17:44:35 RRSAgent has joined #ua 17:44:35 logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/06/15-ua-irc 17:44:48 zakim, this will be wai_u 17:44:48 ok, jallan; I see WAI_UAWG()2:00PM scheduled to start in 16 minutes 17:45:14 title: User Agent Teleconference for 15 June 2006 17:45:21 Chair: Jim Allan 17:59:26 JR has joined #ua 18:00:26 hi Jim - have you set up? 18:00:47 yes 18:01:01 WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has now started 18:01:08 +Jim_Allan 18:02:13 oops important phone call- I'll be there in a few mins 18:02:22 +[IBM] 18:03:04 parente has joined #ua 18:10:12 agenda+discuss review pf UAAG techniques for Guidelines 1 & 2 for currency and 18:10:12 relevance. 18:10:34 zakim, take up agendum 1 18:10:34 agendum 1. "discuss review pf UAAG techniques for Guidelines 1 & 2 for currency and" taken up [from jallan] 18:10:55 topic: discuss review pf UAAG techniques for Guidelines 1 & 2 for currency and 18:10:55 relevance. 18:11:25 +[IPcaller] 18:11:25 Discuss CP 1.2 activate event handlers 18:12:39 JA: In all example techs we ref the DOM2..Cathy saying we should ref DOM 3... 18:13:02 JA: Also thinking we should ref the Mac and Linux versions... 18:13:58 PP: Linux - software uses ATK 18:14:27 PP: Browser point of view is ATK 18:14:36 JA: MSAA like ATK? 18:15:22 PP: Not totally sure ... but thinks MSAA provides both... 18:15:38 PP: Assistive tech side is called: ATSPI 18:15:43 Assistive tech interfaces with ATSPI on Linux 18:16:17 JA: So we should fix DOM techs and add at least the linux 18:17:20 gnome API, eclipse API, Mac OSX - carbon & cocoa 18:17:39 all are accessibility APS for different platforms (OS) 18:18:31 Eclispse is a toolkit. 18:19:07 PP: Eclipse unlikely to be something a browser would run on 18:20:08 JA: What about knowing that handlers exist before being able to activate... 18:20:27 JA: Think we need to add a mention of this 18:20:56 JA: Sound reasonable? 18:21:39 JA: Maybe let's do a longer search 18:23:17 JA: Watching WCAG group using bugzilla... 18:25:27 JR: Explains a bit about bugzilla, wiki, some auwg email practices 18:25:45 Topic: Cathy's comment concerning 1.3 18:25:59 "Under 1.3 Provide text messages, we need to add a technique about allowing 18:25:59 non-essential alerts and text messages to be optional (turned off by the 18:25:59 user if desired). 18:26:00 " 18:26:36 What is a non-essential alert? How is the UA to 18:26:36 determine what is essential? 18:27:45 PP: ex. firefox pops up alert that a pop-up has been blocked... 18:28:07 PP: user can then config whether thy consider that essential. 18:28:44 Jan: javascript error 18:29:14 JA: Would consider pop-up blocking emsg essential 18:29:24 jan: the page doesn't break, to the user the page looks fine, is that non-essential? 18:29:49 PP: She may also have been referring to popups by the content... 18:30:00 javascript error reporting is configurable in IE 18:30:01 PP: but can't know importance without metadata 18:31:54 PP: This checkpoint does also cover content interface msgs 18:32:59 JA: reading...user interface controls covers user interface and content interface. 18:34:10 JA: Actually thinks CP 1.3 only covers the user interface (not the content interface) 18:35:04 JA: Will this apply to user interfaces of extensions. 18:36:43 if a quicktime player is an object in a player, are its controls part of the chrome. 18:36:55 Jan: I think yes. 18:37:17 JA: It gets fuzzy... 18:37:39 JA: WHen you start or stop it like a link but there are additional controls 18:38:15 brb 18:39:05 back 18:39:37 PP: Treating it like chrome but not sure. 18:40:35 who decides what something looks like? 18:41:14 in a web page, the UA controls the rendering. but within an object it has it's own style. 18:41:29 Jan: so it is not the same type of content. 18:41:46 seems more like compound document. 18:42:12 JA: Because there is external application inside 18:43:15 JA: When you TAB in and give it focus the UA doesn't know about it 18:43:57 JA: DOM isn't changed by the contained app 18:44:19 JA: Essentially we are talking about embeeded ua 18:45:03 PP: Flash - in firefox - proxies the flash to the flash app. Looks like the containing browser. 18:45:53 JA: In IE, Flash talks to MSAA, the browser stands back. 18:46:37 +[IBM.a] 18:46:54 JA: When you are inside one of those embedded tools you are inside another UA and the rules apply to it. 18:47:00 cklaws has joined #ua 18:48:15 CL: They are completely separate UA's 18:48:51 CL: Launching user agent doesn't understand the content - just knows it exists 18:49:19 JA: So embedded one should still follow 1.3. 18:49:43 CL: New WCAG req to turn off non-essential alerts. 18:50:10 CL: UAAG lacks mention of turning on or off msgs. 18:50:36 JAL Gives javascript error example. 18:51:26 CL: Right - this CP refers to the user interface not the content interface 18:52:25 JA: We just say if there is an alert it needs a text msg - and in back we say configure everything... 18:53:01 CL: We also don't ask for any alerts. 18:53:11 JA: THat may be hairy. 18:53:29 CL:May need them for mutation events when content changes 18:53:48 CL: referring to CP 2.1 18:54:37 JA: is this where we need to expand for AJAX 18:54:48 JA: Don't want to go there yet 18:55:04 ...to change guidelines. 18:55:52 CL: THere's also all sorts of programmatic access things. 18:57:11 JA: Under 2.1 we prob need to add some techs related to mutation events in DHTML 18:58:00 Action CL: Will look a bit more into techs to add to 2.1 for DHTML mutation events 18:59:42 JA: Brings CL up to date on some earlier discussion. 19:00:07 CL: We should at least point to specs of IDL's (Interface Defintion Languages) 19:01:09 JA: Next time we need to thrash on these some more on GL 2. Let's send to list and discuss on call. 19:01:58 PP: Won't be here next wk. CL not here the next wk after that. 19:02:37 -[IBM] 19:02:38 -[IBM.a] 19:02:45 RRSAgent, make minutes 19:02:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/06/15-ua-minutes.html JR 19:02:45 -Jim_Allan 19:02:52 RRSAgent, set logs public 19:02:59 Zakim, bye 19:02:59 leaving. As of this point the attendees were Jim_Allan, [IBM], [IPcaller] 19:02:59 Zakim has left #ua 19:03:06 RRSAgent, bye 19:03:06 I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/15-ua-actions.rdf : 19:03:06 ACTION: CL to Will look a bit more into techs to add to 2.1 for DHTML mutation events [1] 19:03:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/15-ua-irc#T18-58-00