IRC log of tagmem on 2006-04-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:09:42 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #tagmem
17:09:42 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-irc
17:09:44 [Zakim]
+TimBL
17:09:59 [ht]
scribe: raman
17:10:08 [ht]
chair: Vincent Quint
17:10:14 [ht]
meeting: TAG telcon
17:10:24 [ht]
scribenick: raman
17:10:25 [timbl]
timbl has joined #tagmem
17:10:40 [DanC]
raman, it's traditional to have the machine draft minutes, then edit them and check them in under /2001/tag/YYYY/MM, and then mail a pointer to www-tag. But practice varies considerably.
17:11:35 [raman]
so you dont want me to scribe on IRC?
17:11:54 [DanC]
sorry, yes... the machine drafts then based on what you write in IRC
17:11:59 [DanC]
drafts them
17:12:06 [raman]
I'd prefer to just type in here --- dont have cycles to turn it into a new work activity of its own:-)
17:13:06 [raman]
last week's minutes approved subject to HT's final edits.
17:14:38 [DanC]
(henry, so the minutes will stay at http://www.w3.org/2006/03/28-tagmem-minutes.html ? I want their address in today's minutes)
17:14:51 [ht]
DanC, yes.
17:15:26 [DanC]
q+
17:15:58 [Norm]
So do we have tentative dates in Oct?
17:16:08 [Norm]
Yes, nevermind.
17:19:54 [DanC]
I prefer a 2 day meeting. I'm not sure I can muster 3 days of steam.
17:20:24 [Vincent]
ack danc
17:20:53 [raman]
also issue: Venice is a long way to travel for 2 days
17:22:11 [DanC]
ACTION DanC: explore Venice meeting venue
17:23:34 [DanC]
q+ to note a possible conflict with the June meeting
17:24:05 [DanC]
-> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2006/06/12-logistics.html June meeting logistics
17:26:27 [Vincent]
ack danc
17:26:27 [Zakim]
DanC, you wanted to note a possible conflict with the June meeting
17:26:33 [raman]
ACTION: Norm to send hotel details in a week
17:27:36 [raman]
Vincent: AC Meeting At WWW 2006 Edinburgh
17:27:45 [raman]
Tag Summary to be reviewed by email
17:28:36 [raman]
Possible TAG session at AC Meeting
17:36:37 [raman]
Conclusion: no active TAG interest in adding to AC Meeting agenda
17:39:14 [ht]
http://www.w3.org/2006/03/28-tagmem-minutes.html is now cleaned up
17:39:33 [DanC]
-> http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-namespaceState-20060329/ our recent WD
17:44:50 [raman]
HT: Introduces URN discussion
17:44:58 [ht]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/URNsAndRegistries-50.html#metadata
17:45:01 [DanC]
following my nose from the agenda, I get 1.7 2006/04/04 16:32:06 ; can anybody confirm?
17:45:11 [ht]
yes, DanC
17:47:39 [raman]
HT: Document covers a number of different proposals/patterns of use for new URI schemes etc. --- identify things we think of as information resources
17:48:07 [raman]
HT: reorged to make section2 a simple, short summary of why the TAG doesn't think that for many purposes such things are different from http: in interesting ways.
17:48:16 [DanC]
(implicit? darn.)
17:48:19 [raman]
If not, then you shouldn't be forking the Web
17:48:37 [raman]
HT: would like feedback on the document style --- and also wants input on sections 2.7 and 2.8
17:48:57 [timbl]
?NRI
17:49:03 [Norm]
"New Resource Identifiers" I expect
17:49:08 [raman]
DanC: NRI is jarring
17:49:46 [DanC]
"recent proposals ([RFC 3688], [oasis URN], [XRI])"
17:49:47 [raman]
HT: we're not just responding to XRIs --- we want to cover anyone who wants to mint a new namespace for electronic resources e.g. New Zealand Govt
17:50:10 [raman]
DanC: suggests adding info:
17:50:17 [raman]
TimBL we can discuss Info:
17:50:25 [ht]
s/new namespace/new URN subspace/
17:50:35 [raman]
TimBL: convinced XRIs are a bad idea, not sure if info: is any worse than mailto:
17:50:45 [raman]
DanC: info: looks exactly like XRI
17:51:15 [raman]
Some confusion as to how info: thingies are resolved
17:53:59 [raman]
tvr: recommend not using an acronym like NRI
17:55:26 [timbl]
nRI
17:55:28 [timbl]
_RI
17:58:05 [raman]
TimBL: one of the problems with HTTP is that one cannot get a URI space for ever.
17:58:14 [raman]
TimBL: perhaps pull that out as an issue?
17:58:38 [raman]
Perpetual Resource Identifiers?
17:59:56 [raman]
HT: believes that the XRI spec as it stands no longer claims to solve/address the perpetual resource problem, since they also use DNS for resolution
18:01:35 [DanC]
q+
18:02:12 [DanC]
q+ to say yes, timbl, let's hope folks considering DAV: and dix: URIs schemes _will_ look here
18:02:48 [DanC]
[[
18:02:48 [DanC]
The http: URI scheme implements a two-part approach to identifying resources. It combines a universal distributed naming scheme for owners of resources with a hierarchical syntax for distinguishing resources which share the same owner. Widely available mechanisms (DNS and web servers, respectively) exist to support the use of http: URIs to not only identify but actually retrieve representations of information resources.
18:02:49 [DanC]
]]
18:02:51 [raman]
HT: as we've worked on the finding, we have moved towards DanC's position --
18:02:56 [raman]
DanC pastes it in below
18:02:59 [DanC]
right under 3 The value of http: URIs
18:03:08 [Vincent]
ack danc
18:03:08 [Zakim]
DanC, you wanted to say yes, timbl, let's hope folks considering DAV: and dix: URIs schemes _will_ look here
18:03:29 [timbl]
q+ to suggest a title "The dangers of URNs and Registries"
18:04:01 [timbl]
or "the poverty of"
18:04:03 [Vincent]
ack timbl
18:04:03 [Zakim]
timbl, you wanted to suggest a title "The dangers of URNs and Registries"
18:04:23 [timbl]
q-
18:04:50 [DanC]
(formatting around 2.7 Rich authority is goofy)
18:05:06 [raman]
HT: 2.6 URI for an object vs URI to the metadata for that object
18:05:18 [raman]
HT: what do people think?
18:05:30 [timbl]
q+
18:05:45 [DanC]
(this is another place where I'd find a full survey more useful.)
18:06:40 [Vincent]
ack timbl
18:07:00 [raman]
HT: clarifies that here metadata is not http header like metadata in response to question: if you have a uri to metadata and uri to object, then how do you keep them in sync?
18:07:13 [DanC]
q+ to note that the state-of-the art in metadata is the <link>
18:07:55 [DanC]
q+ to note that the state-of-the art in metadata is the <link> element and Link: HTTP header; see widespread practice with RSS feeds associated with web pages, but also navigational links, and in-development work on quality ratings etc.
18:08:09 [ht]
The kind of metadata people are looking for in the nRI case is things such as dc:creator etc.
18:08:29 [timbl]
Link:
18:09:22 [raman]
TimBL: given foo.html then foo.html,meta might give you a lot of extensible metadata
18:09:31 [Vincent]
ack danc
18:09:31 [Zakim]
DanC, you wanted to note that the state-of-the art in metadata is the <link> and to note that the state-of-the art in metadata is the <link> element and Link: HTTP header; see
18:09:34 [Zakim]
... widespread practice with RSS feeds associated with web pages, but also navigational links, and in-development work on quality ratings etc.
18:10:23 [ht]
HST notes that this only works for HTML
18:10:33 [DanC]
the Link: header field works
18:11:20 [ht]
HST asks for what value of 'works'
18:11:42 [raman]
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/netlib/Link_Prefetching_FAQ.html
18:12:24 [timbl]
Cool by design (tm)
18:13:34 [DanC]
I know somthine bout what trustred resolution _might_ mean, but I was hoping to take advantage of henry's survey work
18:13:34 [raman]
DO: reviewing Section 4
18:14:15 [DanC]
(huh? I thought the point of URIs is that they're context free; i.e. that The Web is _the_ context.)
18:15:15 [ht]
q+ to say that XRIs _are_ meant to be dereferencable
18:16:16 [DanC]
(btw, timbl, on permanent domains, note that example.org is permanently allocated by the IETF, i.e. the DNS technical standardization body. I think it's probably efficient to just do that again whenever necessary.)
18:18:13 [Vincent]
ack ht
18:18:13 [Zakim]
ht, you wanted to say that XRIs _are_ meant to be dereferencable
18:20:13 [DanC]
q+ to note that there are scheme-independent resolution mechanisms (DDS)...
18:22:16 [raman]
DO: XRIs use XRI namespace for XRI descriptors
18:22:33 [Vincent]
ack danc
18:22:33 [Zakim]
DanC, you wanted to note that there are scheme-independent resolution mechanisms (DDS)...
18:22:45 [DanC]
q+ to note that there are scheme-independent resolution mechanisms (DDS)...
18:23:01 [ht]
DO, HST to consider two examples, one using URNs for namespaces and one using XRIs for documents
18:23:09 [Vincent]
ack danc
18:23:09 [Zakim]
DanC, you wanted to note that there are scheme-independent resolution mechanisms (DDS)...
18:23:09 [raman]
DO: Suggest splitting into two examples A) namespaces a la oasis B) documents that are meant to be location independent
18:23:35 [raman]
DanC idea of a uri scheme that cannot be looked up sounds absurd
18:24:47 [raman]
TimBL: shall we set up a W3C resolver that does its best to resolve any types of resource?
18:25:05 [DanC]
(that was suggested in jest, I'm pretty sure)
18:25:58 [DanC]
q+ to ask what's the path from here to XRI proponents
18:26:17 [timbl]
http://undereferencable.net/ can only be used for dereferencing undereferencable URIs
18:27:32 [Vincent]
ack danc
18:27:32 [Zakim]
DanC, you wanted to ask what's the path from here to XRI proponents
18:28:57 [dorchard]
I can take another swag at 2 example.s
18:30:21 [Zakim]
-DOrchard
18:30:28 [Zakim]
-Norm
18:30:30 [Zakim]
-Ht
18:30:33 [DanC]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:30:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html DanC
18:30:36 [Zakim]
-TimBL
18:31:16 [DanC]
RRSAgent, make logs world-access
18:31:30 [Zakim]
-Vincent
18:31:37 [Zakim]
-raman
18:31:39 [DanC]
raman, can you start with http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html , edit it a bit, and send it to www-tag?
18:32:46 [DanC]
i/last week's/Topic: Convene, take roll, review records and agenda/
18:32:50 [DanC]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:32:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html DanC
18:33:09 [DanC]
Zakim, list attendees
18:33:09 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Ht, DOrchard, Norm, +1.347.661.aaaa, DanC, Vincent, raman, TimBL
18:33:11 [DanC]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:33:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html DanC
18:33:15 [Zakim]
-DanC
18:33:16 [Zakim]
TAG_Weekly()12:30PM has ended
18:33:17 [Zakim]
Attendees were Ht, DOrchard, Norm, +1.347.661.aaaa, DanC, Vincent, raman, TimBL
18:34:11 [DanC]
i/AC Meeting At WWW 2006 Edinburgh/Topic: AC Meeting At WWW 2006 Edinburgh/
18:34:14 [DanC]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:34:14 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html DanC
18:34:51 [DanC]
i/URN discussion/Issue URNsAndRegistries-50/
18:34:59 [DanC]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:35:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html DanC
18:35:22 [DanC]
Regrets: Noah, Ed
18:35:24 [DanC]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:35:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html DanC
18:36:02 [DanC]
i/HT: Introduces URN discussion/Issue URNsAndRegistries-50/
18:36:05 [DanC]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:36:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html DanC
18:36:37 [DanC]
i/HT: Introduces URN discussion/Topic: Issue URNsAndRegistries-50/
18:36:41 [DanC]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:36:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html DanC
18:37:13 [DanC]
there. that should do.
19:18:10 [Norm]
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Norm has joined #tagmem
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timbl has left #tagmem