13:43:31 RRSAgent has joined #i18nits 13:43:31 logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc 13:43:39 Zakim has joined #i18nits 13:43:44 zakim, this will be i18n 13:43:44 ok, fsasaki; I see I18N_TS()10:00AM scheduled to start in 17 minutes 13:43:53 meeting: i18n ITS working group 13:43:56 chair: Yves 13:43:58 scribe: Felix 13:44:02 scribeNick: fsasaki 13:44:21 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0095.html 13:44:34 rrsagent, make log public 13:51:21 Hi Yves, with respect to our last call draft (see http://www.w3.org/2005/08/transition?docstatus=lc-wd-tr , see "Negotiation of Review Schedule") , we have to contact the chairs of the working groups from which we want feedback. Maybe we should fix a publication date today, and also the groups we want to get feedback from. 13:52:43 with respect to publishing on the 18th: If we go for that date, I would propose to send the publication request on the 15th 13:54:45 Hi Felix. 13:54:55 Hi Yves 13:55:08 OK: let try to get the pub date fixed today. 13:55:20 18 sounds fine by me. 13:55:22 o.k. 13:58:13 I18N_TS()10:00AM has now started 13:58:19 +??P1 13:58:34 zakim, dial felix-home 13:58:34 ok, fsasaki; the call is being made 13:58:36 -??P1 13:58:38 +??P1 13:58:39 +Felix 14:00:22 zakim, who is there? 14:00:23 I don't understand your question, YvesS. 14:00:23 chriLi has joined #i18nits 14:00:30 zakim, who is here? 14:00:30 On the phone I see Yves, Felix 14:00:33 On IRC I see chriLi, Zakim, RRSAgent, YvesS, fsasaki 14:01:24 zakim, who is here? 14:01:24 On the phone I see Yves, Felix 14:01:25 On IRC I see chriLi, Zakim, RRSAgent, YvesS, fsasaki 14:01:35 diane has joined #i18nits 14:02:14 +Sebastian_Rahtz 14:02:18 +??P4 14:02:56 zakim, who is here? 14:02:58 On the phone I see Yves, Felix, Sebastian_Rahtz, Christian 14:03:02 On IRC I see diane, chriLi, Zakim, RRSAgent, YvesS, fsasaki 14:03:09 rahtz has joined #i18nits 14:03:50 +Diane_Stoick 14:04:01 zakim, who is here? 14:04:04 On the phone I see Yves, Felix, Sebastian_Rahtz, Christian, Diane_Stoick 14:04:05 On IRC I see rahtz, diane, chriLi, Zakim, RRSAgent, YvesS, fsasaki 14:04:24 topic: action items 14:04:37 action: Felix to write a paragraph about the version attribute (DONE) 14:04:53 mail with the paragraph: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0037.html 14:05:18 yves: any comments on this? 14:06:19 sebastian: I'll send some English corrections, except that it is fine 14:07:20 felix: schematron rules at http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/its-constraints-check-schematron.xml 14:07:36 .. checks also the version constraints 14:07:56 yves: version topic can be closed? 14:08:17 -Sebastian_Rahtz 14:08:18 sebastian: bearing in mind it is not implemented in the examples, the spec and the specification 14:09:04 action: Yves to send a mail to ask for the dates of the next f2f (DONE) 14:09:14 yves: nobody against it, we will decide next meeting 14:09:15 +Sebastian_Rahtz 14:09:34 action: Everybody to think about which W3C working groups shoud comment on the tagset last call draft (ONGOING) 14:09:43 yves: need also decide a publication date today 14:09:53 .. we have already a list of groups. 14:10:14 .. Felix proposed the 18th of May, before the AC meeting 14:10:22 .. the publication request would be on the 15th 14:10:49 .. the question is: will we have time to implement the changes and to fix everything? 14:13:15 felix: would be fine with me 14:13:32 christian: changes for the non-normative sections will not be too many, I'll be able to do it 14:13:37 yves: so the 15th is o.k. 14:13:58 .. so we should have a consensus on the 10th, that is in two weeks 14:14:29 .. we can also vote via mail, if somebody can't make that meeting 14:14:44 .. o.k., so we go for the 18th for publication 14:14:53 action: Discussion on versionning (DONE) 14:15:10 action: All make sure "rules" is using non-prefix attributes in all samples and test (ONGOING) 14:15:21 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0088.html 14:15:23 action: Christian to propose a wording for the inclusion issue (ONGOING) 14:16:07 christian: we all have consensus, only the wording is difficult 14:16:21 .. mabye we wording which felix proposed raises more questions than it answers 14:16:34 .. e.g. questions from non-technical people 14:17:17 .. so I'd propose: have the wording what Felix proposed, plus a note I would create 14:17:42 yves: the original wording from Christian seems to have a different interpretation than the one Felix proposed 14:18:08 christian: we want to say: the resolution of inclusions is outside of an ITS processor 14:18:36 .. e.g. there is no need for an ITS processor to follow conref 14:18:40 GoutamSaha has joined #i18nits 14:19:21 sebastian: we want to say "ITS gives you no advice, it is up to you what you do" 14:19:30 yves: and ITS does not rely on whose inclusions? 14:19:33 sebastian: yes 14:20:19 yves: I liked Felix wording because it said "you MUST NOT take into account the inclusion thing" 14:21:12 sebastian: if you apply an XInclude processor to your document, you would get another document with possibly two rules 14:21:34 yves: that would be illegal 14:22:59 sebastian: it is the users responsibilty, if they break things 14:23:34 action: christian and felix to finish the text for the inclusion issue (felix creates normative part, christian non-normative part) 14:24:11 action: Christian to integrate changes in section 1.1 and 1.2 within 2 weeks. (PENDING) 14:24:21 action: Felix to change the ODD to have no-prefixed attributes at the rules element (with SR help). (DONE) 14:24:30 action: Felix to check how license should be handled in the schema. (PENDING) 14:24:48 action: Felix to produce descriptions for each entry in the schema. (ONGOING) 14:25:03 sebastian: I did most of the stuff, there is s.t. to do mainly in the ruby section 14:25:35 action: Felix to specify the "required-ness" of attributes when needed in the schemas (PENDING) 14:26:08 sebastian: I think most of those things are sorted, now the local and global attributes are in different namespaces 14:26:50 christian: how about defaults? 14:27:15 sebastian: Since the don't exist in xml schema, we can't use them 14:27:32 action: Sebastian and Felix to add comment in ODD to have it inside the generated schema to explain how it was created. (ONGOING) 14:27:49 sebastian: we just need to check that, felix will make a first draft of the words 14:28:03 action: Sebastian to get rid of "empties" from generated schema (PENDING) 14:28:14 action: Yves to change its implementation to fix its:translate/translate (DONE) 14:28:25 action: Yves to send his docbook+ITS schema and the description of it to Felix; (DONE) 14:29:47 action: Felix to integrate docbook+ITS into the tagset draft (DROPPED) 14:30:06 action: Sebastian and yves to work on integration of modularization section into techniques document 14:30:15 action: Yves to work on the Requirements document for publication at the same time as the Last call of the specification. (DONE) 14:30:25 yves: please look at new version 14:30:40 .. I did not put everything which was on the wiki, since some articles were not finished 14:31:03 .. please have a look and send feedback about the requirements document this week 14:31:36 action: All to try out the "translate" test case to achieve compatibility of output (ONGOING) 14:31:51 yves: tried to come up with something, will post that soon 14:31:54 diane has joined #i18nits 14:32:09 .. this has lower priority 14:32:30 action: All to work on examples: Christian takes 1-9, Felix 10-18, Sebastian 19-28, Yves 29 - 37 (ONGOING) 14:32:40 sebastian: I checked that all are valid 14:33:17 .. still people should look at them and see if they make sense, or could be improved 14:33:35 christian: where are the examples? 14:33:54 sebastian: I send a copy around 14:34:06 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0089.html 14:34:08 action: Christian to change the statement about the requirements in the introduction (DONE) 14:34:48 christian: who will confirm the formal name? 14:35:24 yves: richard has to check the name 14:35:32 .. any comments beside the name? 14:36:10 .. that name will be a bibliographical reference, so changing the reference will automatically update the paragraph? 14:36:14 christian: not sure 14:37:13 action: Christian to write s.t. about the "process=no" flag proposal for the tagset draft (DONE) 14:37:41 felix: let's discuss that later, after the other action items 14:37:51 action: Felix to add a rbspanPointer attribute to rubyRule (PENDING) 14:38:04 action: Felix to change the RFC 2119 keywords to upper case (DONE) 14:38:13 felix: sebastian did that 14:38:33 action: Felix to cut sec. 7 out of the tagset draft, to make it ready for the techniques document (DONE) 14:38:39 felix: done by sebastian 14:39:20 action: Richard to discuss the third conformance level of ruby to the core working group (DROPPED) 14:39:43 action: Richard to discuss with people whether we should change the title of the "techniques doc" to "best practices", (PENDING) 14:39:48 yves: very important 14:40:07 action: Richard to give Yves the latest stylesheets and css etc. for the techniques document (PENDING) 14:40:27 yves: that action item can be dropped 14:40:30 action: Sebastian to validate the examples in the spec (DONE) 14:40:41 action: Yves to explore the reference attributes (termRef, locRef) with regard to spliting URI "base versus fragment" (PENDING) 14:40:49 action: Yves to rework the requirements document (DONE) 14:41:04 topic: "Attaching information to the object associated to a selected node" 14:41:15 yves: the process="no" or "yes" issue 14:41:42 the bug is here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0089.html 14:41:58 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0094.html 14:42:30 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0097.html 14:42:39 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0102.html 14:42:43 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0103.html 14:43:31 chriLi has joined #i18nits 14:44:18 christian: in Oxford we found out two things: 14:44:34 .. we want to attach an information like its:translate="no" related to non-textual data 14:44:48 .. the current wording for default selections for example would not work for cases we looked at 14:44:58 .. e.g. the image data which needs to be localized 14:45:12 .. the proposal I wrote tried to explain the problem which we want to solve 14:45:26 .. we discussed creating a specific marker for rules 14:45:48 .. the marker would tell the ITS processor that the information should not be processed 14:46:09 .. Felix concerns: on one hand, it is strange, that an image should be translated 14:46:32 .. another concerned: the comparison between xsd and "don't process" is not appropriate 14:46:46 .. Felix also mentioned related to inheritance and precedence 14:47:00 .. these concerns need to be addressed 14:47:27 .. in the mail http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0103.html , there was also the idea to have an additional data category 14:47:34 .. e.g. which could be named "localize" 14:47:50 .. it would be similar to translate, but would have different default selections for example 14:48:28 yves: we did talk about a new data category, because if you do an assignement locally, you cannot use a different attribute 14:50:48 felix: what should be selected by XPath? e.g. the @src attribute 14:52:15 yves: should we have the 14:52:23 .. that data category for now 14:52:31 felix: maybe it is too late? 14:52:42 sebastian: christian is right to bring the issue up 14:53:36 .. how about having a paragraph before the 18th? 14:54:05 .. and see if we resolve the inheritance / precedence and other issues with a new data category 14:54:11 felix: would be fine with me 14:54:27 yves: could you think about this, christian? 14:55:18 christian: I will write the paragraph explaining the issue 14:56:26 action: christian to write a paragraph describing the requirement for ITS information about non-textual objects 14:57:04 felix: to be integrated in the tagset document 14:57:28 christian: it is already in the mail I wrote 14:57:37 .. where should it be in the draft? 14:58:04 yves: in the translate section 14:59:16 felix: what part from christians mail should be integrated? 14:59:33 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki 15:00:09 >> In certain cases, it is necessary to attach ITS information to element 15:00:46 yves: I will think about the inheritance issue 15:00:59 .. at least we will talk about it in the draft 15:01:20 topic: within text 15:01:31 yves: we need to make some changes to within text 15:01:46 .. Andrzej almost convinced me that we need the subflow attribute 15:02:05 .. I would provide Felix with text about that 15:02:19 .. by Friday 15:02:40 action: Yves to write text about within text (including the subflow attribute) by Friday 15:02:53 topic: other business 15:03:46 felix: I'll be on holiday next week 15:04:17 .. on Wednesday at the call, but holiday on Thursday and Friday 15:04:27 Yves: also will have holiday, will try to be at the meeting 15:04:49 yves: should we meet on Friday? 15:05:01 Felix: we can work on our own 15:05:10 -Sebastian_Rahtz 15:05:17 -Yves 15:05:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki 15:05:23 -Christian 15:05:25 -Diane_Stoick 15:05:27 -Felix 15:05:31 I18N_TS()10:00AM has ended 15:05:33 Attendees were Felix, Yves, Sebastian_Rahtz, Christian, Diane_Stoick 15:05:39 present: Christian, Diane, Goutam, Sebastian, Yves 15:05:44 regrets: Richard 15:05:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki 15:06:22 present: Christian, Diane, Felix, Goutam, Sebastian, Yves 15:06:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki 15:10:52 zakim, bye 15:10:52 Zakim has left #i18nits 15:11:11 rrsagent, bye 15:11:11 I see 34 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-actions.rdf : 15:11:11 ACTION: Felix to write a paragraph about the version attribute (DONE) [1] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-04-37 15:11:11 ACTION: Yves to send a mail to ask for the dates of the next f2f (DONE) [2] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-09-04 15:11:11 ACTION: Everybody to think about which W3C working groups shoud comment on the tagset last call draft (ONGOING) [3] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-09-34 15:11:11 ACTION: Discussion on versionning (DONE) [4] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-14-53 15:11:11 ACTION: All make sure "rules" is using non-prefix attributes in all samples and test (ONGOING) [5] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-15-10 15:11:11 ACTION: Christian to propose a wording for the inclusion issue (ONGOING) [6] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-15-23 15:11:11 ACTION: christian and felix to finish the text for the inclusion issue (felix creates normative part, christian non-normative part) [7] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-23-34 15:11:11 ACTION: Christian to integrate changes in section 1.1 and 1.2 within 2 weeks. (PENDING) [8] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-24-11 15:11:11 ACTION: Felix to change the ODD to have no-prefixed attributes at the rules element (with SR help). (DONE) [9] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-24-21 15:11:11 ACTION: Felix to check how license should be handled in the schema. (PENDING) [10] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-24-30 15:11:11 ACTION: Felix to produce descriptions for each entry in the schema. (ONGOING) [11] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-24-48 15:11:11 ACTION: Felix to specify the "required-ness" of attributes when needed in the schemas (PENDING) [12] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-25-35 15:11:11 ACTION: Sebastian and Felix to add comment in ODD to have it inside the generated schema to explain how it was created. (ONGOING) [13] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-27-32 15:11:11 ACTION: Sebastian to get rid of "empties" from generated schema (PENDING) [14] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-28-03 15:11:11 ACTION: Yves to change its implementation to fix its:translate/translate (DONE) [15] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-28-14 15:11:11 ACTION: Yves to send his docbook+ITS schema and the description of it to Felix; (DONE) [16] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-28-25 15:11:11 ACTION: Felix to integrate docbook+ITS into the tagset draft (DROPPED) [17] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-29-47 15:11:11 ACTION: Sebastian and yves to work on integration of modularization section into techniques document [18] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-30-06 15:11:11 ACTION: Yves to work on the Requirements document for publication at the same time as the Last call of the specification. (DONE) [19] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-30-15 15:11:11 ACTION: All to try out the "translate" test case to achieve compatibility of output (ONGOING) [20] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-31-36 15:11:11 ACTION: All to work on examples: Christian takes 1-9, Felix 10-18, Sebastian 19-28, Yves 29 - 37 (ONGOING) [21] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-32-30 15:11:11 ACTION: Christian to change the statement about the requirements in the introduction (DONE) [22] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-34-08 15:11:11 ACTION: Christian to write s.t. about the "process=no" flag proposal for the tagset draft (DONE) [23] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-37-13 15:11:11 ACTION: Felix to add a rbspanPointer attribute to rubyRule (PENDING) [24] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-37-51 15:11:11 ACTION: Felix to change the RFC 2119 keywords to upper case (DONE) [25] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-38-04 15:11:11 ACTION: Felix to cut sec. 7 out of the tagset draft, to make it ready for the techniques document (DONE) [26] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-38-33 15:11:11 ACTION: Richard to discuss the third conformance level of ruby to the core working group (DROPPED) [27] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-39-20 15:11:11 ACTION: Richard to discuss with people whether we should change the title of the "techniques doc" to "best practices", (PENDING) [28] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-39-43 15:11:11 ACTION: Richard to give Yves the latest stylesheets and css etc. for the techniques document (PENDING) [29] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-40-07 15:11:11 ACTION: Sebastian to validate the examples in the spec (DONE) [30] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-40-30 15:11:11 ACTION: Yves to explore the reference attributes (termRef, locRef) with regard to spliting URI "base versus fragment" (PENDING) [31] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-40-41 15:11:11 ACTION: Yves to rework the requirements document (DONE) [32] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-40-49 15:11:11 ACTION: christian to write a paragraph describing the requirement for ITS information about non-textual objects [33] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T14-56-26 15:11:11 ACTION: Yves to write text about within text (including the subflow attribute) by Friday [34] 15:11:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/26-i18nits-irc#T15-02-40 15:11:14 fsasaki has left #i18nits