14:28:51 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:28:52 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-irc
14:28:55 <kendallclark> zakim, this is DAWG
14:28:55 <Zakim> kendallclark, I see SW_DAWG()9:30AM in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be DAWG".
14:29:19 <kendallclark> shit
14:29:27 <kendallclark> i think i forgot to tell zakim about the new meeting time
14:29:33 <kendallclark> i wonder how badly that screws us?
14:30:07 <kendallclark> zakim, this will be DAWG
14:30:07 <Zakim> ok, kendallclark, I see SW_DAWG()9:30AM already started
14:30:42 <Zakim> +??P2
14:30:42 <kendallclark> ericP: you here?
14:30:48 <AndyS> zakim, ??P2 is me
14:30:48 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:31:00 <AndyS> EricP sent his regrets
14:32:28 <FredZ> FredZ has joined #dawg
14:32:33 <kendallclark> zakim, agenda+ convene, rollcall, recruit scribe, approve minutes
14:32:33 <Zakim> agendum 1 added
14:32:40 <Zakim> +Elias_Torres
14:32:42 <kendallclark> zakim, agenda+ Meetings in July
14:32:42 <Zakim> agendum 2 added
14:32:54 <EliasT> EliasT has joined #dawg
14:32:58 <kendallclark> zakim, agenda+ Review MIME Type registration & comments
14:32:58 <Zakim> agendum 3 added
14:33:10 <kendallclark> zakim, agenda+ Function namespace proposal
14:33:10 <Zakim> agendum 4 added
14:33:29 <kendallclark> zakim, agenda+ OPTIONALs
14:33:30 <Zakim> agendum 5 added
14:33:38 <EliasT> Meeting: Weekly DAWG Meeting
14:33:42 <ericP> EricP is in a f2f. DanC agreed to represent W3
14:33:43 <EliasT> Chair: kendallclark
14:33:47 <EliasT> Scribe: EliasT
14:33:50 <Zakim> +DanC
14:33:58 <EliasT> Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:33:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see Kendall_Clark, AndyS, Elias_Torres, DanC
14:34:01 <Zakim> + +1.650.372.aaaa
14:34:06 <EliasT> Zakim, Elias_Torres is me
14:34:06 <Zakim> +EliasT; got it
14:34:27 <kendallclark> zakim, agenda+ 9 June comments from Oracle
14:34:27 <Zakim> agendum 6 added
14:34:36 <kendallclark> zakim, agenda+ Action Items
14:34:36 <Zakim> agendum 7 added
14:34:57 <kendallclark> zakim, aaaa is FredZ
14:34:57 <Zakim> +FredZ; got it
14:35:04 <kendallclark> DanC: thanks
14:35:17 <kendallclark> DanC: can you remind me of the email address to which I should send email about schedule changes?
14:36:01 <kendallclark> SteveH: are you there?
14:36:19 <SteveH> kendallclark, aye, sorry, didnt relaise what the time was
14:36:27 <kendallclark> are you calling in today?
14:36:31 <SteveH> will be online shortly
14:36:59 <DanC> q+ to note comments from PFPS still pending
14:37:12 <kendallclark> uri?
14:37:22 <Zakim> +??P16
14:37:27 <SteveH> Zakim, P16 is me
14:37:27 <Zakim> sorry, SteveH, I do not recognize a party named 'P16'
14:37:33 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P16 is me
14:37:33 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
14:38:01 <EliasT> any regrets?
14:38:05 <kendallclark> zakim, who's on the phone
14:38:05 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's on the phone', kendallclark
14:38:12 <kendallclark> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:38:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see Kendall_Clark, AndyS, EliasT, DanC, FredZ, SteveH
14:38:21 <DanC> comments from PFPS 22 Feb http://www.w3.org/mid/20060222.185654.133907622.pfps@research.bell-labs.com , noted in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/crq349#obj
14:38:58 <kendallclark> zakim, agenda+ Note PFPS's outstanding comments
14:38:58 <Zakim> agendum 8 added
14:39:04 <EliasT> Regrets: ericP, LeeF, libby
14:41:01 <kendallclark> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0162.html
14:42:55 <kendallclark> Amended, thus: Present: KendallC, AFS, EricP, FredZ, PatH, EliasT, LeeF
14:43:11 <kendallclark> Possibly partial list of attendees 
14:43:55 <AndyS> Poss AOBs: Test suite? Other implementations for CR?
14:48:30 <kendallclark> kendallclark has joined #dawg
14:48:36 <kendallclark> argh, lost network...
14:49:45 <EliasT> FredZ: When does the group think we'll finish?
14:50:10 <EliasT> DanC: We are dependent on XQuery and that's not finished.
14:51:32 <EliasT> kendallclark: After July holidays, he'll be responsible to announce if there's a chance to conclude by November.
14:51:47 <kendallclark> zakim, next agendum
14:51:47 <Zakim> agendum 1. "convene, rollcall, recruit scribe, approve minutes" taken up [from kendallclark]
14:53:15 <DanC> (sounds like Andy is asking to discuss the implementation report http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/imp39 )
14:54:12 <kendallclark> zakim, agenda+ Implementation Report
14:54:12 <Zakim> agendum 9 added
14:54:52 <DanC> Zakim, close item 1
14:54:52 <Zakim> agendum 1, convene, rollcall, recruit scribe, approve minutes, closed
14:54:53 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:54:55 <Zakim> 2. Meetings in July [from kendallclark]
14:54:56 <DanC> Zakim, take up item 2
14:54:56 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Meetings in July" taken up [from kendallclark]
14:55:11 <DanC> Zakim, take up item 3
14:55:11 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Review MIME Type registration & comments" taken up [from kendallclark]
14:55:17 <kendallclark> thanks
14:55:23 <DanC> Zakim, close item 2
14:55:23 <Zakim> agendum 2, Meetings in July, closed
14:55:24 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:55:25 <Zakim> 3. Review MIME Type registration & comments [from kendallclark]
14:56:05 <DanC> q+ to note app/xml doesn't distinguish RDF/XML from sparql-results
14:58:05 <kendallclark> zakim, mute me
14:58:05 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should now be muted
14:58:15 <kendallclark> zakim, unmute me
14:58:15 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
14:58:22 <EliasT> +xml
14:59:55 <DanC> PROPOSED: to justify the json mime type by noting that JSON might be used to serialized RDF abstract syntax, so app/json doesn't distinguish the results format
15:00:22 <DanC> PROPOSED: to justify the json results mime type by noting that JSON might be used to serialized RDF abstract syntax, so app/json doesn't distinguish the results format
15:00:30 <EliasT> AndyS: reminds us that a possible JSON RDF Graph encoding convention that would sparql-results+json format.
15:00:50 <kendallclark> RESOLVED
15:00:59 <EliasT> EliasT: seconds.
15:01:17 <kendallclark> ACTION: EliasT to respond to Mark Baker's comments re: MIME type as we just resolved
15:02:29 <kendallclark> zakim, next agendum
15:02:29 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Function namespace proposal" taken up [from kendallclark]
15:02:33 <EliasT> http://dowhatimean.net/2006/05/rdfjson
15:02:50 <EliasT> -> RDF/JSON using SPARQL REsults Format in JSON for Graph encoding.
15:03:14 <kendallclark> zakim, next agendum
15:03:14 <Zakim> agendum 4 was just opened, kendallclark
15:03:19 <kendallclark> zakim, close agendum 3
15:03:19 <Zakim> agendum 3, Review MIME Type registration & comments, closed
15:03:20 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:03:21 <kendallclark> zakim, next agendum
15:03:22 <Zakim> 4. Function namespace proposal [from kendallclark]
15:03:23 <Zakim> agendum 4 was just opened, kendallclark
15:03:29 <DanC> Zakim, close item 4
15:03:29 <Zakim> agendum 4, Function namespace proposal, closed
15:03:30 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:03:31 <Zakim> 5. OPTIONALs [from kendallclark]
15:03:42 <DanC> Zakim, take up item 5
15:03:42 <Zakim> agendum 5. "OPTIONALs" taken up [from kendallclark]
15:04:27 <EliasT> kendallclark: Looking for status from OPTIONALS discussion between FredZ, PatH, ericP and others.
15:06:28 <EliasT> FredZ: I have been having a private discussion with PatH, ericP and AndyS
15:06:51 <EliasT> KendallClark: I would like more of the traffic in the public mailing list to be able to track it better.
15:07:28 <SteveH> zakim, mute me
15:07:28 <Zakim> SteveH should now be muted
15:09:00 <EliasT> AndyS: He's not proposing changing semantics in CR
15:09:12 <EliasT> ... looking more for editorial at the moment.
15:09:30 <EliasT> FredZ: You have seen my comments, what do you think?
15:09:41 <EliasT> AndyS: I find the grammar fixes/tweaks to be ok.
15:10:00 <EliasT> ... we need to fix bnodes, blank nodes, blank labels.
15:10:09 <EliasT> ... but I need to go more through your comments first.
15:10:11 <kendallclark> Tying things *more* closely to the grammar though is at cross-purposes w/ the comments about semantics from the guys at Pontifical U in Chile, though -- I think...
15:11:07 <DanC> q+ to think out loud about the explicit mapping from grammar to semantics
15:12:05 <kendallclark> Isn't that thrust in conflict with:
15:12:06 <kendallclark> 1) The evaluation process of a language should be directed by a
15:12:06 <kendallclark>    clear semantics and not by the language grammar 
15:12:06 <kendallclark> (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2006Apr/0023.html).
15:12:06 <EliasT> DanC: We currently don't specify some connections between the semantics and the grammar.
15:13:08 <EliasT> FredZ, can you please type this?
15:13:15 <DanC> { P1 } UNION { P2 } OPTIONAL { P3 }
15:14:18 <kendallclark> q?
15:14:45 <kendallclark> ack DanC
15:14:45 <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to note app/xml doesn't distinguish RDF/XML from sparql-results and to think out loud about the explicit mapping from grammar to semantics
15:14:46 <EliasT> AndyS: We can add references to grammar rules in the definition sections to explicitly state the connection and hope that our users can benefit from that.
15:15:33 <kendallclark> Steve?
15:15:38 <SteveH> yes, im following, but I implement OPTIONAL as prefix, not infeix
15:15:43 <SteveH> (bug)
15:15:50 <SteveH> zakim, unmute me
15:15:50 <Zakim> SteveH should no longer be muted
15:17:08 <EliasT> q+ A commenter sent some patches for test, some are for approved tests, some aren't. How do I proceed making changes? Or will SteveH do it?
15:17:13 <SteveH> steve.harris@garlik.com
15:17:58 <kendallclark> ACTION FredZ: to write an email w/ a test for the test suite re: { P1 } UNION { P2 } OPTIONAL { P3 }
15:18:46 <AndyS> c.f. http://sparql.org/validator.html
15:19:05 <kendallclark> zakim, next agendum
15:19:05 <Zakim> agendum 6. "9 June comments from Oracle" taken up [from kendallclark]
15:19:48 <EliasT> q+ to ask about how do I got about fixing some test cases: approved and not.
15:20:10 <DanC> q+ to note relationships between Oracle 9 Jun stuff and issues
15:22:06 <kendallclark> ack DanC
15:22:06 <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to note relationships between Oracle 9 Jun stuff and issues
15:22:40 <SteveH> zakim, mute me
15:22:40 <Zakim> SteveH should now be muted
15:23:09 <DanC> an open issue is a promise to make a decision. http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues
15:27:51 <DanC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0117.html
15:27:57 <DanC> comment on A.7 "Grammar"
15:30:55 <EliasT> ACTION: KendallClark to reopen punctuationSyntax to take up commas in SELECT clause.
15:31:52 <DanC> I suggest KC think about marking http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#nestedOptionals re-opened
15:31:53 <kendallclark> a prerogative I'm largely scared of :)
15:32:30 <kendallclark> danc: based on which message, please?
15:32:51 <DanC> well, based on today's agenda, for example, and the question you asked to SteveH
15:33:02 <kendallclark> yep, fair enough...
15:33:12 <kendallclark> ACTION: KendallC to reopen nestedOptionals
15:33:25 <DanC> I could probably find 3 to 6 public-dawg-comments messages on optionals
15:33:40 <DanC> Zakim, agenda?
15:33:40 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
15:33:41 <Zakim> 6. 9 June comments from Oracle [from kendallclark]
15:33:42 <Zakim> 7. Action Items [from kendallclark]
15:33:43 <Zakim> 8. Note PFPS's outstanding comments [from kendallclark]
15:33:44 <Zakim> 9. Implementation Report [from kendallclark]
15:33:51 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:33:51 <Zakim> agendum 7. "Action Items" taken up [from kendallclark]
15:35:39 <DanC> KC leans toward a new issue rather than nestedOptionals
15:36:02 <EliasT> Zakim, drop action
15:36:02 <Zakim> sorry, EliasT, I do not see a party named 'action'
15:36:05 <kendallclark> kendallclark has joined #dawg
15:36:19 <kendallclark> zakim, agenda?
15:36:19 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
15:36:20 <Zakim> 7. Action Items [from kendallclark]
15:36:21 <Zakim> 8. Note PFPS's outstanding comments [from kendallclark]
15:36:23 <Zakim> 9. Implementation Report [from kendallclark]
15:36:25 <AndyS> rrsagent, drop action 
15:36:30 <EliasT> ACTION: take up new issue concatenated nestedOptional
15:36:30 <kendallclark> zakim, take up next action
15:36:30 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up next action', kendallclark
15:36:36 <AndyS> rrsagent, drop action 4
15:36:36 <DanC> ACTION 4 = KendallC to open an issue around optionals
15:36:37 <kendallclark> zakim, take up next agendum
15:36:37 <Zakim> agendum 8. "Note PFPS's outstanding comments" taken up [from kendallclark]
15:37:24 <DanC> -> http://www.w3.org/mid/20060222.185654.133907622.pfps@research.bell-labs.com PFPS 22 Feb
15:38:27 <DanC> [[
15:38:27 <DanC> C2.38: This is very misleading.  SPARQL matching does indeed restrict the bnode
15:38:27 <DanC> in query results to be bnodes from the RDF graph, but not in a useful way.  For
15:38:27 <DanC> example,
15:38:27 <DanC>   ?x ex:a ex:b .
15:38:28 <DanC> matches against
15:38:30 <DanC>   _:a ex:a _:b .
15:38:32 <DanC> with two results for ?x, at least as far as I can determine.
15:38:34 <DanC> ]]
15:39:15 <DanC> ACTION DanC: review PFPS's comments for more test cases
15:39:28 <kendallclark> ACTION EliasT: to turn C2.38 in PFPS's message into a test case
15:40:20 <kendallclark> zakim, next agendum
15:40:20 <Zakim> agendum 9. "Implementation Report" taken up [from kendallclark]
15:40:48 <DanC> -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/imp39 implementation report stub
15:41:04 <kendallclark> Test suite, show coverage of language features by 2 or more implementations -- our CR exit criteria
15:42:07 <DanC> q+ to note my favorite precedent: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/impls http://www.w3.org/2003/08/owl-systems/test-results-out
15:44:14 <SteveH> things aren't too bad for me at the moment, I can do a bit on the tests
15:44:30 <SteveH> zakim, unmute me
15:44:30 <Zakim> SteveH should no longer be muted
15:44:55 <SteveH> zakim, mute me
15:44:55 <Zakim> SteveH should now be muted
15:45:24 <SteveH> sure
15:45:27 <kendallclark> q?
15:45:32 <kendallclark> ack EliasT
15:45:32 <Zakim> EliasT, you wanted to ask about how do I got about fixing some test cases: approved and not.
15:47:09 <DanC> ack danc
15:47:09 <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to note my favorite precedent: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/impls http://www.w3.org/2003/08/owl-systems/test-results-out
15:49:00 <DanC> EARL - the Evaluation And Report Language http://www.w3.org/2001/03/earl/
15:49:07 <SteveH> the test generator should use SPARQL too...
15:49:12 <SteveH> *result generator
15:51:20 <DanC> Zakim, pick a scribe
15:51:20 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose FredZ
15:51:30 <DanC> Zakim, pick a scribe
15:51:30 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose DanC
15:51:37 <AndyS> August 1.
15:53:01 <SteveH> 50/50
15:53:02 <DanC> PROPOSED: to meet 27 Jun 14:30Z, DanC to scribe
15:53:19 <DanC> so RESOLVED
15:53:31 <SteveH> bye
15:53:33 <Zakim> -EliasT
15:53:42 <EliasT> rrsagent, please generate minutes
15:53:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-minutes.html EliasT
15:53:49 <Zakim> -SteveH
15:57:49 <Zakim> -Kendall_Clark
15:57:51 <Zakim> -DanC
15:57:58 <Zakim> -AndyS
15:58:04 <Zakim> -FredZ
15:58:05 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
15:58:06 <Zakim> Attendees were Kendall_Clark, AndyS, DanC, +1.650.372.aaaa, EliasT, FredZ, SteveH
15:58:27 <AndyS> rrsagent, please draft the minutes
15:58:27 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'please draft the minutes', AndyS.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:58:39 <AndyS> rrsagent, stop logging
15:58:39 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'stop logging', AndyS.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:59:29 <AndyS> rrsagent, please leave us
15:59:29 <RRSAgent> I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-actions.rdf :
15:59:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: EliasT to respond to Mark Baker's comments re: MIME type as we just resolved [1]
15:59:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-irc#T15-01-17
15:59:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: FredZ to to write an email w/ a test for the test suite re: { P1 } UNION { P2 } OPTIONAL { P3 } [2]
15:59:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-irc#T15-17-58
15:59:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: KendallClark to reopen punctuationSyntax to take up commas in SELECT clause. [3]
15:59:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-irc#T15-30-55
15:59:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: take up new issue concatenated nestedOptional [5]
15:59:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-irc#T15-36-30
15:59:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DanC to review PFPS's comments for more test cases [6]
15:59:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-irc#T15-39-15
15:59:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: EliasT to to turn C2.38 in PFPS's message into a test case [7]
15:59:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/20-dawg-irc#T15-39-28
15:59:40 <AndyS> zakim, please leave us
15:59:40 <Zakim> I don't understand 'please leave us', AndyS
15:59:48 <AndyS> zakim, please leave
15:59:48 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dawg