IRC log of ws-desc on 2006-05-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:59:19 [RRSAgent]
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13:59:19 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:59:39 [Zakim]
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13:59:51 [TonyR]
zakim, this will be wsdl
13:59:51 [Zakim]
ok, TonyR, I see WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM already started
14:00:02 [TonyR]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:00:02 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P10
14:00:09 [Zakim]
14:00:10 [Zakim]
14:00:11 [Zakim]
14:00:12 [TonyR]
zakim, ??p10 is me
14:00:12 [Zakim]
+TonyR; got it
14:00:46 [jkaputin]
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14:00:53 [TonyR]
zakim, roland_M is jkaputin
14:00:53 [Zakim]
+jkaputin; got it
14:01:17 [TonyR]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:01:17 [Zakim]
On the phone I see TonyR, jkaputin
14:03:21 [Zakim]
14:04:06 [Arthur]
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14:05:40 [Zakim]
14:05:53 [Jonathan]
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14:06:26 [Jonathan]
zakim, who's on the phone?>
14:06:26 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who's on the phone?>', Jonathan
14:06:29 [Jonathan]
zakim, who's on the phone?
14:06:29 [Zakim]
On the phone I see TonyR, jkaputin, Arthur_Ryman, Jonathan_Marsh
14:08:25 [TonyR]
14:08:39 [Jonathan]
Arthur: Completed interchange schemas for extensions, with different namespaces.
14:09:29 [Jonathan]
...Moved name into a base namespace
14:09:56 [Zakim]
+ +1.905.413.aaaa
14:10:14 [lmandel]
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14:10:25 [Jonathan]
zakim, aaaa is lmandel
14:10:25 [Zakim]
+lmandel; got it
14:10:51 [lmandel_]
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14:12:00 [TonyR]
arthur: used an extra namespace to permit reuse
14:12:42 [TonyR]
jonathan: find it not aesthetic, but understand the need
14:12:55 [TonyR]
arthur: avoiding circular dependency
14:14:57 [TonyR]
jonathan: hard drive failure lost previous "implementation"
14:15:09 [TonyR]
omnes: sympathise
14:15:57 [TonyR]
jonathan: producing a different version with improved design
14:17:21 [TonyR]
arthur: ran new version with the new extensions: safe and signature
14:18:03 [TonyR]
jonathan: roll-up report generated from test suite metadata - noted that it doesn't include Sparql, for example
14:18:44 [TonyR]
john: wrote some new test cases, not had time to check them in yet.
14:19:10 [TonyR]
john: including nested imports
14:19:22 [TonyR]
jonathan: my XSLT will fail those
14:19:43 [TonyR]
arthur: xerces won't handle fragment ids correctly
14:19:57 [TonyR]
lawrence: have to handle that with custom code
14:20:09 [TonyR]
arthur: have a solution strategy for it
14:20:37 [TonyR]
arthur: have to use a "magic" API to handle it
14:21:23 [TonyR]
arthur: documentation for this can be found in a xerces JIRA submitted by me
14:23:26 [TonyR]
arthur: can avoid the need: anything that can be put in an in-line schema can be put in another resource
14:24:31 [TonyR]
john: spec doesn't say that QNames in the extends attribute have to be unique
14:24:57 [TonyR]
arthur: should be a validation error if a QName appears twice in this attribute
14:25:31 [TonyR]
john: should raise this as on the list?
14:25:37 [TonyR]
jonathan: yes
14:26:05 [TonyR]
john: if I find any issues in Part 2 I'll raise them next call
14:27:00 [TonyR]
lawrence: there is some traffic on the Woden list on some issues in implementing WSDL 2 in Axis
14:28:43 [TonyR]
john: suggestion for how to integrate Woden into Axis 2 by connecting the Woden object model to their WOM
14:30:13 [TonyR]
john: suggestion made by Dims - may not be the most efficient, but pragmatic for the interop event
14:30:55 [TonyR]
john: have had a WSDL 1.1 -> WSDL 2 converter submitted to the Woden repository this week
14:31:39 [TonyR]
arthur: but there are lots of things in WSDL 1.1 that cannot be represented in WSDL 2.0, so this is not a true representation of the WSDL 1.1 original
14:32:11 [TonyR]
... we could define extensions to represent the missing parts of WSDL 1.1
14:32:21 [TonyR]
john: add these to the spec?
14:32:54 [TonyR]
arthur: no, not as part of the spec, per se, but as third party extensions to provide a migration path
14:33:40 [TonyR]
jonathan: seems a bit surreal - we went to the trouble to remove all these things, and now we will add them back in!
14:34:17 [TonyR]
arthur: it's for migration purposes. We're not encouraging people to use them.
14:35:01 [TonyR]
arthur: not having those features could act as a barrier to conversion to WSDL 2.0
14:36:25 [TonyR]
lawrence: if we provide all these features, why would they migrate?
14:37:01 [TonyR]
arthur: if we do this, then Axis 2 can become widely deployed, and people will have the ability to use WSDL 2
14:37:26 [TonyR]
john: well, it would give them an easier migration path
14:38:32 [TonyR]
arthur: first step would be to provide WSDL 1.1 to WSDL 2.0 conversion, as best we can. There are problems in the service element - many things you could put there that can't be represented
14:39:08 [TonyR]
arthur: you could put as many bindings as you wanted into one service element in WSDL 1.1, for example
14:39:41 [TonyR]
john: the conversion tool addressed that by generating multiple service elements, one for each binding
14:39:55 [TonyR]
s/service elements/services/
14:40:46 [TonyR]
arthur: may need a convention to capture where the multiple services came from
14:41:11 [TonyR]
john: where would the document go?
14:42:00 [TonyR]
arthur: would suggest that the document describing these extension/s be submitted as a Note
14:44:45 [TonyR]
john: we can start with the work that Matt has done in this conversion tool
14:45:11 [TonyR]
arthur: he wrote up some of the issues earlier
14:49:56 [Zakim]
14:49:58 [Zakim]
14:49:59 [TonyR]
All done for this week
14:50:00 [Zakim]
14:50:00 [Zakim]
14:50:02 [Zakim]
This conference is scheduled to end in 10 minutes; all ports must be freed
14:50:07 [TonyR]
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14:50:09 [lmandel_]
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14:50:14 [Zakim]
14:50:16 [Zakim]
WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM has ended
14:50:17 [Zakim]
Attendees were Roland_Merrick, TonyR, jkaputin, Arthur_Ryman, Jonathan_Marsh, +1.905.413.aaaa, lmandel
14:50:23 [TonyR]
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15:01:35 [Roberto]
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15:02:03 [TonyR]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:17 [Zakim]
apparently WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM has ended, TonyR
15:02:17 [Bozhong]
bozhong is on the phone
15:02:29 [Allen]
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15:02:31 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Roberto, Bozhong, plh, TonyR, Jonathan, Arthur, jkaputin, Zakim, RRSAgent
15:02:32 [TonyR]
zakim, this is wswdg
15:02:49 [Zakim]
sorry, TonyR, I do not see a conference named 'wswdg' in progress or scheduled at this time
15:02:50 [TonyR]
zakim, this is wsdwg
15:03:11 [Zakim]
ok, TonyR; that matches WS_DescWG()11:00AM
15:03:24 [Jonathan]
zakijm, who's on the phone?
15:03:26 [alewis]
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15:03:32 [Zakim]
15:03:34 [Zakim]
15:03:40 [TonyR]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:44 [Zakim]
15:03:54 [jkaputin_]
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15:04:00 [Allen]
zakim, ??P42 is Allen
15:04:02 [Zakim]
15:04:06 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [IPcaller], ??P5, Arthur_Ryman, Amelia_Lewis, ??P42, Jonathan_Marsh
15:04:14 [Bozhong]
ipcaller is bozhong
15:04:16 [TonyR]
zakim, ??p5 is me
15:04:22 [Zakim]
15:04:36 [Zakim]
+Allen; got it
15:04:40 [Zakim]
+TonyR; got it
15:05:19 [Zakim]
15:07:53 [Zakim]
15:07:54 [Allen]
15:09:27 [plh]
15:10:07 [Allen]
Topic: telcon
15:10:32 [Allen]
Next telcon, next week
15:10:50 [gpilz]
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15:10:52 [Allen]
Topic: interop report
15:11:11 [Allen]
JM: Arthur refactored all the schemas
15:12:53 [Allen]
Topic: RDF pub status
15:13:24 [Allen]
Philippe: RDF now published
15:13:33 [Allen]
JM: RDF now in last call
15:13:47 [Allen]
Topic: features and properties
15:14:02 [Allen]
JM: in a holding pattern, waiting for input
15:14:29 [Allen]
Topic: CR022
15:15:55 [Allen]
Roberto: No retionale for having an extension modify components of imported documents
15:16:26 [Allen]
Roberto: no objection to proposal
15:16:47 [Allen]
JM: How bad are the effects of the status quo?
15:17:23 [Allen]
JM: Is n**2 validation time really that bad?
15:18:06 [youenn]
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15:18:28 [Allen]
Arthur: Yes, seeing bad performance because documents can't be cached. With restriction documents would only need to be read once.
15:18:36 [Zakim]
15:19:02 [Allen]
Arthur: We are seeing workspaces with hundreds of documents
15:19:16 [Jonathan]
zakim, P56 is Youenn
15:19:16 [Zakim]
sorry, Jonathan, I do not recognize a party named 'P56'
15:19:19 [Jonathan]
zakim, ??P56 is Youenn
15:19:19 [Zakim]
+Youenn; got it
15:19:20 [Allen]
JM: Can we leave this open for one more week? Asir had some questions.
15:19:34 [Allen]
Topic: CR029