12:59:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #htmltf
12:59:13 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/05/08-htmltf-irc
12:59:19 <RalphS> Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML TF
12:59:21 <Zakim> SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM has now started
12:59:28 <Zakim> +Ben_Adida
12:59:35 <RalphS> Chair: Ben
12:59:48 <Zakim> +Ralph
13:00:28 <RalphS> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006May/0004.html
13:00:53 <RalphS> Previous: 2006-05-01 http://www.w3.org/2006/05/01-htmltf-minutes.html
13:02:09 <RalphS> Regrets: Steven
13:11:01 <Zakim> +??P7
13:11:26 <RalphS> zakim, ??p7 is Mark
13:11:26 <Zakim> +Mark; got it
13:12:15 <RalphS> ? I'm getting 404 on http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/2006/05/information-resource-debate-and-rda.html
13:14:58 <RalphS> Topic: Information Resources and RDFa
13:16:11 <RalphS> Mark: it doesn't always seem easy to tell when the subject is a car or a Web page
13:17:29 <RalphS> ... current usage infers implicitly that a document that has both a dc.author and a geo.location property is likely talking about the author's location
13:17:37 <RalphS> Topic: Action Review
13:17:45 <MarkB_> MarkB_ has joined #htmltf
13:18:02 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben, Mark be ready on 15 May to discuss WWW2006 presentations [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/01-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
13:18:05 <RalphS> -- continues
13:18:09 <MarkB_> zakim, who is here?
13:18:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ben_Adida, Ralph, Mark
13:18:10 <Zakim> On IRC I see MarkB_, RRSAgent, benadida, Zakim, RalphS
13:18:33 <RalphS> Ben: the 3-minute talk will be the more challenging one
13:18:51 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben, Mark send outlines of their XTech and WWW2006 presentations this week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/01-htmltf-minutes.html#action05]
13:18:55 <RalphS> -- continues
13:19:06 <RalphS> Ben: I hope to send mine today
13:19:10 <RalphS> Mark: me too
13:19:20 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben start separate mail threads on remaining discussion topics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action04]
13:19:25 <RalphS> -- continues
13:19:37 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben to draft full response to Bjoern's 2004 email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-minutes.html#action03]
13:19:52 <RalphS> Ben: it's been more work than I'd planned to integrate comments from Mark
13:20:04 <RalphS> -- contines
13:20:09 <RalphS> -- continues
13:20:14 <RalphS> ACTION: once Steven sends editors' draft of XHTML2, all TF members take a look and comment on showstopper issues only [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]
13:20:17 <RalphS> -- continues
13:31:17 <RalphS> Topic: hGRDDL
13:33:11 <RalphS> Ben: (summarizing previous discussion) -- concern about using class attribute to create triples due to legacy usage in many existing documents
13:33:45 <RalphS> ... but hGRDDL approach allows an author of a new document to say explicitly in the profile attribute that this document is intended to have explicit semantics
13:34:19 <RalphS> Mark: sounds like a nice idea.  In which namespace are the profile URIs declared?
13:34:52 <RalphS> Ben: we would declare the specific profile URIs for XHTML1 and XHML2 documents 
13:35:23 <RalphS> ... RDEX Working Group [GRDDL] would need to collaborate with us on this
13:36:31 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Apr/0069.html Proposal: hGRDDL, an extraction from Microformats to RDFa
13:37:45 <RalphS> Ralph: RDEX Working Group is now renamed (in draft proposals) to GRDDL WG
13:38:14 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2005/10/swap3/rg34 draft GRDDL WG charter [Member-only link]
13:39:16 <RalphS> Ben: the RDFA.GRDDL.addProfile examples in my mail of 29 April should be considered as examples of adding _additional_ profiles above some XHTML 1.1 pre-declared ones
13:39:41 <RalphS> ... at the time I wrote that message I had not considered that XHTML 1.1 could declare its own default profiles as well
13:40:14 <RalphS> Mark: I think this is a much nicer way of getting around people writing "class='x'" and lots of other local intranet-only stuff that people do
13:41:24 <RalphS> ... could give authors a way to opt-out of QNames usage as well
13:43:14 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben write a prototype hGRDDL profile for XHTML 1
13:43:35 <RalphS> Mark: this would be a transformation step?
13:44:00 <RalphS> ... perhaps we should define this in terms of triples
13:44:44 <RalphS> ... e.g. if rel='stylesheet' really means rel='html:stylesheet' then it could be defined in transformation terms or in triple terms
13:45:04 <RalphS> Ben: I don't intend to specify the profile in terms of javascript but rather in DOM terms
13:45:22 <RalphS> ... the point is to do in-place substitution of the DOM tree
13:48:00 <RalphS> Ralph: I expect we'll attract more developers if we adopt a more operational specification
13:48:13 <RalphS> ... that is, hGRDDL is specified as a GRDDL transform of the DOM tree
13:49:07 <RalphS> ... a question, and possible requirement, for GRDDL WG is whether explicit pipelines of transforms can be declared; e.g. hGRDDL followed by RDFa to get triples
13:49:20 <RalphS> Mark: some of Jeremy's transformations have to be reworked
13:49:53 <RalphS> ... e.g. how rel='transformation' is handled
13:52:07 <RalphS> Mark: would be nice to define an hGRDDL transform at a high-level rather than in a specific implementation language
13:52:27 <RalphS> Ralph: yes, the GRDDL Note supports this; it is neutral w.r.t. the language in which any given transform is implemented
13:52:46 <RalphS> ... and it should not be a problem to provide multiple implementations of a given transform
13:53:19 <RalphS> ... so we could define hGRDDL in an abstract way and give javascript, XSLT, and other implementations
13:54:28 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben update hGRDDL issue to note a possible requirement for explicit pipelining in GRDDL
13:56:39 <RalphS> Ben: hGRDDL does give us a way to resolve our backwards compatibility constraints
13:56:55 <RalphS> Topic: other stuff
13:57:40 <RalphS> Mark: after working out details of <head about="">, I realized that <body about="#"> would be a way to say the triples in the body are about what the body is about
13:58:49 <Zakim> -Mark
13:58:50 <RalphS> next meeting: 15 May, 1400 UTC
13:58:54 <Zakim> -Ben_Adida
13:58:55 <RalphS> s/1400/1300/
13:58:57 <RalphS> adjourned
13:59:00 <Zakim> -Ralph
13:59:02 <Zakim> SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM has ended
13:59:05 <Zakim> Attendees were Ben_Adida, Ralph, Mark
13:59:41 <RalphS> rrsagent, please make record public
13:59:49 <RalphS> rrsagent, please draft minutes
13:59:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/05/08-htmltf-minutes.html RalphS
15:39:08 <Zakim> Zakim has left #htmltf
17:41:05 <RalphS> rrsagent, bye
17:41:05 <RRSAgent> I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/08-htmltf-actions.rdf :
17:41:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben, Mark be ready on 15 May to discuss WWW2006 presentations [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/01-htmltf-minutes.html#action04] [1]
17:41:05 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/08-htmltf-irc#T13-18-02
17:41:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben, Mark send outlines of their XTech and WWW2006 presentations this week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/01-htmltf-minutes.html#action05] [2]
17:41:05 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/08-htmltf-irc#T13-18-51
17:41:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben start separate mail threads on remaining discussion topics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action04] [3]
17:41:05 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/08-htmltf-irc#T13-19-20
17:41:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to draft full response to Bjoern's 2004 email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-minutes.html#action03] [4]
17:41:05 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/08-htmltf-irc#T13-19-37
17:41:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: once Steven sends editors' draft of XHTML2, all TF members take a look and comment on showstopper issues only [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action01] [5]
17:41:05 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/08-htmltf-irc#T13-20-14
17:41:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben write a prototype hGRDDL profile for XHTML 1 [6]
17:41:05 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/08-htmltf-irc#T13-43-14
17:41:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben update hGRDDL issue to note a possible requirement for explicit pipelining in GRDDL [7]
17:41:05 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/08-htmltf-irc#T13-54-28