IRC log of htmltf on 2006-04-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:54:08 [RRSAgent]

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12:54:08 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/04/10-htmltf-irc

12:54:16 [RalphS]

Meeting: RDF in XHTML TF

12:54:29 [RalphS]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Apr/0002.html

12:54:50 [RalphS]

Previous: 2006-04-03 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Apr/0003.html

12:56:17 [Steven]

That's last week's agenda RalphS

12:56:59 [Steven]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Apr/0009

12:57:03 [RalphS]

thanks, Steven

12:57:29 [RalphS]

clicked too far down the index page :(

12:59:25 [Steven_]

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12:59:38 [Steven_]

weak network here

13:01:28 [Zakim]

SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM has now started

13:01:35 [Zakim]

+Ralph

13:04:12 [MarkB_]

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13:05:03 [Zakim]

+??P9

13:05:06 [Steven_]

zakim, dial steven-mobile

13:05:06 [Zakim]

ok, Steven_; the call is being made

13:05:07 [Zakim]

+Steven

13:05:11 [MarkB_]

zakim, i am ?

13:05:11 [Zakim]

+MarkB_; got it

13:05:50 [Steven_]

can you hear me?

13:05:57 [Zakim]

+Ben_Adida

13:06:01 [benadida]

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13:06:13 [Steven_]

I hear nought

13:06:19 [Zakim]

-Steven

13:06:24 [Steven_]

zakim, dial steven-mobile

13:06:24 [Zakim]

ok, Steven_; the call is being made

13:06:26 [Zakim]

+Steven

13:07:20 [RalphS]

Chair: Ben

13:07:33 [Steven_]

zakim, country code 86?

13:07:33 [Zakim]

I don't understand your question, Steven_.

13:07:38 [RalphS]

zakim, where is +86?

13:07:38 [Zakim]

country code 86 is China

13:08:48 [RalphS]

Topic: Action Item Review

13:09:18 [RalphS]

[DONE] ACTION: Ben review Jeremy's actions [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/20-htmltf-minutes.html#action14]

13:09:41 [RalphS]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Apr/0007.html following up on issues assigned to Jeremy [Ben]

13:09:50 [RalphS]

[PENDING] ACTION: Ben start separate mail threads on remaining discussion topics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action04]

13:09:56 [RalphS]

Ben: expect to complete this this week

13:10:06 [RalphS]

[DONE] ACTION: Ben to develop a plan for a marketing/news web site about RDF/A and send it to the list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-minutes.html#action16]

13:10:24 [RalphS]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Apr/0008.html The RDF/A Marketing Site [Ben]

13:10:49 [RalphS]

ACTION: Mark, Steven, and Ralph respond to Ben's off-list draft of response to Bjoern [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-minutes.html#action05]

13:11:04 [Steven_]

Done by Steven

13:11:30 [RalphS]

Mark: I started writing a reply to Ben, will complete soon. Bjoern has received several messages from us so the tone should not imply this is the first reply.

13:11:43 [RalphS]

... hope to finish my comments today

13:11:50 [RalphS]

ACTION: Ben update his bookmarklet for XHTML mode [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-minutes.html#action12]

13:11:52 [RalphS]

-- continues

13:12:00 [RalphS]

ACTION: Ben to draft full response to Bjoern's 2004 email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-minutes.html#action03]

13:12:02 [RalphS]

-- continues

13:15:09 [RalphS]

Ralph: I'm happy with Ben's latest draft of response to Bjoern

13:15:30 [RalphS]

[WITHDRAWN] ACTION: Jeremy followup on HEAD about= edge case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action03]

13:15:38 [RalphS]

[WITHDRAWN] ACTION: Jeremy followup with Mark on the question of multiple triples from nested meta and add to issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action01]

13:15:46 [RalphS]

[WITHDRAWN] ACTION: Jeremy look into the XHTML namespace issue and write thoughts into email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action02]... next

13:15:52 [RalphS]

[WITHDRAWN] ACTION: Jeremy propose wording on reification [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action02]

13:16:02 [benadida]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Apr/0007

13:16:57 [RalphS]

ACTION: Ben integrate Jeremy's action into list of issues

13:17:12 [RalphS]

s/action/actions

13:17:29 [RalphS]

[DONE] ACTION: Mark work on a first draft of an RDF/A XHTML 1.1 module [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]

13:17:52 [RalphS]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Apr/0023.html [ACTION] Produce XHTML M12N 1.1 Schemas for RDFA [Mark]

13:18:04 [RalphS]

ACTION: once Steven sends editors' draft of XHTML2, all TF members take a look and comment on showstopper issues only [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]

13:18:06 [RalphS]

-- continues

13:18:34 [MarkB_]

zakim, mute me

13:18:34 [Zakim]

MarkB_ should now be muted

13:19:04 [MarkB_]

zakim, unmute me

13:19:04 [Zakim]

MarkB_ should no longer be muted

13:19:31 [RalphS]

Topic: Report on W3C Presentation

13:19:55 [RalphS]

Ben: I presented a version of my Semantic Technologies talk to the W3C Staff last week

13:20:04 [RalphS]

... had more demos and technical detail

13:20:26 [RalphS]

... there was a lot of interest in seeing how this would work as an XHTML 1.1 module

13:20:53 [RalphS]

... interest in deployment issues for existing browsers

13:26:46 [RalphS]

Steven: redefining 'rel' became an issue

13:28:00 [RalphS]

Ralph: I think redefining 'rel' is a backwards compatibility question

13:28:53 [RalphS]

Mark: 'rel' values without prefix are in the XHTML namespace, and there won't be anything at the URI.

13:29:08 [RalphS]

... HTML has been that way (nothing at the URI) for years, so what's the problem?

13:29:22 [RalphS]

... layered approach is good and should be emphasized

13:29:42 [RalphS]

Ben: Mozilla liked the changes to 'rel'

13:32:03 [RalphS]

Ralph: key message in Ben's presentation is the benefit that comes from putting RDF statements in the same document with the hypertext

13:33:37 [RalphS]

Mark: someone has posted a suggestion to use RDF/A to markup text values in an RDF/XML OWL document

13:33:55 [RalphS]

... he noted that he needed to invent a namespace for the RDF/A attributes in order to do this

13:34:08 [RalphS]

... wanted to identify medical terms in the text

13:34:39 [RalphS]

... ~November 2005 in SWBPD list

13:35:23 [RalphS]

Ben: mnemonic "DRY" - Don't Repeat Yourself -- was suggested for the goal to not repeat data between RDF and display

13:36:06 [RalphS]

Topic: XHTML 1.1 Module

13:36:36 [RalphS]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Apr/0023.html Mark's draft of module

13:37:13 [RalphS]

Mark: I found I had to create more new modules rather than just override existing ones

13:37:28 [RalphS]

... I tried to resolve all the issues; e.g. CURIEs in href

13:37:35 [RalphS]

... not sure what we should try to release first

13:37:48 [RalphS]

... perhaps just META and LINK everywhere and QNames in 'rel'

13:38:10 [benadida]

q+ to talk about next WG

13:38:15 [RalphS]

... clicking on a link that contains '[...]' is trickier

13:38:57 [Zakim]

benadida, you wanted to talk about next WG

13:39:23 [RalphS]

Ben: there is interest in having an XHTML 1.1 module proposal to be input to the proposed SemWeb Deployment WG

13:40:04 [RalphS]

... in that sense, having a complete proposal is good; can now start looking at how much of it could be deployed

13:40:26 [RalphS]

Mark: if there's a good case for implementing the whole thing, I'd much prefer that

13:40:49 [RalphS]

Ben: there will be concern for folk who choose not to upgrade their browser for a while

13:41:42 [Zakim]

RalphS, you wanted to ask about changes to XHTML 1.1

13:43:37 [RalphS]

Ralph: is the XHTML 1.1 [modularization] specification being reopened for change? I'm a neophyte in XHTML 1.1 stuff.

13:43:55 [RalphS]

Steven: don't get confused by the "1.1" numbering of both XHTML and XHTML Modularization

13:44:19 [RalphS]

Mark: I'm only saying that the changes needed to META and LINK are so fundamental ...

13:44:38 [RalphS]

... what Modularization expects you to do is create a layer that redefines things in the modularization

13:44:50 [RalphS]

... e.g. to add 'about' you go to 'common.extra' and simply add your attribute

13:45:02 [RalphS]

... the architecture is designed to make it easy to add elements and attributes

13:45:16 [RalphS]

... you're not supposed to need layers unless you want to fundamentally alter the architecture

13:45:28 [RalphS]

... and I decided that such a fundamental change was appropriate

13:46:08 [RalphS]

Steven: yes, Modularization does provide an extension mechanism but you cannot, e.g. add 'href' to 'common.extras' because you'll get duplicate href definitions

13:46:28 [RalphS]

Mark: I only had to modify existing definitions for A, LINK, and imagemap

13:46:55 [RalphS]

... I found I had to make more changes to the schemas than I would have preferred to make

13:48:15 [RalphS]

Ralph: so everything you needed to do to add RDF/A as an XHTML 1.1 module can be done without a WG in the HTML Activity making changes to existing XHTML specs?

13:48:34 [RalphS]

Mark: right, the existing specs are enough to support this work

13:48:47 [RalphS]

Steven: we've learned that attributes should not be hardwired to specific elements

13:49:18 [RalphS]

... modularization does not allow a local attribute to be generalized; this is the one feature we didn't consider

13:49:23 [RalphS]

... so this makes href more difficult

13:49:42 [RalphS]

Mark: we need to discuss how this moves forward

13:49:52 [RalphS]

... e.g. 'name' is currently required and needs to be made optional

13:50:17 [RalphS]

... so relationship between documents that are fully HTML-conformant and new documents that are HTML+RDF/A conformant

13:50:47 [RalphS]

... a new document might not be conformant to an older schema

13:52:55 [RalphS]

q+ to ask how best to keep records of the early modularization work on W3C site

13:54:30 [Zakim]

RalphS, you wanted to ask how best to keep records of the early modularization work on W3C site

13:56:03 [Steven_]

zakim, mute me

13:56:03 [Zakim]

sorry, Steven_, I do not see a party named 'Steven_'

13:56:14 [Steven_]

zakim, I am Steven

13:56:14 [Zakim]

ok, Steven_, I now associate you with Steven

13:56:18 [Steven_]

zakim, mute me

13:56:18 [Zakim]

Steven should now be muted

13:57:49 [RalphS]

Ralph: Mark, please email snapshots of your pages to TF mailing list or to www-archive@w3.org

13:59:18 [RalphS]

... could also use W3C Wiki

14:00:04 [Steven_]

url of pages?

14:00:05 [RalphS]

Mark: there is a 'print' button that will print all the pages as a single document

14:00:24 [benadida]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Apr/0007

14:00:32 [RalphS]

... note, too, that comments are enabled on the skimstone site

14:00:54 [RalphS]

Topic: Proposals on Some Outstanding Issues

14:01:03 [RalphS]

Ben: please read 0007 and respond

14:01:16 [RalphS]

next meeting: Tuesday 18 April 1300 UTC

14:01:30 [RalphS]

[adjourned]

14:01:31 [Zakim]

-Ben_Adida

14:01:33 [Zakim]

-MarkB_

14:01:33 [benadida]

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14:01:34 [Zakim]

-Ralph

14:01:37 [Zakim]

-Steven

14:01:40 [Zakim]

SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM has ended

14:01:42 [Zakim]

Attendees were Ralph, Steven, MarkB_, Ben_Adida

14:02:01 [RalphS]

rrsagent, please make record public

14:04:10 [RalphS]

rrsagent, please draft minutes

14:04:10 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/10-htmltf-minutes.html RalphS

14:23:31 [Steven_]

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