IRC log of ws-addr on 2006-04-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:53:38 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/04/03-ws-addr-irc
19:53:52 [bob]
zakin, this will be ws_addrwg
19:53:58 [hugo]
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19:54:09 [bob]
Meeting: Web Services Addressing WG Teleconference
19:54:15 [bob]
Chair: Bob Freund
19:55:11 [bob]
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/mid/7D5D3FDA429F4D469ADF210408D6245A039182@jeeves.freunds.com
19:55:12 [hugo]
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19:55:24 [bob]
zakim, this will be ws_addrwg
19:55:24 [Zakim]
ok, bob; I see WS_AddrWG()4:00PM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
19:56:14 [prasad]
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WS_AddrWG()4:00PM has now started
19:56:29 [David_Illsley]
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+Bob_Freund
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+David_Illsley
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+Gilbert_Pilz
19:59:24 [Gil]
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+Nilo
20:00:07 [Zakim]
+Paul_Knight
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+Mark_Little
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+Andreas_Bjarlestam
20:00:46 [Gil]
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20:00:50 [Zakim]
+Vikas_Deolaliker
20:00:55 [Zakim]
+Hugo
20:00:57 [Zakim]
+Tom_Rutt
20:01:01 [Katy]
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20:01:53 [vikas]
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20:02:03 [Zakim]
+Dave_Hull
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20:02:20 [andreas]
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+Mark_Peel/Katy_Warr
20:03:03 [TonyR]
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+Prasad_Yendluri
20:03:52 [Zakim]
+Jonathan_Marsh
20:03:59 [TRutt]
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20:04:09 [Katy]
zakim, mute Katy_Warr
20:04:09 [Zakim]
sorry, Katy, I do not see a party named 'Katy_Warr'
20:04:19 [Zakim]
+??P16
20:04:34 [TonyR]
zkaim, ??p16 is me
20:04:39 [Katy]
zakim, mute Katy
20:04:39 [Zakim]
sorry, Katy, I do not see a party named 'Katy'
20:04:45 [TonyR]
zakim, ??p16 is me
20:04:45 [Zakim]
+TonyR; got it
20:05:16 [TRutt]
me tony how many hours different are you now vs last week
20:05:31 [Katy]
zakim, who's here
20:05:31 [Zakim]
Katy, you need to end that query with '?'
20:05:41 [Katy]
zakim, who's here?
20:05:41 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Bob_Freund, David_Illsley, Gilbert_Pilz, Nilo, Paul_Knight, Mark_Little, Andreas_Bjarlestam (muted), Vikas_Deolaliker, Hugo, Tom_Rutt, Dave_Hull,
20:05:44 [Zakim]
... Mark_Peel/Katy_Warr, Prasad_Yendluri, Jonathan_Marsh, TonyR
20:05:45 [Zakim]
On IRC I see TRutt, TonyR, andreas, dhull, vikas, Katy, Gil, David_Illsley, prasad, hugo, RRSAgent, Zakim, bob, PaulKnight, Jonathan
20:06:07 [Katy]
zakim, Mark_Peel/Katy_Warr is Katy_Warr
20:06:07 [Zakim]
+Katy_Warr; got it
20:06:17 [Katy]
zakim, mute Katy_Warr
20:06:17 [Zakim]
Katy_Warr should now be muted
20:06:23 [Katy]
phew!
20:07:17 [bob]
Scribe: Paul Knite
20:07:29 [bob]
Scribe: Paul Knight
20:07:40 [Jonathan]
RRSAgent, where am I?
20:07:40 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2006/04/03-ws-addr-irc#T20-07-40
20:07:48 [hugo]
scribeNick: PaulKnight
20:08:31 [PaulKnight]
minutes accepted
20:08:48 [PaulKnight]
that is, minutes of previous meeting
20:09:18 [PaulKnight]
hugo: headup on change of contact person . I am leaving the WG and W3C by the end of May
20:09:48 [PaulKnight]
Bob: Hugo has been a tremendous help to me and the WG. We will misshim and wish him the best.
20:09:51 [Zakim]
+Dave_Orchard
20:09:53 [dhull]
+1
20:10:15 [PaulKnight]
Hugo: I will go to yahoo to do some web-servicey "stuff"
20:10:37 [PaulKnight]
Bob: reviewing action items:
20:11:07 [PaulKnight]
1- editors to remove edotorial notes, text from hugo accepted...
20:11:22 [Zakim]
+GlenD
20:12:35 [PaulKnight]
Bob: we will come back
20:12:49 [PaulKnight]
proposed and new issues
20:13:16 [PaulKnight]
* lc123 - Example Improvement suggestion Owner: ??? Proposal 1: <http://www.w3.org/mid/44299C10.9000202@tibco.com>
20:14:52 [PaulKnight]
ideal would be to align examples with WSDL document and use hotel reservations
20:16:09 [PaulKnight]
dhull: describing the example suggestions
20:16:24 [GlenD]
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20:16:27 [PaulKnight]
bob: any objections to regularizing the examples?
20:16:37 [Zakim]
-GlenD
20:16:44 [PaulKnight]
no objections
20:16:56 [PaulKnight]
ACTION: editors to modify text accordingly
20:17:26 [Zakim]
+GlenD
20:17:34 [PaulKnight]
issue: * lc124 - Conformance section Owner: ???
20:17:53 [PaulKnight]
bob: Hugo, is this due to the new document policy?
20:18:21 [Jonathan]
q+
20:19:05 [bob]
ack jon
20:19:07 [PaulKnight]
hugo: W3C had a QA discussion, not really a new rule, but looking from a QA perspective
20:20:02 [hugo]
s/discussion/Activity/
20:20:36 [Zakim]
+Marc_Hadley
20:20:58 [PaulKnight]
bob: should we add a conformance section, or change how we use the word "conform" ?
20:21:01 [marc]
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20:22:24 [dhull]
q+ to ask if there are any non-trivial interactions among the various optional features?
20:22:31 [Zakim]
+Anish
20:22:33 [dhull]
q-
20:22:56 [anish]
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20:25:28 [PaulKnight]
Jonathan: When we talk about supporting usingAddressing, the use of anonymous or Action is implied....
20:26:14 [dorchard]
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20:26:24 [TRutt]
q+
20:26:30 [PaulKnight]
jonathan: for optional features, it is not clear exactly how you specify conformance
20:27:01 [PaulKnight]
bob: there are some general statements in the doc style guide which contain some canned conformance statements
20:27:17 [bob]
ack tr
20:27:28 [Zakim]
-Mark_Little
20:27:35 [PaulKnight]
trutt: lots of specs have "conformance points" which we can consider
20:28:01 [PaulKnight]
trutt: we need to clarify what are the conformance points - are they grouped or separarte?
20:28:14 [PaulKnight]
s/separarte/separate/
20:28:35 [Jonathan]
http://www.w3.org/TR/qaframe-spec/#include-conformance-clause-principle
20:30:01 [PaulKnight]
bob: any volunteers for writing a conformance section?
20:30:29 [TRutt]
q+
20:30:31 [PaulKnight]
bob: do we need a conformance section? We should explore that.
20:30:55 [PaulKnight]
trutt: are the optional points sufficiently clear now, which ones are needed?
20:31:30 [PaulKnight]
jona: it is clear to me, but maybe it is not clear in the spec which individual items are required
20:32:23 [PaulKnight]
bob: can we get an issue owner?
20:32:37 [anish]
i see only two occurances of 'conforms to' and they all point to ws-addr (core/soap), i think
20:33:06 [PaulKnight]
Jonathan: I can do it, suggest some clarifying text. If others want to work in parallel, that is fine.
20:33:38 [PaulKnight]
ACTION: Jonathan to work on clarifying conformance points
20:34:00 [PaulKnight]
topic: * lc125 - Define the class of products of your specification Owner: ???
20:35:13 [bob]
ref: http://www.w3.org/TR/qaframe-spec/#implement-principle
20:35:33 [dhull]
q+
20:35:58 [bob]
ack tr
20:36:02 [bob]
ack dh
20:36:04 [GlenD]
I think that what we did in WSDL was actually a mistake, and that a lot of people are going to be confused when they try to understand how to correctly use extensibility. :(
20:36:08 [PaulKnight]
Jonathan: metadata is an issue - diferent use cases - hard to deal with
20:37:18 [PaulKnight]
dhull: WS-A is used for messages... it cuts out databases, other interesting things... just say a sentence in that direction, may address the issue...?
20:37:26 [dorchard]
I tend to agree with Glen. I especially don't like that the conformance seems related to fluffing up an abstract component model...
20:37:58 [anish]
is this comment against all the specs or just the wsdl binding?
20:38:16 [PaulKnight]
s/dhull/glenD/
20:39:48 [dhull]
q+
20:40:15 [dhull]
paul, that was me ("WS-A is used for messages")
20:40:40 [Zakim]
-GlenD
20:41:13 [PaulKnight]
dhull: is there any product that this would not apply to?
20:41:27 [bob]
ack dh
20:42:05 [PaulKnight]
dhull: if there is no meaningful kind of process it does not apply to, we can say it applies to all..
20:42:24 [bob]
definition:
20:42:27 [bob]
class of products
20:42:27 [bob]
The generic name for the group of products or services that would implement, for the same purpose, the specification, (i.e., target of the specification). A specification may identify several classes of products.
20:43:22 [Zakim]
-Nilo
20:43:36 [PaulKnight]
we can say it is applicable everywhere, not have a canonical list of products it applies to.
20:44:09 [PaulKnight]
bob: we can say: we heard your comment, but it does not apply because of the following, or we can address it
20:44:35 [PaulKnight]
bob: the class of product we can describe here might be as simple as "web services"
20:44:52 [PaulKnight]
jonathan: or a class of systems which consume WSDL
20:45:43 [PaulKnight]
bob: wouldn't the class of products be WSDL consumers?
20:46:20 [PaulKnight]
hugo: we can say WSDL or EPR consumers. it does not need more than that.
20:46:56 [PaulKnight]
hugo: the conformance item was useful, but this item does not bring a lot of value.
20:47:22 [PaulKnight]
bob: any objections to "WSDL or EPR consumers"?
20:47:59 [PaulKnight]
jona: I agree,
20:48:09 [PaulKnight]
bob: no objections,
20:48:57 [PaulKnight]
ACTION: bob to respond to author and craft response, class of consumers is EPR and WSDL consumers
20:49:22 [PaulKnight]
topic: * lc126 - WS-Addressing typo 3.1 Using Owner: ???
20:49:33 [PaulKnight]
bob: not sure what is the point
20:49:54 [PaulKnight]
jona: usingAddressing
20:50:17 [PaulKnight]
ACTION: Bob to respond to author.
20:50:35 [PaulKnight]
hugo: possibly use a code font to mark element names
20:51:04 [PaulKnight]
jona: or add a namespace prefix lowercase wsa-w
20:52:02 [hugo]
in XMLSpec, <el> can be used to surround element names and <att> can be used to surround attribute names
20:52:37 [PaulKnight]
ACTION: editors to investigate ways to typographically clarify how to depict our intent
20:52:55 [PaulKnight]
topic: * lc127 - Application choice of synchronicity Owner: ???
20:53:57 [PaulKnight]
bob: ways for the application to determine how to use Anon? Is this an implementation issue?
20:54:30 [bob]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-addressing-comments/2006Mar/0007.html
20:55:33 [PaulKnight]
bob: the comment is in end of the third paragraph of the link posted
20:57:19 [PaulKnight]
bob: the answer may be: "yes, you are right, but..?"
20:57:59 [PaulKnight]
jonathan: don't quite see the problem with a single endpoint, using non-anonymous, sending it on...
20:58:24 [PaulKnight]
bob: asynchronously with respect to the lifetime of the backchannel?
20:58:49 [anish]
i didn't understand what he meant by creating a new binding type. And how would that address his problem
20:58:50 [PaulKnight]
jona: at the application level?
20:59:47 [PaulKnight]
bob: using a non-anonymous replyTo, you allow a future response to come on that channel
21:00:35 [yinleng]
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21:01:28 [PaulKnight]
bob: can someone craft a response? it is an overall WS-Adderessing question in some ways. Can someone try to take ownership to tease out what Todd means?
21:02:05 [PaulKnight]
Anish: like jonathan, I'm not sure what the issue is...
21:02:43 [PaulKnight]
jonathan: I will respond to him and try to get more detail, and explain our thinking.
21:02:52 [TRutt]
q+
21:03:06 [PaulKnight]
ACTION: jonathan to respond to author (Todd)
21:03:30 [Zakim]
-Dave_Orchard
21:03:46 [PaulKnight]
Bob: We will need two hours for the meeting next week, things are piling up
21:03:58 [PaulKnight]
Bob: I have opened registration for the F2F
21:04:20 [PaulKnight]
Bob: planning a Wednesday PM activity, possibly at Museum of Fine Arts
21:04:37 [PaulKnight]
bob: it would need to be fairly early, by 6:30
21:04:54 [Zakim]
-Katy_Warr
21:04:55 [Zakim]
-Anish
21:04:56 [Zakim]
-Jonathan_Marsh
21:04:57 [Zakim]
-Tom_Rutt
21:04:58 [PaulKnight]
bob: adjhourning now, prepare for 2 hours next week!
21:04:59 [Zakim]
-Hugo
21:05:00 [Zakim]
-Marc_Hadley
21:05:01 [Zakim]
-Andreas_Bjarlestam
21:05:02 [Zakim]
-Vikas_Deolaliker
21:05:03 [Zakim]
-Bob_Freund
21:05:05 [Zakim]
-David_Illsley
21:05:06 [Zakim]
-Prasad_Yendluri
21:05:07 [Zakim]
-TonyR
21:05:13 [Zakim]
-Gilbert_Pilz
21:05:16 [Zakim]
-Paul_Knight
21:06:16 [Gil]
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21:06:48 [hugo]
RRSAgent, make log public
21:06:54 [hugo]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
21:06:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/03-ws-addr-minutes.html hugo
21:06:54 [yinleng]
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21:08:45 [GlenD]
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21:09:36 [GlenD]
I assume call is over?
21:11:59 [GlenD]
I'll take that as yes :)
21:32:33 [TRutt]
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22:05:00 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, Dave_Hull, in WS_AddrWG()4:00PM
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WS_AddrWG()4:00PM has ended
22:05:04 [Zakim]
Attendees were Bob_Freund, David_Illsley, Gilbert_Pilz, Nilo, Paul_Knight, Mark_Little, Andreas_Bjarlestam, Vikas_Deolaliker, Hugo, Tom_Rutt, Dave_Hull, Prasad_Yendluri,
22:05:06 [Zakim]
... Jonathan_Marsh, TonyR, Katy_Warr, Dave_Orchard, GlenD, Marc_Hadley, Anish
22:14:58 [pauld]
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