IRC log of i18nits on 2006-03-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:47:42 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
14:47:55 [fsasaki]
meeting: i18n ITS working group (editor's call)
14:47:59 [fsasaki]
chair: Yves
14:48:01 [fsasaki]
scribe: Felix
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scribeNick: fsasaki
14:48:27 [YvesS]
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14:48:49 [YvesS]
Hi Felix. What do you think we should discuss today?
14:49:14 [fsasaki]
hi Yves. How about the naming issues? I think that's what the said on Wednesday
14:49:23 [fsasaki]
do you have other proposals?
14:49:45 [YvesS]
"data cat" and "loc prop"? OK
14:49:52 [fsasaki]
14:50:47 [YvesS]
I have a question about overwriting vs overiding too.
14:50:47 [fsasaki]
Btw., I am *slowly* integrating the changes into the draft. But it takes a long time, since so much terminology changed. If you see errors, just ping me inbetween (as with the DITA examples, thanks).
14:50:52 [fsasaki]
14:51:04 [YvesS]
14:51:37 [YvesS]
I'll try to re-read completely the draft this today or this week-end
14:52:41 [fsasaki]
I am not as far as I wanted with my change ... I hope to have everything integrated in Tuesday (Japanese time)
14:52:56 [YvesS]
14:53:07 [fsasaki]
But I'll post DIFFs to the member list after each "topic" (currently the syntax changes )
14:53:33 [YvesS]
sounds good.
14:54:08 [YvesS]
BTW: can we close any bug? it seems the more we discuss them the more we have :)
14:55:43 [YvesS]
Also: just to warn you: I've talked with DITA people about translate and the expected behavior is much more user-oriented than our rules. I'll try to summarize all this soon.
14:55:53 [fsasaki]
I guess that's normal :) but I don't think we have to worry: If we discuss until May what we have currently in time schedule, we'll be fine. I am entering new bugs only so that we don't forget them. Is there anything particular which you want to close?
14:55:59 [fsasaki]
14:56:22 [YvesS]
no, I was just looking at the list getting longer :)
14:56:49 [fsasaki]
14:58:29 [fsasaki]
I think it's o.k. not to spend time on everything, just use bugzilla as a reminder of issues. We *have to* address only the last call comments from outside which we will get
14:58:40 [Zakim]
I18N_ITS(EDIT)10:00AM has now started
14:58:46 [fsasaki]
zakim, dial felix-home
14:58:46 [Zakim]
ok, fsasaki; the call is being made
14:58:48 [Zakim]
14:59:31 [Zakim]
15:07:28 [fsasaki]
<its:translateRule select="//*[name()='a' or ...] translate="yes"
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<its:translateRule select="//*[name()='b' or ...] translate="no"
15:08:57 [YvesS]
15:09:32 [Zakim]
15:09:57 [YvesS]
15:10:02 [chriLi]
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15:10:07 [YvesS]
15:10:07 [fsasaki]
15:11:11 [fsasaki]
topic: translatability in DITA
15:11:19 [fsasaki]
examples from Yves:
15:12:07 [fsasaki]
Yves: for third <p> element, it is very difficult to mimic this with ITS
15:12:31 [fsasaki]
.. translate "yes" in DITA means: only what is "usually" translatable again
15:12:57 [fsasaki]
Christian: we do "pointing" with our rules
15:13:16 [fsasaki]
.. but the computation of values differs in DITA
15:14:04 [fsasaki]
felix: how would we solve this for DITA?
15:14:15 [fsasaki]
Christian: two possibilities:
15:14:29 [fsasaki]
.. creating ITS for an arbitrary computation of values
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.. no 2: we say this is "pointing", and this is only valid in very restricted environments
15:15:51 [fsasaki]
.. or we try to create ITS mechanisms which are able to mimic DITAs behavior
15:17:14 [fsasaki]
felix: how about analyzing DITA more in detail?
15:18:39 [fsasaki]
yves: XLIFF has the same behavior as ITS
15:19:23 [fsasaki]
s/as ITS/as DITA
15:23:48 [fsasaki]
topic: naming issue: data category?
15:24:24 [fsasaki]
yves: no strong feeling about this
15:24:50 [fsasaki]
.. only the order in the draft is not good: we talk about it before we defined it
15:26:01 [fsasaki]
felix: +1 for data category
15:26:41 [fsasaki]
christian: changing a term has a lot of implications
15:27:52 [fsasaki]
felix: no need to change that, would create conclusion between people who have followed ITS
15:28:12 [fsasaki]
yves: o.k.
15:28:48 [fsasaki]
action: Felix to write a mail to the data category thread
15:29:13 [fsasaki]
topic: naming issues: tag set
15:29:17 [fsasaki]
yves: that bug is closed
15:29:26 [fsasaki]
topic: naming issue: localization property
15:29:56 [fsasaki]
yves: the paragraph is fine with me
15:30:44 [fsasaki]
felix: +1
15:32:13 [fsasaki]
topic: draft text and usage of "overwriting"
15:32:31 [fsasaki]
yves: I keep seeing "overriding" everywhere, also in W3C specs
15:32:36 [YvesS]
15:33:04 [fsasaki]
.. e.g. XHTML talks about the same functionality
15:35:04 [fsasaki]
action: Yves to write a mail about his finding about the usage of "overriding"
15:36:07 [fsasaki]
topic: editing environment
15:36:19 [fsasaki]
christian: editing environment works
15:37:44 [fsasaki]
.. I took an ODD document, and it was not valid
15:38:24 [fsasaki]
felix: might be the @diff attribute
15:39:17 [fsasaki]
topic: change of the schema design
15:39:33 [fsasaki]
thread between Sebastian and Felix
15:43:06 [fsasaki]
Yves: I would use the schema out of the box
15:43:16 [fsasaki]
.. I would not change any definitions
15:44:40 [fsasaki]
christian: me too
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15:47:19 [fsasaki]
15:48:55 [fsasaki]
yves: these definitions are geared to document centered XML
15:49:00 [fsasaki]
.. not data oriented XML
15:50:49 [fsasaki]
15:52:31 [fsasaki]
> The conformance section could say "you have to
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> either use our schema fragments, or else what you
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> write has to implement exactly the same constraints as those
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> schema fragments".
15:53:32 [fsasaki]
felix: how about this 'simplistic' conformance description?
15:53:45 [fsasaki]
action: Yves to look at conformance section
15:56:11 [fsasaki]
topic: rules element with prefixed attributes?
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<its:translateRule selector=".." translate="'yes"
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<its:translateRule its:selector=".." its:translate="'yes"
15:58:27 [fsasaki]
15:59:37 [fsasaki]
15:59:53 [fsasaki]
<att type="global">translate</att>
16:00:59 [fsasaki]
action: Yves to see what problems could happen if there is no prefix at rule elements?
16:02:46 [Zakim]
16:02:47 [Zakim]
16:02:56 [fsasaki]
present: Christian, Felix, Yves
16:03:02 [fsasaki]
rrsagent, make log public
16:03:12 [fsasaki]
rrsagent, draft minutes
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I have made the request to generate fsasaki
16:06:42 [Zakim]
16:06:43 [Zakim]
I18N_ITS(EDIT)10:00AM has ended
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Attendees were Yves_Savourel, Felix, Christian
16:06:50 [fsasaki]
zakim, bye
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rrsagent, bye
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I see 4 open action items saved in :
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ACTION: Felix to write a mail to the data category thread [1]
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recorded in
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ACTION: Yves to write a mail about his finding about the usage of "overriding" [2]
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recorded in
16:06:54 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Yves to look at conformance section [3]
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recorded in
16:06:55 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Yves to see what problems could happen if there is no prefix at rule elements? [4]
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recorded in