IRC log of ua on 2006-04-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:23:45 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
17:23:45 [RRSAgent]
logging to
17:24:19 [jallan]
zakim, this will be WAI_UA
17:24:19 [Zakim]
ok, jallan; I see WAI_UAWG()2:00PM scheduled to start in 36 minutes
17:31:47 [jallan]
agenda+ review outstanding action items:
17:33:08 [jallan]
agenda+Review UAAG - WCAG correlation table. We need to be sure we have a P1
17:33:09 [jallan]
UAAG checkpoint for each WCAG Level 1 Success Criteria
17:33:27 [jallan]
agenda+Review UAAG references/dependencies on WCAG 1.0
17:33:28 [jallan]
17:37:08 [jallan]
meeting: W3C User Agent Teleconference for 20 April 2006
17:37:46 [jallan]
Chair: Jim Allan
17:40:52 [jallan]
agenda: Mobile Web Best Practices Last Call (comments by May 3)
17:40:52 [jallan]
17:41:06 [jallan]
agenda+ Mobile Web Best Practices Last Call (comments by May 3)
17:41:07 [jallan]
17:44:47 [jallan]
agenda+ WebAPI - Latest Working Draft of DOM3 Events:
17:44:47 [jallan] Discussion on discovery of event listeners (related to UAAG requirements)
17:44:47 [jallan]
.. beginning in March
17:44:47 [jallan] and .. continuing in April
17:44:47 [jallan]
17:59:09 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has now started
17:59:16 [Zakim]
18:01:54 [Zakim]
18:02:29 [cklaws]
cklaws has joined #ua
18:02:31 [JR]
JR has joined #ua
18:03:15 [Zakim]
18:04:21 [JR]
Scribe: JR
18:04:39 [JR]
Meeting: WAI UA
18:05:33 [JR]
zakim, agenda?
18:05:33 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
18:05:34 [Zakim]
1. review outstanding action items: [from jallan]
18:05:36 [Zakim]
2. Review UAAG - WCAG correlation table. We need to be sure we have a P1 [from jallan]
18:05:37 [Zakim]
3. Review UAAG references/dependencies on WCAG 1.0 [from jallan]
18:05:38 [Zakim]
4. Mobile Web Best Practices Last Call (comments by May 3) [from jallan]
18:05:39 [Zakim]
5. WebAPI - Latest Working Draft of DOM3 Events: [from jallan]
18:06:46 [cklaws]
cklaws has joined #ua
18:07:10 [JR]
Zakim, take up agendum 1
18:07:10 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "review outstanding action items:" taken up [from jallan]
18:08:24 [JR]
CL: Becky Gibson is the accessibility expert on WebAPI at IBM.
18:08:37 [JR]
CL: She does DHTML techniques for WCAG
18:09:05 [JR]
CL: She also did DHTML demo that Rich shows - spreadsheet, etc
18:11:34 [JR]
Zakim, take up agendum 2
18:11:34 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Review UAAG - WCAG correlation table. We need to be sure we have a P1" taken up [from jallan]
18:12:57 [JR]
CL: CL went through looking for additrional correlations and making comments on ones that JA had identified.
18:13:35 [JR]
CL: In some case pointed at things that UAAG could add...
18:13:52 [JR]
CL: WCAG goes pretty specific sometimes- contrast ratios etc.
18:14:53 [JR]
JA: What do mean adding?
18:15:05 [JR]
CL: Maybe to techs so we don't have to open guidelines.
18:15:50 [JR]
CL: We also have some other things that are different.
18:16:04 [JR]
JA: Do you see some things that are totally missed?
18:16:20 [JR]
CL: We usually cover at least part of everything.
18:16:51 [JR]
CL: i.e. under volume control we don't say ability to control background vs. foreground sound volume
18:17:09 [JR]
JA: It was discussed but eventually not put in UAAG
18:20:31 [JR]
JA: In UA - user should be able to control different sources independently e.g. by a mixer
18:23:21 [JR]
JR: Points out that UAAG 4.8 may replace 1.4.2...
18:23:46 [JR]
CL: But UAAG doesn't separate background fromforeground.
18:24:38 [JR]
JA: Then their 1.4.4 seems to apply also to one source
18:25:41 [JR]
CL: UA just says allow different sources to be controlled - so we should be ok.
18:25:52 [JR]
JA: Other stuff?
18:26:10 [JR]
CL: Some more stuff to add - like contrast rations perhaps to techs
18:28:33 [JR]
JR: Backs up CL that some stuff in just a "bonus"
18:30:30 [JR]
JR: Points out that "1.2.6 Extended audio descriptions of video are provided for prerecorded multimedia. " may need additional UAAG suppport
18:31:45 [JR]
CL: This could be a UAAG tech: "doing more" type thing
18:32:51 [JR]
SMIL may be moving towars some support
18:33:28 [JR]
action JA: Incorporate CL's stuff into table and balance JR's ideas.
18:34:54 [jallan]
JR: Chaals talked about relaxing content requirements. in correlation: 3 modes - replaces or supercedes WCAG requirements, 2- supports WCAG, 3 Bonus for WCAG
18:35:34 [JR]
JA: Was concerned with language - replaced.
18:37:03 [jallan]
CL: do all UA's have to have the feature in order to use some content
18:37:47 [jallan]
JR: if you can make assumption that a particular browser or set of browsers have this feature then can use it.
18:38:13 [jallan]
CL: many times it is a UA with an assitive technology
18:38:50 [jallan]
CL: claimant may claim conformance but actual functionality may not exist
18:42:47 [jallan]
JR: WCAG 2.3.1 Content does not violate the general flash threshold or the red flash threshold.
18:43:11 [jallan]
and in UAAG 3.2 Toggle audio, video, animated images (P1) may replace WCAG.
18:43:36 [jallan]
CL: it depends on how the blinking flashing is implemented.
18:44:26 [jallan]
JA: gif animation, then ESC in browser will stop it, but if its javascript or flash-tm then browser can't turn it off
18:45:12 [jallan]
CL: if userageent cannot control the flashing then content creator must take into concideration.
18:45:46 [JR]
CL: Has looked into responsibility split between author and ua...
18:45:49 [jallan]
CL: whose responsibility is it to handle things - Author or Agent
18:45:52 [JR]
in most cases its shared....
18:46:44 [JR]
CL: Millions of content authors who all care about their own sites, but only a few ua developers who can't try every site
18:47:21 [JR]
JA: Maybe we can add extra verbiage around what JR labewlled as "replace"
18:47:55 [JR]
JA: Some things the UA MUST have in place....
18:48:18 [JR]
JA: Other things like flashing are shared responsbility but UA can't do on own.
18:49:57 [jallan]
author know specifically what they are trying to do, and are testing against guidelines and specific tools. Useragent and assitive technology can only address controls and features in a general way
18:50:59 [JR]
CL: Just like ability to control audio sources, but not combined sources
18:51:43 [JR]
JA: Maybe "Support" items must be in place...
18:52:32 [JR]
JA: then other things "share", other things "extend"
18:52:44 [JR]
JR: said that
18:52:46 [jallan]
JR: support - must have UAAG compliant brower to display content
18:53:23 [jallan]
JR: shared - shared functionality between content author and user agent functionality
18:53:54 [JR]
JA: May take a week or 2 to finish this doc - will be the basis of our comments to wcag
18:54:49 [JR]
CL: so would this go into their "baseline" language
18:54:55 [JR]
JA: Yes think so
18:59:32 [JR]
JA: JA let's work in parallel
18:59:51 [Zakim]
18:59:54 [Zakim]
18:59:55 [Zakim]
18:59:57 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has ended
18:59:58 [Zakim]
Attendees were Jim_Allan, [IBM], Jan_Richards
19:00:11 [JR]
RRSAgent, make minutes
19:00:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate JR
19:00:19 [JR]
RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
19:01:19 [JR]
Zakim, bye
19:01:20 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
19:01:26 [JR]
RRSAgent, bye
19:01:26 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in :
19:01:26 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JA to Incorporate CL's stuff into table and balance JR's ideas. [1]
19:01:26 [RRSAgent]
recorded in