13:18:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
13:18:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/06/06-dawg-irc
13:18:21 <kendallclark> zakim, what conferences?
13:18:21 <Zakim> I see no active conferences
13:18:22 <Zakim> scheduled at this time is VB_VBPAG()9:00AM
13:18:39 <kendallclark> zakim, this will be DAWG
13:18:39 <Zakim> ok, kendallclark; I see SW_DAWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
13:21:38 <kendallclark> agenda+ convene, take role, approve last meeting's minutes
13:21:40 <LeeF> LeeF has joined #dawg
13:21:45 <kendallclark> agenda+ track action items
13:22:05 <kendallclark> agenda+ Semantics and complexity of SPARQL
13:22:07 <LeeF> dangnabbit
13:22:15 <kendallclark> agenda+ Namespace of builtin functions?
13:22:15 <LeeF> tricksy spacebar
13:22:34 <kendallclark> agenda+ Patel-Schneider's LC comments
13:22:55 <kendallclark> agenda+ Next meeting when?
13:29:34 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()9:30AM has now started
13:29:41 <Zakim> +??P0
13:29:43 <AndyS> zakim, ??P0 is me
13:29:43 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
13:30:10 <Zakim> +Kendall_Clark
13:30:53 <Zakim> + +1.650.372.aaaa
13:31:00 <Zakim> +Elias_Torres
13:31:42 <Zakim> +ericP
13:34:04 <patH> patH has joined #dawg
13:34:42 <Zakim> +PatH
13:34:46 <kendallclark> zakim, who's on the phone?
13:34:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, Kendall_Clark, +1.650.372.aaaa, Elias_Torres, ericP, PatH
13:34:55 <kendallclark> aaaa is FredZ
13:34:59 <kendallclark> zakim, aaaa is FredZ
13:34:59 <Zakim> +FredZ; got it
13:35:13 <ericP> regrets: libby
13:35:37 <kendallclark> Scribe: ericP
13:35:47 <ericP> scribe: Elias
13:35:48 <kendallclark> scribe: EliasT
13:36:38 <ericP> chair: KendallC
13:36:38 <Zakim> -Elias_Torres
13:36:49 <LeeF> Zakim, what's the phone number?
13:36:49 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, LeeF.
13:36:55 <LeeF> zakim, call info?
13:36:55 <Zakim> I am sorry, LeeF; I do not know a number for info?
13:36:55 <kendallclark> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0102.html
13:37:04 <AndyS> +1 617 761 6200
13:37:12 <Fred> Fred has joined #dawg
13:37:13 <AndyS> then 7333#
13:37:17 <kendallclark> code: 7333#
13:37:29 <Zakim> +[IBMCambridge]
13:37:41 <LeeF> zakim, IBMCambridge is me
13:37:41 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it
13:39:09 <AndyS> CR exit process? Has anything moved on since the CR request?
13:40:20 <kendallclark> zakim, pick a scribe?
13:40:20 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, kendallclark.
13:40:22 <kendallclark> zakim, pick a scribe
13:40:22 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose FredZ
13:40:36 <Zakim> +[IBMCambridge]
13:40:44 <EliasT> EliasT has joined #dawg
13:41:15 <ericP> next meeting: same bat time, same bat channel scribe: FredZ
13:41:16 <EliasT> Scribe: EliasT
13:41:21 <EliasT> Zakim, who's on the phone?
13:41:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, Kendall_Clark, FredZ, ericP, PatH, LeeF, [IBMCambridge]
13:41:26 <EliasT> Zakim, IBMCambridge is me
13:41:26 <Zakim> +EliasT; got it
13:41:44 <AndyS> The other bot is RRSAgent which tracks actions and makes the log
13:41:53 <EliasT> Meeting: DAWG Weekly Meeting
13:42:01 <EliasT> Chair: kendallclark
13:42:34 <ericP> KendallC: [introducing the FredZ to scribing technique] record any decisions
13:42:55 <ericP> ... best effort to record what people say
13:43:14 <EliasT> FredZ, http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html
13:43:30 <EliasT> FredZ, http://www.w3.org/2002/03/RRSAgent
13:43:41 <ericP> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0102 last working meeting
13:44:02 <ericP> RESOLVED: accept last working group meeting record as a true record
13:45:25 <kendallclark> zakim, next agendum
13:45:25 <Zakim> agendum 1. "convene, take role, approve last meeting's minutes" taken up [from kendallclark]
13:45:33 <kendallclark> zakim, take up 2
13:45:33 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up 2', kendallclark
13:45:41 <kendallclark> zakim, next agendum
13:45:41 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, kendallclark
13:45:50 <kendallclark> zakim, close agendum 1
13:45:50 <Zakim> agendum 1, convene, take role, approve last meeting's minutes, closed
13:45:51 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
13:45:52 <Zakim> 2. track action items [from kendallclark]
13:46:33 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#func-RDFterm-equal
13:46:42 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#OperatorMapping Operator Mapping
13:48:57 <EliasT> kendallclark: ericP did you propose text and tests to add boolean {boolean <> = !=} to SPARQL?
13:49:08 <EliasT> ericP: I only sent email, have not checked in text to CVS
13:49:30 <EliasT> AndyS: do tests exist?
13:49:43 <EliasT> ericP: I wasn't paying too much attention.
13:51:37 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/mid/20060530062645.GS28271@w3.org aforementioned tests
13:53:13 <LeeF> FILTER ?a = ?b = ?c .
13:53:19 <LeeF> AndyS gets a parsing error
13:54:06 <LeeF> so does ericP
13:54:11 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2005/01/yacker/uploads/SPARQL?lang=perl&text=ASK+%7B+%3Ax+%3Ay+%3Az+FILTER+%28+%3Fa+%3D+%3Fb+%3D+%3Fc+%29+%7D&action=validate+text
13:55:21 <kendallclark> *ah*
13:55:39 <EliasT> ericP: FredZ proposes a syntax that would be ambigous. AndyS and ericP get parser errors.
13:55:45 <kendallclark> Steve: sure, we just got started, really
13:55:53 <AndyS> http://sparql.org/validator?query=SELECT+*%0D%0AWHERE%0D%0A+++%7B+FILTER+%28+%3Fa+%3D+%28%3Fb+%3D+%3Fc%29+%29+%7D&linenumbers=true
13:56:47 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2005/01/yacker/uploads/SPARQL?lang=perl&text=ASK+%7B+%3Ax+%3Ay+%3Az+FILTER+%28+%3Fa+%3D+%28+%3Fb+%3D+%3Fc+%29+%29+%7D&action=validate+text
13:57:58 <Zakim> +??P7
13:57:59 <EliasT> Zakim, agenda
13:57:59 <Zakim> I don't understand 'agenda', EliasT
13:58:05 <LeeF> zakim, agenda?
13:58:05 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
13:58:06 <Zakim> 2. track action items [from kendallclark]
13:58:06 <SteveH> Zakim, +??P7 is SteveH
13:58:07 <Zakim> 3. Semantics and complexity of SPARQL [from kendallclark]
13:58:08 <Zakim> 4. Namespace of builtin functions? [from kendallclark]
13:58:09 <Zakim> 5. Patel-Schneider's LC comments [from kendallclark]
13:58:10 <Zakim> 6. Next meeting when? [from kendallclark]
13:58:11 <Zakim> sorry, SteveH, I do not recognize a party named '+??P7'
13:58:16 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P7 is SteveH
13:58:16 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
13:58:21 <EliasT> ACTION: LeeF to fix mimetype in json-reults [CONTINUES]
13:58:47 <EliasT> ACTION: EricP to propose text and tests to add {boolean < >  
13:58:47 <EliasT> = !=
13:58:47 <EliasT>     boolean} to SPARQL [CONTINUES]
13:59:42 <LeeF> looking now
14:00:14 <LeeF> There's an incorrect reference to text/json in the document. that's my action.
14:00:21 <LeeF> the mime type that we use is orthogonal to my action.
14:02:01 <EliasT> ACTION: EliasT to submit mime-type registration for json-results.
14:03:29 <EliasT> ACTION: AndyS: to draft of open-world = tests (unknown datatypes) [CONTINUES]
14:03:59 <LeeF> ACTION -4
14:04:00 <ericP> DONE
14:04:12 <LeeF> ACTION: AndyS: to draft of open-world = tests (unknown datatypes) [DONE]
14:04:53 <AndyS> A != B on RDF-terms is currently not(RDF-term-equals) which is not open world
14:05:57 <ericP>  1 != "1"^^foo:int
14:06:29 <EliasT> AndyS: in an open-world is unknown.
14:07:03 <EliasT> ericP: would like it to result in a error.
14:07:29 <ericP> error is the tightest way to describe the result
14:07:31 <AndyS> Currently ::  not( 1 = "1"^^foo:int) => true
14:07:42 <kendallclark> +1
14:08:34 <EliasT> patH: if we give a specific error in the case, bots could use that to perform private world calculations.
14:08:49 <AndyS> FILTER(?x=?y)
14:08:51 <kendallclark> zakim, mute me
14:08:51 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should now be muted
14:09:19 <SteveH> FILTER(termEqual(?zx, ?Y))
14:09:32 <ericP> FILTER(?x=?y || ?x SAMETERM ?y)
14:09:52 <ericP> FILTER(?x=?y || ?x !SAMETERM ?y)
14:12:06 <kendallclark> zakim, unmute me
14:12:06 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
14:15:13 <AndyS> Issue: Things like FILTER (?x = <x>) currently work.
14:15:29 <AndyS> which is intuitive.
14:15:34 <SteveH> +1
14:16:47 <kendallclark> zakim, next agendum
14:16:47 <Zakim> agendum 2. "track action items" taken up [from kendallclark]
14:16:50 <EliasT> ACTION: AndyS to resend a proposal to solve equality testing over email, ericP and patH to give eyes.
14:16:57 <kendallclark> zakim, close 2
14:16:57 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close 2', kendallclark
14:17:01 <kendallclark> zakim, close agendum 2
14:17:01 <Zakim> agendum 2, track action items, closed
14:17:02 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:17:03 <Zakim> 3. Semantics and complexity of SPARQL [from kendallclark]
14:18:56 <kendallclark> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2006Jun/0008.html
14:19:03 <EliasT> ACTION: AndyS to contribute a couple tests for computed-properties/virtual-prop/builtin. one using lists, and one not using lists [DONE]
14:19:10 <EliasT> AndyS, was that right?
14:20:17 <SteveH> UNION is not compositional, having variables that appear only in UNION blocks is legal
14:21:05 <AndyS> More concrete example would be good - they showed it was compositionaly under the restrictions they assume.
14:22:25 <kendallclark> message seems full of concrete examples of their main claims...
14:22:58 <kendallclark> cool :)
14:23:48 <SteveH> +1 to most conservative
14:25:02 <SteveH> q+
14:25:14 <kendallclark> q?
14:27:30 <EliasT> Zakim, mute me
14:27:30 <Zakim> EliasT should now be muted
14:28:00 <ericP> ack SteveH 
14:29:49 <AndyS> SELECT * { pat OPT pat1 OPT pat2 }
14:30:11 <AndyS> SELECT * { { pat OPT pat1 } OPT pat2 }
14:30:21 <ericP> SELECT * { { pat OPT pat1 } . {} OPT pat2 }
14:31:11 <kendallclark> we'll cover for you Elias :)
14:31:25 <kendallclark> you slacker
14:31:28 <kendallclark> -wink-
14:31:50 <ericP> SELECT * { { pat OPT pat1 } { OPT pat2 } }
14:31:58 <ericP> SELECT * { { pat OPT pat1 } { { } OPT pat2 } }
14:32:55 <AndyS> (OPT (OPT pat pat1) pat2))
14:34:51 <AndyS> http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2005/HPL-2005-170.html
14:48:26 <ericP> 2006-06-06T12:55:56Z <ericP> "Paradoxical SPARQL query?", "Mismatch with multiple OPTIONAL and grammar?"
14:49:07 <AndyS> which is May 0009
14:49:41 <AndyS> "FILTER evaluation problem" is Apr 0025
14:50:41 <Zakim> -EliasT
14:51:26 <Zakim> -LeeF
14:59:04 <AndyS> OPT is binary - gives an interpretation of the query
14:59:29 <AndyS> This goes back to an ealier dialog when they had a different design for optional
14:59:32 <kendallclark> ACTION EricP: to send mail about 3-part interpretation of optionals
14:59:47 <EliasT> EliasT has joined #dawg
15:00:04 <kendallclark> ACTION PatH: to kibbitz with EricP about 3-part interpretation of optionals
15:00:42 <kendallclark> ACTION KendallC: to tell Martin Soto that we're considering his comments
15:01:01 <AndyS> hence I believe its already been answered
15:03:22 <kendallclark> ADJOURNED
15:03:35 <Zakim> -Kendall_Clark
15:03:37 <Zakim> -SteveH
15:03:43 <Zakim> -FredZ
15:05:41 <AndyS> rrsagent, please make logs world-readable
15:06:11 <EliasT> rrsagent, please generate log
15:06:11 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'please generate log', EliasT.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:06:24 <ericP> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:06:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/06/06-dawg-minutes.html ericP
15:08:22 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:08:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, ericP, PatH
15:13:58 <ericP> ( A OPT B) . (C OPT D)
15:14:19 <ericP> vs. ((A OPT B) OPT D) . C
15:15:59 <AndyS> (A OPT B OPT C)
15:16:11 <AndyS> (OPT (OPT A B) C)
15:17:04 <ericP> ((A OPT B) OPT C)
15:17:14 <AndyS> (A - B - C ) => (- (- A B) C)
15:18:51 <LeeF> this is fun to watch without hearing the conversation. sort of hypnotizing.
15:19:06 <patH> just wait until we get to D and E.
15:19:24 <ericP> working backwords from ZZZ, we get ...
15:20:13 <patH> binary makes it possible to write (A opt (B opt C)), I presume?
15:20:22 <patH> That would be impossible with 'unary'
15:20:44 <patH> Right.
15:20:47 <ericP> {}
15:20:50 <AndyS> Yes - because the brackets were added
15:21:01 <ericP> { OPT A }
15:21:29 <AndyS> {} is true
15:21:34 <ericP> []
15:21:44 <AndyS> { OPT A } => { {} OPT A }
15:22:04 <ericP> [[]]
15:22:12 <patH> Yes, in logic (and)=true and (or) =false
15:22:57 <patH> Gotta go.
15:23:01 <Zakim> -PatH
15:23:17 <AndyS> Thx PatH
15:23:36 <ericP> http://unagi/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#OptionalMatchingDefn
15:23:47 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#OptionalMatchingDefn
15:24:23 <AndyS> { } OPTIONAL { pattern } => { { } OPTIONAL { pattern } }
15:25:43 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#GroupPatterns
15:26:34 <AndyS> Add {} before 4.2
15:26:50 <AndyS> and renumber / re-TOC rest of 4
15:31:31 <Zakim> -ericP
15:31:48 <ericP> odd
15:31:59 <AndyS> Bye then :-)
15:32:11 <Zakim> -AndyS
15:32:13 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
15:32:14 <Zakim> Attendees were AndyS, Kendall_Clark, +1.650.372.aaaa, Elias_Torres, ericP, PatH, FredZ, LeeF, EliasT, SteveH
15:32:15 <ericP> yeah, can't get back in
15:32:36 <AndyS> Anyway - good point to get back to the agree plan - zakim is giving us a hint
15:32:43 <AndyS> Maybe we ran over the slot time.
15:32:48 <ericP> prolly
15:32:49 <LeeF> you can get Zakim to allocate a room for you
15:33:04 <AndyS> AndyS has left #dawg
15:33:29 <ericP> afs, do you want to pick this up with voice? or continue in email...
15:37:00 <AndyS> Prolly better to wait for your email and involve everyone in the discussion.  Concrete examples (for the test suite as well?) will help other implementers
15:37:38 <AndyS> (unless there is somethign you need for that email, of course)
17:14:50 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dawg
17:52:26 <SteveH> SteveH has joined #dawg