IRC log of ws-desc on 2006-05-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:59:19 [RRSAgent]

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/05/18-ws-desc-irc

13:59:39 [Zakim]

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13:59:51 [TonyR]

zakim, this will be wsdl

13:59:51 [Zakim]

ok, TonyR, I see WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM already started

14:00:02 [TonyR]

zakim, who is on the phone?

14:00:02 [Zakim]

On the phone I see ??P10

14:00:09 [Zakim]

+Roland_Merrick

14:00:10 [Zakim]

-Roland_Merrick

14:00:11 [Zakim]

+Roland_Merrick

14:00:12 [TonyR]

zakim, ??p10 is me

14:00:12 [Zakim]

+TonyR; got it

14:00:46 [jkaputin]

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14:00:53 [TonyR]

zakim, roland_M is jkaputin

14:00:53 [Zakim]

+jkaputin; got it

14:01:17 [TonyR]

zakim, who is on the phone?

14:01:17 [Zakim]

On the phone I see TonyR, jkaputin

14:03:21 [Zakim]

+Arthur_Ryman

14:04:06 [Arthur]

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14:05:40 [Zakim]

+Jonathan_Marsh

14:05:53 [Jonathan]

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14:06:26 [Jonathan]

zakim, who's on the phone?>

14:06:26 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'who's on the phone?>', Jonathan

14:06:29 [Jonathan]

zakim, who's on the phone?

14:06:29 [Zakim]

On the phone I see TonyR, jkaputin, Arthur_Ryman, Jonathan_Marsh

14:08:25 [TonyR]

SCRIBE: TonyR

14:08:39 [Jonathan]

Arthur: Completed interchange schemas for extensions, with different namespaces.

14:09:29 [Jonathan]

...Moved name into a base namespace

14:09:56 [Zakim]

+ +1.905.413.aaaa

14:10:14 [lmandel]

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14:10:25 [Jonathan]

zakim, aaaa is lmandel

14:10:25 [Zakim]

+lmandel; got it

14:10:51 [lmandel_]

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14:12:00 [TonyR]

arthur: used an extra namespace to permit reuse

14:12:42 [TonyR]

jonathan: find it not aesthetic, but understand the need

14:12:55 [TonyR]

arthur: avoiding circular dependency

14:14:57 [TonyR]

jonathan: hard drive failure lost previous "implementation"

14:15:09 [TonyR]

omnes: sympathise

14:15:57 [TonyR]

jonathan: producing a different version with improved design

14:17:21 [TonyR]

arthur: ran new version with the new extensions: safe and signature

14:18:03 [TonyR]

jonathan: roll-up report generated from test suite metadata - noted that it doesn't include Sparql, for example

14:18:44 [TonyR]

john: wrote some new test cases, not had time to check them in yet.

14:19:10 [TonyR]

john: including nested imports

14:19:22 [TonyR]

jonathan: my XSLT will fail those

14:19:43 [TonyR]

arthur: xerces won't handle fragment ids correctly

14:19:57 [TonyR]

lawrence: have to handle that with custom code

14:20:09 [TonyR]

arthur: have a solution strategy for it

14:20:37 [TonyR]

arthur: have to use a "magic" API to handle it

14:21:23 [TonyR]

arthur: documentation for this can be found in a xerces JIRA submitted by me

14:23:26 [TonyR]

arthur: can avoid the need: anything that can be put in an in-line schema can be put in another resource

14:24:31 [TonyR]

john: spec doesn't say that QNames in the extends attribute have to be unique

14:24:57 [TonyR]

arthur: should be a validation error if a QName appears twice in this attribute

14:25:31 [TonyR]

john: should raise this as on the list?

14:25:37 [TonyR]

jonathan: yes

14:26:05 [TonyR]

john: if I find any issues in Part 2 I'll raise them next call

14:27:00 [TonyR]

lawrence: there is some traffic on the Woden list on some issues in implementing WSDL 2 in Axis

14:28:43 [TonyR]

john: suggestion for how to integrate Woden into Axis 2 by connecting the Woden object model to their WOM

14:30:13 [TonyR]

john: suggestion made by Dims - may not be the most efficient, but pragmatic for the interop event

14:30:55 [TonyR]

john: have had a WSDL 1.1 -> WSDL 2 converter submitted to the Woden repository this week

14:31:39 [TonyR]

arthur: but there are lots of things in WSDL 1.1 that cannot be represented in WSDL 2.0, so this is not a true representation of the WSDL 1.1 original

14:32:11 [TonyR]

... we could define extensions to represent the missing parts of WSDL 1.1

14:32:21 [TonyR]

john: add these to the spec?

14:32:54 [TonyR]

arthur: no, not as part of the spec, per se, but as third party extensions to provide a migration path

14:33:40 [TonyR]

jonathan: seems a bit surreal - we went to the trouble to remove all these things, and now we will add them back in!

14:34:17 [TonyR]

arthur: it's for migration purposes. We're not encouraging people to use them.

14:35:01 [TonyR]

arthur: not having those features could act as a barrier to conversion to WSDL 2.0

14:36:25 [TonyR]

lawrence: if we provide all these features, why would they migrate?

14:37:01 [TonyR]

arthur: if we do this, then Axis 2 can become widely deployed, and people will have the ability to use WSDL 2

14:37:26 [TonyR]

john: well, it would give them an easier migration path

14:38:32 [TonyR]

arthur: first step would be to provide WSDL 1.1 to WSDL 2.0 conversion, as best we can. There are problems in the service element - many things you could put there that can't be represented

14:39:08 [TonyR]

arthur: you could put as many bindings as you wanted into one service element in WSDL 1.1, for example

14:39:41 [TonyR]

john: the conversion tool addressed that by generating multiple service elements, one for each binding

14:39:55 [TonyR]

s/service elements/services/

14:40:46 [TonyR]

arthur: may need a convention to capture where the multiple services came from

14:41:11 [TonyR]

john: where would the document go?

14:42:00 [TonyR]

arthur: would suggest that the document describing these extension/s be submitted as a Note

14:44:45 [TonyR]

john: we can start with the work that Matt has done in this conversion tool

14:45:11 [TonyR]

arthur: he wrote up some of the issues earlier

14:49:56 [Zakim]

-jkaputin

14:49:58 [Zakim]

-Jonathan_Marsh

14:49:59 [TonyR]

All done for this week

14:50:00 [Zakim]

-Arthur_Ryman

14:50:00 [Zakim]

-lmandel

14:50:02 [Zakim]

This conference is scheduled to end in 10 minutes; all ports must be freed

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14:50:14 [Zakim]

-TonyR

14:50:16 [Zakim]

WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM has ended

14:50:17 [Zakim]

Attendees were Roland_Merrick, TonyR, jkaputin, Arthur_Ryman, Jonathan_Marsh, +1.905.413.aaaa, lmandel

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14:56:15 [plh]

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15:02:03 [TonyR]

zakim, who is on the phone?

15:02:17 [Zakim]

apparently WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM has ended, TonyR

15:02:17 [Bozhong]

bozhong is on the phone

15:02:29 [Allen]

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15:02:31 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Roberto, Bozhong, plh, TonyR, Jonathan, Arthur, jkaputin, Zakim, RRSAgent

15:02:32 [TonyR]

zakim, this is wswdg

15:02:49 [Zakim]

sorry, TonyR, I do not see a conference named 'wswdg' in progress or scheduled at this time

15:02:50 [TonyR]

zakim, this is wsdwg

15:03:11 [Zakim]

ok, TonyR; that matches WS_DescWG()11:00AM

15:03:24 [Jonathan]

zakijm, who's on the phone?

15:03:26 [alewis]

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15:03:32 [Zakim]

-Roberto

15:03:34 [Zakim]

+Amelia_Lewis

15:03:40 [TonyR]

zakim, who is on the phone?

15:03:44 [Zakim]

+??P42

15:03:54 [jkaputin_]

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15:04:00 [Allen]

zakim, ??P42 is Allen

15:04:02 [Zakim]

+Jonathan_Marsh

15:04:06 [Zakim]

On the phone I see [IPcaller], ??P5, Arthur_Ryman, Amelia_Lewis, ??P42, Jonathan_Marsh

15:04:14 [Bozhong]

ipcaller is bozhong

15:04:16 [TonyR]

zakim, ??p5 is me

15:04:22 [Zakim]

+Roberto

15:04:36 [Zakim]

+Allen; got it

15:04:40 [Zakim]

+TonyR; got it

15:05:19 [Zakim]

+Plh

15:07:53 [Zakim]

+Gilbert_Pilz

15:07:54 [Allen]

SCRIBE: Allen

15:09:27 [plh]

http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/6/07/interop-logistic.html

15:10:07 [Allen]

Topic: telcon

15:10:32 [Allen]

Next telcon, next week

15:10:50 [gpilz]

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15:10:52 [Allen]

Topic: interop report

15:11:11 [Allen]

JM: Arthur refactored all the schemas

15:12:53 [Allen]

Topic: RDF pub status

15:13:24 [Allen]

Philippe: RDF now published

15:13:33 [Allen]

JM: RDF now in last call

15:13:47 [Allen]

Topic: features and properties

15:14:02 [Allen]

JM: in a holding pattern, waiting for input

15:14:29 [Allen]

Topic: CR022

15:15:55 [Allen]

Roberto: No retionale for having an extension modify components of imported documents

15:16:26 [Allen]

Roberto: no objection to proposal

15:16:47 [Allen]

JM: How bad are the effects of the status quo?

15:17:23 [Allen]

JM: Is n**2 validation time really that bad?

15:18:06 [youenn]

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15:18:28 [Allen]

Arthur: Yes, seeing bad performance because documents can't be cached. With restriction documents would only need to be read once.

15:18:36 [Zakim]

+??P56

15:19:02 [Allen]

Arthur: We are seeing workspaces with hundreds of documents

15:19:16 [Jonathan]

zakim, P56 is Youenn

15:19:16 [Zakim]

sorry, Jonathan, I do not recognize a party named 'P56'

15:19:19 [Jonathan]

zakim, ??P56 is Youenn

15:19:19 [Zakim]

+Youenn; got it

15:19:20 [Allen]

JM: Can we leave this open for one more week? Asir had some questions.

15:19:34 [Allen]

Topic: CR029