12:53:27 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #htmltf
12:53:27 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/04/03-htmltf-irc
12:53:38 <RalphS> zakim, this will be htmltf
12:53:39 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, RalphS
12:53:41 <RalphS> zakim, this will be html
12:53:41 <Zakim> ok, RalphS; I see SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
12:53:52 <RalphS> rrsagent, please make record public
12:54:19 <RalphS> Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML TF
12:54:23 <RalphS> Chair: Ben
12:54:29 <RalphS> Regrets: Jeremy
12:56:04 <RalphS> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2006/03/27-htmltf-minutes
13:01:12 <Zakim> SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM has now started
13:01:19 <Zakim> +Ralph
13:01:37 <RalphS> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Apr/0002.html
13:04:44 <benadida> benadida has joined #htmltf
13:05:16 <Zakim> +Ben_Adida
13:05:58 <MarkB_> MarkB_ has joined #htmltf
13:06:54 <Steven> Steven has joined #htmltf
13:07:02 <Zakim> +??P11
13:07:03 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
13:07:05 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
13:07:07 <Zakim> +Steven
13:07:09 <MarkB_> zakim, i am ?
13:07:09 <Zakim> +MarkB_; got it
13:08:47 <RalphS> agenda+ Action Item Review
13:08:57 <RalphS> agenda+ Report on Discussion with Mozilla [Ben]
13:09:07 <RalphS> agenda+ XHTML 1.1 Modularization of RDF/A
13:09:18 <RalphS> agenda+ Implementation: new modular RDF/A bookmarklet [Ben]
13:09:46 <RalphS> agenda+ Updating Primer WD
13:10:16 <RalphS> [note; April 17 is an MIT holiday]
13:10:29 <RalphS> Ben: My WWW2006 Dev Track proposal was accepted
13:10:38 <RalphS> Mark: my proposal was not accepted
13:11:05 <RalphS> ... my second proposal on using XHTML as an application development language was accepted, however
13:11:25 <RalphS> ... perhaps we can squeeze some demos into the accepted talk
13:11:31 <Steven_> Steven_ has joined #htmltf
13:11:48 <RalphS> Ben: congratulations are shared with the group, as it's a group effort
13:11:52 <RalphS> zakim, move to next agendum
13:11:52 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Action Item Review" taken up [from RalphS]
13:12:14 <RalphS> Mark: let's schedule time to talk about these presentations also
13:12:25 <RalphS> ... I'm doing an RDF/A presentation at XTech in Amsterdam
13:13:07 <RalphS> Ben: Mike Shaver is interested in having RDF/A in a slot in a session he's organizing
13:14:07 <RalphS> Steven: 17 April is also Easter holiday in Europe
13:14:33 <RalphS> RESOLVED: meet 18 April rather than 17 April
13:15:40 <RalphS> Steven: slight risk for 10 April as I'll be in Amsterdam
13:17:12 <RalphS> [PENDING] ACTION: Ben review Jeremy's actions [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/20-htmltf-minutes.html#action14]
13:17:26 <RalphS> [PENDING] ACTION: Ben start separate mail threads on remaining discussion topics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action04]
13:17:31 <RalphS> [PENDING] ACTION: Ben talk off-line with Jeremy about a realistic implementation schedule [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]
13:17:40 <RalphS> -- withdrawn
13:17:53 <RalphS> [PENDING] ACTION: Ben to develop a plan for a marketing/news web site about RDF/A and send it to the list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-minutes.html#action16]
13:18:14 <RalphS> Ben: Creative Commons has made an offer to host such a site
13:18:24 <RalphS> Mark: is this a general offer or specific to RDF/A?
13:19:08 <RalphS> Ben: targeted at RDF/A
13:20:09 <RalphS> [PENDING] ACTION: Ben to draft full response to Bjoern's 2004 email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-minutes.html#action03]
13:20:37 <RalphS> ACTION: Mark, Steven, and Ralph respond to Ben's off-list draft of response to Bjoern [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-minutes.html#action05]
13:20:48 <RalphS> -- pending
13:21:15 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben update his bookmarklet for XHTML mode [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-minutes.html#action12]
13:21:22 <RalphS> -- pending
13:21:30 <RalphS> Ben: not complete but did some more investigation
13:21:57 <RalphS> ... Firefox requires application/xhtml+xml to be well-formed XML
13:22:06 <RalphS> Steven: IE doesn't accept this mime type anyway
13:22:46 <RalphS> ... Opera used to refuse to display if it was not well-formed but now it tries to fix it up and display it anyway
13:22:56 <RalphS> ... so Opera used to do the right thing but doesn't any longer
13:23:54 <RalphS> Ralph: Opera's position is that users blame the browser if the page doesn't display, not the page author :(
13:24:10 <RalphS> Ben: I split the RDF/A parsing out from my bookmarklet
13:24:36 <RalphS> ... for XHTML mode I was planning to parse the LINK and META elements
13:25:20 <RalphS> Mark: you don't need to say that the bookmarklet *only* works with application/xhtml+xml
13:25:25 <RalphS> ACTION: Jeremy followup on HEAD about= edge case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action03]
13:25:27 <RalphS> -- continues
13:25:33 <RalphS> ACTION: Jeremy followup with Mark on the question of multiple triples from nested meta and add to issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action01]
13:25:36 <RalphS> -- continues
13:25:43 <RalphS> ACTION: Jeremy look into the XHTML namespace issue and write thoughts into email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action02]... next
13:25:45 <RalphS> -- continues
13:25:51 <RalphS> ACTION: Jeremy propose wording on reification [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action02]
13:25:53 <RalphS> -- continues
13:25:58 <RalphS> ACTION: Mark work on a first draft of an RDF/A XHTML 1.1 module [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]
13:26:00 <RalphS> -- continues
13:26:18 <RalphS> Mark: I'm hoping to be able to get to this action towards the end of this week
13:26:29 <RalphS> ACTION: once Steven sends editors' draft of XHTML2, all TF members take a look and comment on showstopper issues only [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]
13:26:50 <RalphS> -- continues
13:27:10 <RalphS> Steven: we've had a few spec crises the past week and all my time has gone to those
13:28:16 <RalphS> ... document maturity transitions
13:28:55 <RalphS> move to next agendum
13:28:55 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Report on Discussion with Mozilla" taken up [from Ben]
13:29:08 <RalphS> Ben: during my vacation last week I stopped in at Mozilla
13:29:35 <RalphS> ... fortuitous, as Mozilla was having their own meeting too
13:29:44 <RalphS> ... met Mike Shaver
13:30:15 <RalphS> ... I suggested it would help if Mozilla would process LINK and META
13:35:43 <RalphS> ... connection between RDF/A and "tails" in Firefox
13:36:33 <RalphS> ... Ray Ozzie's LiveClipboard demo showed copy&paste of rich data
13:36:49 <RalphS> ... it occurred to me that this kind of thing can be done with RDF/A and would be more functional
13:37:18 <RalphS> Mark: we're making a Sidewinder demo that uses a .js file for cross-app communication
13:39:58 <RalphS> Mark: see report of IPTC meeting; those folk heard about ATOM
13:40:18 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Apr/0001.html Notes from the spring IPTC meeting [Misha Wolf]
13:40:31 <RalphS> ... IPTC is publicly supporting RDF/A
13:41:25 <RalphS> ... they've also made an arrangement with ATOM
13:41:32 <RalphS> ... so news sites will be marked up with RDF/A
13:41:38 <RalphS> ... very soon
13:42:35 <RalphS> Ralph: they're relying on features of RDF/A, right?  a NewsML file won't say it's an HTML file.
13:42:49 <RalphS> Mark: yes, but an RDF/A processor will get the intended triples out of a NewsML file
13:43:30 <RalphS> ... NewsML documents aren't meant to be shipped directly to the browser; they're intended to be processed in some fashion first
13:43:53 <benadida> http://ben.adida.net/rdfa/new/howto
13:44:01 <RalphS> move to next agendum
13:44:01 <Zakim> agendum 3. "XHTML 1.1 Modularization of RDF/A" taken up [from RalphS]
13:44:10 <RalphS> take up agendum 4
13:44:15 <RalphS> zakim, take up agendum 4
13:44:15 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Implementation: new modular RDF/A bookmarklet" taken up [from Ben via RalphS]
13:44:41 <benadida> http://ben.adida.net/rdfa/new/cc.js
13:44:52 <RalphS> Ben: 'howto' is a quick introduction on bootstrapping yourself into an RDF/A parser
13:45:11 <RalphS> ... cc.js finds CC licenses and offers users a link to read them
13:45:13 <benadida> RDFA.CALLBACK_DONE_PARSING = function() {
13:45:32 <RalphS> ... ^ is the only piece of customized code for the bookmarklet
13:46:04 <RalphS> ... asynchronous javascript script loading does force you to do all sorts of hacks
13:46:27 <RalphS> ... wordpress blog plug-in is now RDF/A aware -- looks for CC licenses and does the right thing
13:46:53 <RalphS> Ralph: kudos to Ben!
13:47:13 <RalphS> Ben: I re-wrote my 'red box highlighter' to be based on this parser
13:48:07 <RalphS> zakim, agenda order 4,5
13:48:07 <Zakim> ok, RalphS
13:48:10 <RalphS> move to next agendum
13:48:10 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Updating Primer WD" taken up [from RalphS]
13:48:28 <RalphS> Ben: thoughts on what we'd like to add?  examples for RDF Collections?
13:49:14 <RalphS> Mark: given how easy it is to add things to blogs, I'd like to see the first part of the primer extended to include RSS feeds, ForSale items, birthday, etc.
13:49:17 <RalphS> ... keep embellishing
13:49:48 <RalphS> Ralph: art to embellishing that doesn't result in a long complicated-looking thing for the first-time reader
13:50:02 <RalphS> Steven: Examples section could contain lots and lots of them
13:50:11 <RalphS> ... common use cases are an ideal way to show things
13:50:44 <RalphS> Ralph: progressive exposure of details
13:51:18 <RalphS> Mark: keep an overarching tutorial but rather than illustrating each individual point with a small box, dwell on each one for a bit and expand before moving on to the next case
13:51:31 <RalphS> ... we're talking to people who can do HTML markup and now want to know how to do RDF/A
13:52:03 <RalphS> Mark: maybe the Web site is the place to add lots and lots of examples
13:53:12 <RalphS> Ben: let's try to close some of these actions
13:53:29 <RalphS> Topic: Multiple values in 'rel'
13:53:48 <RalphS> Mark: IPTC was concerned that we might not support multiple CURIEs in 'rel'
13:54:00 <RalphS> Steven: I can't think of a showstopper
13:54:20 <RalphS> RESOLVED: rel, rev, and property may include multiple CURIEs
13:54:36 <RalphS> Ralph: what about 'about'?
13:54:50 <RalphS> Ben: 'about' is inherited so the number of triples may expand a lot
13:55:12 <RalphS> Ralph: "all of these photos were created by Mark Birbeck"
13:55:24 <RalphS> Steven: rev only works with literals
13:55:46 <RalphS> Ben: I think of 'about' and 'href' as being mirror-images
13:55:52 <RalphS> ... and we don't know how to do multiple hrefs
13:56:31 <RalphS> Mark: for a machine to generate compact markup it seems reasonable
13:57:16 <RalphS> Ralph: if the HTML WG thinks multiple values in 'href' is ok, then we might proceed. But what is a browser supposed to do?
13:57:30 <RalphS> Mark: multiple values in href could create a menu of destinations
13:58:07 <RalphS> [adjourned]
13:58:11 <Zakim> -Steven
13:58:12 <Zakim> -MarkB_
13:58:13 <Zakim> -Ben_Adida
13:58:15 <Zakim> -Ralph
13:58:16 <Zakim> SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM has ended
13:58:17 <Zakim> Attendees were Ralph, Ben_Adida, Steven, MarkB_
13:58:43 <RalphS> rrsagent, please draft minutes
13:58:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/03-htmltf-minutes.html RalphS
13:58:48 <RalphS> zakim, bye
13:58:49 <Zakim> Zakim has left #htmltf
13:58:55 <benadida> benadida has left #htmltf
13:59:33 <RalphS> rrsagent, bye
13:59:33 <RRSAgent> I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/03-htmltf-actions.rdf :
13:59:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark, Steven, and Ralph respond to Ben's off-list draft of response to Bjoern [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-minutes.html#action05] [1]
13:59:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/03-htmltf-irc#T13-20-37
13:59:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben update his bookmarklet for XHTML mode [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-minutes.html#action12] [2]
13:59:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/03-htmltf-irc#T13-21-15
13:59:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jeremy followup on HEAD about= edge case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action03] [3]
13:59:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/03-htmltf-irc#T13-25-25
13:59:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jeremy followup with Mark on the question of multiple triples from nested meta and add to issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action01] [4]
13:59:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/03-htmltf-irc#T13-25-33
13:59:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jeremy look into the XHTML namespace issue and write thoughts into email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action02]... next [5]
13:59:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/03-htmltf-irc#T13-25-43
13:59:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jeremy propose wording on reification [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action02] [6]
13:59:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/03-htmltf-irc#T13-25-51
13:59:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark work on a first draft of an RDF/A XHTML 1.1 module [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action01] [7]
13:59:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/03-htmltf-irc#T13-25-58
13:59:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: once Steven sends editors' draft of XHTML2, all TF members take a look and comment on showstopper issues only [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action01] [8]
13:59:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/03-htmltf-irc#T13-26-29