IRC log of rif on 2006-06-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:45:14 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rif
14:45:14 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:45:19 [ChrisW]
zakim, this will be rif
14:45:19 [Zakim]
ok, ChrisW; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes
14:47:59 [AlexKozlenkov]
AlexKozlenkov has joined #rif
14:51:09 [patranja]
patranja has joined #rif
14:54:12 [sandro]
sandro has joined #rif
14:54:42 [sandro]
zakim, what is the code?
14:54:42 [Zakim]
the conference code is 74394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), sandro
14:54:49 [csma]
csma has joined #rif
14:54:53 [FrankMcCabe]
FrankMcCabe has joined #rif
14:54:54 [sandro]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:54:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate sandro
14:55:01 [sandro]
rrsagent, make record public
14:55:35 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
14:55:42 [Zakim]
14:55:46 [AlexKozlenkov]
AlexKozlenkov has joined #rif
14:55:48 [Zakim]
14:55:51 [Zakim]
14:55:53 [Zakim]
14:55:59 [sandro]
zakim, who is here?
14:55:59 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P4, Sandro
14:56:00 [Zakim]
On IRC I see AlexKozlenkov, FrankMcCabe, csma, sandro, PaulaP, RRSAgent, Zakim, Francois, ChrisW, Harold, Keep
14:56:16 [Francois]
??P4 is me.
14:56:35 [Francois]
zakim, ??P4 is me.
14:56:35 [Zakim]
+Francois; got it
14:56:38 [Zakim]
14:56:48 [ChrisW]
zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me
14:56:48 [Zakim]
+ChrisW; got it
14:56:52 [Donald_Chapin]
Donald_Chapin has joined #rif
14:57:15 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has joined #rif
14:58:27 [Zakim]
14:58:54 [Zakim]
14:59:14 [Zakim]
14:59:19 [Harold]
zakim, [NRCC] is me
14:59:19 [Zakim]
+Harold; got it
14:59:20 [pfps]
pfps has joined #rif
14:59:37 [ChrisW]
scribenick: Francois
14:59:47 [Donald_Chapin]
zakim, mute me
14:59:47 [Zakim]
sorry, Donald_Chapin, I do not see a party named 'Donald_Chapin'
14:59:49 [Zakim]
14:59:58 [FrankMcCabe]
zakim, fujitsu is me
14:59:58 [Zakim]
+FrankMcCabe; got it
15:00:00 [Francois]
zakim, please mute me.
15:00:00 [Zakim]
Francois should now be muted
15:00:06 [DaveReynolds]
DaveReynolds has joined #rif
15:00:13 [Deborah_Nichols]
Deborah_Nichols has joined #rif
15:00:14 [Donald_Chapin]
zakim, mute me
15:00:14 [Zakim]
sorry, Donald_Chapin, I do not see a party named 'Donald_Chapin'
15:00:18 [Zakim]
15:00:23 [sandro]
zakim, who is talking?
15:00:30 [pfps]
zakim, ??P22 is me
15:00:30 [Zakim]
+pfps; got it
15:00:35 [Zakim]
sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Harold (30%), Sandro (15%), ??P22 (70%)
15:00:46 [Zakim]
15:00:49 [Zakim]
15:00:52 [AlexKozlenkov]
zakim ??25 is me
15:00:53 [sandro]
Chair: ChrisW
15:00:54 [Zakim]
15:01:02 [AlexKozlenkov]
zakim mute me
15:01:07 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, IPCaller is me
15:01:07 [Zakim]
+AxelPolleres; got it
15:01:12 [AlexKozlenkov]
zakim, mute me
15:01:12 [Zakim]
sorry, AlexKozlenkov, I do not see a party named 'AlexKozlenkov'
15:01:13 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, mute me
15:01:13 [Zakim]
AxelPolleres should now be muted
15:01:17 [Zakim]
15:01:19 [Donald_Chapin]
zakim, mute me
15:01:19 [Zakim]
sorry, Donald_Chapin, I do not see a party named 'Donald_Chapin'
15:01:20 [StellaMitchell]
StellaMitchell has joined #rif
15:01:22 [Harold]
Chris, my phone is muted.
15:01:23 [Zakim]
15:01:25 [Zakim]
+Dave_Reynolds (was ??P27)
15:01:26 [Zakim]
15:01:28 [LeoraMorgenstern]
LeoraMorgenstern has joined #rif
15:01:36 [Donald_Chapin]
zaqkim, ipcaller is me
15:01:38 [csma]
zakim, ??P26 is me
15:01:38 [Zakim]
+csma; got it
15:01:41 [AlexKozlenkov]
zakim ??P25 is me
15:01:48 [Zakim]
15:01:57 [pfps]
zakim, ??P22 is me
15:01:57 [Zakim]
+pfps; got it
15:02:00 [JosDeRoo]
JosDeRoo has joined #rif
15:02:04 [Donald_Chapin]
zakim, mute me
15:02:04 [Zakim]
sorry, Donald_Chapin, I do not see a party named 'Donald_Chapin'
15:02:12 [sandro]
Regrets: AllenGinsberg, ElisaKendall, JosDeBruijn, MinsuJang, HassanAitKaci, GaryHallmark, EdwardBarkmeyer
15:02:13 [csma]
zakim, mute me
15:02:13 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
15:02:17 [sandro]
(from the Wiki)
15:02:19 [JeffP]
JeffP has joined #rif
15:02:24 [AlexKozlenkov]
zakim ??P25 is me??P25 is me
15:02:26 [csma]
15:02:27 [Zakim]
15:02:27 [Donald_Chapin]
zakim ipcaller is me
15:02:35 [johnhall]
johnhall has joined #rif
15:02:36 [Zakim]
15:02:37 [AlexKozlenkov]
zakim, ??P25 is me
15:02:38 [Zakim]
+AlexKozlenkov; got it
15:02:44 [Donald_Chapin]
zakim, ipcaller is me
15:02:44 [Zakim]
sorry, Donald_Chapin, I do not recognize a party named 'ipcaller'
15:02:44 [AlexKozlenkov]
zakim, mute me
15:02:45 [LeoraMorgenstern]
zakim, please mute me
15:02:45 [Zakim]
AlexKozlenkov should now be muted
15:02:46 [Zakim]
Leora_Morgenstern should now be muted
15:02:56 [Francois]
Telecon starts. Next telecon next week.
15:03:18 [EvanWallace]
EvanWallace has joined #rif
15:03:21 [Francois]
Chris: in 2 weeks telecon is during hollidays in US. Should we have telecon that week or not?
15:03:52 [StellaMitchell]
zakim, [ibm] is StellaMitchell
15:03:52 [Zakim]
+StellaMitchell; got it
15:03:53 [Zakim]
15:03:59 [sandro]
RRSAgent, make minutes
15:03:59 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate sandro
15:04:12 [Francois]
Chris: Schedule of f2f is to release use cases. We should not decide on this when too many members of WG absent.
15:04:18 [Zakim]
15:04:41 [Zakim]
15:04:44 [Francois]
Chris: People not there at July 4 telecon should express by FRiday June 30th reservations.
15:05:03 [Francois]
Chris: depending on reservations or not, we'll have a telecon of July 4th.
15:05:17 [sandro]
zakim, who is talking?
15:05:27 [pfps]
zakim, mute me
15:05:27 [Zakim]
pfps should now be muted
15:05:28 [Zakim]
sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Harold (9%), Sandro (44%), ChrisW (25%), ??P19 (79%)
15:05:31 [Francois]
Scribe cannot hear any longer!!!!
15:05:32 [csma]
zakim, who is speaking?
15:05:37 [sandro]
zakim, drop P19
15:05:37 [Zakim]
sorry, sandro, I do not see a party named 'P19'
15:05:41 [sandro]
zakim, drop ??P19
15:05:41 [Zakim]
??P19 is being disconnected
15:05:42 [Zakim]
15:05:42 [Zakim]
csma, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Harold (0%), Sandro (18%), ChrisW (10%), ??P19 (90%)
15:05:48 [pfps]
zakim, unmute me
15:05:48 [Zakim]
pfps should no longer be muted
15:05:56 [Francois]
Scribes hears again!
15:06:35 [csma]
15:06:37 [Francois]
Chris: Ok with these plans concerning releasing use case documents?
15:06:47 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
15:06:47 [Zakim]
csma should no longer be muted
15:06:50 [ChrisW]
15:06:53 [Zakim]
15:06:57 [johnhall]
zakim, ipcaller is me
15:06:57 [Zakim]
+johnhall; got it
15:07:17 [Francois]
Christian de Sainte Marie: if you have reservations express them before release.
15:07:22 [DavidHirtle]
DavidHirtle has joined #rif
15:07:36 [Francois]
Chris: Objections to this plan.
15:07:36 [johnhall]
zakim, mute me
15:07:36 [Zakim]
johnhall should now be muted
15:07:58 [Francois]
John Hall: Will Chris send an email on this subject.
15:08:09 [ChrisW]
^john hall^evanW^
15:08:09 [Francois]
Thanks Christian!
15:08:30 [ChrisW]
15:08:30 [Zakim]
15:08:51 [sandro]
Present: AlexKozlenkov AxelPolleres ChrisW DaveReynolds DeborahNichols DonaldChapin EvanWallace Francois FrankMcCabe Harold JeffP JosDeRoo LeoraMorgenstern PaulaP Sandro StellaMitchell csma johnhall pfps DavidHirtle
15:08:51 [Francois]
Chris: Next item: May 23rd minutes accepted?
15:08:51 [MichaelKifer]
MichaelKifer has joined #rif
15:09:08 [Francois]
Christian: discussed during f2f.
15:09:16 [csma]
ACTION: Chris to send email requesting people who will not be able to attend July 4th to state any objection June 30th at the latest
15:09:26 [Francois]
Chris: Objections to May 23rd minutes?
15:09:29 [Zakim]
15:09:43 [ChrisW]
15:09:54 [Donald_Chapin]
zakim, IPcaller is me
15:09:54 [Zakim]
+Donald_Chapin; got it
15:10:01 [Francois]
Chris: Munites of last week. Objections?
15:10:09 [Francois]
Chris: those minutes accepted.
15:10:13 [Zakim]
15:10:28 [Francois]
Chris: Chairs work on minutes of last f2f. Will come in a couple of days.
15:10:29 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, IPcaller is me
15:10:29 [Zakim]
+MichaelKifer; got it
15:10:39 [AxelPolleres]
15:10:46 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
15:10:46 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should now be muted
15:10:47 [ChrisW]
15:10:52 [Donald_Chapin]
zakim, mute me
15:10:52 [Zakim]
Donald_Chapin should now be muted
15:10:56 [Francois]
Chris: Most of the actions are on the action tracker. Will be reviewed today.
15:11:15 [Francois]
Chris: New items for today's agenda? None.
15:11:27 [csma]
zakim, mute me
15:11:27 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
15:11:49 [Francois]
Chris: Update to f2f 3: very successful, look most requirements, all resolutions and decisions put in a single document.
15:12:06 [Francois]
Chris: Break between phase 1 and 2 helped.
15:12:09 [ChrisW]
15:12:13 [Francois]
Chris: f2f 4.
15:12:17 [Francois]
Who speaks?
15:12:18 [csma]
ack csma
15:12:21 [AxelPolleres]
remark on todays agenda, I miss:
15:12:23 [csma]
zakim, mute me
15:12:23 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
15:12:45 [Francois]
zakim, who is speaking?
15:12:52 [ChrisW]
pfps is speaking
15:12:57 [Zakim]
Francois, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (4%), ChrisW (9%), pfps (44%)
15:13:11 [Francois]
pfps: credit card and registrations for f2f 4 sre ok.
15:14:13 [Francois]
pfps: the document on f2f requirements had problem with access permission.
15:14:13 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
15:14:13 [Zakim]
csma should no longer be muted
15:14:43 [Zakim]
15:14:54 [Francois]
Christian: The access probblem on that page ssems to be for all.
15:15:03 [csma]
15:15:03 [ChrisW]
15:15:15 [Francois]
Sandro: will report on this problem to responsible team.
15:15:18 [LeoraMorgenstern]
Chris, I apologize; the pinging came from me. I thought that if my phone was muted, the pinging would be too. I guess not.
15:15:47 [Francois]
Chris: Active liaison with Oracle would be important.
15:16:06 [Francois]
Not Oracle, SPARQL.
15:16:08 [sandro]
15:16:15 [sandro]
s/with Oracle/with SPARQL/
15:16:17 [csma]
15:16:38 [csma]
ack csma
15:16:39 [Francois]
Chris: Liaisons.
15:16:43 [ChrisW]
ack csma
15:17:20 [ChrisW]
need a new liason for PRR, Paul Vincent has left RIF WG
15:17:21 [Francois]
Christian: New liaison to ... instead of Paul Vincent needed.
15:17:48 [ChrisW]
MISMO=Mortgage ....
15:17:51 [PaulaP]
15:17:52 [Francois]
Christian: Liaison with MISMO: Started a business rule interchange WG.
15:17:56 [ChrisW]
15:18:18 [ChrisW]
xBRL=Business Rules
15:18:20 [MalaMehrotra]
MalaMehrotra has joined #rif
15:18:51 [Francois]
Christian: ACCORD people not in RIF but they approached ILOG to ask whether working with thme on an XML format for exchanging business rules.
15:19:12 [Francois]
Christian: They have not joined RIF but should still be interested.
15:19:27 [PaulaP]
15:19:29 [Francois]
Christian: There are these 3 organisms but there should be many more.
15:19:47 [ChrisW]
15:19:59 [Francois]
Christian: Some of them are now interested in a rule layer on top of XML, OWL etc.
15:20:15 [Francois]
Christian: Could we have liaisons with at least some of them.
15:20:45 [johnhall]
ORIGO is the UK equivalent of ACORD. It is a W3C member and may also be interested.
15:21:32 [Francois]
Chris: Is looking for people acting as liaisons enough? Is more needed?
15:21:59 [Francois]
Chrisitna: Are there RIF members in contact with some such organizations?
15:22:14 [Francois]
15:22:14 [AxelPolleres]
I think ChrisW made a good point here: What is the "current style of liason"? Can we define this?
15:22:43 [Francois]
Chritian: First question: Who is in contact with such orgs?
15:23:06 [PaulaP]
15:23:15 [johnhall]
Said and I have several contacts - I will send an emial
15:23:25 [Francois]
Chris: Nobody seems to be in contact with such orgs.
15:23:34 [johnhall]
15:23:50 [Francois]
FRancois: I suggest ot work out a list of thes orgs.
15:24:10 [johnhall]
I'll do a summary of the orgs. and see which you are interested in
15:24:14 [PaulaP]
15:24:17 [Francois]
Christian: Do you register the action?
15:24:25 [csma]
ACTION: JohnH to send an email to chairs listing such contacts
15:24:41 [csma]
s/such/vertical orgs/
15:24:55 [Francois]
Move to Use Cases and Requirements.
15:25:29 [Francois]
Chris: Christian: Chrisitan producer-consumers continued.
15:26:21 [Francois]
Chris: Action to collect comments on new publications ... ?
15:26:22 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, unmute me
15:26:22 [Zakim]
AxelPolleres should no longer be muted
15:26:37 [Francois]
Chris: Axel no comments have been sent.
15:27:03 [Francois]
Axel: suggests to leave the subject for the moment.
15:27:40 [Francois]
Harold: it would be good to give a name to this new abstract use case.
15:27:54 [Francois]
Axel: it iis called alternative publication use case.
15:28:06 [PaulaP]
15:28:16 [Francois]
Harold: suggests 'inferring meta-data from explicit one'.
15:28:37 [Francois]
Chris: this action should be continued.
15:29:17 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, mute me
15:29:17 [Zakim]
AxelPolleres should now be muted
15:29:24 [Deborah_Nichols]
Allen sent regrets
15:29:49 [Francois]
Chris: David and Axel take an Action to integrate use cases?
15:29:55 [csma]
ACTION: david to work with Axel to integrate Publication UC
15:30:00 [Francois]
David: Ok.
15:30:39 [csma]
15:30:58 [AxelPolleres]
15:31:22 [Francois]
Chris: Christian has an action of treacking whether OMG ....
15:31:32 [DaveReynolds]
ack me
15:31:33 [Francois]
Christian: Forgotten, ie continued.
15:32:23 [Francois]
Chris: Dave had action add pointer to UC doc to requirement: continued.
15:32:37 [Francois]
Chris: Gary's action: continued.
15:32:41 [AxelPolleres]
Jos sent regrets!
15:32:54 [Francois]
Chris: Jos' action seems to be done.
15:33:07 [PaulaP]
I think this is done
15:33:17 [Francois]
Chris: Paula had action to cpture proposals for rewording on formal semantics: done.
15:33:20 [PaulaP]
15:33:29 [Francois]
15:33:41 [Harold]
Dave Reynolds, could we also refer to your SKOS and RDFS Publication concrete UC from the new abstract one?
15:33:45 [Francois]
Chris: PaulVincent's action?
15:34:02 [Francois]
Chris: Who replaces PaulVincent?
15:34:13 [Francois]
Christian: James Taylor (?)
15:34:35 [DaveReynolds]
Link for action 36:
15:34:54 [DaveReynolds]
Link for action 29:
15:35:29 [DaveReynolds]
Link for action updating Use Case 8:
15:35:43 [Francois]
Christian: About extensibility of the sem. markup. What about language that evolve. That what PaulVincent's question and he got an action to investigate that. I suggest to drop this action. If this is an issue. It will come back.
15:36:04 [Francois]
Chris: Other actions?
15:36:25 [Francois]
Chris: Action on Dave Reynold rephrase requ... : done.
15:36:45 [Francois]
Chris: Action on Sandro list requirements. Continued.
15:37:14 [Francois]
Sandro: in a lot of cases there are different wirdings.
15:37:26 [Francois]
15:37:32 [LeoraMorgenstern]
Sandro, I would like t ohelp
15:37:35 [LeoraMorgenstern]
though I'm not an editor
15:37:39 [Francois]
Sandro: Does someone want to collaborate with me on this?
15:37:51 [ChrisW]
actions 30, 31, 36 are closed
15:38:18 [Francois]
Chris: Moe to timing of next release of working draft.
15:38:45 [Francois]
Chris: at f2f we agreed on a deadline. Can we achieve the goal to work on new use cases.
15:39:05 [AlexKozlenkov]
zakim, unmute me
15:39:05 [Zakim]
AlexKozlenkov should no longer be muted
15:39:06 [Francois]
Chris: New use cases have been inco
15:39:07 [AlexKozlenkov]
15:39:14 [Francois]
15:39:46 [Francois]
Chris: two UC need review.
15:39:58 [Francois]
AlexKoz: We submitted a UC.
15:40:22 [Francois]
AlexKoz: It will be one of 3 UC. We are interviewing people.
15:40:36 [Francois]
AlexKooz: will become more generic.
15:40:49 [DaveReynolds]
15:40:58 [Francois]
15:41:15 [DaveReynolds]
15:41:23 [Francois]
Chris: the WG has a lot of specific UC. We try to abstract some commonalities.
15:41:39 [AlexKozlenkov]
zakim, mute me
15:41:39 [Zakim]
AlexKozlenkov should now be muted
15:41:44 [Francois]
Chris: New UC are not likely to make it into the next working draft.
15:42:18 [Francois]
Chris: For the next working draft, we had 3 candidate UC to be re-reviewed. One of them is the XML one. We missed the deadline.
15:42:34 [Francois]
Chris: had taken the action to have it ready by last Friday.
15:42:46 [Francois]
Sandro: it is ready, there was no feedback.
15:43:03 [Francois]
Chris: UC edited by Gary on XML.
15:43:14 [AxelPolleres]
Gary's use case:
15:43:53 [Francois]
Chris: this Friday was deadline for people to give comments. Next week deadline for editors to finalize these 3 UC. On July 4th we will have a vote to rekease the document as a working draft.
15:44:21 [Francois]
Christian: The UC is in thre initial format (abstract, status, etc.).
15:44:30 [DaveReynolds]
Yes, the proposal was to take the Narriative section from that page and use that as an abstract use case
15:44:30 [Francois]
15:44:56 [Francois]
Chris: DaveReynold. You had a change ot look at this UC?
15:45:16 [DaveReynolds]
15:45:21 [Francois]
Dave: I read it over. I think all of them need to be made more consistent.
15:45:42 [Francois]
Dave: I can look at it.
15:45:49 [Francois]
Action on Dave????
15:46:26 [AxelPolleres]
15:46:32 [AlexKozlenkov]
15:46:36 [Francois]
Chris: We are still on schedule. 3 UC are significantly digfffent, new or changed.
15:46:49 [Francois]
Chris: Major change will be to incorporate requirements.
15:47:27 [Francois]
Chris: the WG has a bit more than a week to review the document. Next Tuesday the document should be ready and we should vote on it. Objections?
15:47:56 [ChrisW]
15:48:04 [Francois]
Chris: W3C requires a WG to publish a document every 3 months. Therefore we should release the document in June.
15:48:25 [Francois]
Christian: the requirement part has been re-worked during the f2f.
15:48:52 [Francois]
Sandro: we need an editor's draft.
15:48:55 [DaveReynolds]
+1 to having an editor's draft
15:49:56 [Francois]
Chris: Dave and Sandro, can we get an editor's draft for 37th June?
15:50:01 [Francois]
Answer is yes.
15:50:18 [Francois]
Chris: means add new 3 UC annd add requirements.
15:50:21 [sandro]
15:50:23 [Francois]
15:50:38 [MoZ]
MoZ has joined #rif
15:50:51 [Francois]
Ian (?): Update of ??? for new requirement?
15:51:03 [Francois]
Frank: Update of diagram will be done for next week.
15:51:11 [csma]
ACTION: David and Sandro to produce editor's draft of UC&R by 27th June
15:52:15 [PaulaP]
15:52:21 [sandro]
Frank needs to see final Requirements by Friday
15:52:34 [PaulaP]
I can work with Frank on the diagram
15:52:41 [Franc]
Franc has joined #rif
15:52:49 [Franc]
Franc is FrancoisBry
15:52:59 [sandro]
my understanding of the output from the meeting:
15:53:01 [Franc]
zakim, Franc is FrancoisBry
15:53:01 [Zakim]
+FrancoisBry; got it
15:53:37 [Franc]
Chris: Paul and Frank, could you try to get it for next week,.
15:54:15 [csma]
ACTION: Sandro, Paula, David to update Frank on requirements by Friday
15:54:24 [csma]
ACTION: Frank to produce new GCSFR picture by next Tuesday
15:54:53 [PaulaP]
15:55:32 [csma]
ACTION: Chris to scheudle editors meeting for UCR schedule and meeting between Paula and Franck on content for updated diagram
15:55:54 [Franc]
Chris: Plan is to release draft for internal review next week.
15:56:08 [Franc]
Christian: the draft should include RIFRAF.
15:56:47 [Franc]
Christian: a number of requirements had been moved for the time after RIFRAF worked out.
15:57:13 [Franc]
Christian: There was an action on Gary and Carrol to update RIFRAF for last Friday.
15:57:24 [Franc]
Gary: I did some edits.
15:57:40 [PaulaP]
15:57:42 [AxelPolleres]
i am starving on the queue.... ;-)
15:57:52 [Franc]
15:57:56 [PaulaP]
15:58:07 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, unmute me
15:58:07 [Zakim]
AxelPolleres should no longer be muted
15:58:19 [sandro]
Harold, where on the Wiki?
15:58:40 [Franc]
AexelPolleres: Point mentioned during f2f to restructure UC. Are there actions on that?
15:58:40 [JeffP] ?
15:59:12 [Franc]
Chris: I woory that we are suggesting too many changes for one week.
15:59:40 [AxelPolleres]
I proposed it already right after the publication of the first draft.
15:59:46 [AxelPolleres]
15:59:50 [Franc]
Chrisitan: Axel already proposed it during the f2f. We wanted to make it for 2nd draft.
15:59:53 [sandro]
Harold, is there obsolete text on that page? (it seems like it.) What is the text that's supposed to be published?
16:00:18 [DavidHirtle]
16:00:23 [Franc]
Paula: Question about requirements. Do I have to edit, restructure? We need a definitioon of 'covers'.
16:00:25 [DavidHirtle]
16:00:26 [AxelPolleres]
Remark: I also offered to help on this alignment.
16:00:28 [csma]
Axel, agreed that you mentionned that already in March; the point is that this draft is about requirements, not so much UCs
16:00:32 [AxelPolleres]
16:00:42 [Franc]
Chris: Will be discussed in the forthcoming editors telecon.
16:00:42 [csma]
ack paulap
16:00:45 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, mute me
16:00:45 [Zakim]
AxelPolleres should now be muted
16:00:55 [Franc]
Chris: Harold is RIFRAF ready to be included in document?
16:01:03 [PaulaP]
zakim, mute me
16:01:03 [Zakim]
PaulaP should now be muted
16:01:27 [Franc]
Harold: I thunk it is but there is something new on comparing action production rules. This must be checked.
16:01:32 [sandro]
Harold: there is a new table, but it's maybe not ready for the draft yet.
16:01:43 [sandro]
Harold: But the four discriminators are
16:02:16 [Franc]
Christian: We are not trying to get a complete RIFRAF. It shoud be presented as 'work in progress'.
16:02:35 [Franc]
Chris: We could only include section on 'discriminators'.
16:03:06 [ChrisW]
16:03:23 [MalaMehrotra]
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16:04:44 [Franc]
Christian: I suuggest that Harold extracts the part (of RIFRAF) to be appended to UCR.
16:04:53 [Franc]
16:05:54 [ChrisW]
16:06:01 [Franc]
Chris: Question on UCR doocuments?
16:06:06 [MalaMehrotra]
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16:06:21 [Franc]
Sandro: Let us record plan in IRC. Chris, please help me:
16:06:33 [Franc]
3 parts:
16:06:38 [Franc]
- 2 new UC
16:06:41 [Franc]
- 1 revised UC
16:06:47 [Franc]
- requirements from f2f
16:06:56 [Franc]
- discriminator section from RIFRAF.
16:07:11 [Franc]
This is new content of new UCR darft.
16:07:17 [sandro]
Chris: 2 news uses cases, 1 revised use case, the requirements from F2F, descriminators section of F2F --- that's the new content of WD2 of UCR. The rest will be the same modulo minor editorial changes.
16:07:54 [Franc]
Chris: RIFRAF as next point of our agenda.
16:08:21 [Franc]
Chris: Main content discussed at f2f will go into next working draft.
16:09:17 [Franc]
Chris: syntactic, semantic, pragmatic discriminators. At the f2f we went over all of them, mde sure everyone understands, moved material,
16:09:49 [Franc]
Chris: a large number of requirements have been moved into RIFRAF.
16:10:14 [Franc]
Chris: eg 'RIF will support comments' moved to syntactic discriminators.
16:10:42 [Franc]
Chris: Strong negation is another example.
16:11:15 [AxelPolleres]
strong negation is like classical negation without "law of the excluded middle", not more, not less, actually this is a very simple concept.
16:11:19 [ChrisW]
csma: corretion, "supporting comments" was not moved, but accepted as a requirement
16:11:20 [Franc]
Chrisitian: since we moved many req to RIFRAF we would apply the RIFRAF to as many rule languages s we want RIF to cover.
16:11:45 [Franc]
Chrisitan: We will use RIFRAF to see what language go into RIF Pase 1, RIF Phase 2, etc.
16:11:59 [Franc]
Christian: Currently we have 5 of them Ilog, Lifg
16:12:04 [AxelPolleres]
16:12:07 [Franc]
16:12:16 [Franc]
DVL, Xcerpt, Xchange, etc.
16:12:25 [AxelPolleres]
16:12:43 [Franc]
Chrisitan: we need a lot more rlue languages described for identify usefull, necessary, etc. features.
16:12:54 [Franc]
hrisitian: Who can work on adding rule languages?
16:13:02 [Franc]
Chris: Not for next Working Draft.
16:13:14 [Franc]
Christian: For the working draft after.
16:13:21 [PaulaP]
16:13:36 [JosDeRoo]
chair's projected slides from F2F3
16:14:02 [Franc]
Chris: We need the WG to look at rulle languages and identify what is mssing, people to take actions ot update with important elements, identify people responsible for requirement to move to RIFRAF.
16:14:14 [Franc]
Chris: more organisation will be needed.
16:14:30 [Franc]
Chris: we should take actions next week.
16:15:02 [ChrisW]
16:15:05 [Franc]
Chris: Please go all thru discriminators in RIFRAF, make sure you understand them, identify new discriminatorsthat matter for you.
16:15:15 [Franc]
Chris: Next item is technical design.
16:15:28 [Franc]
Chris: at f2f tech. design not deeply discussed.
16:15:44 [JosDeRoo]
16:15:44 [Franc]
Chris: we had a discussions and have taken actions.
16:15:52 [AxelPolleres]
16:15:57 [Franc]
Chris: Action on mapping beween ... and DLV.
16:16:47 [AxelPolleres]
16:16:48 [Franc]
Christian: Actions of this session have not been recorded. There was action on Hassan to propose extension to Harold proposal.
16:16:57 [Franc]
Chris: That action is recorded.
16:17:23 [Franc]
Christian: That session on technical design was short but interesting.
16:17:42 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, unmute me
16:17:42 [Zakim]
AxelPolleres should no longer be muted
16:17:45 [Franc]
Christian: Were do we go now?
16:17:54 [Franc]
Who speaks???
16:18:12 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, mute me
16:18:12 [Zakim]
AxelPolleres should now be muted
16:18:19 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, unmute me
16:18:19 [Zakim]
AxelPolleres should no longer be muted
16:18:40 [PaulaP]
16:18:42 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, mute me
16:18:42 [Zakim]
AxelPolleres should now be muted
16:19:08 [Franc]
Chris: How do we map from condition language to Peter's (?) language?
16:19:20 [AxelPolleres]
THe question was whether/what of the condition language can NOT be mapped into your language.
16:20:00 [Franc]
Peter (pfps): I gave a maaping. But noot all ike it.
16:20:06 [Franc]
16:20:50 [Franc]
Chrisitan: Peter, the 1st action was to map Harold's condition language to y ours. What
16:21:08 [Franc]
is missing in 'Harold's proposal for the reverse mapping?
16:21:20 [Franc]
16:21:46 [Franc]
Chris: Peter, do you want to take an action?
16:21:55 [AxelPolleres]
the issue was: for instance: some languages/systems can NOT deal with e.g. universal conditions, this should be pointed out.
16:22:00 [Franc]
Chris: I suggest to talk about this later.
16:22:34 [Franc]
Peter: There is a requirement to map bewtween 2 different syntaxes. But requirements on that mapping are empty.
16:22:52 [Franc]
Peter: I proposed some requirements for the mapping in general.
16:22:55 [Franc]
16:23:09 [Franc]
we have to review them, you mean.
16:23:15 [PaulaP]
s/ Chrisitan/Christian
16:23:20 [Franc]
16:23:56 [Franc]
Christian: Those requirements were in your first posting. Could you summarize them for helping reviewing and discussing them.
16:24:17 [Franc]
Peter: The conditions for my requirements to make sense are not satisfied by the RIFRAF.
16:24:31 [Franc]
Chris: Have you made this clear in an email or elsewhere?
16:25:04 [Franc]
Peter: There is somnething missing in the RIFRAF. THis iis semantics. Whithout semantics, how can you figure out if mappings are good or not.
16:25:19 [Franc]
Chris: You mean condition language, not RIFRAF.
16:25:24 [Franc]
Peter. agreed
16:25:57 [Franc]
Francois: But as far as I remember a semantics for Harold's condition language has been stressed.
16:25:59 [Zakim]
16:26:04 [Franc]
Chris: Any other business?
16:26:13 [JeffP]
16:26:14 [sandro]
+1 adjourn
16:26:15 [Zakim]
16:26:19 [Zakim]
16:26:20 [Zakim]
16:26:20 [Zakim]
16:26:21 [Zakim]
16:26:21 [Zakim]
16:26:23 [Zakim]
16:26:23 [sandro]
RRSAgent, make minutes
16:26:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate sandro
16:26:24 [Zakim]
16:26:24 [Franc]
Chris: None. Suggest o adjourn.
16:26:25 [Zakim]
16:26:27 [Zakim]
16:26:29 [Zakim]
16:26:30 [Franc]
Zakim, unmute me.
16:26:31 [Zakim]
16:26:33 [Zakim]
16:26:34 [Zakim]
16:26:36 [Zakim]
FrancoisBry should no longer be muted
16:26:38 [Zakim]
16:26:40 [Zakim]
16:27:08 [sandro]
16:28:51 [Zakim]
16:30:18 [Zakim]
16:32:16 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:32:16 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Sandro, ChrisW, csma
16:36:46 [Zakim]
16:36:48 [Zakim]
16:36:50 [Zakim]
16:36:52 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
16:36:53 [Zakim]
Attendees were Sandro, Francois, ChrisW, PaulaP, Harold, FrankMcCabe, pfps, Deborah_Nichols, AxelPolleres, Dave_Reynolds, csma, Leora_Morgenstern, AlexKozlenkov, StellaMitchell,
16:36:55 [Zakim]
... JeffP, Evan_Wallace, Jos_De_Roo, johnhall, DavidHirtle, Donald_Chapin, MichaelKifer, Mala_Mehrotra, FrancoisBry
16:37:12 [csma]
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18:53:49 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #rif