IRC log of dawg on 2006-06-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:28:51 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #dawg

14:28:52 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-irc

14:28:55 [kendallclark]

zakim, this is DAWG

14:28:55 [Zakim]

kendallclark, I see SW_DAWG()9:30AM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be DAWG".

14:29:19 [kendallclark]

shit

14:29:27 [kendallclark]

i think i forgot to tell zakim about the new meeting time

14:29:33 [kendallclark]

i wonder how badly that screws us?

14:30:07 [kendallclark]

zakim, this will be DAWG

14:30:07 [Zakim]

ok, kendallclark, I see SW_DAWG()9:30AM already started

14:30:42 [Zakim]

+??P2

14:30:42 [kendallclark]

ericP: you here?

14:30:48 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P2 is me

14:30:48 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

14:31:00 [AndyS]

EricP sent his regrets

14:32:28 [FredZ]

FredZ has joined #dawg

14:32:33 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda+ convene, rollcall, recruit scribe, approve minutes

14:32:33 [Zakim]

agendum 1 added

14:32:40 [Zakim]

+Elias_Torres

14:32:42 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda+ Meetings in July

14:32:42 [Zakim]

agendum 2 added

14:32:54 [EliasT]

EliasT has joined #dawg

14:32:58 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda+ Review MIME Type registration & comments

14:32:58 [Zakim]

agendum 3 added

14:33:10 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda+ Function namespace proposal

14:33:10 [Zakim]

agendum 4 added

14:33:29 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda+ OPTIONALs

14:33:30 [Zakim]

agendum 5 added

14:33:38 [EliasT]

Meeting: Weekly DAWG Meeting

14:33:42 [ericP]

EricP is in a f2f. DanC agreed to represent W3

14:33:43 [EliasT]

Chair: kendallclark

14:33:47 [EliasT]

Scribe: EliasT

14:33:50 [Zakim]

+DanC

14:33:58 [EliasT]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

14:33:58 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Kendall_Clark, AndyS, Elias_Torres, DanC

14:34:01 [Zakim]

+ +1.650.372.aaaa

14:34:06 [EliasT]

Zakim, Elias_Torres is me

14:34:06 [Zakim]

+EliasT; got it

14:34:27 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda+ 9 June comments from Oracle

14:34:27 [Zakim]

agendum 6 added

14:34:36 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda+ Action Items

14:34:36 [Zakim]

agendum 7 added

14:34:57 [kendallclark]

zakim, aaaa is FredZ

14:34:57 [Zakim]

+FredZ; got it

14:35:04 [kendallclark]

DanC: thanks

14:35:17 [kendallclark]

DanC: can you remind me of the email address to which I should send email about schedule changes?

14:36:01 [kendallclark]

SteveH: are you there?

14:36:19 [SteveH]

kendallclark, aye, sorry, didnt relaise what the time was

14:36:27 [kendallclark]

are you calling in today?

14:36:31 [SteveH]

will be online shortly

14:36:59 [DanC]

q+ to note comments from PFPS still pending

14:37:12 [kendallclark]

uri?

14:37:22 [Zakim]

+??P16

14:37:27 [SteveH]

Zakim, P16 is me

14:37:27 [Zakim]

sorry, SteveH, I do not recognize a party named 'P16'

14:37:33 [SteveH]

Zakim, ??P16 is me

14:37:33 [Zakim]

+SteveH; got it

14:38:01 [EliasT]

any regrets?

14:38:05 [kendallclark]

zakim, who's on the phone

14:38:05 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'who's on the phone', kendallclark

14:38:12 [kendallclark]

zakim, who's on the phone?

14:38:12 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Kendall_Clark, AndyS, EliasT, DanC, FredZ, SteveH

14:38:21 [DanC]

comments from PFPS 22 Feb http://www.w3.org/mid/20060222.185654.133907622.pfps@research.bell-labs.com , noted in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/crq349#obj

14:38:58 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda+ Note PFPS's outstanding comments

14:38:58 [Zakim]

agendum 8 added

14:39:04 [EliasT]

Regrets: ericP, LeeF, libby

14:41:01 [kendallclark]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0162.html

14:42:55 [kendallclark]

Amended, thus: Present: KendallC, AFS, EricP, FredZ, PatH, EliasT, LeeF

14:43:11 [kendallclark]

Possibly partial list of attendees

14:43:55 [AndyS]

Poss AOBs: Test suite? Other implementations for CR?

14:48:30 [kendallclark]

kendallclark has joined #dawg

14:48:36 [kendallclark]

argh, lost network...

14:49:45 [EliasT]

FredZ: When does the group think we'll finish?

14:50:10 [EliasT]

DanC: We are dependent on XQuery and that's not finished.

14:51:32 [EliasT]

kendallclark: After July holidays, he'll be responsible to announce if there's a chance to conclude by November.

14:51:47 [kendallclark]

zakim, next agendum

14:51:47 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "convene, rollcall, recruit scribe, approve minutes" taken up [from kendallclark]

14:53:15 [DanC]

(sounds like Andy is asking to discuss the implementation report http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/imp39 )

14:54:12 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda+ Implementation Report

14:54:12 [Zakim]

agendum 9 added

14:54:52 [DanC]

Zakim, close item 1

14:54:52 [Zakim]

agendum 1, convene, rollcall, recruit scribe, approve minutes, closed

14:54:53 [Zakim]

I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:54:55 [Zakim]

2. Meetings in July [from kendallclark]

14:54:56 [DanC]

Zakim, take up item 2

14:54:56 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Meetings in July" taken up [from kendallclark]

14:55:11 [DanC]

Zakim, take up item 3

14:55:11 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "Review MIME Type registration & comments" taken up [from kendallclark]

14:55:17 [kendallclark]

thanks

14:55:23 [DanC]

Zakim, close item 2

14:55:23 [Zakim]

agendum 2, Meetings in July, closed

14:55:24 [Zakim]

I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:55:25 [Zakim]

3. Review MIME Type registration & comments [from kendallclark]

14:56:05 [DanC]

q+ to note app/xml doesn't distinguish RDF/XML from sparql-results

14:58:05 [kendallclark]

zakim, mute me

14:58:05 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should now be muted

14:58:15 [kendallclark]

zakim, unmute me

14:58:15 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted

14:58:22 [EliasT]

+xml

14:59:55 [DanC]

PROPOSED: to justify the json mime type by noting that JSON might be used to serialized RDF abstract syntax, so app/json doesn't distinguish the results format

15:00:22 [DanC]

PROPOSED: to justify the json results mime type by noting that JSON might be used to serialized RDF abstract syntax, so app/json doesn't distinguish the results format

15:00:30 [EliasT]

AndyS: reminds us that a possible JSON RDF Graph encoding convention that would sparql-results+json format.

15:00:50 [kendallclark]

RESOLVED

15:00:59 [EliasT]

EliasT: seconds.

15:01:17 [kendallclark]

ACTION: EliasT to respond to Mark Baker's comments re: MIME type as we just resolved

15:02:29 [kendallclark]

zakim, next agendum

15:02:29 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "Function namespace proposal" taken up [from kendallclark]

15:02:33 [EliasT]

http://dowhatimean.net/2006/05/rdfjson

15:02:50 [EliasT]

-> RDF/JSON using SPARQL REsults Format in JSON for Graph encoding.

15:03:14 [kendallclark]

zakim, next agendum

15:03:14 [Zakim]

agendum 4 was just opened, kendallclark

15:03:19 [kendallclark]

zakim, close agendum 3

15:03:19 [Zakim]

agendum 3, Review MIME Type registration & comments, closed

15:03:20 [Zakim]

I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:03:21 [kendallclark]

zakim, next agendum

15:03:22 [Zakim]

4. Function namespace proposal [from kendallclark]

15:03:23 [Zakim]

agendum 4 was just opened, kendallclark

15:03:29 [DanC]

Zakim, close item 4

15:03:29 [Zakim]

agendum 4, Function namespace proposal, closed

15:03:30 [Zakim]

I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:03:31 [Zakim]

5. OPTIONALs [from kendallclark]

15:03:42 [DanC]

Zakim, take up item 5

15:03:42 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "OPTIONALs" taken up [from kendallclark]

15:04:27 [EliasT]

kendallclark: Looking for status from OPTIONALS discussion between FredZ, PatH, ericP and others.

15:06:28 [EliasT]

FredZ: I have been having a private discussion with PatH, ericP and AndyS

15:06:51 [EliasT]

KendallClark: I would like more of the traffic in the public mailing list to be able to track it better.

15:07:28 [SteveH]

zakim, mute me

15:07:28 [Zakim]

SteveH should now be muted

15:09:00 [EliasT]

AndyS: He's not proposing changing semantics in CR

15:09:12 [EliasT]

... looking more for editorial at the moment.

15:09:30 [EliasT]

FredZ: You have seen my comments, what do you think?

15:09:41 [EliasT]

AndyS: I find the grammar fixes/tweaks to be ok.

15:10:00 [EliasT]

... we need to fix bnodes, blank nodes, blank labels.

15:10:09 [EliasT]

... but I need to go more through your comments first.

15:10:11 [kendallclark]

Tying things *more* closely to the grammar though is at cross-purposes w/ the comments about semantics from the guys at Pontifical U in Chile, though -- I think...

15:11:07 [DanC]

q+ to think out loud about the explicit mapping from grammar to semantics

15:12:05 [kendallclark]

Isn't that thrust in conflict with:

15:12:06 [kendallclark]

1) The evaluation process of a language should be directed by a

15:12:06 [kendallclark]

clear semantics and not by the language grammar

15:12:06 [kendallclark]

(http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2006Apr/0023.html).

15:12:06 [EliasT]

DanC: We currently don't specify some connections between the semantics and the grammar.

15:13:08 [EliasT]

FredZ, can you please type this?

15:13:15 [DanC]

{ P1 } UNION { P2 } OPTIONAL { P3 }

15:14:18 [kendallclark]

q?

15:14:45 [kendallclark]

ack DanC

15:14:45 [Zakim]

DanC, you wanted to note app/xml doesn't distinguish RDF/XML from sparql-results and to think out loud about the explicit mapping from grammar to semantics

15:14:46 [EliasT]

AndyS: We can add references to grammar rules in the definition sections to explicitly state the connection and hope that our users can benefit from that.

15:15:33 [kendallclark]

Steve?

15:15:38 [SteveH]

yes, im following, but I implement OPTIONAL as prefix, not infeix

15:15:43 [SteveH]

(bug)

15:15:50 [SteveH]

zakim, unmute me

15:15:50 [Zakim]

SteveH should no longer be muted

15:17:08 [EliasT]

q+ A commenter sent some patches for test, some are for approved tests, some aren't. How do I proceed making changes? Or will SteveH do it?

15:17:13 [SteveH]

steve.harris@garlik.com

15:17:58 [kendallclark]

ACTION FredZ: to write an email w/ a test for the test suite re: { P1 } UNION { P2 } OPTIONAL { P3 }

15:18:46 [AndyS]

c.f. http://sparql.org/validator.html

15:19:05 [kendallclark]

zakim, next agendum

15:19:05 [Zakim]

agendum 6. "9 June comments from Oracle" taken up [from kendallclark]

15:19:48 [EliasT]

q+ to ask about how do I got about fixing some test cases: approved and not.

15:20:10 [DanC]

q+ to note relationships between Oracle 9 Jun stuff and issues

15:22:06 [kendallclark]

ack DanC

15:22:06 [Zakim]

DanC, you wanted to note relationships between Oracle 9 Jun stuff and issues

15:22:40 [SteveH]

zakim, mute me

15:22:40 [Zakim]

SteveH should now be muted

15:23:09 [DanC]

an open issue is a promise to make a decision. http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues

15:27:51 [DanC]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0117.html

15:27:57 [DanC]

comment on A.7 "Grammar"

15:30:55 [EliasT]

ACTION: KendallClark to reopen punctuationSyntax to take up commas in SELECT clause.

15:31:52 [DanC]

I suggest KC think about marking http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#nestedOptionals re-opened

15:31:53 [kendallclark]

a prerogative I'm largely scared of :)

15:32:30 [kendallclark]

danc: based on which message, please?

15:32:51 [DanC]

well, based on today's agenda, for example, and the question you asked to SteveH

15:33:02 [kendallclark]

yep, fair enough...

15:33:12 [kendallclark]

ACTION: KendallC to reopen nestedOptionals

15:33:25 [DanC]

I could probably find 3 to 6 public-dawg-comments messages on optionals

15:33:40 [DanC]

Zakim, agenda?

15:33:40 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:

15:33:41 [Zakim]

6. 9 June comments from Oracle [from kendallclark]

15:33:42 [Zakim]

7. Action Items [from kendallclark]

15:33:43 [Zakim]

8. Note PFPS's outstanding comments [from kendallclark]

15:33:44 [Zakim]

9. Implementation Report [from kendallclark]

15:33:51 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:33:51 [Zakim]

agendum 7. "Action Items" taken up [from kendallclark]

15:35:39 [DanC]

KC leans toward a new issue rather than nestedOptionals

15:36:02 [EliasT]

Zakim, drop action

15:36:02 [Zakim]

sorry, EliasT, I do not see a party named 'action'

15:36:05 [kendallclark]

kendallclark has joined #dawg

15:36:19 [kendallclark]

zakim, agenda?

15:36:19 [Zakim]

I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:

15:36:20 [Zakim]

7. Action Items [from kendallclark]

15:36:21 [Zakim]

8. Note PFPS's outstanding comments [from kendallclark]

15:36:23 [Zakim]

9. Implementation Report [from kendallclark]

15:36:25 [AndyS]

rrsagent, drop action

15:36:30 [EliasT]

ACTION: take up new issue concatenated nestedOptional

15:36:30 [kendallclark]

zakim, take up next action

15:36:30 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'take up next action', kendallclark

15:36:36 [AndyS]

rrsagent, drop action 4

15:36:36 [DanC]

ACTION 4 = KendallC to open an issue around optionals

15:36:37 [kendallclark]

zakim, take up next agendum

15:36:37 [Zakim]

agendum 8. "Note PFPS's outstanding comments" taken up [from kendallclark]

15:37:24 [DanC]

-> http://www.w3.org/mid/20060222.185654.133907622.pfps@research.bell-labs.com PFPS 22 Feb

15:38:27 [DanC]

[[

15:38:27 [DanC]

C2.38: This is very misleading. SPARQL matching does indeed restrict the bnode

15:38:27 [DanC]

in query results to be bnodes from the RDF graph, but not in a useful way. For

15:38:27 [DanC]

example,

15:38:27 [DanC]

?x ex:a ex:b .

15:38:28 [DanC]

matches against

15:38:30 [DanC]

_:a ex:a _:b .

15:38:32 [DanC]

with two results for ?x, at least as far as I can determine.

15:38:34 [DanC]

]]

15:39:15 [DanC]

ACTION DanC: review PFPS's comments for more test cases

15:39:28 [kendallclark]

ACTION EliasT: to turn C2.38 in PFPS's message into a test case

15:40:20 [kendallclark]

zakim, next agendum

15:40:20 [Zakim]

agendum 9. "Implementation Report" taken up [from kendallclark]

15:40:48 [DanC]

-> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/imp39 implementation report stub

15:41:04 [kendallclark]

Test suite, show coverage of language features by 2 or more implementations -- our CR exit criteria

15:42:07 [DanC]

q+ to note my favorite precedent: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/impls http://www.w3.org/2003/08/owl-systems/test-results-out

15:44:14 [SteveH]

things aren't too bad for me at the moment, I can do a bit on the tests

15:44:30 [SteveH]

zakim, unmute me

15:44:30 [Zakim]

SteveH should no longer be muted

15:44:55 [SteveH]

zakim, mute me

15:44:55 [Zakim]

SteveH should now be muted

15:45:24 [SteveH]

sure

15:45:27 [kendallclark]

q?

15:45:32 [kendallclark]

ack EliasT

15:45:32 [Zakim]

EliasT, you wanted to ask about how do I got about fixing some test cases: approved and not.

15:47:09 [DanC]

ack danc

15:47:09 [Zakim]

DanC, you wanted to note my favorite precedent: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/impls http://www.w3.org/2003/08/owl-systems/test-results-out

15:49:00 [DanC]

EARL - the Evaluation And Report Language http://www.w3.org/2001/03/earl/

15:49:07 [SteveH]

the test generator should use SPARQL too...

15:49:12 [SteveH]

*result generator

15:51:20 [DanC]

Zakim, pick a scribe

15:51:20 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose FredZ

15:51:30 [DanC]

Zakim, pick a scribe

15:51:30 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose DanC

15:51:37 [AndyS]

August 1.

15:53:01 [SteveH]

50/50

15:53:02 [DanC]

PROPOSED: to meet 27 Jun 14:30Z, DanC to scribe

15:53:19 [DanC]

so RESOLVED

15:53:31 [SteveH]

bye

15:53:33 [Zakim]

-EliasT

15:53:42 [EliasT]

rrsagent, please generate minutes

15:53:42 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-minutes.html EliasT

15:53:49 [Zakim]

-SteveH

15:57:49 [Zakim]

-Kendall_Clark

15:57:51 [Zakim]

-DanC

15:57:58 [Zakim]

-AndyS

15:58:04 [Zakim]

-FredZ

15:58:05 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended

15:58:06 [Zakim]

Attendees were Kendall_Clark, AndyS, DanC, +1.650.372.aaaa, EliasT, FredZ, SteveH

15:58:27 [AndyS]

rrsagent, please draft the minutes

15:58:27 [RRSAgent]

I'm logging. I don't understand 'please draft the minutes', AndyS. Try /msg RRSAgent help

15:58:39 [AndyS]

rrsagent, stop logging

15:58:39 [RRSAgent]

I'm logging. I don't understand 'stop logging', AndyS. Try /msg RRSAgent help

15:59:29 [AndyS]

rrsagent, please leave us

15:59:29 [RRSAgent]

I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-actions.rdf :

15:59:29 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: EliasT to respond to Mark Baker's comments re: MIME type as we just resolved [1]

15:59:29 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-irc#T15-01-17

15:59:29 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: FredZ to to write an email w/ a test for the test suite re: { P1 } UNION { P2 } OPTIONAL { P3 } [2]

15:59:29 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-irc#T15-17-58

15:59:29 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: KendallClark to reopen punctuationSyntax to take up commas in SELECT clause. [3]

15:59:29 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-irc#T15-30-55

15:59:29 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: take up new issue concatenated nestedOptional [5]

15:59:29 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-irc#T15-36-30

15:59:29 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: DanC to review PFPS's comments for more test cases [6]

15:59:29 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-irc#T15-39-15

15:59:29 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: EliasT to to turn C2.38 in PFPS's message into a test case [7]

15:59:29 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-irc#T15-39-28

15:59:40 [AndyS]

zakim, please leave us

15:59:40 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'please leave us', AndyS

15:59:48 [AndyS]

zakim, please leave

15:59:48 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #dawg