IRC log of ws-policy on 2006-06-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:48:12 [RRSAgent]
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15:48:12 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/06/28-ws-policy-irc
15:50:58 [fsasaki]
meeting: WS Policy Working Group
15:51:47 [fsasaki]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Jun/0007.html
15:52:08 [paulc]
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15:52:21 [fsasaki]
scribe: Felix
15:52:26 [fsasaki]
scribeNick: fsasaki
15:52:32 [cferris]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Jun/0007.html
15:53:09 [paulc]
chair: paulc
15:54:24 [fsasaki]
agenda+ Roll call and selection of secretary
15:54:33 [fsasaki]
agenda+ Introduction of chairs, team contacts and participants
15:54:40 [fsasaki]
agenda+ Administrative
15:54:48 [fsasaki]
agenda+ WG distributed meeting schedule
15:54:56 [fsasaki]
agenda+ WG F2F meeting schedule
15:55:04 [fsasaki]
agenda+ Submitting WS-Policy Issues
15:55:13 [fsasaki]
agenda+ WS-Policy WG F2F Agenda
15:55:22 [fsasaki]
agenda+ Any other business
15:55:55 [asir]
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15:57:50 [Zakim]
WS_WSPolic()12:00AM has now started
15:57:57 [Zakim]
+??P19
15:58:01 [Zakim]
+Felix
15:58:29 [Zakim]
+Paul_Cotton
15:58:56 [Zakim]
+Mark_Little
15:59:07 [Zakim]
+Chris_Ferris
15:59:41 [Zakim]
+??P1
16:00:56 [plh]
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16:01:00 [Zakim]
+ +1.917.647.aaaa
16:01:11 [prasad]
prasad has joined #ws-policy
16:01:21 [Zakim]
+Abbie_Barbir
16:01:47 [maryann]
maryann has joined #ws-policy
16:02:22 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:02:32 [Zakim]
+ +1.508.628.aabb
16:02:58 [Dan]
Dan has joined #ws-policy
16:03:25 [Zakim]
+Monica_Martin
16:04:01 [toufic]
toufic has joined #ws-policy
16:04:12 [plh]
zakim, call plh-work
16:04:13 [Zakim]
ok, plh; the call is being made
16:04:14 [Zakim]
+Plh
16:04:16 [Zakim]
+??P6
16:04:27 [Zakim]
+RSalz
16:04:52 [plh]
zakim, who's making noise?
16:04:54 [Zakim]
+Umit_Yalcinalp
16:05:03 [Zakim]
plh, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Paul_Cotton (48%), Sanka (9%), ??P6 (4%), Chris_Ferris (11%), Ashok (55%), Plh (18%)
16:05:44 [plh]
rrsagent, where am I?
16:05:44 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2006/06/28-ws-policy-irc#T16-05-44
16:06:47 [fsasaki]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Jun/0007.html
16:06:55 [plh]
plh has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Jun/0007.html
16:07:04 [cferris]
zakim, +RSalz is Maryann
16:07:04 [Zakim]
sorry, cferris, I do not recognize a party named '+RSalz'
16:07:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/06/28-ws-policy-minutes.html plh
16:07:51 [m2]
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16:07:55 [Zakim]
+??P9
16:08:15 [Zakim]
+ +1.512.289.aacc
16:08:24 [fsasaki]
pc: questions about the agenda?
16:08:40 [abbie]
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16:08:45 [fsasaki]
.. as for co-charing: one of us will do an entire meeting
16:08:54 [Zakim]
+DOrchard
16:09:10 [fsasaki]
.. if you have questions on our charing etc., please tell us
16:09:21 [fsasaki]
.. today, Chris will do the role call
16:09:28 [fsasaki]
.. later I take over
16:09:38 [fsasaki]
.. Chris, any comments?
16:09:43 [dorchard]
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16:09:56 [fsasaki]
Chris: Paul and I are still sorting through how to do this
16:10:03 [fsasaki]
zakim, take up agendum 1
16:10:04 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Roll call and selection of secretary" taken up [from fsasaki]
16:10:19 [fsasaki]
Abbie here
16:10:29 [ruchith]
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16:10:37 [fsasaki]
Ruchith Fernando here
16:10:56 [fsasaki]
pc: regrets from Frederik
16:11:03 [fsasaki]
Maryann Hondo is here
16:11:10 [fsasaki]
Philippe Le Hegaret here
16:11:15 [fsasaki]
Mark Little here
16:11:22 [fsasaki]
Ashok Malhotra here
16:11:28 [fsasaki]
Monica Martin here
16:11:34 [fsasaki]
Jeff Mischkinsky here
16:11:47 [fsasaki]
Anthony Nadalin here
16:11:58 [fsasaki]
David Orchard here
16:12:20 [fsasaki]
Daniel Roth here
16:12:27 [fsasaki]
Sanka Samaranayake here
16:12:36 [fsasaki]
Felix Sasaki here
16:12:37 [abbie1]
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16:12:51 [fsasaki]
Yakov Sverdlov here
16:12:58 [fsasaki]
Asir Vedamuthu here
16:13:08 [fsasaki]
Umit Yalcinalp here
16:13:13 [uyalcina]
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16:13:16 [fsasaki]
Prasad Yendluri here
16:13:26 [fsasaki]
Chris: anybody who was not mentioned?
16:13:36 [fsasaki]
.. on this call?
16:13:54 [fsasaki]
.. somebody joined after the role?
16:13:57 [toufic]
is this a transcript of the official roll call?
16:14:04 [fsasaki]
zakim, take up agendum 2
16:14:04 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Introduction of chairs, team contacts and participants" taken up [from fsasaki]
16:14:16 [Zakim]
+Seamus
16:14:26 [cferris]
I will be posting the attendance role presently
16:14:38 [fsasaki]
pc: we should introduce each other at the f2f meetings
16:14:58 [toufic]
ok thanks. i don't see my name here on the list, even though I was actually called
16:15:06 [Zakim]
+ +1.719.640.aadd
16:15:08 [fsasaki]
zakim, take up agendum 3
16:15:08 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Administrative" taken up [from fsasaki]
16:15:37 [fsasaki]
pc: 3 a) Public WG home page
16:15:49 [fsasaki]
.. 3 b)Administrative WG home page
16:15:54 [toufic]
perfect thanks. just didn't want to go through the corrections later :)
16:16:09 [fsasaki]
.. plh, make sure that all are subscribed
16:16:14 [fsasaki]
plh: making it right now
16:16:24 [Zakim]
-Mark_Little
16:16:29 [fsasaki]
pc: most of the mail will be on the public list
16:16:37 [fsasaki]
.. 3 c): WG Call for Participation
16:16:44 [fsasaki]
.. see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-members/2006AprJun/0056.html
16:16:55 [fsasaki]
.. good participation rate for this WG
16:17:11 [fsasaki]
.. 3 d): participants: http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=39293&public=1
16:17:25 [fsasaki]
.. 3 e)public list
16:17:41 [fsasaki]
.. and member only list
16:17:51 [fsasaki]
.. 3 f) : editor's list
16:18:06 [fsasaki]
.. for each CVS commit, a mail will be sent automatically to this list
16:18:26 [fsasaki]
.. 3 g): WG tools
16:18:38 [fsasaki]
.. (IRC, Zakim, action item and issue tracking, etc.)
16:19:04 [fsasaki]
.. we will take care of action items and issue tracking very clearly
16:19:42 [fsasaki]
.. for each agenda, where should be a list of scribes
16:20:10 [fsasaki]
.. if you are secretary, your name goes to the bottom of the list
16:20:23 [fsasaki]
.. Chris?
16:20:44 [fsasaki]
Chris: I am working with IRC etc., it's been a while
16:21:21 [fsasaki]
pc: 3g)Management and enforcement of good standing
16:21:30 [fsasaki]
.. we track good standing at the company level
16:21:57 [fsasaki]
Chris: I have set up a tracking page, based on the WS addressing tracking page
16:22:09 [fsasaki]
pc: we encourage you to maintain good standing
16:22:11 [prasad]
http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/groups.html#good-standing ?
16:22:19 [fsasaki]
.. the URI will come later
16:22:53 [fsasaki]
.. chris, you generate the random scribe list of participants for the next agenda?
16:22:56 [fsasaki]
Chris: yes
16:23:09 [fsasaki]
action: Chris to generate the random scribe list of participants for the next agenda
16:23:21 [cferris]
http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/policy/participation/attendance.html
16:23:53 [fsasaki]
Chris: currently this lists the attendences who were in the group until yesterday
16:24:04 [cferris]
I just updated it
16:24:09 [cferris]
mis-typed password
16:24:40 [fsasaki]
pc: other administrative items?
16:24:53 [fsasaki]
.. I will hand these administrative items offline with new participants
16:24:59 [fsasaki]
zakim, take up agendum 4
16:24:59 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "WG distributed meeting schedule" taken up [from fsasaki]
16:25:15 [fsasaki]
pc: a) Traditional W3C August break
16:25:22 [fsasaki]
.. we propose not to have a break
16:25:33 [fsasaki]
.. with a break, we could not meet our schedule
16:25:49 [fsasaki]
.. any comments?
16:26:20 [fsasaki]
.. 4 b) Distributed meeting time slot, Wed 12noon-2pm ET
16:26:46 [fsasaki]
.. chris and I took and intersection of our personal calendars
16:26:58 [fsasaki]
.. and looked into other groups in various organizations
16:27:07 [fsasaki]
.. so we came up with this slot
16:27:25 [fsasaki]
.. we would like to propose this slot for our distributed meetings
16:27:26 [cferris]
me suggests that anyone who can't read th attendance should reload the page
16:27:41 [fsasaki]
Monika: the BEPL meeting has a conflict
16:27:55 [fsasaki]
???: there is another conflict
16:28:10 [plh]
s/conflict/conflict 8am-10am Pacific/
16:28:10 [prasad]
s/???/Prasad/
16:28:24 [fsasaki]
Daveo: I am sympathetic with the co-chairs
16:29:02 [fsasaki]
pc: so that would be 11-1 ET?
16:29:20 [fsasaki]
.. others had problems as well
16:29:29 [fsasaki]
.. so 1 PM ET would be o.k.?
16:29:53 [fsasaki]
Prasad: would be a conflict for me
16:30:01 [fsasaki]
David: for me as well
16:30:09 [m2]
WS-BPEL 8-10 a.m. each Wednesday, OASIS
16:30:11 [fsasaki]
Jeff: what time do we talk about now?
16:30:34 [fsasaki]
Pc: to have this call 1 pm - 3 pm ET
16:30:38 [prasad]
sorry that was no me again. 1pm East works for me
16:30:45 [fsasaki]
.. but that would be difficult for Ashok
16:30:48 [dorchard]
I have a meeting at 2pm-3pm ET
16:31:13 [m2]
Could we consider a 30-minute delay to compromise?
16:32:11 [fsasaki]
pc: we have to tackle many time zones
16:32:53 [fsasaki]
.. that is very difficult
16:33:07 [fsasaki]
.. I liked to stay with the current time for this call and maybe the next meeting
16:33:13 [fsasaki]
.. would that be o.k.?
16:33:41 [fsasaki]
.. the chairs will take regular meeting conflicts into account
16:33:53 [fsasaki]
.. with respect to the agenda and attendance
16:34:10 [fsasaki]
.. could we use the current slot until the end of August?
16:34:14 [Zakim]
-Ashok
16:34:36 [fsasaki]
.. no objection
16:34:41 [fsasaki]
.. 4 c) Future distributed meetings
16:35:40 [fsasaki]
.. everybody o.k. with the current schedule?
16:35:51 [fsasaki]
... David, you sent the first regrets
16:36:26 [fsasaki]
.. if we know that somebody cannot make a meeting, we will adjust the agenda
16:36:39 [fsasaki]
.. btw, such mails should go to the administrative list
16:36:47 [fsasaki]
Chris: if you send regrets
16:36:58 [fsasaki]
.. please send them also after the meeting
16:37:10 [fsasaki]
.. esp. for good standing tracking it is useful
16:37:21 [fsasaki]
pc: that is useful for companies with a single representative
16:37:41 [uyalcina]
q
16:37:46 [prasad]
q+
16:37:48 [uyalcina]
q
16:38:02 [dorchard]
q
16:38:36 [fsasaki]
Umit: Do we need to have a meeting next week?
16:38:58 [fsasaki]
.. many people take extended vacations
16:39:03 [fsasaki]
pc: not a bad suggestion
16:39:08 [maryann]
works for me
16:39:32 [plh]
q?
16:39:34 [fsasaki]
pc: any objection against cancelling next weeks meeting
16:39:53 [fsasaki]
.. no objection
16:40:00 [fsasaki]
q?
16:40:07 [plh]
ack prasad
16:40:38 [fsasaki]
Prasad asks about good standing
16:40:49 [fsasaki]
Chris: sometimes where are legimate reasons
16:40:53 [paulc]
paulc
16:40:53 [fsasaki]
.. like being on the plane
16:41:06 [fsasaki]
.. so to know why you did not attend a meeting is helpful
16:41:23 [fsasaki]
pc: if we have to declare someone into bad standing we have to go the AC
16:41:56 [fsasaki]
.. if e.g. there as a death in the family, we would not count that for attendance tracking
16:42:17 [fsasaki]
zakim, take up agendum 5
16:42:17 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "WG F2F meeting schedule" taken up [from fsasaki]
16:42:25 [fsasaki]
pc: a) WS-Policy WG F2F, Austin, TX Tue-Thu Jul 11-13 (hosted by IBM)
16:42:36 [fsasaki]
.. local info is at http://www.w3.org/2006/07/ws-policy-f2f-logistics.html
16:43:06 [fsasaki]
.. I sent a mail this morning about registration, some of you followed up
16:43:22 [fsasaki]
pc: anyone who is on the call:
16:43:22 [ipbabble]
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16:43:31 [fsasaki]
.. pleaese register your attendence or regrets
16:44:06 [fsasaki]
.. we will have a remote participation facility
16:44:38 [fsasaki]
.. you will get participation materials etc. before the meeting
16:44:50 [fsasaki]
Tony: we have the best room which is possible reserved
16:45:26 [fsasaki]
pc: I will push on some people in this week
16:45:41 [fsasaki]
plh: for remote participants - do we want to use the W3C bridge?
16:45:52 [fsasaki]
pc: I would say yes
16:46:04 [fsasaki]
action: plh to reserve the W3C bridge for the July f2f
16:46:35 [fsasaki]
plh: using zakim is easy since we can track participation etc.
16:46:59 [fsasaki]
pc: we appreciate the offer for a different bridge, but would like to rely on the W3C bridge
16:47:04 [Zakim]
- +1.512.289.aacc
16:47:07 [fsasaki]
plh: a minor question:
16:47:20 [fsasaki]
.. will we have breakfirst in the room?
16:47:27 [fsasaki]
.. at 8:30 in the morning
16:48:07 [fsasaki]
pc: we need to find out if there is breakfirst
16:48:25 [fsasaki]
plh: as for hotels: if you have a problem with finding one, please let me know
16:48:46 [fsasaki]
action: Chris to tackle with Tony and Melita the breakfirst and hotel questions
16:49:25 [fsasaki]
pc: Felix and I are staying at the same hotel, it is also listed in the logistics
16:49:39 [fsasaki]
.. are you o.k. with what is in the logistics page, plh?
16:49:41 [fsasaki]
Plh: yes
16:50:04 [fsasaki]
.. 5 b) WS-Policy WG F2F, Tue-Thu Sep 12-14
16:50:22 [m2]
There is also a F2F for WS-BPEL those three days.
16:50:56 [Zakim]
+??P7
16:51:39 [fsasaki]
pc: it is not possible to do the week before or the week after
16:51:51 [fsasaki]
.. the week before has labour day, the week after was hard to host
16:52:15 [fsasaki]
some offer to host the week after
16:52:23 [fsasaki]
chris: I would have a conflict in the week after
16:52:50 [fsasaki]
pc: if there is a different offer for the week after, we have to find a majority
16:53:02 [uyalcina]
I have a conflict the week of f2f. The following week it would be fine.
16:53:05 [fsasaki]
.. but it would help to see who has a preference for which week
16:53:09 [dorchard]
I prefer MSFT's offer and a conflict the week after
16:53:38 [fsasaki]
pc: the November f2f question will also be discussed during the July f2f
16:53:58 [fsasaki]
.. item 5 c)
16:54:18 [fsasaki]
.. 5 d) WS-Policy WG F2F, Jan 2007
16:54:34 [fsasaki]
.. W3C is considering hosting a meeting in early 2007
16:54:42 [fsasaki]
.. I sent a mail to Steve Bratt on this
16:54:53 [cferris]
just to clarify my conflict is for 9/13-9/18
16:54:56 [fsasaki]
s/meeting/meeting of several groups/
16:55:15 [fsasaki]
plh: the dates might be later than January
16:55:33 [fsasaki]
pc: the note from Steve said early 2007
16:55:48 [fsasaki]
plh: Maybe Steve does not think of "only" January
16:56:00 [fsasaki]
pc: I will give Steve my input on the timing
16:56:06 [cferris]
is this planned on being hosted in Cambridge?
16:56:48 [fsasaki]
pc: if we meet in November, our target would be late in January
16:58:08 [fsasaki]
pc: please send the issues to the public list
16:59:04 [fsasaki]
.. I will write a thread on the current proposal
16:59:12 [fsasaki]
.. any comments?
16:59:25 [fsasaki]
action: Paul to start the thread on the current policy proposal
17:00:25 [fsasaki]
pc: we will have introduction of particiaptions
17:00:36 [fsasaki]
.. who are you, and what interests you / your company in policy
17:00:39 [cgi-irc]
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17:01:27 [fsasaki]
paul lists the agenda proposal listed at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Jun/0007.html (item 7)
17:01:51 [fsasaki]
pc: we will get Working drafts very fast after the first f2f meeting
17:01:59 [fsasaki]
.. this is in our charter
17:02:09 [fsasaki]
Asir: one suggestion
17:02:29 [fsasaki]
.. there was a workshop on policy
17:02:45 [fsasaki]
.. I would like to add a discussion of that to the agenda
17:03:01 [fsasaki]
pc: is it o.k. to use documents which were used at the workshop
17:03:16 [Fabian]
I joined 10 mins ago, please make sure you log me as participating. Fabian Ritzmann.
17:03:19 [Zakim]
-Umit_Yalcinalp
17:03:21 [fsasaki]
action: Asir to gather documents from the workshop on policy before the July f2f
17:03:43 [fsasaki]
plh: one question: we have to name editors
17:03:50 [fsasaki]
.. when will we do that?
17:04:00 [fsasaki]
pc: I put that as a subitem under publication plan
17:04:12 [fsasaki]
.. the chairs are responsible to built up an editorial team
17:04:22 [Zakim]
+Umit_Yalcinalp
17:04:27 [fsasaki]
.. people who are interested in editorial work, please send a note to Chris and I
17:04:43 [fsasaki]
???: what tools do we use? XML based editing?
17:04:45 [fsasaki]
pc: yes
17:04:54 [fsasaki]
.. on the working group HP
17:05:10 [fsasaki]
.. the public page, there is a link to the CVS area
17:05:23 [fsasaki]
.. plh has built an inital draft already and converted them
17:05:41 [fsasaki]
.. but plh will not be a long term editor?
17:05:48 [Zakim]
+m2
17:05:50 [Zakim]
-Monica_Martin
17:06:44 [fsasaki]
pc: we want more than one editor, and less than 10
17:06:57 [Zakim]
-unknown
17:07:25 [fsasaki]
zakim, take up agendum 8
17:07:25 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "Any other business" taken up [from fsasaki]
17:07:57 [fsasaki]
??? just joined the call
17:08:20 [plh]
William Henry
17:08:44 [fsasaki]
pc: if you joined the call later, please tell your name as we switch to a new topic
17:08:49 [fsasaki]
s/???/William Henry/
17:09:41 [fsasaki]
pc: if you have problems with IRC, please send me a note, I will help you out
17:09:43 [uyalcina]
may I suggest the chairs to test the plus to be in the queue?
17:09:55 [fsasaki]
pc: please learn how to use IRC
17:09:59 [cferris]
q+
17:10:01 [cferris]
q-
17:10:02 [uyalcina]
webclient is essential to some of us
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q+ me
17:10:32 [web-test]
worky
17:10:38 [fsasaki]
Fabian Ritzmann: I joined between item 4 and 5
17:10:43 [ipbabble]
okay I'm getting it
17:10:47 [Fabian]
ACK
17:10:56 [plh]
ack web-test
17:11:08 [uyalcina]
q
17:11:19 [plh]
what client are you using Umit?
17:11:23 [Zakim]
-DOrchard
17:11:26 [plh]
IE6?
17:11:34 [Zakim]
-Prasad
17:11:34 [uyalcina]
IE6
17:11:35 [Zakim]
-Seamus
17:11:37 [Zakim]
-Abbie_Barbir
17:11:37 [Zakim]
-Chris_Ferris
17:11:38 [Zakim]
- +1.719.640.aadd
17:11:38 [Zakim]
-m2
17:11:40 [Zakim]
-Asir
17:11:41 [Zakim]
-Plh
17:11:43 [Zakim]
-Paul_Cotton
17:11:45 [Zakim]
-??P7
17:11:46 [Zakim]
-Maryann
17:11:47 [Zakim]
-Umit_Yalcinalp
17:11:49 [Zakim]
-Sanka
17:11:53 [Zakim]
-??P9
17:12:16 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/06/28-ws-policy-minutes.html fsasaki
17:12:32 [Zakim]
-??P6
17:12:46 [sanka]
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18:05:00 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, Felix, in WS_WSPolic()12:00AM
18:05:01 [Zakim]
WS_WSPolic()12:00AM has ended
18:05:03 [Zakim]
Attendees were Felix, Paul_Cotton, Mark_Little, Ashok, Chris_Ferris, Asir, Abbie_Barbir, Sanka, Monica_Martin, unknown, Plh, Prasad, Umit_Yalcinalp, +1.512.289.aacc, Maryann,
18:05:06 [Zakim]
... DOrchard, Seamus, +1.719.640.aadd, m2
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q+ me
18:35:48 [web-test]
echo
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q+ me
18:36:19 [web-test]
echo
18:38:20 [web-test]
web-test has joined #ws-policy
18:38:27 [web-test]
echo
18:38:31 [web-test]
q+ me
18:38:44 [web-test]
hum, worky as well
18:38:44 [web-test]
hum, worky as well
18:39:29 [plh]
zakim, bye
18:39:29 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ws-policy
18:39:33 [plh]
rrsagent, bye
18:39:33 [RRSAgent]
I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/28-ws-policy-actions.rdf :
18:39:33 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Chris to generate the random scribe list of participants for the next agenda [1]
18:39:33 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/28-ws-policy-irc#T16-23-09
18:39:33 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: plh to reserve the W3C bridge for the July f2f [2]
18:39:33 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/28-ws-policy-irc#T16-46-04
18:39:33 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Chris to tackle with Tony and Melita the breakfirst and hotel questions [3]
18:39:33 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/28-ws-policy-irc#T16-48-46
18:39:33 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Paul to start the thread on the current policy proposal [4]
18:39:33 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/28-ws-policy-irc#T16-59-25
18:39:33 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Asir to gather documents from the workshop on policy before the July f2f [5]
18:39:33 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/28-ws-policy-irc#T17-03-21