17:09:42 RRSAgent has joined #tagmem 17:09:42 logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-irc 17:09:44 +TimBL 17:09:59 scribe: raman 17:10:08 chair: Vincent Quint 17:10:14 meeting: TAG telcon 17:10:24 scribenick: raman 17:10:25 timbl has joined #tagmem 17:10:40 raman, it's traditional to have the machine draft minutes, then edit them and check them in under /2001/tag/YYYY/MM, and then mail a pointer to www-tag. But practice varies considerably. 17:11:35 so you dont want me to scribe on IRC? 17:11:54 sorry, yes... the machine drafts then based on what you write in IRC 17:11:59 drafts them 17:12:06 I'd prefer to just type in here --- dont have cycles to turn it into a new work activity of its own:-) 17:13:06 last week's minutes approved subject to HT's final edits. 17:14:38 (henry, so the minutes will stay at http://www.w3.org/2006/03/28-tagmem-minutes.html ? I want their address in today's minutes) 17:14:51 DanC, yes. 17:15:26 q+ 17:15:58 So do we have tentative dates in Oct? 17:16:08 Yes, nevermind. 17:19:54 I prefer a 2 day meeting. I'm not sure I can muster 3 days of steam. 17:20:24 ack danc 17:20:53 also issue: Venice is a long way to travel for 2 days 17:22:11 ACTION DanC: explore Venice meeting venue 17:23:34 q+ to note a possible conflict with the June meeting 17:24:05 -> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2006/06/12-logistics.html June meeting logistics 17:26:27 ack danc 17:26:27 DanC, you wanted to note a possible conflict with the June meeting 17:26:33 ACTION: Norm to send hotel details in a week 17:27:36 Vincent: AC Meeting At WWW 2006 Edinburgh 17:27:45 Tag Summary to be reviewed by email 17:28:36 Possible TAG session at AC Meeting 17:36:37 Conclusion: no active TAG interest in adding to AC Meeting agenda 17:39:14 http://www.w3.org/2006/03/28-tagmem-minutes.html is now cleaned up 17:39:33 -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-namespaceState-20060329/ our recent WD 17:44:50 HT: Introduces URN discussion 17:44:58 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/URNsAndRegistries-50.html#metadata 17:45:01 following my nose from the agenda, I get 1.7 2006/04/04 16:32:06 ; can anybody confirm? 17:45:11 yes, DanC 17:47:39 HT: Document covers a number of different proposals/patterns of use for new URI schemes etc. --- identify things we think of as information resources 17:48:07 HT: reorged to make section2 a simple, short summary of why the TAG doesn't think that for many purposes such things are different from http: in interesting ways. 17:48:16 (implicit? darn.) 17:48:19 If not, then you shouldn't be forking the Web 17:48:37 HT: would like feedback on the document style --- and also wants input on sections 2.7 and 2.8 17:48:57 ?NRI 17:49:03 "New Resource Identifiers" I expect 17:49:08 DanC: NRI is jarring 17:49:46 "recent proposals ([RFC 3688], [oasis URN], [XRI])" 17:49:47 HT: we're not just responding to XRIs --- we want to cover anyone who wants to mint a new namespace for electronic resources e.g. New Zealand Govt 17:50:10 DanC: suggests adding info: 17:50:17 TimBL we can discuss Info: 17:50:25 s/new namespace/new URN subspace/ 17:50:35 TimBL: convinced XRIs are a bad idea, not sure if info: is any worse than mailto: 17:50:45 DanC: info: looks exactly like XRI 17:51:15 Some confusion as to how info: thingies are resolved 17:53:59 tvr: recommend not using an acronym like NRI 17:55:26 nRI 17:55:28 _RI 17:58:05 TimBL: one of the problems with HTTP is that one cannot get a URI space for ever. 17:58:14 TimBL: perhaps pull that out as an issue? 17:58:38 Perpetual Resource Identifiers? 17:59:56 HT: believes that the XRI spec as it stands no longer claims to solve/address the perpetual resource problem, since they also use DNS for resolution 18:01:35 q+ 18:02:12 q+ to say yes, timbl, let's hope folks considering DAV: and dix: URIs schemes _will_ look here 18:02:48 [[ 18:02:48 The http: URI scheme implements a two-part approach to identifying resources. It combines a universal distributed naming scheme for owners of resources with a hierarchical syntax for distinguishing resources which share the same owner. Widely available mechanisms (DNS and web servers, respectively) exist to support the use of http: URIs to not only identify but actually retrieve representations of information resources. 18:02:49 ]] 18:02:51 HT: as we've worked on the finding, we have moved towards DanC's position -- 18:02:56 DanC pastes it in below 18:02:59 right under 3 The value of http: URIs 18:03:08 ack danc 18:03:08 DanC, you wanted to say yes, timbl, let's hope folks considering DAV: and dix: URIs schemes _will_ look here 18:03:29 q+ to suggest a title "The dangers of URNs and Registries" 18:04:01 or "the poverty of" 18:04:03 ack timbl 18:04:03 timbl, you wanted to suggest a title "The dangers of URNs and Registries" 18:04:23 q- 18:04:50 (formatting around 2.7 Rich authority is goofy) 18:05:06 HT: 2.6 URI for an object vs URI to the metadata for that object 18:05:18 HT: what do people think? 18:05:30 q+ 18:05:45 (this is another place where I'd find a full survey more useful.) 18:06:40 ack timbl 18:07:00 HT: clarifies that here metadata is not http header like metadata in response to question: if you have a uri to metadata and uri to object, then how do you keep them in sync? 18:07:13 q+ to note that the state-of-the art in metadata is the 18:07:55 q+ to note that the state-of-the art in metadata is the element and Link: HTTP header; see widespread practice with RSS feeds associated with web pages, but also navigational links, and in-development work on quality ratings etc. 18:08:09 The kind of metadata people are looking for in the nRI case is things such as dc:creator etc. 18:08:29 Link: 18:09:22 TimBL: given foo.html then foo.html,meta might give you a lot of extensible metadata 18:09:31 ack danc 18:09:31 DanC, you wanted to note that the state-of-the art in metadata is the and to note that the state-of-the art in metadata is the element and Link: HTTP header; see 18:09:34 ... widespread practice with RSS feeds associated with web pages, but also navigational links, and in-development work on quality ratings etc. 18:10:23 HST notes that this only works for HTML 18:10:33 the Link: header field works 18:11:20 HST asks for what value of 'works' 18:11:42 http://www.mozilla.org/projects/netlib/Link_Prefetching_FAQ.html 18:12:24 Cool by design (tm) 18:13:34 I know somthine bout what trustred resolution _might_ mean, but I was hoping to take advantage of henry's survey work 18:13:34 DO: reviewing Section 4 18:14:15 (huh? I thought the point of URIs is that they're context free; i.e. that The Web is _the_ context.) 18:15:15 q+ to say that XRIs _are_ meant to be dereferencable 18:16:16 (btw, timbl, on permanent domains, note that example.org is permanently allocated by the IETF, i.e. the DNS technical standardization body. I think it's probably efficient to just do that again whenever necessary.) 18:18:13 ack ht 18:18:13 ht, you wanted to say that XRIs _are_ meant to be dereferencable 18:20:13 q+ to note that there are scheme-independent resolution mechanisms (DDS)... 18:22:16 DO: XRIs use XRI namespace for XRI descriptors 18:22:33 ack danc 18:22:33 DanC, you wanted to note that there are scheme-independent resolution mechanisms (DDS)... 18:22:45 q+ to note that there are scheme-independent resolution mechanisms (DDS)... 18:23:01 DO, HST to consider two examples, one using URNs for namespaces and one using XRIs for documents 18:23:09 ack danc 18:23:09 DanC, you wanted to note that there are scheme-independent resolution mechanisms (DDS)... 18:23:09 DO: Suggest splitting into two examples A) namespaces a la oasis B) documents that are meant to be location independent 18:23:35 DanC idea of a uri scheme that cannot be looked up sounds absurd 18:24:47 TimBL: shall we set up a W3C resolver that does its best to resolve any types of resource? 18:25:05 (that was suggested in jest, I'm pretty sure) 18:25:58 q+ to ask what's the path from here to XRI proponents 18:26:17 http://undereferencable.net/ can only be used for dereferencing undereferencable URIs 18:27:32 ack danc 18:27:32 DanC, you wanted to ask what's the path from here to XRI proponents 18:28:57 I can take another swag at 2 example.s 18:30:21 -DOrchard 18:30:28 -Norm 18:30:30 -Ht 18:30:33 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 18:30:33 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html DanC 18:30:36 -TimBL 18:31:16 RRSAgent, make logs world-access 18:31:30 -Vincent 18:31:37 -raman 18:31:39 raman, can you start with http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html , edit it a bit, and send it to www-tag? 18:32:46 i/last week's/Topic: Convene, take roll, review records and agenda/ 18:32:50 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 18:32:50 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html DanC 18:33:09 Zakim, list attendees 18:33:09 As of this point the attendees have been Ht, DOrchard, Norm, +1.347.661.aaaa, DanC, Vincent, raman, TimBL 18:33:11 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 18:33:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html DanC 18:33:15 -DanC 18:33:16 TAG_Weekly()12:30PM has ended 18:33:17 Attendees were Ht, DOrchard, Norm, +1.347.661.aaaa, DanC, Vincent, raman, TimBL 18:34:11 i/AC Meeting At WWW 2006 Edinburgh/Topic: AC Meeting At WWW 2006 Edinburgh/ 18:34:14 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 18:34:14 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html DanC 18:34:51 i/URN discussion/Issue URNsAndRegistries-50/ 18:34:59 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 18:35:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html DanC 18:35:22 Regrets: Noah, Ed 18:35:24 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 18:35:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html DanC 18:36:02 i/HT: Introduces URN discussion/Issue URNsAndRegistries-50/ 18:36:05 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 18:36:05 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html DanC 18:36:37 i/HT: Introduces URN discussion/Topic: Issue URNsAndRegistries-50/ 18:36:41 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 18:36:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html DanC 18:37:13 there. that should do. 19:18:10 Norm has joined #tagmem 19:56:06 Norm has joined #tagmem 20:03:22 timbl has left #tagmem