14:47:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18nits
14:47:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/03/31-i18nits-irc
14:47:55 <fsasaki> meeting: i18n ITS working group (editor's call)
14:47:59 <fsasaki> chair: Yves
14:48:01 <fsasaki> scribe: Felix
14:48:05 <fsasaki> scribeNick: fsasaki
14:48:27 <YvesS> YvesS has joined #i18nits
14:48:49 <YvesS> Hi Felix. What do you think we should discuss today?
14:49:14 <fsasaki> hi Yves. How about the naming issues? I think that's what the said on Wednesday
14:49:23 <fsasaki> do you have other proposals?
14:49:45 <YvesS> "data cat" and "loc prop"? OK
14:49:52 <fsasaki> ok
14:50:47 <YvesS> I have a question about overwriting vs overiding too.
14:50:47 <fsasaki> Btw., I am *slowly* integrating the changes into the draft. But it takes a long time, since so much terminology changed. If you see errors, just ping me inbetween (as with the DITA examples, thanks).
14:50:52 <fsasaki> ok
14:51:04 <YvesS> ok
14:51:37 <YvesS> I'll try to re-read completely the draft this today or this week-end
14:52:41 <fsasaki> I am not as far as I wanted with my change ... I hope to have everything integrated in Tuesday (Japanese time)
14:52:56 <YvesS> ok.
14:53:07 <fsasaki> But I'll post DIFFs to the member list after each "topic" (currently the syntax changes )
14:53:33 <YvesS> sounds good.
14:54:08 <YvesS> BTW: can we close any bug? it seems the more we discuss them the more we have :)
14:55:43 <YvesS> Also: just to warn you: I've talked with DITA people about translate and the expected behavior is much more user-oriented than our rules. I'll try to summarize all this soon.
14:55:53 <fsasaki> I guess that's normal :) but I don't think we have to worry: If we discuss until May what we have currently in time schedule, we'll be fine. I am entering new bugs only so that we don't forget them. Is there anything particular which you want to close?
14:55:59 <fsasaki> ok
14:56:22 <YvesS> no, I was just looking at the list getting longer :)
14:56:49 <fsasaki> :)
14:58:29 <fsasaki> I think it's o.k. not to spend time on everything, just use bugzilla as a reminder of issues. We *have to* address only the last call comments from outside which we will get
14:58:40 <Zakim> I18N_ITS(EDIT)10:00AM has now started
14:58:46 <fsasaki> zakim, dial felix-home
14:58:46 <Zakim> ok, fsasaki; the call is being made
14:58:48 <Zakim> +Yves_Savourel
14:59:31 <Zakim> +Felix
15:07:28 <fsasaki> <its:translateRule select="//*[name()='a' or ...] translate="yes"
15:07:39 <fsasaki> <its:translateRule select="//*[name()='b' or ...] translate="no"
15:08:57 <YvesS> http://okapi.translate.com/Utilities/ITSTest.aspx
15:09:32 <Zakim> +??P9
15:09:57 <YvesS> http://okapi.translate.com/Utilities/ITSTest.aspx
15:10:02 <chriLi> chriLi has joined #i18nits
15:10:07 <YvesS> http://okapi.translate.com/Utilities/ITSTest.aspx
15:10:07 <fsasaki> http://okapi.translate.com/Utilities/ITSTest.aspx
15:11:11 <fsasaki> topic: translatability in DITA
15:11:19 <fsasaki> examples from Yves: http://okapi.translate.com/Utilities/ITSTest.aspx
15:12:07 <fsasaki> Yves: for third <p> element, it is very difficult to mimic this with ITS
15:12:31 <fsasaki> .. translate "yes" in DITA means: only what is "usually" translatable again
15:12:57 <fsasaki> Christian: we do "pointing" with our rules
15:13:16 <fsasaki> .. but the computation of values differs in DITA
15:14:04 <fsasaki> felix: how would we solve this for DITA?
15:14:15 <fsasaki> Christian: two possibilities:
15:14:29 <fsasaki> .. creating ITS for an arbitrary computation of values
15:14:53 <fsasaki> .. no 2: we say this is "pointing", and this is only valid in very restricted environments
15:15:51 <fsasaki> .. or we try to create ITS mechanisms which are able to mimic DITAs behavior
15:17:14 <fsasaki> felix: how about analyzing DITA more in detail?
15:18:39 <fsasaki> yves: XLIFF has the same behavior as ITS
15:19:23 <fsasaki> s/as ITS/as DITA
15:23:48 <fsasaki> topic: naming issue: data category?
15:24:24 <fsasaki> yves: no strong feeling about this
15:24:50 <fsasaki> .. only the order in the draft is not good: we talk about it before we defined it
15:26:01 <fsasaki> felix: +1 for data category
15:26:41 <fsasaki> christian: changing a term has a lot of implications
15:27:52 <fsasaki> felix: no need to change that, would create conclusion between people who have followed ITS
15:28:12 <fsasaki> yves: o.k.
15:28:48 <fsasaki> action: Felix to write a mail to the data category thread
15:29:13 <fsasaki> topic: naming issues: tag set
15:29:17 <fsasaki> yves: that bug is closed
15:29:26 <fsasaki> topic: naming issue: localization property
15:29:56 <fsasaki> yves: the paragraph is fine with me
15:30:44 <fsasaki> felix: +1
15:32:13 <fsasaki> topic: draft text and usage of "overwriting"
15:32:31 <fsasaki> yves: I keep seeing "overriding" everywhere, also in W3C specs
15:32:36 <YvesS> http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/dirlang.html#h-8.2.4
15:33:04 <fsasaki> .. e.g. XHTML talks about the same functionality
15:35:04 <fsasaki> action: Yves to write a mail about his finding about the usage of "overriding"
15:36:07 <fsasaki> topic: editing environment
15:36:19 <fsasaki> christian: editing environment works
15:37:44 <fsasaki> .. I took an ODD document, and it was not valid
15:38:24 <fsasaki> felix: might be the @diff attribute
15:39:17 <fsasaki> topic: change of the schema design
15:39:33 <fsasaki> thread between Sebastian and Felix
15:43:06 <fsasaki> Yves: I would use the schema out of the box
15:43:16 <fsasaki> .. I would not change any definitions
15:44:40 <fsasaki> christian: me too
15:46:17 <chriLi> chriLi has joined #i18nits
15:47:19 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/itstagset.html#conformance-product-schema
15:48:55 <fsasaki> yves: these definitions are geared to document centered XML
15:49:00 <fsasaki> .. not data oriented XML
15:50:49 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0501.html
15:52:31 <fsasaki> > The conformance section could say "you have to
15:52:32 <fsasaki> > either use our schema fragments, or else what you
15:52:32 <fsasaki> > write has to implement exactly the same constraints as those
15:52:32 <fsasaki> > schema fragments".
15:53:32 <fsasaki> felix: how about this 'simplistic' conformance description?
15:53:45 <fsasaki> action: Yves to look at conformance section
15:56:11 <fsasaki> topic: rules element with prefixed attributes?
15:56:48 <fsasaki> <its:translateRule selector=".." translate="'yes"
15:56:54 <fsasaki> <its:translateRule its:selector=".." its:translate="'yes"
15:58:27 <fsasaki> <att>translate</att>
15:59:37 <fsasaki> <att>its:translate</att>
15:59:53 <fsasaki> <att type="global">translate</att>
16:00:59 <fsasaki> action: Yves to see what problems could happen if there is no prefix at rule elements?
16:02:46 <Zakim> -Yves_Savourel
16:02:47 <Zakim> -Felix
16:02:56 <fsasaki> present: Christian, Felix, Yves
16:03:02 <fsasaki> rrsagent, make log public
16:03:12 <fsasaki> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:03:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/03/31-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
16:06:42 <Zakim> -Christian
16:06:43 <Zakim> I18N_ITS(EDIT)10:00AM has ended
16:06:44 <Zakim> Attendees were Yves_Savourel, Felix, Christian
16:06:50 <fsasaki> zakim, bye
16:06:50 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18nits
16:06:54 <fsasaki> rrsagent, bye
16:06:54 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/31-i18nits-actions.rdf :
16:06:54 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Felix to write a mail to the data category thread [1]
16:06:54 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/31-i18nits-irc#T15-28-48
16:06:54 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Yves to write a mail about his finding about the usage of "overriding" [2]
16:06:54 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/31-i18nits-irc#T15-35-04
16:06:54 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Yves to look at conformance section [3]
16:06:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/31-i18nits-irc#T15-53-45
16:06:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Yves to see what problems could happen if there is no prefix at rule elements? [4]
16:06:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/31-i18nits-irc#T16-00-59