IRC log of i18nits on 2006-05-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:32:23 [RRSAgent]

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/05/10-i18nits-irc

13:32:53 [fsasaki]

meeting: i18n ITS working group

13:32:55 [fsasaki]

chair: Yves

13:32:58 [fsasaki]

scribe: Felid

13:33:10 [fsasaki]

s/Felid/Felix/

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scribeNick: fsasaki

13:33:53 [fsasaki]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0064.html

13:40:58 [YvesS]

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13:41:35 [YvesS]

Hello Zakim!

13:42:44 [fsasaki]

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13:46:48 [fsasaki]

Hi yves

13:47:29 [YvesS]

Hi Felix

13:49:01 [fsasaki]

I was wondering how long you want to edit the requirements and "best practices" document. Would it be o.k. if I take over on Thursday evening (Japanese time)?

13:49:08 [fsasaki]

i.e, the xml sources

13:49:30 [fsasaki]

for the publication preparation

13:50:04 [YvesS]

Thursday that is tomorrow?

13:50:10 [fsasaki]

yes

13:50:24 [YvesS]

no problem with the Reqs.

13:50:30 [fsasaki]

o.k.

13:50:54 [fsasaki]

oh, I saw that there are no "modularization" section in "BP" yet

13:51:09 [YvesS]

I may be able to work a bit more on the "BP", but I'm not sure, how useful it would be.

13:51:54 [fsasaki]

I think it would be great to have the modularization sections. Do you think that is doable? Could I help?

13:51:56 [YvesS]

BTW: I'm gone to Paris (immigration visa for Bea + familly visit) from tomorrow to monday. no email contact.

13:52:22 [YvesS]

The modularizations are there (at least the 3 first)

13:52:42 [fsasaki]

oh, I see. I will be on the plan on Monday morning, so the last day I can edit / do mail is Sunday evening

13:53:08 [YvesS]

see http://www.w3.org/International/its/techniques/its-techniques.html#Modularization

13:53:41 [YvesS]

ok, then it make sense to hand you over the BP as well.

13:53:41 [fsasaki]

oh, great. Sorry, I had not seen them.

13:54:09 [YvesS]

That means I need to give you all that before tomorrow my time.

13:54:23 [YvesS]

I'll do it after the call.

13:54:29 [fsasaki]

one last question: Could you also give me the stylesheets and everything Richard gave you, for both documents? Just to make sure that I'm using the same XSLT / CSS

13:54:36 [fsasaki]

tx

13:54:59 [YvesS]

sure. I'll make two zip one for the Req and one for the BP.

13:55:07 [fsasaki]

thanks

13:55:44 [YvesS]

I've seen Goutam's email. Is there a big difference between "may or may not" and "might"?

13:56:13 [fsasaki]

I don't think so, so I'm fine with the change

13:56:46 [fsasaki]

btw., would it be o.k. to add docbook to the modularizations?

13:56:53 [YvesS]

we should do it for all then.

13:57:45 [YvesS]

docbook... the problem is the withinText part: it's huge and I had no time to do that list yet. The rest should be pretty much ok.

13:58:08 [YvesS]

but it's still not in the BP yet.

13:58:16 [fsasaki]

o.k., I'll have a look. Maybe we can talk about it briefly at the call

13:58:21 [YvesS]

ok

13:58:31 [fsasaki]

I would integrate it then, if that's o.k. with you

13:58:46 [YvesS]

ok

13:59:53 [fsasaki]

btw., did you see the mail from Sebastian: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0082.html ? maybe we can talk about it briefly as well

13:59:57 [Zakim]

I18N_TS()10:00AM has now started

14:00:05 [Zakim]

+Yves

14:00:06 [Zakim]

+Felix

14:01:52 [diane]

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14:02:31 [Zakim]

+Sebastian_Rahtz

14:03:27 [Zakim]

+Diane_Stoick

14:04:05 [fsasaki]

regrets: Richard, Andrzej, Christian (maybe late)

14:04:34 [fsasaki]

topic: action items

14:05:11 [fsasaki]

action: all to review the xs:annotation elements in http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/its.xsd (ONGOING)

14:05:36 [fsasaki]

action: Felix (possibly others) to look on the issue of xml:base, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0156.html (DONE)

14:06:24 [fsasaki]

yves: xml:base is covered by xlink, so we don't need a direct reference

14:06:39 [fsasaki]

.. does xml:base look like xml:lang?

14:08:06 [fsasaki]

felix: very similar

14:08:17 [fsasaki]

sebastian: TEI does not use xml:base either

14:08:50 [fsasaki]

action: Felix to add time stamps to the examples in the specification (ONGOING)

14:09:20 [fsasaki]

sebastian: timestamps are just for internal use, not for the final document

14:09:39 [fsasaki]

action: Yves to post a mail with the proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0156.html (DONE)

14:09:57 [fsasaki]

yves: everybody fine with the new title, so we use it.

14:10:06 [fsasaki]

action: Yves to post his thoughts on Jerry's comments on the member list. (DONE)

14:10:56 [fsasaki]

action: Yves to post a mail with the proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0156.html (DONE)

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14:11:11 [fsasaki]

yves: felix started implementing that in the tagset draft

14:11:42 [fsasaki]

yves: as for Jerry's comment and my reply, any opinions?

14:12:54 [fsasaki]

.. the only change I would make: the terminology for the "translate" attribute

14:13:05 [fsasaki]

.. it is more than "translatable" rather than "translate"

14:13:56 [fsasaki]

felix: how about the terminology "localizability"

14:14:41 [fsasaki]

yves: if it could do s.t. against the concerns of Jerry or others

14:15:32 [fsasaki]

sebastian: jerry wants better semantics for the markup, but that's hard to achieve

14:16:11 [fsasaki]

.. ITS is s.t. not for typical authors, rather for technical people

14:16:48 [fsasaki]

action: yves to send the reply to Jerry's comment

14:17:00 [fsasaki]

action: All to try out the "translate" test case to achieve compatibility of output (PENDING)

14:17:11 [fsasaki]

action: Christian and Felix to finish the text for the inclusion issue (DONE)

14:17:32 [fsasaki]

action: Felix to check how license should be handled in the schema. (PENDING)

14:17:51 [fsasaki]

felix: I contacted some people, no reply yet

14:18:02 [fsasaki]

action: Sebastian and Yves to work on integration of modularization section into best practices document

14:18:24 [fsasaki]

s/practices document/practices document (DONE)/

14:18:53 [fsasaki]

yves: felix wanted to have docbook as a modularization as well. The "within text" is not finished yet

14:19:03 [fsasaki]

.. it is very hard to do for docbook

14:19:37 [fsasaki]

sebastian: just say that these examples are illustrations

14:20:19 [fsasaki]

action: felix to add a sentence on "these examples are illustrative" to the modularization section

14:20:40 [fsasaki]

yves: I'll send felix the HTML file of docbook

14:21:49 [fsasaki]

action: Sebastian to get rid of "empties" from generated schema (DONE)

14:23:12 [fsasaki]

topic: having not more than one rules element per document

14:23:19 [fsasaki]

felix: is that constraint necessary?

14:23:42 [fsasaki]

sebastian: you may have several rules elements per document, for embedding

14:24:09 [fsasaki]

.. there is a lack of parallelism: you can have several rules with pointing, but not with adding in one doc

14:24:22 [fsasaki]

yves: we had a problem with the version conflicts

14:24:45 [fsasaki]

sebastian: you could say if you have element that must not have different versions

14:25:56 [fsasaki]

.. felix could change the text like that

14:25:59 [fsasaki]

yves: any other problems?

14:26:05 [fsasaki]

felix: the precedence between rules?

14:26:16 [fsasaki]

yves: can be solved by merging them in document order

14:27:10 [fsasaki]

felix: paragraph about rules: http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/itstagset-diff-20060414.html#selection-global

14:28:39 [fsasaki]

sebastian: felix, make sure that the URI for the BP document is the right one

14:30:03 [fsasaki]

felix: will do

14:31:34 [fsasaki]

yves: as fur the rules: everybody o.k. to allow them?

14:32:34 [fsasaki]

action: sebastian to make a reword of the paragraph on the change of the "not more than one rules element" requirement

14:33:00 [fsasaki]

topic: last call decision

14:33:16 [fsasaki]

yves: we have to decide this week

14:34:51 [fsasaki]

.. everybody fine with that?

14:35:05 [fsasaki]

.. people who don't agree should write a mail until Friday

14:36:30 [fsasaki]

topic: requirements document

14:36:45 [YvesS]

http://www.w3.org/International/its/requirements/Overview.html

14:37:35 [YvesS]

http://www.w3.org/International/its/techniques/its-techniques.html

14:37:37 [fsasaki]

s/requirements document/requirements document and best practices document/

14:37:48 [fsasaki]

yves: both documents are not last call docs

14:38:00 [fsasaki]

.. if you have problems, please mention that before Friday

14:40:46 [fsasaki]

felix: we need a transition request for the "best practices" doc, could you send a mail to the list?

14:40:51 [fsasaki]

yves: will do

14:41:55 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/05/10-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki

14:42:46 [fsasaki]

present: Diane, Felix, Sebastian, Yves

14:42:48 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/05/10-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki

14:43:09 [fsasaki]

topic: next call

14:43:15 [fsasaki]

yves: next week, same time

14:44:22 [Zakim]

-Sebastian_Rahtz

14:44:26 [Zakim]

-Felix

14:44:28 [Zakim]

-Yves

14:44:30 [fsasaki]

.. regrets from sebastian and felix

14:44:30 [Zakim]

-Diane_Stoick

14:44:31 [Zakim]

I18N_TS()10:00AM has ended

14:44:32 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/05/10-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki

14:44:32 [Zakim]

Attendees were Yves, Felix, Sebastian_Rahtz, Diane_Stoick

14:45:00 [Zakim]

I18N_TS()10:00AM has now started

14:45:07 [Zakim]

+??P0

14:45:18 [fsasaki]

zakim, dial felix-home

14:45:18 [Zakim]

ok, fsasaki; the call is being made

14:45:20 [Zakim]

+Felix

14:45:23 [Zakim]

-??P0

14:45:34 [chriLi]

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14:45:43 [fsasaki]

christian? ruf doch mal an

14:46:35 [Zakim]

+??P0

14:47:21 [Zakim]

-Felix

14:47:27 [fsasaki]

zakim, dial felix-home

14:47:27 [Zakim]

ok, fsasaki; the call is being made

14:47:28 [Zakim]

+Felix

14:53:19 [Zakim]

+Yves

14:54:24 [fsasaki]

topic: discussion on "more than one rules element" (with christian)

14:54:34 [fsasaki]

present: Chrisitan, Diane, Felix, Sebastian, Yves

14:54:44 [fsasaki]

yves summarizes the discussion

14:54:56 [fsasaki]

christian: when would you have one than more rules element?

14:55:13 [fsasaki]

yves: if you want to split them in various parts, or have inclusion (or not)

14:55:16 [fsasaki]

christian: great

14:55:43 [fsasaki]

sebastian's text proposal:

14:55:44 [fsasaki]

"If there is more than one <rules> element in an XML document,

14:55:44 [fsasaki]

the rules from each section are to be processed at the

14:55:44 [fsasaki]

same precedence level. The <rules> sections are to be read in document

14:55:44 [fsasaki]

order, and the ITS rules with them processed sequentially."

14:56:28 [fsasaki]

felix: we need the text on "there MUST be the same version"

14:56:34 [fsasaki]

christian: fine with that

14:56:59 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/05/10-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki

15:00:38 [Zakim]

-Yves

15:00:38 [Zakim]

-Felix

15:02:25 [Zakim]

-??P0

15:02:27 [Zakim]

I18N_TS()10:00AM has ended

15:02:31 [Zakim]

Attendees were Felix, Yves

15:12:30 [GoutamSaha]

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15:17:22 [YvesS]

Hi Goutam,

15:18:06 [fsasaki]

hi goutam

15:18:26 [YvesS]

I'm afraid, the agenda was incorrect with the time: I probably made the mistake of using a template of a email of the winter hours. Sorry.

15:18:45 [YvesS]

We discussed your feedback: and agreed to make the changes.

15:19:11 [YvesS]

from "may or may not" to "might"

15:23:02 [fsasaki]

yves? sorry, but the transition request for the best practices document has to be send on Friday, otherwise there is not enough time. sorry, but Could you send another mail?

15:24:32 [gsaha]

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15:57:50 [fsasaki]

zakim, bye

15:57:50 [Zakim]

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15:57:54 [fsasaki]

rrsagent, bye

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

I see 14 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/10-i18nits-actions.rdf :

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: all to review the xs:annotation elements in http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/its.xsd (ONGOING) [1]

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/10-i18nits-irc#T14-05-11

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Felix (possibly others) to look on the issue of xml:base, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0156.html (DONE) [2]

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/10-i18nits-irc#T14-05-36

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Felix to add time stamps to the examples in the specification (ONGOING) [3]

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/10-i18nits-irc#T14-08-50

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Yves to post a mail with the proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0156.html (DONE) [4]

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/10-i18nits-irc#T14-09-39

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Yves to post his thoughts on Jerry's comments on the member list. (DONE) [5]

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/10-i18nits-irc#T14-10-06

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Yves to post a mail with the proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0156.html (DONE) [6]

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/10-i18nits-irc#T14-10-56

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: yves to send the reply to Jerry's comment [7]

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/10-i18nits-irc#T14-16-48

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: All to try out the "translate" test case to achieve compatibility of output (PENDING) [8]

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/10-i18nits-irc#T14-17-00

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Christian and Felix to finish the text for the inclusion issue (DONE) [9]

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/10-i18nits-irc#T14-17-11

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Felix to check how license should be handled in the schema. (PENDING) [10]

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/10-i18nits-irc#T14-17-32

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Sebastian and Yves to work on integration of modularization section into best practices document [11]

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/10-i18nits-irc#T14-18-02

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: felix to add a sentence on "these examples are illustrative" to the modularization section [12]

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/10-i18nits-irc#T14-20-19

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Sebastian to get rid of "empties" from generated schema (DONE) [13]

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/10-i18nits-irc#T14-21-49

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: sebastian to make a reword of the paragraph on the change of the "not more than one rules element" requirement [14]

15:57:54 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/10-i18nits-irc#T14-32-34