IRC log of dawg on 2006-06-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:28:51 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:28:52 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-irc
14:28:55 [kendallclark]
zakim, this is DAWG
14:28:55 [Zakim]
kendallclark, I see SW_DAWG()9:30AM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be DAWG".
14:29:19 [kendallclark]
shit
14:29:27 [kendallclark]
i think i forgot to tell zakim about the new meeting time
14:29:33 [kendallclark]
i wonder how badly that screws us?
14:30:07 [kendallclark]
zakim, this will be DAWG
14:30:07 [Zakim]
ok, kendallclark, I see SW_DAWG()9:30AM already started
14:30:42 [Zakim]
+??P2
14:30:42 [kendallclark]
ericP: you here?
14:30:48 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P2 is me
14:30:48 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
14:31:00 [AndyS]
EricP sent his regrets
14:32:28 [FredZ]
FredZ has joined #dawg
14:32:33 [kendallclark]
zakim, agenda+ convene, rollcall, recruit scribe, approve minutes
14:32:33 [Zakim]
agendum 1 added
14:32:40 [Zakim]
+Elias_Torres
14:32:42 [kendallclark]
zakim, agenda+ Meetings in July
14:32:42 [Zakim]
agendum 2 added
14:32:54 [EliasT]
EliasT has joined #dawg
14:32:58 [kendallclark]
zakim, agenda+ Review MIME Type registration & comments
14:32:58 [Zakim]
agendum 3 added
14:33:10 [kendallclark]
zakim, agenda+ Function namespace proposal
14:33:10 [Zakim]
agendum 4 added
14:33:29 [kendallclark]
zakim, agenda+ OPTIONALs
14:33:30 [Zakim]
agendum 5 added
14:33:38 [EliasT]
Meeting: Weekly DAWG Meeting
14:33:42 [ericP]
EricP is in a f2f. DanC agreed to represent W3
14:33:43 [EliasT]
Chair: kendallclark
14:33:47 [EliasT]
Scribe: EliasT
14:33:50 [Zakim]
+DanC
14:33:58 [EliasT]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:33:58 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Kendall_Clark, AndyS, Elias_Torres, DanC
14:34:01 [Zakim]
+ +1.650.372.aaaa
14:34:06 [EliasT]
Zakim, Elias_Torres is me
14:34:06 [Zakim]
+EliasT; got it
14:34:27 [kendallclark]
zakim, agenda+ 9 June comments from Oracle
14:34:27 [Zakim]
agendum 6 added
14:34:36 [kendallclark]
zakim, agenda+ Action Items
14:34:36 [Zakim]
agendum 7 added
14:34:57 [kendallclark]
zakim, aaaa is FredZ
14:34:57 [Zakim]
+FredZ; got it
14:35:04 [kendallclark]
DanC: thanks
14:35:17 [kendallclark]
DanC: can you remind me of the email address to which I should send email about schedule changes?
14:36:01 [kendallclark]
SteveH: are you there?
14:36:19 [SteveH]
kendallclark, aye, sorry, didnt relaise what the time was
14:36:27 [kendallclark]
are you calling in today?
14:36:31 [SteveH]
will be online shortly
14:36:59 [DanC]
q+ to note comments from PFPS still pending
14:37:12 [kendallclark]
uri?
14:37:22 [Zakim]
+??P16
14:37:27 [SteveH]
Zakim, P16 is me
14:37:27 [Zakim]
sorry, SteveH, I do not recognize a party named 'P16'
14:37:33 [SteveH]
Zakim, ??P16 is me
14:37:33 [Zakim]
+SteveH; got it
14:38:01 [EliasT]
any regrets?
14:38:05 [kendallclark]
zakim, who's on the phone
14:38:05 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who's on the phone', kendallclark
14:38:12 [kendallclark]
zakim, who's on the phone?
14:38:12 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Kendall_Clark, AndyS, EliasT, DanC, FredZ, SteveH
14:38:21 [DanC]
comments from PFPS 22 Feb http://www.w3.org/mid/20060222.185654.133907622.pfps@research.bell-labs.com , noted in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/crq349#obj
14:38:58 [kendallclark]
zakim, agenda+ Note PFPS's outstanding comments
14:38:58 [Zakim]
agendum 8 added
14:39:04 [EliasT]
Regrets: ericP, LeeF, libby
14:41:01 [kendallclark]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0162.html
14:42:55 [kendallclark]
Amended, thus: Present: KendallC, AFS, EricP, FredZ, PatH, EliasT, LeeF
14:43:11 [kendallclark]
Possibly partial list of attendees
14:43:55 [AndyS]
Poss AOBs: Test suite? Other implementations for CR?
14:48:30 [kendallclark]
kendallclark has joined #dawg
14:48:36 [kendallclark]
argh, lost network...
14:49:45 [EliasT]
FredZ: When does the group think we'll finish?
14:50:10 [EliasT]
DanC: We are dependent on XQuery and that's not finished.
14:51:32 [EliasT]
kendallclark: After July holidays, he'll be responsible to announce if there's a chance to conclude by November.
14:51:47 [kendallclark]
zakim, next agendum
14:51:47 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "convene, rollcall, recruit scribe, approve minutes" taken up [from kendallclark]
14:53:15 [DanC]
(sounds like Andy is asking to discuss the implementation report http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/imp39 )
14:54:12 [kendallclark]
zakim, agenda+ Implementation Report
14:54:12 [Zakim]
agendum 9 added
14:54:52 [DanC]
Zakim, close item 1
14:54:52 [Zakim]
agendum 1, convene, rollcall, recruit scribe, approve minutes, closed
14:54:53 [Zakim]
I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:54:55 [Zakim]
2. Meetings in July [from kendallclark]
14:54:56 [DanC]
Zakim, take up item 2
14:54:56 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Meetings in July" taken up [from kendallclark]
14:55:11 [DanC]
Zakim, take up item 3
14:55:11 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Review MIME Type registration & comments" taken up [from kendallclark]
14:55:17 [kendallclark]
thanks
14:55:23 [DanC]
Zakim, close item 2
14:55:23 [Zakim]
agendum 2, Meetings in July, closed
14:55:24 [Zakim]
I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:55:25 [Zakim]
3. Review MIME Type registration & comments [from kendallclark]
14:56:05 [DanC]
q+ to note app/xml doesn't distinguish RDF/XML from sparql-results
14:58:05 [kendallclark]
zakim, mute me
14:58:05 [Zakim]
Kendall_Clark should now be muted
14:58:15 [kendallclark]
zakim, unmute me
14:58:15 [Zakim]
Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
14:58:22 [EliasT]
+xml
14:59:55 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to justify the json mime type by noting that JSON might be used to serialized RDF abstract syntax, so app/json doesn't distinguish the results format
15:00:22 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to justify the json results mime type by noting that JSON might be used to serialized RDF abstract syntax, so app/json doesn't distinguish the results format
15:00:30 [EliasT]
AndyS: reminds us that a possible JSON RDF Graph encoding convention that would sparql-results+json format.
15:00:50 [kendallclark]
RESOLVED
15:00:59 [EliasT]
EliasT: seconds.
15:01:17 [kendallclark]
ACTION: EliasT to respond to Mark Baker's comments re: MIME type as we just resolved
15:02:29 [kendallclark]
zakim, next agendum
15:02:29 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Function namespace proposal" taken up [from kendallclark]
15:02:33 [EliasT]
http://dowhatimean.net/2006/05/rdfjson
15:02:50 [EliasT]
-> RDF/JSON using SPARQL REsults Format in JSON for Graph encoding.
15:03:14 [kendallclark]
zakim, next agendum
15:03:14 [Zakim]
agendum 4 was just opened, kendallclark
15:03:19 [kendallclark]
zakim, close agendum 3
15:03:19 [Zakim]
agendum 3, Review MIME Type registration & comments, closed
15:03:20 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:03:21 [kendallclark]
zakim, next agendum
15:03:22 [Zakim]
4. Function namespace proposal [from kendallclark]
15:03:23 [Zakim]
agendum 4 was just opened, kendallclark
15:03:29 [DanC]
Zakim, close item 4
15:03:29 [Zakim]
agendum 4, Function namespace proposal, closed
15:03:30 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:03:31 [Zakim]
5. OPTIONALs [from kendallclark]
15:03:42 [DanC]
Zakim, take up item 5
15:03:42 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "OPTIONALs" taken up [from kendallclark]
15:04:27 [EliasT]
kendallclark: Looking for status from OPTIONALS discussion between FredZ, PatH, ericP and others.
15:06:28 [EliasT]
FredZ: I have been having a private discussion with PatH, ericP and AndyS
15:06:51 [EliasT]
KendallClark: I would like more of the traffic in the public mailing list to be able to track it better.
15:07:28 [SteveH]
zakim, mute me
15:07:28 [Zakim]
SteveH should now be muted
15:09:00 [EliasT]
AndyS: He's not proposing changing semantics in CR
15:09:12 [EliasT]
... looking more for editorial at the moment.
15:09:30 [EliasT]
FredZ: You have seen my comments, what do you think?
15:09:41 [EliasT]
AndyS: I find the grammar fixes/tweaks to be ok.
15:10:00 [EliasT]
... we need to fix bnodes, blank nodes, blank labels.
15:10:09 [EliasT]
... but I need to go more through your comments first.
15:10:11 [kendallclark]
Tying things *more* closely to the grammar though is at cross-purposes w/ the comments about semantics from the guys at Pontifical U in Chile, though -- I think...
15:11:07 [DanC]
q+ to think out loud about the explicit mapping from grammar to semantics
15:12:05 [kendallclark]
Isn't that thrust in conflict with:
15:12:06 [kendallclark]
1) The evaluation process of a language should be directed by a
15:12:06 [kendallclark]
clear semantics and not by the language grammar
15:12:06 [kendallclark]
(http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2006Apr/0023.html).
15:12:06 [EliasT]
DanC: We currently don't specify some connections between the semantics and the grammar.
15:13:08 [EliasT]
FredZ, can you please type this?
15:13:15 [DanC]
{ P1 } UNION { P2 } OPTIONAL { P3 }
15:14:18 [kendallclark]
q?
15:14:45 [kendallclark]
ack DanC
15:14:45 [Zakim]
DanC, you wanted to note app/xml doesn't distinguish RDF/XML from sparql-results and to think out loud about the explicit mapping from grammar to semantics
15:14:46 [EliasT]
AndyS: We can add references to grammar rules in the definition sections to explicitly state the connection and hope that our users can benefit from that.
15:15:33 [kendallclark]
Steve?
15:15:38 [SteveH]
yes, im following, but I implement OPTIONAL as prefix, not infeix
15:15:43 [SteveH]
(bug)
15:15:50 [SteveH]
zakim, unmute me
15:15:50 [Zakim]
SteveH should no longer be muted
15:17:08 [EliasT]
q+ A commenter sent some patches for test, some are for approved tests, some aren't. How do I proceed making changes? Or will SteveH do it?
15:17:13 [SteveH]
steve.harris@garlik.com
15:17:58 [kendallclark]
ACTION FredZ: to write an email w/ a test for the test suite re: { P1 } UNION { P2 } OPTIONAL { P3 }
15:18:46 [AndyS]
c.f. http://sparql.org/validator.html
15:19:05 [kendallclark]
zakim, next agendum
15:19:05 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "9 June comments from Oracle" taken up [from kendallclark]
15:19:48 [EliasT]
q+ to ask about how do I got about fixing some test cases: approved and not.
15:20:10 [DanC]
q+ to note relationships between Oracle 9 Jun stuff and issues
15:22:06 [kendallclark]
ack DanC
15:22:06 [Zakim]
DanC, you wanted to note relationships between Oracle 9 Jun stuff and issues
15:22:40 [SteveH]
zakim, mute me
15:22:40 [Zakim]
SteveH should now be muted
15:23:09 [DanC]
an open issue is a promise to make a decision. http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues
15:27:51 [DanC]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0117.html
15:27:57 [DanC]
comment on A.7 "Grammar"
15:30:55 [EliasT]
ACTION: KendallClark to reopen punctuationSyntax to take up commas in SELECT clause.
15:31:52 [DanC]
I suggest KC think about marking http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#nestedOptionals re-opened
15:31:53 [kendallclark]
a prerogative I'm largely scared of :)
15:32:30 [kendallclark]
danc: based on which message, please?
15:32:51 [DanC]
well, based on today's agenda, for example, and the question you asked to SteveH
15:33:02 [kendallclark]
yep, fair enough...
15:33:12 [kendallclark]
ACTION: KendallC to reopen nestedOptionals
15:33:25 [DanC]
I could probably find 3 to 6 public-dawg-comments messages on optionals
15:33:40 [DanC]
Zakim, agenda?
15:33:40 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
15:33:41 [Zakim]
6. 9 June comments from Oracle [from kendallclark]
15:33:42 [Zakim]
7. Action Items [from kendallclark]
15:33:43 [Zakim]
8. Note PFPS's outstanding comments [from kendallclark]
15:33:44 [Zakim]
9. Implementation Report [from kendallclark]
15:33:51 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:33:51 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "Action Items" taken up [from kendallclark]
15:35:39 [DanC]
KC leans toward a new issue rather than nestedOptionals
15:36:02 [EliasT]
Zakim, drop action
15:36:02 [Zakim]
sorry, EliasT, I do not see a party named 'action'
15:36:05 [kendallclark]
kendallclark has joined #dawg
15:36:19 [kendallclark]
zakim, agenda?
15:36:19 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
15:36:20 [Zakim]
7. Action Items [from kendallclark]
15:36:21 [Zakim]
8. Note PFPS's outstanding comments [from kendallclark]
15:36:23 [Zakim]
9. Implementation Report [from kendallclark]
15:36:25 [AndyS]
rrsagent, drop action
15:36:30 [EliasT]
ACTION: take up new issue concatenated nestedOptional
15:36:30 [kendallclark]
zakim, take up next action
15:36:30 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'take up next action', kendallclark
15:36:36 [AndyS]
rrsagent, drop action 4
15:36:36 [DanC]
ACTION 4 = KendallC to open an issue around optionals
15:36:37 [kendallclark]
zakim, take up next agendum
15:36:37 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "Note PFPS's outstanding comments" taken up [from kendallclark]
15:37:24 [DanC]
-> http://www.w3.org/mid/20060222.185654.133907622.pfps@research.bell-labs.com PFPS 22 Feb
15:38:27 [DanC]
[[
15:38:27 [DanC]
C2.38: This is very misleading. SPARQL matching does indeed restrict the bnode
15:38:27 [DanC]
in query results to be bnodes from the RDF graph, but not in a useful way. For
15:38:27 [DanC]
example,
15:38:27 [DanC]
?x ex:a ex:b .
15:38:28 [DanC]
matches against
15:38:30 [DanC]
_:a ex:a _:b .
15:38:32 [DanC]
with two results for ?x, at least as far as I can determine.
15:38:34 [DanC]
]]
15:39:15 [DanC]
ACTION DanC: review PFPS's comments for more test cases
15:39:28 [kendallclark]
ACTION EliasT: to turn C2.38 in PFPS's message into a test case
15:40:20 [kendallclark]
zakim, next agendum
15:40:20 [Zakim]
agendum 9. "Implementation Report" taken up [from kendallclark]
15:40:48 [DanC]
-> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/imp39 implementation report stub
15:41:04 [kendallclark]
Test suite, show coverage of language features by 2 or more implementations -- our CR exit criteria
15:42:07 [DanC]
q+ to note my favorite precedent: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/impls http://www.w3.org/2003/08/owl-systems/test-results-out
15:44:14 [SteveH]
things aren't too bad for me at the moment, I can do a bit on the tests
15:44:30 [SteveH]
zakim, unmute me
15:44:30 [Zakim]
SteveH should no longer be muted
15:44:55 [SteveH]
zakim, mute me
15:44:55 [Zakim]
SteveH should now be muted
15:45:24 [SteveH]
sure
15:45:27 [kendallclark]
q?
15:45:32 [kendallclark]
ack EliasT
15:45:32 [Zakim]
EliasT, you wanted to ask about how do I got about fixing some test cases: approved and not.
15:47:09 [DanC]
ack danc
15:47:09 [Zakim]
DanC, you wanted to note my favorite precedent: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/impls http://www.w3.org/2003/08/owl-systems/test-results-out
15:49:00 [DanC]
EARL - the Evaluation And Report Language http://www.w3.org/2001/03/earl/
15:49:07 [SteveH]
the test generator should use SPARQL too...
15:49:12 [SteveH]
*result generator
15:51:20 [DanC]
Zakim, pick a scribe
15:51:20 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose FredZ
15:51:30 [DanC]
Zakim, pick a scribe
15:51:30 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose DanC
15:51:37 [AndyS]
August 1.
15:53:01 [SteveH]
50/50
15:53:02 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to meet 27 Jun 14:30Z, DanC to scribe
15:53:19 [DanC]
so RESOLVED
15:53:31 [SteveH]
bye
15:53:33 [Zakim]
-EliasT
15:53:42 [EliasT]
rrsagent, please generate minutes
15:53:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-minutes.html EliasT
15:53:49 [Zakim]
-SteveH
15:57:49 [Zakim]
-Kendall_Clark
15:57:51 [Zakim]
-DanC
15:57:58 [Zakim]
-AndyS
15:58:04 [Zakim]
-FredZ
15:58:05 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
15:58:06 [Zakim]
Attendees were Kendall_Clark, AndyS, DanC, +1.650.372.aaaa, EliasT, FredZ, SteveH
15:58:27 [AndyS]
rrsagent, please draft the minutes
15:58:27 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'please draft the minutes', AndyS. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:58:39 [AndyS]
rrsagent, stop logging
15:58:39 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'stop logging', AndyS. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:59:29 [AndyS]
rrsagent, please leave us
15:59:29 [RRSAgent]
I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-actions.rdf :
15:59:29 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: EliasT to respond to Mark Baker's comments re: MIME type as we just resolved [1]
15:59:29 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-irc#T15-01-17
15:59:29 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: FredZ to to write an email w/ a test for the test suite re: { P1 } UNION { P2 } OPTIONAL { P3 } [2]
15:59:29 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-irc#T15-17-58
15:59:29 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: KendallClark to reopen punctuationSyntax to take up commas in SELECT clause. [3]
15:59:29 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-irc#T15-30-55
15:59:29 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: take up new issue concatenated nestedOptional [5]
15:59:29 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-irc#T15-36-30
15:59:29 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: DanC to review PFPS's comments for more test cases [6]
15:59:29 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-irc#T15-39-15
15:59:29 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: EliasT to to turn C2.38 in PFPS's message into a test case [7]
15:59:29 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-irc#T15-39-28
15:59:40 [AndyS]
zakim, please leave us
15:59:40 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'please leave us', AndyS
15:59:48 [AndyS]
zakim, please leave
15:59:48 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #dawg