IRC log of dawg on 2006-04-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:27:49 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:27:49 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:29:24 [DanC]
Zakim, this is dawg
14:29:24 [Zakim]
ok, DanC; that matches SW_DAWG()10:30AM
14:29:30 [DanC]
Zakim, call DanC-BOS
14:29:30 [Zakim]
ok, DanC; the call is being made
14:29:31 [Zakim]
14:29:50 [Zakim]
14:29:52 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P1 is me
14:29:52 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
14:30:03 [EliasT]
Zakim, IBMCambridge is me
14:30:03 [Zakim]
+EliasT; got it
14:30:19 [EliasT]
Chair: DanC
14:30:23 [EliasT]
Scribe: EliasT
14:30:27 [Zakim]
14:30:31 [Sven_Groppe]
Sven_Groppe has joined #dawg
14:30:33 [libby]
zakim, mute me
14:30:33 [Zakim]
Libby_Miller should now be muted
14:30:36 [Zakim]
14:30:40 [Zakim]
14:30:44 [jeen]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:30:44 [Zakim]
+jeen; got it
14:30:47 [LeeF]
Zakim, IBMCambrdige is LeeF
14:30:47 [Zakim]
sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named 'IBMCambrdige'
14:30:58 [LeeF]
Zakim, IBMCambridge is LeeF
14:30:58 [Zakim]
+LeeF; got it
14:31:01 [LeeF]
So picky.
14:31:11 [DanC]
agenda + Convene RDF Data Access WG meeting of 2006-04-18T14:30Z
14:31:18 [DanC]
agenda + Future meetings
14:31:19 [AndyS]
EricP - extracted examples - any updates? I hope to make the corrections I noted in email
14:31:26 [DanC]
agenda + JSON results format
14:31:34 [DanC]
agenda + punctuationSyntax: bnodes in predicate
14:31:36 [AndyS]
many of the examples aren't checked though
14:31:40 [DanC]
agenda + valueTesting
14:31:47 [DanC]
agenda + test suite maintenance
14:31:52 [AndyS]
if there is an update soon I coudl do all fixes at once
14:31:54 [DanC]
agenda + MIME type registrations
14:32:00 [DanC]
agenda + UC&R end-game
14:32:07 [DanC]
Zakim, take up item 1
14:32:07 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Convene RDF Data Access WG meeting of 2006-04-18T14:30Z" taken up [from DanC]
14:32:09 [EliasT]
Meeting: RDF Data Access Working Group weekly telecon
14:32:16 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:32:16 [Zakim]
On the phone I see EliasT, DanC, AndyS, Libby_Miller (muted), jeen, LeeF
14:32:26 [Souri]
Souri has joined #dawg
14:32:42 [DanC]
DanC has changed the topic to: DAWG 18 apr
14:32:59 [Zakim]
14:33:13 [AndyS]
Regrets: Kendall Clark
14:33:18 [Sven_Groppe]
JacekK is me
14:33:30 [EliasT]
Zakim, JacekK is Sven_Groppe
14:33:30 [Zakim]
+Sven_Groppe; got it
14:33:54 [LeeF]
agenda is ok
14:33:58 [Zakim]
14:34:01 [AndyS]
Jeen -- sound check?
14:34:16 [EliasT]
Regrets: KendallC
14:34:43 [ericP]
zakim, please dial ericP-617
14:34:43 [Zakim]
ok, ericP; the call is being made
14:34:45 [Zakim]
14:34:52 [ericP]
zakim, thank you
14:34:52 [Zakim]
you are very welcome, ericP
14:35:00 [DanC]
-> minutes 11 apr
14:35:00 [LeeF]
14:35:06 [LeeF]
has it always been that polite?
14:35:35 [DanC]
RESOLVED to approve minutes 11 Apr
14:35:54 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
14:35:54 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Future meetings" taken up [from DanC]
14:36:49 [DanC]
I'm in the mood to meet next 30 May
14:39:33 [EliasT]
jeen: Do we need a full meeting to work on the test suite?
14:39:43 [EliasT]
DanC: Well, to approve tests you need a WG decision.
14:40:51 [EliasT]
ericP: Looking for items that need WG decisions in agenda
14:41:39 [EliasT]
DanC: valueTesting seems to be needing more WG work.
14:42:23 [AndyS]
AFS notes that fn =>
14:42:34 [EliasT]
DanC: if we don't decide when to meet next, we need a 7-day notice before we can meet.
14:43:34 [DanC]
PORPOSED: to meet next 2 May, EricP or KC to chair.
14:43:48 [DanC]
JB: regrets 2 May
14:43:58 [libby]
I can't make it either
14:44:18 [libby]
9 shoudl be ok
14:44:21 [DanC]
PORPOSED: to meet next 9 May, EricP or KC to chair.
14:44:22 [LeeF]
probably OK
14:45:00 [Zakim]
14:45:25 [SteveH]
Zakim, IPcaller is SteveH
14:45:25 [Zakim]
+SteveH; got it
14:45:28 [AndyS]
Even is wrong because it seems to be /# for .../xpath-functions/#not
14:45:33 [SteveH]
zakim, mute me
14:45:33 [Zakim]
SteveH should now be muted
14:45:46 [EliasT]
Zakim, pick a victim
14:45:46 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose LeeF
14:45:55 [LeeF]
i can if i'm there, but i'm a bit at risk
14:46:00 [LeeF]
say, 70% chance of it being OK
14:46:29 [LeeF]
14:46:43 [DanC]
PORPOSED: to meet next 9 May, EricP or KC to chair, Lee or Jeen to scribe
14:47:06 [DanC]
RESOLVED: to meet next 9 May, EricP or KC to chair, Lee or Jeen to scribe.
14:47:10 [EliasT]
PROPOSE: to meet next 9 May, EricP or KC to chair, Lee or Jeen to scribe
14:47:19 [EliasT]
PROPOSED: to meet next 9 May, EricP or KC to chair, Lee or Jeen to scribe
14:47:23 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
14:47:23 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "JSON results format" taken up [from DanC]
14:47:49 [DanC]
ACTION: EricP to publish [CONTINUES]
14:48:49 [DanC]
comments to sparql-dev. Note
14:49:01 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
14:49:01 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "punctuationSyntax: bnodes in predicate" taken up [from DanC]
14:49:02 [EliasT]
ACTION: EricP to change status to reflect that comments should go to sparql-dev
14:50:17 [DanC]
ACTION: DanC find decision record for bnodes in predicate [CONTINUES]
14:50:38 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
14:50:38 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "valueTesting" taken up [from DanC]
14:51:29 [DanC]
-> Geoff's comment
14:52:03 [EliasT]
14:52:28 [DanC]
-> Equality in FILTER [#ValueTesting] Seaborne, Andy (Tuesday, 18 April)
14:53:11 [DanC]
(boolean isn't a subtype of integer, is it?)
14:54:42 [DanC]
AFS: XQ F&O says False < True
14:55:10 [EliasT]
Souri: Does XPath say that?
14:55:25 [AndyS]
14:55:52 [AndyS]
Hmm - no boolean-compare which is odd
14:56:35 [DanC]
AFS: having < apply to booleans helps with sorting
14:57:41 [AndyS]
I'd be happiest with a general what does "=" mean principle
14:57:47 [EliasT]
DanC: would prefer to make WG decision based on tests
14:58:50 [EliasT]
DanC: are replies to Geoff should be backed by tests.
14:59:35 [AndyS]
Geoff's comment is (not 0002)
14:59:57 [ericP]
ACTION: EricP to propose text and tests to add {boolean < > = != boolean} to SPARQL
15:00:07 [DanC]
ah... indeed, 0002 is the wrong one
15:00:07 [AndyS]
As we discussed last week, I have acked him offlist that I fwd'ed it to the WG list
15:00:33 [EliasT]
<EtnaRosso> i dont like librdf
15:00:33 [EliasT]
<dajobe> maybe it doesn't like you :-P
15:01:35 [Sven_Groppe]
must leave because of Kindergarten opening times...
15:01:50 [DanC]
enjoy, Sven
15:01:56 [EliasT]
DanC: can you look for roman numeral test?
15:02:01 [Zakim]
15:02:29 [Sven_Groppe]
Sven_Groppe has left #dawg
15:03:12 [AndyS]
DanC: it should be that no processor says "2 != II^^:roman"
15:03:25 [SteveH]
+! to what danc is saying
15:03:28 [SteveH]
+1 even
15:03:47 [SteveH]
(= sometimes being equivalence and sometimes value compare?)
15:04:45 [ericP]
FILTER ( "XI"^^xsd:romanNumeral = "two"^^xsd:numericText ) in a naive processor falls through to the {RDFTerm = RDFTerm} test and = FALSE
15:04:46 [AndyS]
What about ?p = <foo> ??
15:05:11 [ericP]
when the processor understands both xsd:romanNumeral and xsd:numericText, we get TRUE
15:06:19 [EliasT]
DanC: it would be interesting to see what users think getting type errors when we have unknown terms.
15:06:51 [DanC]
(er... integer and decimal do intersect)
15:07:17 [ericP]
FILTER ( ?p sameAs <foo> )
15:07:39 [EliasT]
ericP: if we have error propagation then tests would only change from error to TRUE when implementation learns about new types. (since all of our xsd types don't intersect)
15:07:42 [ericP]
FILTER ( ?p sameTermAs <foo> )
15:07:58 [ericP]
FILTER ( !(?p sameTermAs <foo>) )
15:08:07 [DanC]
(cwm calls it log:equalTo, I think, which is also goofy.)
15:08:14 [ericP]
maybe FILTER ( !(?p ¥ <foo>) ) ?
15:10:28 [EliasT]
ericP: the common usage is to be it numeric comparison and same term comparison, however the syntax gives us a non-monotonic behavior.
15:10:37 [EliasT]
AndyS: it could be monotonic if we throw an error.
15:11:48 [EliasT]
AndyS: if it doesn't have a clue, throws an error.
15:11:55 [ericP]
FILTER ( "XI"^^xsd:romanNumeral = "two"^^xsd:numericText )
15:12:25 [EliasT]
ericP: how do we differentiate between numeric and term compare?
15:12:30 [ericP]
(?x = "XI"^^xsd:romanNumeral) (?y = "two"^^xsd:numericText)
15:12:32 [EliasT]
DanC: you put it in the BGP
15:12:42 [ericP]
FILTER ( ?x = ?y )
15:12:45 [EliasT]
ericP: sorry for being dense
15:12:54 [AndyS]
s/XI/II/ ??
15:13:15 [DanC]
(?x = "II"^^xsd:romanNumeral) (?y = "two"^^xsd:numericText)
15:13:24 [EliasT]
DanC: it should be an error.
15:13:25 [ericP]
FILTER ( ?x = <foo> )
15:13:40 [DanC]
(should as in: that's what AFS is proposing)
15:13:58 [EliasT]
AndyS: it should return an error.
15:14:03 [DanC]
Zakim, mute my dog
15:14:03 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'mute my dog', DanC
15:14:10 [AndyS]
15:14:19 [EliasT]
Present: DanC's dog
15:15:18 [AndyS]
Can do same-rdf-term by (1) BGP or (2) FILTER with str/datatype/lang (a bit verbose but uncommon?)
15:15:37 [EliasT]
ericP: I believe AndyS proposal to remove RDFTerm equal when the two are typed literals.
15:16:21 [DanC]
AFS isn't able to confirm based on the way that got recorded, but such is life
15:17:20 [AndyS]
EricP's or mine?
15:17:24 [LeeF]
All this has no bearing on error propagation, right?
15:17:26 [EliasT]
AndyS: yours.
15:18:05 [AndyS]
The discussion email is:
15:18:16 [AndyS]
Summary "=" on literals means sameValueAs
15:19:05 [EliasT]
in soviet russia...
15:20:10 [DanC]
Zakim, list actions
15:20:10 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'list actions', DanC
15:20:16 [DanC]
RRSAgent, list actions
15:20:16 [RRSAgent]
I see 4 open action items saved in :
15:20:16 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: EricP to publish [CONTINUES] [1]
15:20:16 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
15:20:16 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: EricP to change status to reflect that comments should go to sparql-dev [2]
15:20:16 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
15:20:16 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: DanC find decision record for bnodes in predicate [CONTINUES] [3]
15:20:16 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
15:20:16 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: EricP to propose text and tests to add {boolean < > = != boolean} to SPARQL [4]
15:20:16 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
15:20:29 [DanC]
ACTION EricP: draft text for open-world =
15:21:04 [DanC]
ACTION Andy: draft of open-world = tests
15:21:43 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:21:43 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "test suite maintenance" taken up [from DanC]
15:22:05 [DanC]
ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple [CONTINUES]
15:23:41 [DanC]
ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple [WITHDRAWN]
15:24:29 [DanC]
ACTION AndyS: contribute a couple tests for computed-properties/virtual-prop/builtin. one usingn lists, and one not using lists
15:24:55 [DanC]
ACTION: EricP and Jeen to fix OPTIONAL coding [DONE]
15:25:36 [DanC]
jeen's work is noted in
15:26:55 [jeen]
15:26:56 [ericP]
15:27:38 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:27:38 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "MIME type registrations" taken up [from DanC]
15:28:24 [DanC]
ACTION: EricP to respond to Dirk on MIME type stuff [CONTINUES]
15:28:35 [DanC]
ACTION EricP: to follow up on mime type requests (2Mar) [CONTINUES]
15:29:12 [EliasT]
May 2
15:29:17 [EliasT]
15:29:25 [DanC]
15:29:39 [Zakim]
15:29:46 [Zakim]
15:29:47 [Zakim]
15:29:48 [SteveH]
15:30:00 [Zakim]
15:30:10 [EliasT]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:30:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate EliasT
15:30:19 [EliasT]
RRSAgent, make logs world-access
15:30:35 [EliasT]
RRSAgent, please stop