14:27:49 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:27:49 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/04/18-dawg-irc
14:29:24 <DanC> Zakim, this is dawg
14:29:24 <Zakim> ok, DanC; that matches SW_DAWG()10:30AM
14:29:30 <DanC> Zakim, call DanC-BOS
14:29:30 <Zakim> ok, DanC; the call is being made
14:29:31 <Zakim> +DanC
14:29:50 <Zakim> +??P1
14:29:52 <AndyS> zakim, ??P1 is me
14:29:52 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:30:03 <EliasT> Zakim, IBMCambridge is me
14:30:03 <Zakim> +EliasT; got it
14:30:19 <EliasT> Chair: DanC
14:30:23 <EliasT> Scribe: EliasT
14:30:27 <Zakim> +Libby_Miller
14:30:31 <Sven_Groppe> Sven_Groppe has joined #dawg
14:30:33 <libby> zakim, mute me
14:30:33 <Zakim> Libby_Miller should now be muted
14:30:36 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:30:40 <Zakim> +[IBMCambridge]
14:30:44 <jeen> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:30:44 <Zakim> +jeen; got it
14:30:47 <LeeF> Zakim, IBMCambrdige is LeeF
14:30:47 <Zakim> sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named 'IBMCambrdige'
14:30:58 <LeeF> Zakim, IBMCambridge is LeeF
14:30:58 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it
14:31:01 <LeeF> So picky.
14:31:11 <DanC> agenda + Convene RDF Data Access WG meeting of 2006-04-18T14:30Z
14:31:18 <DanC> agenda + Future meetings
14:31:19 <AndyS> EricP - extracted examples - any updates?  I hope to make the corrections I noted in email
14:31:26 <DanC> agenda + JSON results format
14:31:34 <DanC> agenda + punctuationSyntax: bnodes in predicate
14:31:36 <AndyS> many of the examples aren't checked though
14:31:40 <DanC> agenda + valueTesting
14:31:47 <DanC> agenda + test suite maintenance
14:31:52 <AndyS> if there is an update soon I coudl do all fixes at once
14:31:54 <DanC> agenda + MIME type registrations
14:32:00 <DanC> agenda + UC&R end-game
14:32:07 <DanC> Zakim, take up item 1
14:32:07 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene RDF Data Access WG meeting of 2006-04-18T14:30Z" taken up [from DanC]
14:32:09 <EliasT> Meeting: RDF Data Access Working Group weekly telecon
14:32:16 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:32:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see EliasT, DanC, AndyS, Libby_Miller (muted), jeen, LeeF
14:32:26 <Souri> Souri has joined #dawg
14:32:42 <DanC> DanC has changed the topic to: DAWG 18 apr http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/weekly-agenda
14:32:59 <Zakim> +JacekK
14:33:13 <AndyS> Regrets: Kendall Clark
14:33:18 <Sven_Groppe> JacekK is me
14:33:30 <EliasT> Zakim, JacekK is Sven_Groppe
14:33:30 <Zakim> +Sven_Groppe; got it
14:33:54 <LeeF> agenda is ok
14:33:58 <Zakim> +Souri
14:34:01 <AndyS> Jeen -- sound check?
14:34:16 <EliasT> Regrets: KendallC
14:34:43 <ericP> zakim, please dial ericP-617
14:34:43 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
14:34:45 <Zakim> +EricP
14:34:52 <ericP> zakim, thank you
14:34:52 <Zakim> you are very welcome, ericP
14:35:00 <DanC> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/04/11-dawg-minutes minutes 11 apr
14:35:00 <LeeF> oo
14:35:06 <LeeF> has it always been that polite?
14:35:35 <DanC> RESOLVED to approve minutes 11 Apr
14:35:54 <DanC> Zakim, next item
14:35:54 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Future meetings" taken up [from DanC]
14:36:49 <DanC> I'm in the mood to meet next 30 May
14:39:33 <EliasT> jeen: Do we need a full meeting to work on the test suite?
14:39:43 <EliasT> DanC: Well, to approve tests you need a WG decision.
14:40:51 <EliasT> ericP: Looking for items that need WG decisions in agenda
14:41:39 <EliasT> DanC: valueTesting seems to be needing more WG work.
14:42:23 <AndyS> AFS notes that fn => http://www.w3.org/2004/07/xpath-functions
14:42:34 <EliasT> DanC: if we don't decide when to meet next, we need a 7-day notice before we can meet.
14:43:34 <DanC> PORPOSED: to meet next 2 May, EricP or KC to chair.
14:43:48 <DanC> JB: regrets 2 May
14:43:58 <libby> I can't make it either
14:44:18 <libby> 9 shoudl be ok
14:44:21 <DanC> PORPOSED: to meet next 9 May, EricP or KC to chair.
14:44:22 <LeeF> probably OK
14:45:00 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:45:25 <SteveH> Zakim, IPcaller is SteveH
14:45:25 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
14:45:28 <AndyS> Even http://www.w3.org/2005/xpath-functions is wrong because it seems to be /# for .../xpath-functions/#not  
14:45:33 <SteveH> zakim, mute me
14:45:33 <Zakim> SteveH should now be muted
14:45:46 <EliasT> Zakim, pick a victim
14:45:46 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose LeeF
14:45:55 <LeeF> i can if i'm there, but i'm a bit at risk
14:46:00 <LeeF> say, 70% chance of it being OK
14:46:29 <LeeF> :-p
14:46:43 <DanC> PORPOSED: to meet next 9 May, EricP or KC to chair, Lee or Jeen to scribe
14:47:06 <DanC> RESOLVED: to meet next 9 May, EricP or KC to chair, Lee or Jeen to scribe.
14:47:10 <EliasT> PROPOSE:  to meet next 9 May, EricP or KC to chair, Lee or Jeen to scribe
14:47:19 <EliasT> PROPOSED:  to meet next 9 May, EricP or KC to chair, Lee or Jeen to scribe
14:47:23 <DanC> Zakim, next item
14:47:23 <Zakim> agendum 3. "JSON results format" taken up [from DanC]
14:47:49 <DanC> ACTION: EricP to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/json-sparql/ [CONTINUES]
14:48:49 <DanC> comments to sparql-dev. Note
14:49:01 <DanC> Zakim, next item
14:49:01 <Zakim> agendum 4. "punctuationSyntax: bnodes in predicate" taken up [from DanC]
14:49:02 <EliasT> ACTION: EricP to change status to reflect that comments should go to sparql-dev
14:50:17 <DanC> ACTION: DanC find decision record for bnodes in predicate [CONTINUES]
14:50:38 <DanC> Zakim, next item
14:50:38 <Zakim> agendum 5. "valueTesting" taken up [from DanC]
14:51:29 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2006Apr/0002.html Geoff's comment
14:52:03 <EliasT> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0047.html
14:52:28 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0047.html Equality in FILTER [#ValueTesting] Seaborne, Andy (Tuesday, 18 April)
14:53:11 <DanC> (boolean isn't a subtype of integer, is it?)
14:54:42 <DanC> AFS: XQ F&O says False < True
14:55:10 <EliasT> Souri: Does XPath say that?
14:55:25 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#func-boolean-less-than
14:55:52 <AndyS> Hmm - no boolean-compare which is odd
14:56:35 <DanC> AFS: having < apply to booleans helps with sorting
14:57:41 <AndyS> I'd be happiest with a general what does "=" mean principle
14:57:47 <EliasT> DanC: would prefer to make WG decision based on tests
14:58:50 <EliasT> DanC: are replies to Geoff should be backed by tests.
14:59:35 <AndyS> Geoff's comment is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2006Apr/0003.html (not 0002)
14:59:57 <ericP> ACTION: EricP to propose text and tests to add {boolean < > = != boolean} to SPARQL
15:00:07 <DanC> ah... indeed, 0002 is the wrong one
15:00:07 <AndyS> As we discussed last week, I have acked him offlist that I fwd'ed it to the WG list
15:00:33 <EliasT> <EtnaRosso> i dont like librdf
15:00:33 <EliasT> <dajobe> maybe it doesn't like you :-P
15:01:35 <Sven_Groppe> must leave because of Kindergarten opening times...
15:01:50 <DanC> enjoy, Sven
15:01:56 <EliasT> DanC: can you look for roman numeral test? 
15:02:01 <Zakim> -Sven_Groppe
15:02:29 <Sven_Groppe> Sven_Groppe has left #dawg
15:03:12 <AndyS> DanC: it should be that no processor says "2 != II^^:roman"
15:03:25 <SteveH> +! to what danc is saying
15:03:28 <SteveH> +1 even
15:03:47 <SteveH> (= sometimes being equivalence and sometimes value compare?)
15:04:45 <ericP> FILTER ( "XI"^^xsd:romanNumeral = "two"^^xsd:numericText ) in a naive processor falls through to the  {RDFTerm = RDFTerm}  test and = FALSE
15:04:46 <AndyS> What about    ?p = <foo>   ??
15:05:11 <ericP> when the processor understands both xsd:romanNumeral and xsd:numericText, we get TRUE
15:06:19 <EliasT> DanC: it would be interesting to see what users think getting type errors when we have unknown terms.
15:06:51 <DanC> (er... integer and decimal do intersect)
15:07:17 <ericP> FILTER ( ?p sameAs <foo> )
15:07:39 <EliasT> ericP: if we have error propagation then tests would only change from error to TRUE when implementation learns about new types. (since all of our xsd types don't intersect)
15:07:42 <ericP> FILTER ( ?p sameTermAs <foo> )
15:07:58 <ericP> FILTER ( !(?p sameTermAs <foo>) )
15:08:07 <DanC> (cwm calls it log:equalTo, I think, which is also goofy.)
15:08:14 <ericP> maybe FILTER ( !(?p ¥ <foo>) ) ?
15:10:28 <EliasT> ericP: the common usage is to be it numeric comparison and same term comparison, however the syntax gives us a non-monotonic behavior.
15:10:37 <EliasT> AndyS: it could be monotonic if we throw an error.
15:11:48 <EliasT> AndyS: if it doesn't have a clue, throws an error.
15:11:55 <ericP> FILTER ( "XI"^^xsd:romanNumeral = "two"^^xsd:numericText )
15:12:25 <EliasT> ericP: how do we differentiate between numeric and term compare?
15:12:30 <ericP> (?x = "XI"^^xsd:romanNumeral) (?y = "two"^^xsd:numericText)
15:12:32 <EliasT> DanC: you put it in the BGP
15:12:42 <ericP> FILTER ( ?x = ?y )
15:12:45 <EliasT> ericP: sorry for being dense
15:12:54 <AndyS> s/XI/II/ ??
15:13:15 <DanC> (?x = "II"^^xsd:romanNumeral) (?y = "two"^^xsd:numericText)
15:13:24 <EliasT> DanC: it should be an error.
15:13:25 <ericP> FILTER ( ?x = <foo> )
15:13:40 <DanC> (should as in: that's what AFS is proposing)
15:13:58 <EliasT> AndyS: it should return an error. 
15:14:03 <DanC> Zakim, mute my dog
15:14:03 <Zakim> I don't understand 'mute my dog', DanC
15:14:10 <AndyS> lol
15:14:19 <EliasT> Present: DanC's dog
15:15:18 <AndyS> Can do same-rdf-term by (1) BGP or (2) FILTER with str/datatype/lang (a bit verbose but uncommon?)
15:15:37 <EliasT> ericP: I believe AndyS proposal to remove RDFTerm equal when the two are typed literals.
15:16:21 <DanC> AFS isn't able to confirm based on the way that got recorded, but such is life
15:17:20 <AndyS> EricP's or mine?
15:17:24 <LeeF> All this has no bearing on error propagation, right?
15:17:26 <EliasT> AndyS: yours.
15:18:05 <AndyS> The discussion email is: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0047.html
15:18:16 <AndyS> Summary "=" on literals means sameValueAs 
15:19:05 <EliasT> in soviet russia...
15:20:10 <DanC> Zakim, list actions
15:20:10 <Zakim> I don't understand 'list actions', DanC
15:20:16 <DanC> RRSAgent, list actions
15:20:16 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/18-dawg-actions.rdf :
15:20:16 <RRSAgent> ACTION: EricP to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/json-sparql/ [CONTINUES] [1]
15:20:16 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/18-dawg-irc#T14-47-49
15:20:16 <RRSAgent> ACTION: EricP to change status to reflect that comments should go to sparql-dev [2]
15:20:16 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/18-dawg-irc#T14-49-02
15:20:16 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DanC find decision record for bnodes in predicate [CONTINUES] [3]
15:20:16 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/18-dawg-irc#T14-50-17
15:20:16 <RRSAgent> ACTION: EricP to propose text and tests to add {boolean < > = != boolean} to SPARQL [4]
15:20:16 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/18-dawg-irc#T14-59-57
15:20:29 <DanC> ACTION EricP: draft text for open-world =
15:21:04 <DanC> ACTION Andy: draft of open-world = tests
15:21:43 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:21:43 <Zakim> agendum 6. "test suite maintenance" taken up [from DanC]
15:22:05 <DanC> ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple [CONTINUES]
15:23:41 <DanC> ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple [WITHDRAWN]
15:24:29 <DanC> ACTION AndyS: contribute a couple tests for computed-properties/virtual-prop/builtin. one usingn lists, and one not using lists
15:24:55 <DanC> ACTION: EricP and Jeen to fix OPTIONAL coding [DONE]
15:25:36 <DanC> jeen's work is noted in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0020.html
15:26:55 <jeen> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/extracted-examples/extract
15:26:56 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/extracted-examples/extract
15:27:38 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:27:38 <Zakim> agendum 7. "MIME type registrations" taken up [from DanC]
15:28:24 <DanC> ACTION: EricP to respond to Dirk on MIME type stuff [CONTINUES]
15:28:35 <DanC> ACTION EricP: to follow up on mime type requests (2Mar) [CONTINUES]
15:29:12 <EliasT> May 2
15:29:17 <EliasT> sorry
15:29:25 <DanC> ADJOURN.
15:29:39 <Zakim> -Souri
15:29:46 <Zakim> -Libby_Miller
15:29:47 <Zakim> -jeen
15:29:48 <SteveH> bye
15:30:00 <Zakim> -SteveH
15:30:10 <EliasT> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:30:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/18-dawg-minutes.html EliasT
15:30:19 <EliasT> RRSAgent, make logs world-access
15:30:35 <EliasT> RRSAgent, please stop