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13:48:19 <fsasaki> meeting: i18n ITS working group
13:48:26 <fsasaki> scribe: Felix
13:48:32 <fsasaki> scribeNick: fsasaki
13:48:37 <fsasaki> chair: Yves
13:48:56 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0017.html
13:49:08 <fsasaki> rrsagent, make log public
13:52:53 <YvesS> YvesS has joined #i18nits
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13:57:27 <YvesS> Hi felix
13:57:32 <fsasaki> hi Yves
13:57:54 <YvesS> Strange: http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/itstagset.html is displayed as a blank page with IE
13:58:41 <YvesS> I can see the source HTML but the display is blank
13:59:08 <YvesS> I run the security update this morning: maybe it has to do with it. It looks OK on Firefox.
13:59:58 <fsasaki> it also does not work with my IE :(
14:00:26 <YvesS> http://www.w3.org/TR/its/ displays fine.
14:00:55 <YvesS> It used to work this weeked. And even Monday I think.
14:01:04 <fsasaki> the diff version as well ...
14:01:27 <fsasaki> I uploaded a new version today as itstagset.html
14:01:28 <AZ> AZ has joined #i18nits
14:01:33 <fsasaki> I will have a look
14:01:33 <Zakim> I18N_TS()10:00AM has now started
14:01:38 <fsasaki> zakim, dial felix-home
14:01:38 <Zakim> ok, fsasaki; the call is being made
14:01:40 <Zakim> +Yves_Savourel
14:02:09 <Zakim> +Sebastian_Rahtz
14:02:11 <Zakim> -Yves_Savourel
14:02:12 <Zakim> +Yves_Savourel
14:02:18 <fsasaki> zakim, dial felix-home
14:02:19 <Zakim> ok, fsasaki; the call is being made
14:02:21 <Zakim> +Felix
14:02:41 <YvesS> Hi Andrzej. Sorry: I've listed you in the regrets: I thought you would be travelling. Good to have you.
14:03:08 <Zakim> +Andrzej_Zydron
14:03:13 <Zakim> +??P18
14:03:24 <chriLi> chriLi has joined #i18nits
14:04:12 <rahtz> rahtz has joined #i18nits
14:04:13 <fsasaki> topic: proposal about versioning
14:04:31 <fsasaki> yves: last consensus: we don't have a consensus 
14:04:36 <fsasaki> .. proposals:
14:04:43 <fsasaki> .. 1) put ITS version on root of the document
14:05:34 <fsasaki> .. 2) put ITS version attribute only on the root if there is no its:rules element, otherwise it would be at its:rules
14:06:09 <fsasaki> .. 3) as 1), and if there is no attribute present, we assume that it is version 1.0
14:06:49 <fsasaki> felix: I have no thought now, let's go through it during the f2f
14:06:54 <fsasaki> yves: o.k.
14:07:01 <fsasaki> topic: product's that ITS should encompass
14:07:18 <YvesS> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=2761
14:07:30 <fsasaki> yves: that is the current state
14:07:40 <fsasaki> .. I commented on what we had proposed by Christian and Felix
14:07:51 <fsasaki> .. Felix entered most of the changes in the draft
14:08:37 <fsasaki> .. so is everybody o.k. with what we have as a conformance text?
14:09:17 <fsasaki> Andrzej: they are quite resonable conformance critera
14:09:50 <GoutamSaha> GoutamSaha has joined #i18nits
14:10:32 <fsasaki> action: yves and felix to integrate the link related stuff into the conformance section
14:10:45 <fsasaki> topic: element within text
14:10:48 <YvesS> http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/itstagset.html#datacat-within-text
14:11:12 <fsasaki> yves: one issue: the subflow issue is left
14:11:23 <fsasaki> .. Andrzej wants also a "subflow" attribute
14:11:41 <fsasaki> .. it would say that we content would be a different part of the text
14:11:59 <fsasaki> .. I think it is difficult to make the difference between subflow and not subflow
14:12:09 <fsasaki> Andrzej: the problem I have:
14:12:22 <fsasaki> .. if we don't list them as with "within text"
14:12:53 <fsasaki> .. we will have problems with segmentation processes
14:13:26 <YvesS> <li>some text:<p>some more text</p></li>
14:13:39 <fsasaki> yves: what would you do with cases like that?
14:13:53 <fsasaki> .. e.g. XHTML allows those type of things
14:14:04 <fsasaki> sebastian: what would you do about embedded graphics?
14:14:16 <fsasaki> Andrzej: it is a subflow
14:14:37 <fsasaki> yves: so these subflows we would have a placeholder, and the text woud be extracted separately?
14:14:41 <fsasaki> Andrzej: yes
14:14:53 <fsasaki> .. treating this separately gives you good granularity
14:15:11 <fsasaki> .. so the emmbedded graphic is not a problem, but the list with a paragraph
14:15:30 <fsasaki> .. it is o.k. in DITA, XHTML, DocBook
14:16:39 <fsasaki> .. they are a kind of "top level elements"
14:17:03 <fsasaki> yves: so if p is in li, would p be a subflow?
14:17:06 <fsasaki> Andrzej: no
14:17:12 <fsasaki> Yves: so what do we do with it?
14:17:26 <fsasaki> Andrzej: the process would segment the sentence and come to the p
14:17:43 <fsasaki> yves: so you would have a text broken in different segments
14:17:55 <fsasaki> Andrzej: yes, since the p is not designed to be a subflow
14:18:52 <fsasaki> .. I think true subflows are index markers, titles in XHTLM etc.
14:19:30 <fsasaki> yves: I see the problem that people will not know how to differentiate the usage of these two categories?
14:19:48 <fsasaki> .. I would say: we don't need subflow as a category, it is just within text
14:21:40 <fsasaki> .. so we say: not listing it as an inline element would make it a subflow?
14:21:46 <fsasaki> sebastian: because it is the default?
14:21:58 <fsasaki> Yves: yes. so we could get rid of the subflow attribute?
14:22:02 <fsasaki> Andrzej: yes
14:23:04 <fsasaki> sebastian: I will think about a better name than withinText until next week
14:23:50 <fsasaki> topic: proposal for ruby
14:23:58 <YvesS> http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/itstagset.html#ruby-sec
14:24:15 <fsasaki> yves: what felix did:
14:24:58 <fsasaki> .. he went through the definition of the ruby module 
14:26:24 <fsasaki> yves: I saw you implemented the same model as the ruby w3c tr?
14:26:39 <fsasaki> felix: yes, including the conformance
14:26:54 <fsasaki> yves: how will we test for ruby?
14:28:28 <fsasaki> felix: I would say for local we don't have to do anything
14:28:44 <fsasaki> .. just rely on existing tests for ruby
14:28:53 <fsasaki> .. as for global rules, we can handle ruby like everything else
14:29:24 <YvesS> http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/itstagset.html#ruby-sec
14:29:32 <fsasaki> topic: rescheduling of topics
14:29:59 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0014.html
14:30:27 <fsasaki> yves: describes topics for next week (f2f week)
14:31:23 <fsasaki> .. processing expectations for ruby / dir, http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=2915
14:31:33 <fsasaki> .. metadata for rules
14:31:40 <fsasaki> .. indicator for constraints
14:32:01 <fsasaki> .. everybody fine with that?
14:32:13 <fsasaki> Andrzej: I will be in Shanghai next week
14:32:18 <fsasaki> .. I have to leave now
14:32:25 <Zakim> -Andrzej_Zydron
14:32:47 <fsasaki> topic: further action items
14:33:08 <fsasaki> draft URI: http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-its-20060414/
14:33:56 <fsasaki> action: Everybody to think about which W3C working groups shoud comment on the tagset last call draft (ONGOING)
14:34:45 <fsasaki> yves: please send your ideas to Felix
14:35:00 <fsasaki> felix: Liam Quin said the draft looks o.k.
14:35:14 <fsasaki> .. I'd propose to have CSS, XSLT
14:35:31 <fsasaki> action: Sebastian to give feedback on the 'overriding' change proposal, Diane to look at it again (ONGOING)
14:35:49 <fsasaki> yves: Sebastian, what do you think about our current terminology in the spec?
14:36:07 <fsasaki> sebastian: I think we are overriding
14:36:15 <fsasaki> yves: so we all agree
14:36:59 <fsasaki> sebastian: a term like "precedence" is a social time
14:37:31 <fsasaki> action: editor's to replace 'overwriting' with 'overriding' in the spec
14:37:50 <fsasaki> action: Yves to summarize "loc prop" discussion (DONE)
14:38:06 <fsasaki> action: Yves to summarize the terminology discussion on "localization properties" (DONE)
14:38:17 <fsasaki> action: Yves to write a paragraph on versioning for the tagset draft (PENDING)
14:38:23 <fsasaki> yves: that's for the f2f
14:38:33 <fsasaki> action: Editor's of the techniques document: give examples how to use its:locInfoRef (DONE)
14:38:40 <YvesS> http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0601TechLocInfoDev
14:39:00 <fsasaki> yves: please comment and make change proposals in the wiki
14:40:18 <fsasaki> action: Richard to describe an additional level of conformance for Ruby (DROPPED)
14:40:35 <fsasaki> action: Spec editors to integrate discussion result about bugs 2881,2,3 (DONE)
14:41:51 <fsasaki> topic: f2f topics
14:43:28 <fsasaki> felix: should we talk about the schema design?
14:43:42 <fsasaki> sebastian: we are too deep in the topic
14:44:04 <fsasaki> .. let's be prepared to talk about the schema design, but it is not absolutly mandatory
14:45:18 <fsasaki> sebastian: what do I have to prepare except internet and a phone, a projector?
14:46:01 <fsasaki> yves: me, christian and felix are in the same hotel
14:47:42 <fsasaki> yves: any comments on the f2f?
14:48:34 <fsasaki> felix: I will try to organize the work better
14:49:31 <fsasaki> christian: a further topic: organization of work in the group
14:50:30 <YvesS> Hi Goutam :)
14:50:59 <GoutamSaha> Good Night Felix, Yves and Everyone
14:52:09 <GoutamSaha> Hi Yves, Felix
14:54:55 <GoutamSaha> Bye
14:55:24 <fsasaki> topic: next meeting
14:55:37 <fsasaki> yves: please think about locations, timing
14:55:59 <Zakim> -Sebastian_Rahtz
14:56:05 <Zakim> -Yves_Savourel
14:56:17 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-its-20060414/
14:58:13 <Zakim> -Christian
14:58:14 <Zakim> -Felix
14:58:16 <Zakim> I18N_TS()10:00AM has ended
14:58:17 <Zakim> Attendees were Yves_Savourel, Sebastian_Rahtz, Felix, Andrzej_Zydron, Christian
14:58:35 <fsasaki> present: Andrzej, Christian, Felix, Goutam, Sebastian, Yves
14:58:44 <fsasaki> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:58:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/12-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
15:17:09 <fsasaki> rrsagent, bye
15:17:09 <RRSAgent> I see 10 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/12-i18nits-actions.rdf :
15:17:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: yves and felix to integrate the link related stuff into the conformance section [1]
15:17:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/12-i18nits-irc#T14-10-32
15:17:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Everybody to think about which W3C working groups shoud comment on the tagset last call draft (ONGOING) [2]
15:17:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/12-i18nits-irc#T14-33-56
15:17:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Sebastian to give feedback on the 'overriding' change proposal, Diane to look at it again (ONGOING) [3]
15:17:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/12-i18nits-irc#T14-35-31
15:17:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: editor's to replace 'overwriting' with 'overriding' in the spec [4]
15:17:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/12-i18nits-irc#T14-37-31
15:17:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Yves to summarize "loc prop" discussion (DONE) [5]
15:17:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/12-i18nits-irc#T14-37-50
15:17:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Yves to summarize the terminology discussion on "localization properties" (DONE) [6]
15:17:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/12-i18nits-irc#T14-38-06
15:17:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Yves to write a paragraph on versioning for the tagset draft (PENDING) [7]
15:17:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/12-i18nits-irc#T14-38-17
15:17:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Editor's of the techniques document: give examples how to use its:locInfoRef (DONE) [8]
15:17:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/12-i18nits-irc#T14-38-33
15:17:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Richard to describe an additional level of conformance for Ruby (DROPPED) [9]
15:17:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/12-i18nits-irc#T14-40-18
15:17:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Spec editors to integrate discussion result about bugs 2881,2,3 (DONE) [10]
15:17:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/12-i18nits-irc#T14-40-35
15:17:12 <fsasaki> zakim, bye
15:17:12 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18nits