07:57:58 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mmsem
07:57:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-irc
07:58:00 <jacco> jacco has joined #mmsem
07:58:13 <raphael> zakim, what conferences
07:58:13 <Zakim> raphael, you need to end that query with '?'
07:58:16 <raphael> zakim, what conferences?
07:58:16 <Zakim> I see no active conferences
07:58:18 <Zakim> scheduled at this time is INC_MMSEM(F2F)3:00AM
07:58:32 <raphael> zakim, this is INC_MMSEM(F2F)
07:58:32 <Zakim> raphael, I see INC_MMSEM(F2F)3:00AM in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be INC_MMSEM(F2F)".
07:59:17 <jacco> jacco has changed the topic to: W3C Multimedia Semantics Incubator Group face to face meeting, Amsterdam, Day 2
07:59:38 <jacco> rrsagent, draft minutes
07:59:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html jacco
08:00:06 <jacco> rrsagent, make logs public
08:00:33 <raphael> zakim, this is INC_MMSEM(F2F)
08:00:33 <Zakim> ok, raphael; that matches INC_MMSEM(F2F)3:00AM
08:01:05 <IoannisPratikakis> IoannisPratikakis has joined #mmsem
08:01:26 <jacco> Meeting: W3C Multimedia Semantics Incubator Group face to face meeting, Amsterdam, Day 2
08:02:12 <raphael> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-mmsem/2006Jul/0009.html
08:02:16 <raphael> Chair: Raphael
08:02:23 <JeffP> JeffP has joined #mmsem
08:03:19 <Zakim> +Jeff_Pan
08:05:54 <jacco> rrsagent, draft minutes
08:05:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html jacco
08:06:27 <raphael> zakim, ??P1 is meeting_room
08:06:27 <Zakim> +meeting_room; got it
08:07:31 <jacco> Topic: Demos by Patrizia & Giovanni
08:10:14 <anadioti> anadioti has joined #mmsem
08:11:11 <jacco> rrsagent, draft minutes
08:11:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html jacco
08:11:16 <vasileios> vasileios has joined #mmsem
08:11:44 <Thomas> Thomas has joined #mmsem
08:12:07 <jacco> scribe: Thomas
08:12:30 <jacco> regrets: Susanne Boll
08:13:03 <alessio> alessio has joined #mmsem
08:13:46 <alessio> hi all
08:14:20 <JeffP> Hi alessio
08:14:38 <pasquale> hi all, from Naples, Italy
08:14:40 <JeffP> are the slides online?
08:14:49 <jacco> participants: Ioannias, Vasileios, VassilisThomas, Raphael, Patrizia, George, Lynda, Jacco, Giovanni, Christian, Jeff, Pasquale, Alessio, Massimo
08:15:07 <jacco> rrsagent, draft minutes
08:15:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html jacco
08:15:16 <lynda> lynda has joined #mmsem
08:15:22 <Massimo> hi all
08:15:34 <JeffP> Hi Massimo
08:17:01 <jacco> Patrizia presenting slides at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/mmsem/meetings/f2f-amsterdam/mmsem-member-presentation-pat3.ppt
08:18:22 <jacco> Patrizia explaining links with MUSCLE, mm ontology requirements effort etc 
08:21:07 <thristo> thristo has joined #mmsem
08:21:28 <thristo> thristo has left #mmsem
08:23:32 <Thomas> Patrizia explains the 4M (MultiMedia Metadata Management) Infrastructure
08:23:43 <vasileios> massimo, which software do you use for the extraction of MPEG-7 descriptors?
08:23:50 <christian> christian has joined #mmsem
08:23:53 <jacco> present: Ioannias, Vasileios, VassilisThomas, Raphael, Patrizia, George, Lynda, Jacco, Giovanni, Christian, Jeff, Pasquale, Alessio, Massimo
08:23:54 <JeffP> Hi Massimo: Yes, the irc log is public, we can either edit the minutes later to ensure the context of your texts are properly  specified, or we can send it to the mailing list so that we don't have to dig it out from the minutes later.
08:23:57 <Massimo> we have extended emir and mpeg-7 encoder
08:24:07 <VassilisT> VassilisT has joined #mmsem
08:24:15 <jacco> rssagent, pointer
08:24:20 <jacco> rrsagent, pointer
08:24:20 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-irc#T08-24-20
08:24:44 <jacco> massimo, see above for the log
08:25:03 <Massimo> Hi Jeff/Jacco, ok
08:27:35 <giovannit> giovannit has joined #mmsem
08:27:37 <Zakim> +massimo
08:27:50 <jacco> Other resources, slides, minutes etc at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/mmsem/#Meetings
08:28:29 <Thomas> Raphael asking Patrizia: can you give an example of how to use the Algorithms Thesaurus?
08:28:44 <Zakim> -massimo
08:29:21 <Thomas> Patrizia: Algorithms Thesaurus used to establish provenance information
08:30:17 <Thomas> Patrizia: ... to define formal processes that include the algorithms used
08:30:21 <JeffP> q+ on expressive power 
08:30:42 <JeffP> q+
08:30:43 <jacco> present+ Roberto
08:33:00 <jacco> jeff asks about the expressive power wrt swrl and owl that patrizia needs
08:33:00 <JeffP> jeff: what expressive power do you need from owl and swrl
08:33:53 <jacco> Patrizia: not thought very deeply about this, but we need some formal way to express rules
08:34:20 <Thomas> there is not yet a schedule for when the work on the algorithms ontology will be finished
08:34:39 <IoannisPratikakis> A question to Massimo:: Can you give an example of the existing relations in the Algorithms ontology ?
08:35:42 <JeffP> q+
08:36:13 <Massimo> we thought of a sort of definition on how algorithms can be combined together
08:36:41 <Massimo> on the base of the multimedia object, the problem and the possible solutions
08:38:36 <jacco> jeff: asks what kind of rules you need, for example, do you need disjunction in the head, or do you need the vocabulary of the ontology in the rules
08:38:55 <Massimo> an example (thought now): suppose we need to obtain the contours of objects in an image and locate salient features (more specifically, how it is possible to extract features and locate a fracture on a Xray image)
08:39:01 <jacco> Patrizia: not sure, but we assume the rules are built on top of the ontology
08:39:50 <jacco> jeff: what are the rules used for?
08:40:11 <jacco> Patrizia: I'm not sure yet: we've just started
08:42:21 <Thomas> Giovanni presents DBin, on the DBin website there is a screen demo to follow
08:42:59 <jacco> DBin: http://dbin.org
08:47:49 <Thomas> DBin provides brainlets: environments for specific data/tasks that customize the user interface
08:56:02 <Thomas> Patrizia: can people modify the ontology?
09:00:57 <Thomas> Giovanni: creators of brainlets define the ontologies, you can install/deinstall ontologies
09:02:31 <jacco> jacco has joined #mmsem
09:03:13 <jacco> rrsagent, draft minutes
09:03:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html jacco
09:03:49 <Thomas> Raphael: please show how to annotate a photo
09:06:42 <Thomas> Giovanni: you can use any property given by the ontologies of the brainlet to add annotations to resources
09:12:35 <Zakim> -meeting_room
09:12:53 <JeffP> -meeting_room offline ...
09:13:03 <jacco> we're calling back in ...
09:13:06 <JeffP> ok
09:13:25 <VassilisT> nice
09:13:29 <Zakim> +??P1
09:13:47 <jacco> zakim, +??P1 is meeting_room
09:13:47 <Zakim> sorry, jacco, I do not recognize a party named '+??P1'
09:13:51 <jacco> zakim, ??P1 is meeting_room
09:13:51 <Zakim> +meeting_room; got it
09:18:27 <jacco> Having short coffee break
09:18:57 <VassilisT> ok
09:19:02 <jacco> Topic: Multimedia Annotation Exercise Session
09:24:07 <Jeff> Jeff has joined #mmsem
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09:25:18 <jacco> Raphael explains set up of the annotation session.
09:26:12 <Jeff> I was out for minute, can you send the URL again?
09:26:15 <jacco> Mostly personal photos of beaches, anything, any tool, any vocabulary is allowed
09:26:32 <jacco> jeff, no url has been sent yet
09:26:35 <raphael> World Cup photos: http://www.apa-images.at/cms/site/EN/breakingnews.html;jsessionid=agCHvRUiTwE7
09:28:20 <raphael> World cup videos: http://www.euronews.net/create_html.php?page=detail_info&article=368313&lng=2
09:28:26 <Zakim> +massimo
09:30:22 <raphael> Video: http://today.reuters.com/tv/videoChannel.aspx?storyid=2ba9545293e136702fab402c94af125ea8560bc1
09:30:41 <raphael> Photos: http://photos.reuters.com/Pictures/default.aspx
09:32:20 <raphael> Video Clip: http://www.rap2k.com/clip-1218-mas-que-nada-feat-black-eyed-peas-sergio-mendes.html#open
09:32:28 <raphael> Lyrics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mas_Que_Nada
09:32:45 <raphael> Official Web Site: http://www.blackeyedpeas.com and http://www.brasil66.com/
09:36:41 <raphael> Temporary URLs of media files: http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/W3C/
09:38:27 <Zakim> -massimo
09:38:43 <jacco> thanks massimo
09:39:04 <jacco> massimo, you can phone in, we will just mute you
09:39:19 <Massimo> ok, i'll retry!
09:41:26 <alessio_> alessio_ has joined #mmsem
09:46:40 <v> v has joined #mmsem
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10:23:11 <raphael> there is now a Beach ontology at: http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/W3C/
10:23:22 <raphael> for annotating the personal photos
10:26:22 <raphael> Massimo, please, DCC me the file
10:26:24 <raphael> you're flooding
10:35:17 <Zakim> -Vassilis
10:41:34 <Zakim> -Jeff_Pan
10:41:50 <jacco> lunch break
10:42:09 <jacco> rrsagent, draft minutes
10:42:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html jacco
10:44:24 <Massimo> see you later (sorry for the previous flooding)
10:56:27 <Zakim> -meeting_room
10:56:29 <Zakim> INC_MMSEM(F2F)3:00AM has ended
10:56:31 <Zakim> Attendees were Vassilis, Jeff_Pan, meeting_room, massimo
11:25:14 <jacco> zakim, this will be INC_MMSEM(F2F)3:00AM
11:25:14 <Zakim> ok, jacco; I see INC_MMSEM(F2F)3:00AM scheduled to start 265 minutes ago
11:25:24 <IoannisPratikakis> IoannisPratikakis has joined #mmsem
11:26:22 <Zakim> INC_MMSEM(F2F)3:00AM has now started
11:26:29 <Zakim> +??P0
11:26:48 <jacco> zakim, ??P0 is meeting_room
11:26:48 <Zakim> +meeting_room; got it
11:33:28 <anadiotis> Sample RDF output : http://www.flickr.com/services/feeds/photos_public.gne?id=11026577@N00&tags=http://www.flickr.com/photos/11026577@N00/187187881&format=rss2
11:33:37 <jacco> my annotations are at
11:33:51 <jacco> http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jrvosse/spool/try.rdf, http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jrvosse/spool/try2.rdf, http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jrvosse/spool/ct.rdf
11:44:05 <anadiotis> More sample RDF output : http://homepages.cwi.nl/~anadioti/RDF/rembrandt.rdf
11:46:32 <vasileios> massimo, which annotation tool have you used for the extraction of the massimo.mp7 file?
11:47:20 <Massimo> our 4M
11:47:59 <Zakim> +Vassilis
11:48:39 <vasileios> massimo, is this tool publicly available?
11:49:18 <Massimo> it's developed under the MUSCLE NoE, so i don't know the copyright policy
11:49:53 <vasileios> so, I assume there is no currently available version for download and testing
11:50:40 <Massimo> the thing we are thinking to propose to MUSCLE is if we can give an URI where people can connect and upload multimedia object, when MUSCLE will finish we would like to open the code
11:51:00 <IoannisPratikakis> Massimo, does '4M' support other descriptors than MPEG-7 ones ?
11:51:18 <Massimo> not at the moment
11:51:55 <Massimo> we started the developement less than one year ago, we would like to add some more features 
11:52:19 <raphael> ALL: go on http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/W3C/multimedia/
11:52:38 <IoannisPratikakis> have you used the MPEG-7 XM software for '4M'?
11:52:44 <Massimo> no
11:53:16 <Massimo> we started with vizir (emir)  and  mpeg7encoder,  it's all written in java
11:54:00 <Massimo> we compiled XM6.1  on a windows pc (terrible experience) and we've use it to compare the results
11:55:12 <vasileios> massimo, i can see from the massimo.mp7 file that the descriptors have been extracted for the whole image (i.e. not region-based). Is this right?
11:55:18 <Massimo> but 4M extracts more features than XM now: some less for images, a lot more for audio, some for video
11:57:47 <Massimo> yes you're right
11:58:19 <Massimo> that is the next module under developing
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12:03:11 <Zakim> +Jeff_Pan
12:03:52 <Jeff> http://www.csd.abdn.ac.uk/~jpan/w3c/mm-annotation/mm-annotation.rdf
12:05:47 <Thomas> my "handmade" rdf file is at http://www.uni-koblenz.de/~franz/manual.rdf
12:06:25 <jacco> jeff, <rdf:Description rdf:about="photo:DSC03139.JPG"/> should be <rdf:Description rdf:about="photo:DSC03139.JPG">
12:06:34 <jacco> without the slash in the end
12:08:04 <raphael> Jeff, all RDF files are at: http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/W3C/multimedia/annotations/
12:08:08 <raphael> yours too
12:09:17 <Jeff> thanks
12:11:51 <jacco> jeff, can you put a real url to an image in your rdf:about
12:11:56 <jacco> ?
12:12:18 <Jeff> ok
12:12:38 <jacco> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:12:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html jacco
12:14:04 <Jeff> jacco, done
12:14:18 <Jeff> http://www.csd.abdn.ac.uk/~jpan/w3c/mm-annotation/mm-annotation.rdf
12:14:46 <anadiotis> Round table - details about what everyone did and how
12:15:26 <anadiotis> Vassilis and Ioannis used PhotoStuff
12:15:35 <Massimo> (i can't see the last rdf)
12:15:48 <jacco> scribe: anadiotis
12:15:56 <anadiotis> Limitations: no low-level feature extraction, no automatic segmentation
12:16:23 <jacco> jeff, we get an access denied on your RDF page
12:16:32 <Jeff> it should be fine now
12:16:58 <Jeff> ?
12:16:59 <anadiotis> Could have used M-OntomatAnotizer, that deals with issues, but not yet publicly available
12:17:36 <anadiotis> Thomas : tried to use PhotoStuff + Protege
12:17:50 <anadiotis> Issues : could not load ontology to Protege
12:17:58 <anadiotis> Did manual annotations..
12:18:42 <anadiotis> Massimo : obtained MPEG-7 using 4M
12:19:09 <Massimo> RDF: foafer, image annotator (notepad to add the coordinates, and google to check). MPEG-7: 4M. OWL: Swoogle 
12:19:17 <lynda> george used 2 different methods: uploaded picture to flickr, added regional annotations.
12:19:22 <lynda> Also added URL of picture.
12:19:35 <lynda> Then created RSS of this.
12:20:00 <rellero_> rellero_ has joined #mmsem
12:20:06 <lynda> Template Newsml of picture, found news codes, sample file ->  converter for RDF
12:21:27 <anadiotis> Jacco : tried to upload WordNet - crashed Protege
12:21:53 <anadiotis> Then used Raphael's beach ontology
12:22:08 <anadiotis> Raphael : created beach ontology with Protege
12:22:33 <anadiotis> Then used it with PhotoStuff to annotate the pictures
12:22:49 <Massimo> (opps SWOOP2.3 for owl not swoogle)
12:22:54 <anadiotis> PhotoStuff does not support properties
12:23:45 <anadiotis> (it does in the latest version - Raphael was using a previous one)
12:24:09 <anadiotis> Lynda : could not produce an RDF
12:24:23 <anadiotis> tried to find all the ontologies
12:25:00 <anadiotis> also tried with NewsML, but could not find the NewsCodes
12:25:05 <jacco> jacco: I used http://www.mindswap.org/2003/PhotoStuff/webstarts/PhotoStuff-3.33/PhotoStuff-20060531.zip
12:25:11 <anadiotis> syntax was difficult to use too
12:29:11 <anadiotis> Giovanni + Christian : set up environment, fixed broken soccer ontology, loaded ontologies
12:29:18 <jacco> giovanni: set up an environment in dbin.org to annote images
12:31:15 <anadiotis> Giovanni + Christian : Found a simplified MPGE-7 ontology
12:31:45 <anadiotis> Inserted new images by navigating the ontology and creating new 'image' instance
12:32:55 <jacco> added line to say place was a geo:spatialthing
12:34:27 <Jeff> The owl-full bug is fixed, see
12:34:28 <Jeff> http://www.csd.abdn.ac.uk/~jpan/w3c/mm-annotation/mm-annotation.rdf
12:34:44 <anadiotis> Giovanni : also used geographic ontology
12:35:35 <anadiotis> Giovanni : in the end everything is exported in a single RDF file
12:36:55 <anadiotis> wrap-up by Raphael : everyone went for images
12:37:03 <anadiotis> initially at least
12:38:25 <anadiotis> Giovanni : why is precise region-drawing important? Aren't most use cases covered by rectangle selction?
12:39:32 <anadiotis> Ioannis : Precise region marking helps achieving better feature extraction
12:41:30 <anadiotis> Raphael : purpose of the hands-on exercise was to show issues with ontology-based annotation
12:41:57 <anadiotis> Raphael : discussion on the roadmap follows
12:42:09 <raphael> Topic: MMSem XG roadmap
12:43:51 <raphael> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html
12:48:04 <Zakim> +massimo
12:48:58 <jacco> Music use case: id of track, diff perf. of the same song; different encodings
12:49:18 <jacco> id3 tags, CDDB data, musicbrainz
12:49:48 <jacco> classification of music on rythm,tempo,gentre, which ontologies to use
12:50:22 <jacco> lyrics: paper about finding music based on lyrics
12:50:44 <jacco> thierry: there is a more or less standard linguistic annotation scheme
12:51:00 <jacco> (by us/ISO)
12:52:07 <chalaschek> chalaschek has joined #MMSEM
12:53:06 <jacco> present+ Chris
12:53:45 <jacco> link text of lyrics to audio? manual/automatic
12:54:08 <jacco> or use mpeg-7 linguistic scheme
12:54:52 <jacco> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:54:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html jacco
12:55:35 <jacco> thierry was talking
12:55:46 <jacco> now giovanni
12:55:54 <Jeff> thanks
12:57:28 <jacco> raphael: we first need to describe the problem of the use case, than the general solution. only highlight specific tools as example
12:58:26 <Zakim> -massimo
12:58:37 <jacco> thomas: what is the intention of listing these problems, this is not in the context of the real use case?
12:58:51 <jacco> What is the added value of SW?
12:59:08 <jacco> Raphael: Yes, this will be key to all use cases
12:59:58 <jacco> Thomas: yes, so we need a real scenario in which these problems occur
13:00:59 <jacco> raphael: we can be creative and can reuse all relevant RDF out there on the web, as long as it fits in a real scenario
13:01:57 <jacco> giovanni: music browsing, with intelligent "next" button, or locating scenario
13:02:27 <jacco> we can show how the problems listed so far relate to the use case
13:02:55 <jacco> Thomas:music browsing is too generic, need a real specific scenario
13:04:55 <jacco> patrizia: is a tool from vienna that does similar stuff
13:05:38 <jacco> action: patrizia to find pointer to this tool
13:06:34 <jacco> Rapahel: structured annotation of the lyrics?
13:06:56 <jacco> Thierry: we could do that, but we are not so strong in classifaction
13:08:40 <jacco> looking at http://freedb.org
13:11:11 <anadiotis> jacco : aim is to produce readable documents, so compact and specific use-cases are required
13:12:23 <Jeff> agreed
13:13:29 <jacco> Low level feature extraction use case:
13:13:53 <Jeff> which use case are we talking about?
13:14:19 <jacco> current tools represent results of extraction in XML/MPEG7, why do we need RDF/OWL?
13:15:06 <jacco> Jeff, this is use case http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action04
13:15:41 <jacco> Christian, there is overlap with Massimo's use case 
13:15:49 <jacco> Christian: there is overlap with Massimo's use case 
13:16:07 <jacco> So we should provide a link
13:16:09 <Jeff> thanks
13:16:21 <Vassilis> q+
13:17:17 <jacco> Advantages of RDF: combine with background knowledge, bootstrap and infer more information
13:18:08 <jacco> Patrizia:we also have the semantics of the algorithm
13:19:12 <jacco> Vassilis: two issues: we must have use cases that cover a broad range of languages and vocabularies
13:19:38 <jacco> not all use cases should be based on mpeg-7, not all shou
13:19:59 <jacco> not all use cases should be based on mpeg-7, not all should only use RDF, but also different flavours of OWL
13:20:20 <jacco> otherwise we cannot show interoperability
13:22:01 <Vassilis> ack me
13:22:09 <jacco> Vassilis: we should use many metadata standards, not just three
13:22:14 <jacco> all agree
13:23:52 <jacco> Ioannis: we need spatio-temporal relations to be supported
13:26:54 <Vassilis> q+
13:27:53 <jacco> ack Vassilis
13:28:46 <jacco> Vassilis: spatio temporal relations are, from a language perspective, just relations, so there is not a issue
13:29:31 <Jeff> q+
13:29:34 <jacco> the problem could be on the reasoning level
13:30:26 <chalaschek> yes the problem is on the reasoning level
13:31:05 <jacco> ack Jeff
13:32:27 <jacco> jeff: I agree with Vassilis, can do something even if spatio-temporal reasoning is not supported
13:33:30 <jacco> Unstructured tagging use case: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action03
13:34:19 <jacco> show limitation of tags, using tags across modalities or applications
13:35:05 <jacco> show first efforts to bring more structure to tagging, show advantages and common approaches
13:36:21 <jacco> show how it is possible to use SW technology to use, for example picasa tags in flickr, or from blogging app to another
13:36:45 <jacco> thomas: I agree
13:37:18 <jacco> other issues are navigation between tags, clustering  etc
13:38:09 <jacco> jacco: maybe reuse existing flickr2rdf converters etc
13:38:30 <jacco> make use case that works cross modality
13:39:10 <jacco> Next use case: News (http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action05)
13:39:42 <jacco> Raphael: I will work with people of the newsml/iptc community
13:41:06 <jacco> use case should show what you can do more if you convert all current vocabs. to RDF and link to other material already out there
13:41:25 <jacco> including: cross modality search on news images and text
13:42:03 <jacco> recognize different version of the same story
13:42:43 <jacco> make explicit links among different versions
13:43:02 <jacco> patrizia: should speach be added?
13:43:44 <jacco> reuse exisiting metdatda, convert to RDF
13:45:43 <jacco> Massimo (by SMS): audio is not only music
13:45:47 <jacco> all agree
13:46:26 <Jeff> who is here?
13:46:30 <raphael> zakim, who is here
13:46:30 <Zakim> raphael, you need to end that query with '?'
13:46:33 <raphael> zakim, who is here?
13:46:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see meeting_room, Vassilis, Jeff_Pan
13:46:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see chalaschek, rellero_, alessio, IoannisPratikakis, anadiotis, Vassilis, Jeff, jacco, giovannit, christian, vasileios, RRSAgent, Zakim, raphael, Massimo, pasquale
13:47:50 <jacco> Raphael pus Massimo's use case sent yesterday on the beamer
13:47:58 <jacco> s/pus/puts
13:48:28 <jacco> raphael: is this a representation problem, massimo?
13:49:23 <Massimo> i was only thinking of use cases
13:49:50 <Massimo> but yes, you're right raphael, it could be
13:52:25 <Jeff> BTW, do we have any use cases on videos?
13:53:52 <jacco> Massimo, could you write this up in terms of a concrete use case?  For example one on e-science, or on image transforms on personal photos
13:54:46 <jacco> news domain and unstructured tagging deal with video, maybe the music use case also
13:56:37 <Massimo> ok we'll think about it
13:56:39 <jacco> Raphael: lets talk about deadlines
13:57:52 <jacco> We have a teleconf on the 20th of July, so submit half a page description on the 19th of July, so we can disccus 5 use cases during the teleconf
13:58:24 <Thomas> Thomas has joined #mmsem
13:58:32 <jacco> Thomas will be on vacation but will contact George before
14:01:17 <jacco> Skip 3, 16 august teleconf because of vacations
14:01:44 <jacco> proposal: next teleconf on 31 august?
14:01:52 <jacco> resolved
14:02:20 <Jeff> next teleconfs: 20 July and 31 August?
14:02:22 <Vassilis> have we decided who is goin to do be the editor of this deliverable?
14:02:52 <jacco> no, we will do the individual use cases first
14:03:35 <jacco> raphael: we do not yet have talked about the structure of the document
14:04:40 <Jeff> q+
14:05:07 <jacco> ack jeff
14:05:32 <jacco> jeff: agrees with Vassilis, can we use the time left to look ahead?
14:06:20 <jacco> raphael: we will all be contributors to the XG notes, but we also need editors
14:06:52 <jacco> Vassilis volunteers to be one of the editors
14:07:56 <jacco> obections to Vassilis being an editor?
14:08:01 <jacco> Resolved
14:08:09 <jacco> Any more voluteers?
14:08:26 <jacco> No, want to see what the documents are going to look like
14:08:49 <jacco> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:08:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html jacco
14:09:04 <jacco> Topic: next f2f
14:10:01 <jacco> proposal: co-locate with next ISWC conference in November, Athens, Georgia
14:10:44 <jacco> Vasilis: There are many other competing events like ruleml, rif, owl2
14:10:51 <Jeff> q+
14:11:01 <jacco> s/Vasilis/Vassilis
14:11:33 <jacco> Other posibility is to co-locate with SAMT in Athens, Greece
14:12:00 <jacco> But this will be the second f2f in Europe
14:12:52 <Massimo> could be thougth the possibility of a videocon too ?
14:13:59 <jacco> 5 november is tutorials only
14:14:19 <raphael> http://iswc2006.semanticweb.org/program/dates.htm
14:14:28 <rellero_> could be a good idea make next f2f in Venice
14:14:34 <anadiotis> giovanni : having the f2f coincide with ISWC workshops/demos may not be a good idea, since people in the XG will attend the workshops/. Maybe before ISWC?
14:18:26 <jacco> action: Raphael and Jeff to contact US partners and propose f2f date and location
14:18:54 <yannis> yannis has joined #mmsem
14:19:21 <jacco> Vassilis: Workshop in Athens on cultural domain, presence from this XG will be appreciated
14:20:02 <jacco> action: Vassilis to write proposal on the agenda for 20 jult teleconf
14:20:11 <jacco> any other business?
14:21:23 <jacco> Jeff: we skipt discussing future deliverables, if any has an idea or volunteers to be an editor, send mail to public mailing list
14:21:47 <jacco> Chairs close the meeting and thank all particpants
14:21:53 <Massimo> hi all and thank you!
14:22:19 <Zakim> -Jeff_Pan
14:22:20 <Zakim> -Vassilis
14:22:21 <Zakim> INC_MMSEM(F2F)3:00AM has ended
14:22:22 <jacco> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:22:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html jacco
14:22:23 <Zakim> Attendees were meeting_room, Vassilis, Jeff_Pan, massimo
14:22:24 <rellero_> see you soon
14:22:40 <pasquale> bye all
14:22:41 <rellero_> bye
14:22:49 <alessio> see you next time :)
14:23:19 <alessio> alessio has left #mmsem
14:48:30 <jacco> scribe: jacco
14:48:50 <jacco> regrets: SusanneBoll
14:48:56 <jacco> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:48:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html jacco
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