IRC log of htmltf on 2006-05-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:59:13 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #htmltf

12:59:13 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/05/08-htmltf-irc

12:59:19 [RalphS]

Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML TF

12:59:21 [Zakim]

SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM has now started

12:59:28 [Zakim]

+Ben_Adida

12:59:35 [RalphS]

Chair: Ben

12:59:48 [Zakim]

+Ralph

13:00:28 [RalphS]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006May/0004.html

13:00:53 [RalphS]

Previous: 2006-05-01 http://www.w3.org/2006/05/01-htmltf-minutes.html

13:02:09 [RalphS]

Regrets: Steven

13:11:01 [Zakim]

+??P7

13:11:26 [RalphS]

zakim, ??p7 is Mark

13:11:26 [Zakim]

+Mark; got it

13:12:15 [RalphS]

? I'm getting 404 on http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/2006/05/information-resource-debate-and-rda.html

13:14:58 [RalphS]

Topic: Information Resources and RDFa

13:16:11 [RalphS]

Mark: it doesn't always seem easy to tell when the subject is a car or a Web page

13:17:29 [RalphS]

... current usage infers implicitly that a document that has both a dc.author and a geo.location property is likely talking about the author's location

13:17:37 [RalphS]

Topic: Action Review

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13:18:02 [RalphS]

ACTION: Ben, Mark be ready on 15 May to discuss WWW2006 presentations [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/01-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]

13:18:05 [RalphS]

-- continues

13:18:09 [MarkB_]

zakim, who is here?

13:18:09 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Ben_Adida, Ralph, Mark

13:18:10 [Zakim]

On IRC I see MarkB_, RRSAgent, benadida, Zakim, RalphS

13:18:33 [RalphS]

Ben: the 3-minute talk will be the more challenging one

13:18:51 [RalphS]

ACTION: Ben, Mark send outlines of their XTech and WWW2006 presentations this week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/01-htmltf-minutes.html#action05]

13:18:55 [RalphS]

-- continues

13:19:06 [RalphS]

Ben: I hope to send mine today

13:19:10 [RalphS]

Mark: me too

13:19:20 [RalphS]

ACTION: Ben start separate mail threads on remaining discussion topics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action04]

13:19:25 [RalphS]

-- continues

13:19:37 [RalphS]

ACTION: Ben to draft full response to Bjoern's 2004 email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-minutes.html#action03]

13:19:52 [RalphS]

Ben: it's been more work than I'd planned to integrate comments from Mark

13:20:04 [RalphS]

-- contines

13:20:09 [RalphS]

-- continues

13:20:14 [RalphS]

ACTION: once Steven sends editors' draft of XHTML2, all TF members take a look and comment on showstopper issues only [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]

13:20:17 [RalphS]

-- continues

13:31:17 [RalphS]

Topic: hGRDDL

13:33:11 [RalphS]

Ben: (summarizing previous discussion) -- concern about using class attribute to create triples due to legacy usage in many existing documents

13:33:45 [RalphS]

... but hGRDDL approach allows an author of a new document to say explicitly in the profile attribute that this document is intended to have explicit semantics

13:34:19 [RalphS]

Mark: sounds like a nice idea. In which namespace are the profile URIs declared?

13:34:52 [RalphS]

Ben: we would declare the specific profile URIs for XHTML1 and XHML2 documents

13:35:23 [RalphS]

... RDEX Working Group [GRDDL] would need to collaborate with us on this

13:36:31 [RalphS]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Apr/0069.html Proposal: hGRDDL, an extraction from Microformats to RDFa

13:37:45 [RalphS]

Ralph: RDEX Working Group is now renamed (in draft proposals) to GRDDL WG

13:38:14 [RalphS]

-> http://www.w3.org/2005/10/swap3/rg34 draft GRDDL WG charter [Member-only link]

13:39:16 [RalphS]

Ben: the RDFA.GRDDL.addProfile examples in my mail of 29 April should be considered as examples of adding _additional_ profiles above some XHTML 1.1 pre-declared ones

13:39:41 [RalphS]

... at the time I wrote that message I had not considered that XHTML 1.1 could declare its own default profiles as well

13:40:14 [RalphS]

Mark: I think this is a much nicer way of getting around people writing "class='x'" and lots of other local intranet-only stuff that people do

13:41:24 [RalphS]

... could give authors a way to opt-out of QNames usage as well

13:43:14 [RalphS]

ACTION: Ben write a prototype hGRDDL profile for XHTML 1

13:43:35 [RalphS]

Mark: this would be a transformation step?

13:44:00 [RalphS]

... perhaps we should define this in terms of triples

13:44:44 [RalphS]

... e.g. if rel='stylesheet' really means rel='html:stylesheet' then it could be defined in transformation terms or in triple terms

13:45:04 [RalphS]

Ben: I don't intend to specify the profile in terms of javascript but rather in DOM terms

13:45:22 [RalphS]

... the point is to do in-place substitution of the DOM tree

13:48:00 [RalphS]

Ralph: I expect we'll attract more developers if we adopt a more operational specification

13:48:13 [RalphS]

... that is, hGRDDL is specified as a GRDDL transform of the DOM tree

13:49:07 [RalphS]

... a question, and possible requirement, for GRDDL WG is whether explicit pipelines of transforms can be declared; e.g. hGRDDL followed by RDFa to get triples

13:49:20 [RalphS]

Mark: some of Jeremy's transformations have to be reworked

13:49:53 [RalphS]

... e.g. how rel='transformation' is handled

13:52:07 [RalphS]

Mark: would be nice to define an hGRDDL transform at a high-level rather than in a specific implementation language

13:52:27 [RalphS]

Ralph: yes, the GRDDL Note supports this; it is neutral w.r.t. the language in which any given transform is implemented

13:52:46 [RalphS]

... and it should not be a problem to provide multiple implementations of a given transform

13:53:19 [RalphS]

... so we could define hGRDDL in an abstract way and give javascript, XSLT, and other implementations

13:54:28 [RalphS]

ACTION: Ben update hGRDDL issue to note a possible requirement for explicit pipelining in GRDDL

13:56:39 [RalphS]

Ben: hGRDDL does give us a way to resolve our backwards compatibility constraints

13:56:55 [RalphS]

Topic: other stuff

13:57:40 [RalphS]

Mark: after working out details of <head about="">, I realized that <body about="#"> would be a way to say the triples in the body are about what the body is about

13:58:49 [Zakim]

-Mark

13:58:50 [RalphS]

next meeting: 15 May, 1400 UTC

13:58:54 [Zakim]

-Ben_Adida

13:58:55 [RalphS]

s/1400/1300/

13:58:57 [RalphS]

adjourned

13:59:00 [Zakim]

-Ralph

13:59:02 [Zakim]

SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM has ended

13:59:05 [Zakim]

Attendees were Ben_Adida, Ralph, Mark

13:59:41 [RalphS]

rrsagent, please make record public

13:59:49 [RalphS]

rrsagent, please draft minutes

13:59:49 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/05/08-htmltf-minutes.html RalphS

15:39:08 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #htmltf

17:41:05 [RalphS]

rrsagent, bye

17:41:05 [RRSAgent]

I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/08-htmltf-actions.rdf :

17:41:05 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben, Mark be ready on 15 May to discuss WWW2006 presentations [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/01-htmltf-minutes.html#action04] [1]

17:41:05 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/08-htmltf-irc#T13-18-02

17:41:05 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben, Mark send outlines of their XTech and WWW2006 presentations this week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/01-htmltf-minutes.html#action05] [2]

17:41:05 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/08-htmltf-irc#T13-18-51

17:41:05 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben start separate mail threads on remaining discussion topics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action04] [3]

17:41:05 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/08-htmltf-irc#T13-19-20

17:41:05 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben to draft full response to Bjoern's 2004 email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-minutes.html#action03] [4]

17:41:05 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/08-htmltf-irc#T13-19-37

17:41:05 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: once Steven sends editors' draft of XHTML2, all TF members take a look and comment on showstopper issues only [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action01] [5]

17:41:05 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/08-htmltf-irc#T13-20-14

17:41:05 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben write a prototype hGRDDL profile for XHTML 1 [6]

17:41:05 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/08-htmltf-irc#T13-43-14

17:41:05 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben update hGRDDL issue to note a possible requirement for explicit pipelining in GRDDL [7]

17:41:05 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/08-htmltf-irc#T13-54-28