14:00:58 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18ncore
14:00:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-irc
14:01:01 <fsasaki> meeting: i18n core working group
14:01:06 <fsasaki> chair: Francois
14:01:10 <fsasaki> scribe: Felix
14:01:13 <r12a> r12a has joined #i18ncore
14:01:17 <fsasaki> scribeNick: fsasaki
14:01:21 <r12a> zakim, dial richard
14:01:21 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
14:01:22 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM has now started
14:01:23 <Zakim> +Richard
14:01:41 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Jun/0011.html
14:01:48 <Zakim> +Felix
14:02:00 <fyergeau> fyergeau has joined #i18ncore
14:02:16 <Zakim> +[IBM]
14:02:34 <fyergeau_> fyergeau_ has joined #i18ncore
14:02:52 <fsasaki> me rrsagent, make log public
14:03:14 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:03:19 <fyergeau_> zakim, [ is fyergeau
14:03:19 <Zakim> +fyergeau; got it
14:04:29 <fyergeau_> zakim, who is here?
14:04:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see Richard, Felix, Mary, fyergeau
14:04:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see fyergeau_, fyergeau, r12a, RRSAgent, Zakim, fsasaki
14:05:40 <fsasaki> topic: action items
14:06:03 <fsasaki> action: Felix to find out how we should handle ws-i18n "policy" now, with the policy wg (ONGOING)
14:06:22 <Zakim> +Karunesh_Arora
14:06:57 <fsasaki> action: Richard (if you want): Report on SSML workshop, and WWW 2006 (DONE)
14:07:21 <fsasaki> Richard: not much left to say
14:07:34 <fsasaki> Francois: nothing ground breaking?
14:07:49 <fsasaki> Richard: the composite message scenario for SSML?
14:08:06 <fsasaki> .. we thought about SSML in two contexts:
14:08:30 <fsasaki> .. handcrafting a text, putting things into it, then an SSML processor works with it
14:08:39 <fsasaki> .. that scenario is e.g. for a telephone prompt
14:08:46 <fsasaki> .. a different scenario might be a news read
14:08:56 <fsasaki> .. where you read news e.g. for a data base
14:09:12 <fsasaki> .. in that case you will not do any special tweaks of low level attributes / elements
14:09:31 <fsasaki> .. at the SSML workshop, there was a third scenario: you get some information from the DB
14:09:32 <karora> karora has joined #i18Ncore
14:09:50 <fsasaki> .. e.g. you get the date from the DB in "the date is ..."
14:10:02 <fsasaki> .. or "the total number of pages printed is ..."
14:10:13 <fsasaki> .. if you say "we printed seven pages"
14:10:28 <fsasaki> .. that would be difficult for languages with high inflection
14:10:56 <fsasaki> .. all the rules on composite messages I wrote recently in an article apply in that case
14:11:08 <fsasaki> .. we have to see what the implemencations will be
14:11:22 <fsasaki> Francois: interesting. Is there an allowance for variables in SSML?
14:11:42 <fsasaki> Richard: that is up to you, SSML has no specific facility for that
14:11:54 <fsasaki> .. but some Greek people did that
14:12:21 <fsasaki> Francois: so the SSML processor gets just plain SSML, but a different processor does the rest?
14:12:24 <fsasaki> Richard: yes
14:12:38 <fsasaki> .. e.g. you could use the say-as element
14:12:49 <fsasaki> .. you can have that as part of a template for your sentence
14:13:11 <fsasaki> .. but that would not be so easy with e.g. news feeds, because you first would need to identify e.g. ordinal numbers
14:13:27 <fsasaki> Francois: any conclusion for the workshop?
14:13:38 <fsasaki> topic: SSML i18n workshop report (by Richard)
14:13:53 <fsasaki> Richard: we gathered requirements
14:13:59 <fsasaki> .. there will be a summary
14:14:17 <fsasaki> .. there might be another workshop
14:14:29 <fsasaki> .. these guys are kean on i18n
14:14:43 <fsasaki> .. they want more people more Indian e.g.
14:15:56 <fsasaki> Felix: would ITS be a place to describe such constraints as with the variable stuff?
14:16:03 <fsasaki> Richard: don't know, maybe in ITS
14:16:12 <fsasaki> topic: Workshop in India
14:16:24 <fsasaki> Richard: on the 2nd and 3rd of August
14:16:38 <fsasaki> .. a workshop with strong interest in speech
14:17:04 <fsasaki> .. maybe people from the voice browser wg
14:17:16 <fsasaki> .. Felix might be able to participate as well
14:17:26 <fsasaki> Felix: I will make that clear ASAP
14:17:33 <fsasaki> Francois: organized by the Indian office?
14:17:35 <fsasaki> Richard: yes
14:17:47 <fsasaki> topic: action items (part 2)
14:18:00 <fsasaki> action: all to look at charmod resid test suite and gather feedback (PENDING)
14:18:12 <fsasaki> action: Francois to build a current issues list on charmod norm (PENDING)
14:18:22 <fsasaki> action: Mary to review http://www.w3.org/TR/its/ after 18 May before 30 June (PENDING)
14:18:31 <fsasaki> action: Mary will make the updates discussed in Mandelieu on ws-i18n (PENDING)
14:18:42 <fsasaki> action: Richard to create a wiki on "first letter", post a blog and write a mail to the Unicode list about it (PENDING)
14:19:17 <fsasaki> topic: discussion of http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Jun/0009.html comments on intput mode
14:19:49 <fsasaki> Richard: I already got a response from Martin, he felt he could deal with this
14:20:12 <fsasaki> .. I don't think there is s.t. specific at this time, Steven just wants somebody to talk to
14:20:29 <fsasaki> Martins mail: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Jun/0012.html
14:21:08 <fsasaki> Richard: there is a specific issue, and Martin has responded already
14:22:12 <fsasaki> action: Everybody to look at input mode discussion, see Martin's mail at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Jun/0012.html
14:22:21 <fsasaki> topic: compound doc issue
14:22:36 <fyergeau_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Jun/0010.html
14:24:09 <fsasaki> Richard: accessibility people have raised the same issue as we did about compound documents
14:24:38 <fsasaki> Francois: We tried, CDF refused
14:37:33 <fsasaki> Felix: coming from an ITS perspective and the problems we have with the conref mechanism, I tend to agree with the CDF people
14:38:12 <fsasaki> Richard: people might want to use this stuff
14:38:30 <fsasaki> Francois: CDF people say the stuff would be like standalone
14:39:05 <fsasaki> .. I am still worried that people create compound documents with images
14:39:31 <fsasaki> Richard: we should get it in the i18n BP document
14:39:48 <fsasaki> Felix: Yves said he will take care of that
14:40:16 <fsasaki> Richard: we talk about documents included by reference
14:40:28 <fsasaki> .. if the SVG is included in the HTML file, what do we say?
14:40:40 <fsasaki> Francois: in that case, the xml:lang will apply
14:41:27 <fsasaki> .. from the case of accessibility, we could say "we tried with CDF, they pushed back"
14:41:35 <fsasaki> .. accessiblity might be stronger
14:41:52 <fsasaki> Richard: but the same theory applies
14:42:10 <fsasaki> .. if we agree with CDF, we should go back to accessibility like that as well
14:42:18 <fsasaki> .. and people should be educated
14:42:58 <fsasaki> .. to use language information in every included piece
14:43:57 <fsasaki> action: Richard to reply to accessibility people about CDF issue
14:44:06 <fsasaki> Richard: we should also say:
14:44:13 <r12a> that the referenced document would be handled as if it were read on its own
14:44:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-minutes.html fsasaki
14:45:01 <fsasaki> topic: two possible approaches to LTLI
14:45:07 <fsasaki> see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2006AprJun/0073.html
14:48:23 <fsasaki> Francois: Did Mark make some recommendations?
14:48:41 <fsasaki> Felix: he proposed to built locale identifiers on top of RFC 3066bis
14:49:45 <fsasaki> Francois: I think that matches current practice more closlely than the other solution (i.e. having locale and language totally separated)
14:49:57 <fsasaki> Richard: what are we dealing with here? E.g. collations?
14:50:48 <fsasaki> Francois: what a locale is depends very much on the application area
14:51:07 <fsasaki> Felix: what notion fits to ws i18n?
14:51:17 <fsasaki> Mary: depends also on application
14:54:00 <fsasaki> discussion on various notions of locale
14:55:38 <fsasaki> topic: rechartering preparation - any news?
14:55:55 <fsasaki> Richard: no news yet.
14:56:46 <fsasaki> topic: other business?
14:56:53 <fsasaki> Francois: not here next week
14:57:32 <fsasaki> Richard: let's have a call
14:57:52 <fsasaki> .. at some time, we should go through some concepts of RFC 3066bis
14:58:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-minutes.html fsasaki
14:58:45 <Zakim> -fyergeau
14:58:47 <Zakim> -Felix
14:58:49 <Zakim> -Mary
14:58:50 <Zakim> -Richard
14:58:51 <fsasaki> Francois: please tackle ITS if possible next week
14:58:59 <fsasaki> Mary: will do
14:59:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-minutes.html fsasaki
14:59:38 <Zakim> -Karunesh_Arora
14:59:40 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM has ended
14:59:41 <Zakim> Attendees were Richard, Felix, [IBM], Mary, [IPcaller], fyergeau, Karunesh_Arora
14:59:46 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18ncore
15:03:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-minutes.html fsasaki
15:04:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-minutes.html fsasaki
15:50:20 <r12a> r12a has left #i18ncore
16:32:35 <fsasaki> rrsagent, bye
16:32:35 <RRSAgent> I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-actions.rdf :
16:32:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Felix to find out how we should handle ws-i18n "policy" now, with the policy wg (ONGOING) [1]
16:32:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-irc#T14-06-03
16:32:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Richard (if you want): Report on SSML workshop, and WWW 2006 (DONE) [2]
16:32:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-irc#T14-06-57
16:32:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: all to look at charmod resid test suite and gather feedback (PENDING) [3]
16:32:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-irc#T14-18-00
16:32:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Francois to build a current issues list on charmod norm (PENDING) [4]
16:32:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-irc#T14-18-12
16:32:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mary to review http://www.w3.org/TR/its/ after 18 May before 30 June (PENDING) [5]
16:32:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-irc#T14-18-22
16:32:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mary will make the updates discussed in Mandelieu on ws-i18n (PENDING) [6]
16:32:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-irc#T14-18-31
16:32:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Richard to create a wiki on "first letter", post a blog and write a mail to the Unicode list about it (PENDING) [7]
16:32:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-irc#T14-18-42
16:32:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Everybody to look at input mode discussion, see Martin's mail at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Jun/0012.html [8]
16:32:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-irc#T14-22-12
16:32:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Richard to reply to accessibility people about CDF issue [9]
16:32:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-irc#T14-43-57
16:32:42 <fsasaki> fsasaki has left #i18ncore