19:53:38 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ws-addr
19:53:38 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/04/03-ws-addr-irc
19:53:52 <bob> zakin, this will be ws_addrwg
19:53:58 <hugo> hugo has joined #ws-addr
19:54:09 <bob> Meeting: Web Services Addressing WG Teleconference
19:54:15 <bob> Chair: Bob Freund
19:55:11 <bob> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/mid/7D5D3FDA429F4D469ADF210408D6245A039182@jeeves.freunds.com
19:55:12 <hugo> hugo has joined #ws-addr
19:55:24 <bob> zakim, this will be ws_addrwg
19:55:24 <Zakim> ok, bob; I see WS_AddrWG()4:00PM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
19:56:14 <prasad> prasad has joined #ws-Addr
19:56:23 <Zakim> WS_AddrWG()4:00PM has now started
19:56:29 <David_Illsley> David_Illsley has joined #ws-addr
19:56:30 <Zakim> +Bob_Freund
19:57:01 <Zakim> +David_Illsley
19:58:23 <Zakim> +Gilbert_Pilz
19:59:24 <Gil> Gil has joined #ws-addr
19:59:25 <Zakim> +Nilo
20:00:07 <Zakim> +Paul_Knight
20:00:11 <Zakim> +Mark_Little
20:00:39 <Zakim> +Andreas_Bjarlestam
20:00:46 <Gil> Gil has joined #ws-addr
20:00:50 <Zakim> +Vikas_Deolaliker
20:00:55 <Zakim> +Hugo
20:00:57 <Zakim> +Tom_Rutt
20:01:01 <Katy> Katy has joined #ws-addr
20:01:53 <vikas> vikas has joined #ws-addr
20:02:03 <Zakim> +Dave_Hull
20:02:17 <dhull> dhull has joined #ws-addr
20:02:20 <andreas> andreas has joined #ws-addr
20:02:59 <Zakim> +Mark_Peel/Katy_Warr
20:03:03 <TonyR> TonyR has joined #ws-addr
20:03:05 <Zakim> +Prasad_Yendluri
20:03:52 <Zakim> +Jonathan_Marsh
20:03:59 <TRutt> TRutt has joined #ws-addr
20:04:09 <Katy> zakim, mute Katy_Warr
20:04:09 <Zakim> sorry, Katy, I do not see a party named 'Katy_Warr'
20:04:19 <Zakim> +??P16
20:04:34 <TonyR> zkaim, ??p16 is me
20:04:39 <Katy> zakim, mute Katy
20:04:39 <Zakim> sorry, Katy, I do not see a party named 'Katy'
20:04:45 <TonyR> zakim, ??p16 is me
20:04:45 <Zakim> +TonyR; got it
20:05:16 <TRutt> me tony how many hours different are you now vs last week
20:05:31 <Katy> zakim, who's here
20:05:31 <Zakim> Katy, you need to end that query with '?'
20:05:41 <Katy> zakim, who's here?
20:05:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see Bob_Freund, David_Illsley, Gilbert_Pilz, Nilo, Paul_Knight, Mark_Little, Andreas_Bjarlestam (muted), Vikas_Deolaliker, Hugo, Tom_Rutt, Dave_Hull,
20:05:44 <Zakim> ... Mark_Peel/Katy_Warr, Prasad_Yendluri, Jonathan_Marsh, TonyR
20:05:45 <Zakim> On IRC I see TRutt, TonyR, andreas, dhull, vikas, Katy, Gil, David_Illsley, prasad, hugo, RRSAgent, Zakim, bob, PaulKnight, Jonathan
20:06:07 <Katy> zakim, Mark_Peel/Katy_Warr is Katy_Warr
20:06:07 <Zakim> +Katy_Warr; got it
20:06:17 <Katy> zakim, mute Katy_Warr
20:06:17 <Zakim> Katy_Warr should now be muted
20:06:23 <Katy> phew!
20:07:17 <bob> Scribe: Paul Knite
20:07:29 <bob> Scribe: Paul Knight
20:07:40 <Jonathan> RRSAgent, where am I?
20:07:40 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2006/04/03-ws-addr-irc#T20-07-40
20:07:48 <hugo> scribeNick: PaulKnight 
20:08:31 <PaulKnight> minutes accepted
20:08:48 <PaulKnight> that is, minutes of previous meeting
20:09:18 <PaulKnight> hugo: headup on change of contact person . I am leaving the WG and W3C by the end of May
20:09:48 <PaulKnight> Bob:  Hugo has been a tremendous help to me and the WG.  We will misshim and wish him the best.
20:09:51 <Zakim> +Dave_Orchard
20:09:53 <dhull> +1
20:10:15 <PaulKnight> Hugo: I will go to yahoo to do some web-servicey "stuff"
20:10:37 <PaulKnight> Bob: reviewing action items:
20:11:07 <PaulKnight> 1- editors to remove edotorial notes, text from hugo accepted...
20:11:22 <Zakim> +GlenD
20:12:35 <PaulKnight> Bob: we will come back 
20:12:49 <PaulKnight> proposed and new issues
20:13:16 <PaulKnight> * lc123 - Example Improvement suggestion Owner: ???  Proposal 1: <http://www.w3.org/mid/44299C10.9000202@tibco.com>
20:14:52 <PaulKnight> ideal would be to align examples with WSDL document and use hotel reservations
20:16:09 <PaulKnight> dhull: describing the example suggestions
20:16:24 <GlenD> GlenD has joined #ws-addr
20:16:27 <PaulKnight> bob: any objections to regularizing the examples?
20:16:37 <Zakim> -GlenD
20:16:44 <PaulKnight> no objections
20:16:56 <PaulKnight> ACTION: editors to modify text accordingly
20:17:26 <Zakim> +GlenD
20:17:34 <PaulKnight> issue: * lc124 - Conformance section Owner: ??? 
20:17:53 <PaulKnight> bob:  Hugo, is this due to the new document policy?
20:18:21 <Jonathan> q+
20:19:05 <bob> ack jon
20:19:07 <PaulKnight> hugo: W3C had a QA discussion, not really a new rule, but looking from a QA perspective
20:20:02 <hugo> s/discussion/Activity/
20:20:36 <Zakim> +Marc_Hadley
20:20:58 <PaulKnight> bob: should we add a conformance section, or change how we use the word "conform" ?
20:21:01 <marc> marc has joined #ws-addr
20:22:24 <dhull> q+ to ask if there are any non-trivial interactions among the various optional features?
20:22:31 <Zakim> +Anish
20:22:33 <dhull> q-
20:22:56 <anish> anish has joined #ws-addr
20:25:28 <PaulKnight> Jonathan: When we talk about supporting usingAddressing, the use of anonymous or Action is implied.... 
20:26:14 <dorchard> dorchard has joined #ws-addr
20:26:24 <TRutt> q+
20:26:30 <PaulKnight> jonathan: for optional features, it is not clear exactly how you specify conformance
20:27:01 <PaulKnight> bob: there are some general statements in the doc style guide which contain some canned conformance statements
20:27:17 <bob> ack tr
20:27:28 <Zakim> -Mark_Little
20:27:35 <PaulKnight> trutt: lots of specs have "conformance points" which we can consider
20:28:01 <PaulKnight> trutt: we need to clarify what are the conformance points - are they grouped or separarte?
20:28:14 <PaulKnight> s/separarte/separate/
20:28:35 <Jonathan> http://www.w3.org/TR/qaframe-spec/#include-conformance-clause-principle
20:30:01 <PaulKnight> bob: any volunteers for writing a conformance section?
20:30:29 <TRutt> q+
20:30:31 <PaulKnight> bob: do we need a conformance section?  We should explore that.
20:30:55 <PaulKnight> trutt: are the optional points sufficiently clear now, which ones are needed?
20:31:30 <PaulKnight> jona: it is clear to me, but maybe it is not clear in the spec which individual items are required
20:32:23 <PaulKnight> bob: can we get an issue owner?
20:32:37 <anish> i see only two occurances of 'conforms to' and they all point to ws-addr (core/soap), i think
20:33:06 <PaulKnight> Jonathan: I can do it, suggest some clarifying text.  If others want to work in parallel, that is fine.
20:33:38 <PaulKnight> ACTION: Jonathan to work on clarifying conformance points
20:34:00 <PaulKnight> topic: * lc125 - Define the class of products of your specification Owner: ???
20:35:13 <bob> ref: http://www.w3.org/TR/qaframe-spec/#implement-principle
20:35:33 <dhull> q+
20:35:58 <bob> ack tr
20:36:02 <bob> ack dh
20:36:04 <GlenD> I think that what we did in WSDL was actually a mistake, and that a lot of people are going to be confused when they try to understand how to correctly use extensibility. :(
20:36:08 <PaulKnight> Jonathan: metadata is an issue - diferent use cases - hard to deal with
20:37:18 <PaulKnight> dhull: WS-A is used for messages... it cuts out databases, other interesting things... just say a sentence in that direction, may address the issue...?
20:37:26 <dorchard> I tend to agree with Glen.  I especially don't like that the conformance seems related to fluffing up an abstract component model...
20:37:58 <anish> is this comment against all the specs or just the wsdl binding?
20:38:16 <PaulKnight> s/dhull/glenD/
20:39:48 <dhull> q+
20:40:15 <dhull> paul, that was me ("WS-A is used for messages")
20:40:40 <Zakim> -GlenD
20:41:13 <PaulKnight> dhull: is there any product that this would not apply to?
20:41:27 <bob> ack dh
20:42:05 <PaulKnight> dhull: if there is no meaningful kind of process it does not apply to, we can say it applies to all..
20:42:24 <bob> definition:
20:42:27 <bob> class of products  
20:42:27 <bob> The generic name for the group of products or services that would implement, for the same purpose, the specification, (i.e., target of the specification). A specification may identify several classes of products. 
20:43:22 <Zakim> -Nilo
20:43:36 <PaulKnight> we can say it is applicable everywhere, not have a canonical list of products it applies to.
20:44:09 <PaulKnight> bob: we can say: we heard your comment, but it does not apply because of the following, or we can address it
20:44:35 <PaulKnight> bob: the class of product we can describe here might be as simple as "web services"
20:44:52 <PaulKnight> jonathan: or a class of systems which consume WSDL
20:45:43 <PaulKnight> bob: wouldn't the class of products be WSDL consumers?
20:46:20 <PaulKnight> hugo: we can say WSDL or EPR consumers.  it does not need more than that.
20:46:56 <PaulKnight> hugo: the conformance item was useful, but this item does not bring a lot of value.
20:47:22 <PaulKnight> bob: any objections to "WSDL or EPR consumers"?
20:47:59 <PaulKnight> jona: I agree, 
20:48:09 <PaulKnight> bob: no objections, 
20:48:57 <PaulKnight> ACTION: bob  to respond to author and craft response, class of consumers is EPR and WSDL consumers
20:49:22 <PaulKnight> topic: * lc126 - WS-Addressing typo 3.1 Using Owner: ???
20:49:33 <PaulKnight> bob: not sure what is the point
20:49:54 <PaulKnight> jona: usingAddressing
20:50:17 <PaulKnight> ACTION: Bob to respond to author.
20:50:35 <PaulKnight> hugo: possibly use a code font to mark element names
20:51:04 <PaulKnight> jona: or add a namespace prefix  lowercase wsa-w
20:52:02 <hugo> in XMLSpec, <el> can be used to surround element names and <att> can be used to surround attribute names
20:52:37 <PaulKnight> ACTION: editors to investigate ways to typographically clarify  how to depict our intent
20:52:55 <PaulKnight> topic: * lc127 - Application choice of synchronicity Owner: ???
20:53:57 <PaulKnight> bob: ways for the application to determine how to use Anon?  Is this an implementation issue?
20:54:30 <bob> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-addressing-comments/2006Mar/0007.html
20:55:33 <PaulKnight> bob: the comment is in end of the third paragraph of the link posted
20:57:19 <PaulKnight> bob: the answer may be: "yes, you are right, but..?"  
20:57:59 <PaulKnight> jonathan: don't quite see the problem with a single endpoint, using non-anonymous, sending it on...
20:58:24 <PaulKnight> bob: asynchronously with respect to the lifetime of the backchannel?
20:58:49 <anish> i didn't understand what he meant by creating a new binding type. And how would that address his problem
20:58:50 <PaulKnight> jona: at the application level?
20:59:47 <PaulKnight> bob: using a non-anonymous replyTo, you allow a future response to come on that channel
21:00:35 <yinleng> yinleng has joined #ws-addr
21:01:28 <PaulKnight> bob: can someone craft a response?  it is an overall WS-Adderessing question in some ways.  Can someone try to take ownership to tease out what Todd means?
21:02:05 <PaulKnight> Anish: like jonathan, I'm not sure what the issue is...
21:02:43 <PaulKnight> jonathan: I will respond to him and try to get more detail, and explain our thinking.
21:02:52 <TRutt> q+
21:03:06 <PaulKnight> ACTION: jonathan to respond to author (Todd)
21:03:30 <Zakim> -Dave_Orchard
21:03:46 <PaulKnight> Bob: We will need two hours for the meeting next week, things are piling up
21:03:58 <PaulKnight> Bob: I have opened registration for the F2F
21:04:20 <PaulKnight> Bob: planning a Wednesday PM activity, possibly at Museum of Fine Arts
21:04:37 <PaulKnight> bob: it would need to be fairly early, by 6:30
21:04:54 <Zakim> -Katy_Warr
21:04:55 <Zakim> -Anish
21:04:56 <Zakim> -Jonathan_Marsh
21:04:57 <Zakim> -Tom_Rutt
21:04:58 <PaulKnight> bob: adjhourning now, prepare for 2 hours next week!
21:04:59 <Zakim> -Hugo
21:05:00 <Zakim> -Marc_Hadley
21:05:01 <Zakim> -Andreas_Bjarlestam
21:05:02 <Zakim> -Vikas_Deolaliker
21:05:03 <Zakim> -Bob_Freund
21:05:05 <Zakim> -David_Illsley
21:05:06 <Zakim> -Prasad_Yendluri
21:05:07 <Zakim> -TonyR
21:05:13 <Zakim> -Gilbert_Pilz
21:05:16 <Zakim> -Paul_Knight
21:06:16 <Gil> Gil has left #ws-addr
21:06:48 <hugo> RRSAgent, make log public
21:06:54 <hugo> RRSAgent, draft minutes
21:06:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/03-ws-addr-minutes.html hugo
21:06:54 <yinleng> yinleng has left #ws-addr
21:08:45 <GlenD> GlenD has joined #ws-addr
21:09:36 <GlenD> I assume call is over?
21:11:59 <GlenD> I'll take that as yes :)
21:32:33 <TRutt> TRutt has left #ws-addr
21:34:29 <dhull> dhull has joined #ws-addr
22:05:00 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, Dave_Hull, in WS_AddrWG()4:00PM
22:05:01 <Zakim> WS_AddrWG()4:00PM has ended
22:05:04 <Zakim> Attendees were Bob_Freund, David_Illsley, Gilbert_Pilz, Nilo, Paul_Knight, Mark_Little, Andreas_Bjarlestam, Vikas_Deolaliker, Hugo, Tom_Rutt, Dave_Hull, Prasad_Yendluri,
22:05:06 <Zakim> ... Jonathan_Marsh, TonyR, Katy_Warr, Dave_Orchard, GlenD, Marc_Hadley, Anish
22:14:58 <pauld> pauld has joined #ws-addr
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