15:41:57 [chad]
Option 1: is applied to (4)
15:41:57 [chad]
Option 2: implements (0)
15:41:57 [chad]
Option 3: binds (2)
15:41:57 [chad]
Option 4: qualifies (2)
15:41:58 [chad]
8 voters: Allen (3,1),Arthur (3,2,1),Gil (4,3,1),JacekK (1,3),Jonathan (1,2,4,3),Roberto (1,4,2,3),TonyR (4,3,1),youenn (1,2,3,4)
15:42:01 [chad]
Round 1: Count of first place rankings.
15:42:03 [chad]
Round 2: First elimination round.
15:42:05 [chad]
Eliminating candidadates without any votes.
15:42:07 [chad]
Eliminating candidate 2.
15:42:09 [chad]
Round 3: Tie when choosing candidate to eliminate.
15:42:11 [chad]
Tie at round 2 between 3, 4.
15:42:13 [chad]
Tie at round 1 between 3, 4.
15:42:15 [chad]
Tie broken randomly.
15:42:17 [chad]
Eliminating candidate 4.
15:42:19 [chad]
Round 4: Tie when choosing candidate to eliminate.
15:42:21 [chad]
Tie at round 3 between 1, 3.
15:42:23 [chad]
Candidate 3 has the fewest votes at round 2.
15:42:25 [chad]
Eliminating candidate 3.
15:42:27 [chad]
Candidate 1 is elected.
15:42:29 [chad]
Winner is option 1 - is applied to
15:42:39 [Roberto]
Jonathan: option 1 wins
15:43:40 [Roberto]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2006Jul/0057.html
15:45:16 [Roberto]
jacek: wants to avoid interpreting these properties as component properties
15:45:39 [Roberto]
... the proposed text doesn't do that
15:47:09 [Roberto]
... describing his proposal (.7)
15:52:20 [Roberto]
ACTION: Roberto to produce an updated proposal for CR044
15:52:57 [Jonathan]
Topic: CR070
15:53:58 [Roberto]
Roberto: that was the intent of the spec
15:54:00 [Zakim]
-Gilbert_Pilz
15:54:11 [Roberto]
Jonathan: no objections to approving the proposal
15:54:31 [Roberto]
RESOLUTION: proposed solution to cr070 accepted
15:54:41 [Roberto]
Topic: CR071
15:55:53 [Jonathan]
zakim, who's making noise?
15:55:56 [Zakim]
+Gilbert_Pilz
15:56:03 [Zakim]
Jonathan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Roberto (24%), Jonathan_Marsh (30%), Arthur_Ryman (10%), Allen (4%)
15:56:05 [Roberto]
Roberto: proposes to close with no action
15:58:37 [Zakim]
-Allen
16:00:24 [Roberto]
RESOLUTION: closed with no change to the spec
16:00:27 [Roberto]
Topic: CR072
16:03:02 [Roberto]
Jonathan: first part of the message is CR055
16:03:38 [Roberto]
Arthur: the property won't be present unless the extension is known
16:03:54 [Roberto]
Jonathan: so this issue seems to be a duplicate of CR050
16:05:13 [Roberto]
Jonathan: last part of the issue is a typo
16:05:17 [Roberto]
Arthur: it's already fixed
16:05:58 [Roberto]
RESOLUTION: close CR072 as duplicate
16:06:05 [Roberto]
Topic: CR074
16:07:04 [Roberto]
Arthur: the rule was that we wouldn't duplicate constraints already enforced by the (normative) schema
16:07:47 [Roberto]
... we could also leave them in and add them to a special "enforced" class
16:08:18 [Roberto]
Roberto: prefers consistency
16:08:24 [Roberto]
TonyR: +1
16:09:03 [Roberto]
Jacek: Remove "MUST"
16:10:44 [Roberto]
Arthur: if you are constructing a component model without a document, there are many more constraints you risk violating
16:11:14 [Roberto]
Jonathan: minimal change is to remove the assertion markup as change "MUST" to "is"
16:11:59 [Roberto]
(actually, "MUST be" to "is")
16:13:42 [Roberto]
RESOLUTION: close CR074 and fix those assertions by removing the assertion markup and changing "MUST be" to "is"
16:14:46 [Roberto]
Topic: CR073
16:15:14 [Roberto]
Arthur: proposal is to split sentences so that each MUST is its own assertion
16:16:01 [Roberto]
Jonathan: #1 is a small grammatical change (adding some commas)
16:16:20 [Roberto]
s/grammatical/punctuation/
16:16:42 [Roberto]
Jonathan: #1 accepted
16:16:58 [Roberto]
Jonathan: #2 is a single sentence with two MUST and MUST NOT but one assertion
16:17:29 [Roberto]
Jonathan: #2, #3 accepted
16:20:00 [Roberto]
Jonathan: for #4 the proposal is to split the first sentence in two and drop the last one
16:20:05 [Roberto]
Jonathan: #4 approved
16:20:17 [Roberto]
Jonathan: #5 is simply splitting in two
16:20:22 [Roberto]
Jonathan: #5 approved
16:21:08 [Roberto]
RESOLUTION: close CR073, accept all changes and additionally split the first sentence in item #4 of the proposal
16:21:15 [Roberto]
Topic: CR075
16:21:24 [JacekK]
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16:21:50 [Roberto]
Jonathan: #1 proposal is changing the assertion markup
16:23:23 [Roberto]
Arthur: make "MAY" into a "may"
16:23:31 [Roberto]
... and add "Note that" at the beginning
16:25:12 [Roberto]
Jonathan: #1 adopted with Arthur's amendment
16:25:53 [Roberto]
Jonathan: #2 is rewording the part with "MAY" and make the other sentence a separate assertion
16:26:39 [Roberto]
Jonathan: #2 approved
16:28:52 [Roberto]
Roberto: last bullet point in 4.2 has two assertions too
16:29:26 [Roberto]
Jonathan: we could insert "furthermore" before the "MUST NOT" and mark it up as two assertions
16:31:26 [Roberto]
RESOLUTION: close CR075, approve the suggestions with Arthur's amendment, have the editors also fix the last bullet in 4.2
16:33:09 [Zakim]
-Amelia_Lewis
16:33:10 [Zakim]
-Arthur_Ryman
16:33:10 [Zakim]
-Youenn
16:33:11 [Zakim]
-Roberto
16:33:13 [Zakim]
-[DERI]
16:33:15 [Zakim]
-Gilbert_Pilz
16:33:18 [Zakim]
-Jonathan_Marsh
16:33:19 [Zakim]
-TonyR
16:33:20 [Jonathan]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:33:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/13-ws-desc-minutes.html Jonathan
16:33:22 [Gil]
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16:35:04 [TonyR]
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16:37:35 [Jonathan]
zakim, bye
16:37:35 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Jonathan_Marsh, Gilbert_Pilz, TonyR, Amelia_Lewis, Arthur_Ryman, Roberto, Bozhong, [DERI], Allen, Youenn
16:37:35 [Zakim]
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16:37:51 [Jonathan]
Meeting: WS Description telcon
16:37:57 [Jonathan]
Chair: Jonathan
16:38:11 [Jonathan]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:38:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/13-ws-desc-minutes.html Jonathan
16:48:20 [sanjiva_]
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