13:59:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ws-desc
13:59:19 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/05/18-ws-desc-irc
13:59:39 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ws-desc
13:59:51 <TonyR> zakim, this will be wsdl
13:59:51 <Zakim> ok, TonyR, I see WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM already started
14:00:02 <TonyR> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:00:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P10
14:00:09 <Zakim> +Roland_Merrick
14:00:10 <Zakim> -Roland_Merrick
14:00:11 <Zakim> +Roland_Merrick
14:00:12 <TonyR> zakim, ??p10 is me
14:00:12 <Zakim> +TonyR; got it
14:00:46 <jkaputin> jkaputin has joined #ws-desc
14:00:53 <TonyR> zakim, roland_M is jkaputin
14:00:53 <Zakim> +jkaputin; got it
14:01:17 <TonyR> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:01:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see TonyR, jkaputin
14:03:21 <Zakim> +Arthur_Ryman
14:04:06 <Arthur> Arthur has joined #ws-desc
14:05:40 <Zakim> +Jonathan_Marsh
14:05:53 <Jonathan> Jonathan has joined #ws-desc
14:06:26 <Jonathan> zakim, who's on the phone?>
14:06:26 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's on the phone?>', Jonathan
14:06:29 <Jonathan> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:06:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see TonyR, jkaputin, Arthur_Ryman, Jonathan_Marsh
14:08:25 <TonyR> SCRIBE: TonyR
14:08:39 <Jonathan> Arthur: Completed interchange schemas for extensions, with different namespaces.
14:09:29 <Jonathan> ...Moved name into a base namespace
14:09:56 <Zakim> + +1.905.413.aaaa
14:10:14 <lmandel> lmandel has joined #ws-desc
14:10:25 <Jonathan> zakim, aaaa is lmandel
14:10:25 <Zakim> +lmandel; got it
14:10:51 <lmandel_> lmandel_ has joined #ws-desc
14:12:00 <TonyR> arthur: used an extra namespace to permit reuse
14:12:42 <TonyR> jonathan: find it not aesthetic, but understand the need
14:12:55 <TonyR> arthur: avoiding circular dependency
14:14:57 <TonyR> jonathan: hard drive failure lost previous "implementation" 
14:15:09 <TonyR> omnes: sympathise
14:15:57 <TonyR> jonathan: producing a different version with improved design
14:17:21 <TonyR> arthur: ran new version with the new extensions: safe and signature
14:18:03 <TonyR> jonathan: roll-up report generated from test suite metadata - noted that it doesn't include Sparql, for example
14:18:44 <TonyR> john: wrote some new test cases, not had time to check them in yet.
14:19:10 <TonyR> john: including nested imports
14:19:22 <TonyR> jonathan: my XSLT will fail those
14:19:43 <TonyR> arthur: xerces won't handle fragment ids correctly
14:19:57 <TonyR> lawrence: have to handle that with custom code
14:20:09 <TonyR> arthur: have a solution strategy for it
14:20:37 <TonyR> arthur: have to use a "magic" API to handle it
14:21:23 <TonyR> arthur: documentation for this can be found in a xerces JIRA submitted by me
14:23:26 <TonyR> arthur: can avoid the need: anything that can be put in an in-line schema can be put in another resource
14:24:31 <TonyR> john: spec doesn't say that QNames in the extends attribute have to be unique
14:24:57 <TonyR> arthur: should be a validation error if a QName appears twice in this attribute
14:25:31 <TonyR> john: should raise this as on the list?
14:25:37 <TonyR> jonathan: yes
14:26:05 <TonyR> john: if I find any issues in Part 2 I'll raise them next call
14:27:00 <TonyR> lawrence: there is some traffic on the Woden list on some issues in implementing WSDL 2 in Axis
14:28:43 <TonyR> john: suggestion for how to integrate Woden into Axis 2 by connecting the Woden object model to their WOM 
14:30:13 <TonyR> john: suggestion made by Dims - may not be the most efficient, but pragmatic for the interop event
14:30:55 <TonyR> john: have had a WSDL 1.1 -> WSDL 2 converter submitted to the Woden repository this week
14:31:39 <TonyR> arthur: but there are lots of things in WSDL 1.1 that cannot be represented in WSDL 2.0, so this is not a true representation of the WSDL 1.1 original
14:32:11 <TonyR> ... we could define extensions to represent the missing parts of WSDL 1.1
14:32:21 <TonyR> john: add these to the spec?
14:32:54 <TonyR> arthur: no, not as part of the spec, per se, but as third party extensions to provide a migration path
14:33:40 <TonyR> jonathan: seems a bit surreal - we went to the trouble to remove all these things, and now we will add them back in!
14:34:17 <TonyR> arthur: it's for migration purposes. We're not encouraging people to use them.
14:35:01 <TonyR> arthur: not having those features could act as a barrier to conversion to WSDL 2.0
14:36:25 <TonyR> lawrence: if we provide all these features, why would they migrate?
14:37:01 <TonyR> arthur: if we do this, then Axis 2 can become widely deployed, and people will have the ability to use WSDL 2
14:37:26 <TonyR> john: well, it would give them an easier migration path
14:38:32 <TonyR> arthur: first step would be to provide WSDL 1.1 to WSDL 2.0 conversion, as best we can. There are problems in the service element - many things you could put there that can't be represented
14:39:08 <TonyR> arthur: you could put as many bindings as you wanted into one service element in WSDL 1.1, for example
14:39:41 <TonyR> john: the conversion tool addressed that by generating multiple service elements, one for each binding
14:39:55 <TonyR> s/service elements/services/
14:40:46 <TonyR> arthur: may need a convention to capture where the multiple services came from
14:41:11 <TonyR> john: where would the document go?
14:42:00 <TonyR> arthur: would suggest that the document describing these extension/s be submitted as a Note
14:44:45 <TonyR> john: we can start with the work that Matt has done in this conversion tool
14:45:11 <TonyR> arthur: he wrote up some of the issues earlier
14:49:56 <Zakim> -jkaputin
14:49:58 <Zakim> -Jonathan_Marsh
14:49:59 <TonyR> All done for this week
14:50:00 <Zakim> -Arthur_Ryman
14:50:00 <Zakim> -lmandel
14:50:02 <Zakim> This conference is scheduled to end in 10 minutes; all ports must be freed
14:50:07 <TonyR> TonyR has left #ws-desc
14:50:09 <lmandel_> lmandel_ has left #ws-desc
14:50:14 <Zakim> -TonyR
14:50:16 <Zakim> WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM has ended
14:50:17 <Zakim> Attendees were Roland_Merrick, TonyR, jkaputin, Arthur_Ryman, Jonathan_Marsh, +1.905.413.aaaa, lmandel
14:50:23 <TonyR> TonyR has joined #ws-desc
14:56:15 <plh> plh has joined #ws-desc
15:00:35 <Bozhong> Bozhong has joined #ws-desc
15:01:35 <Roberto> Roberto has joined #ws-desc
15:02:03 <TonyR> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:17 <Zakim> apparently WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM has ended, TonyR
15:02:17 <Bozhong> bozhong is on the phone
15:02:29 <Allen> Allen has joined #ws-desc
15:02:31 <Zakim> On IRC I see Roberto, Bozhong, plh, TonyR, Jonathan, Arthur, jkaputin, Zakim, RRSAgent
15:02:32 <TonyR> zakim, this is wswdg
15:02:49 <Zakim> sorry, TonyR, I do not see a conference named 'wswdg' in progress or scheduled at this time
15:02:50 <TonyR> zakim, this is wsdwg
15:03:11 <Zakim> ok, TonyR; that matches WS_DescWG()11:00AM
15:03:24 <Jonathan> zakijm, who's on the phone?
15:03:26 <alewis> alewis has joined #ws-desc
15:03:32 <Zakim> -Roberto
15:03:34 <Zakim> +Amelia_Lewis
15:03:40 <TonyR> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:44 <Zakim> +??P42
15:03:54 <jkaputin_> jkaputin_ has joined #ws-desc
15:04:00 <Allen> zakim, ??P42 is Allen
15:04:02 <Zakim> +Jonathan_Marsh
15:04:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IPcaller], ??P5, Arthur_Ryman, Amelia_Lewis, ??P42, Jonathan_Marsh
15:04:14 <Bozhong> ipcaller is bozhong
15:04:16 <TonyR> zakim, ??p5 is me
15:04:22 <Zakim> +Roberto
15:04:36 <Zakim> +Allen; got it
15:04:40 <Zakim> +TonyR; got it
15:05:19 <Zakim> +Plh
15:07:53 <Zakim> +Gilbert_Pilz
15:07:54 <Allen> SCRIBE: Allen
15:09:27 <plh> http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/6/07/interop-logistic.html
15:10:07 <Allen> Topic: telcon
15:10:32 <Allen> Next telcon, next week
15:10:50 <gpilz> gpilz has joined #ws-desc
15:10:52 <Allen> Topic: interop report
15:11:11 <Allen> JM: Arthur refactored all the schemas
15:12:53 <Allen> Topic: RDF pub status
15:13:24 <Allen> Philippe: RDF now published
15:13:33 <Allen> JM: RDF now in last call
15:13:47 <Allen> Topic: features and properties
15:14:02 <Allen> JM: in a holding pattern, waiting for input
15:14:29 <Allen> Topic: CR022
15:15:55 <Allen> Roberto: No retionale for having an extension modify components of imported documents
15:16:26 <Allen> Roberto: no objection to proposal
15:16:47 <Allen> JM: How bad are the effects of the status quo?
15:17:23 <Allen> JM: Is n**2 validation time really that bad?
15:18:06 <youenn> youenn has joined #ws-desc
15:18:28 <Allen> Arthur: Yes, seeing bad performance because documents can't be cached.  With restriction documents would only need to be read once.
15:18:36 <Zakim> +??P56
15:19:02 <Allen> Arthur: We are seeing workspaces with hundreds of documents
15:19:16 <Jonathan> zakim, P56 is Youenn
15:19:16 <Zakim> sorry, Jonathan, I do not recognize a party named 'P56'
15:19:19 <Jonathan> zakim, ??P56 is Youenn
15:19:19 <Zakim> +Youenn; got it
15:19:20 <Allen> JM: Can we leave this open for one more week?  Asir had some questions.
15:19:34 <Allen> Topic: CR029