IRC log of wai-wcag on 2006-03-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

21:00:49 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag

21:00:49 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/03/30-wai-wcag-irc

21:00:52 [Zakim]

+??P5

21:01:05 [ben]

zakim, ??P5 is Ben_and_Gregg

21:01:05 [Zakim]

+Ben_and_Gregg; got it

21:01:12 [Zakim]

+Tim_Boland

21:01:17 [Zakim]

+Loretta_Guarino_Reid

21:01:25 [bengt]

zakim, was is sorcha =

21:01:25 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'was is sorcha =', bengt

21:01:29 [Zakim]

+David_MacDonald

21:01:36 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller.a]

21:01:43 [rscano]

zakim, [IP is Roberto_Scano

21:01:43 [Zakim]

sorry, rscano, I do not recognize a party named '[IP'

21:01:48 [ben]

RRSAgent, do not start a new log

21:01:52 [bengt]

zakim, +[IPcaller] is sorcha

21:01:52 [Zakim]

sorry, bengt, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'

21:01:54 [ben]

RRSAgent, make log world

21:01:58 [rscano]

zakim, [IPcaller.a] is Roberto_Scano

21:01:58 [Zakim]

+Roberto_Scano; got it

21:02:01 [Zakim]

+[IBM]

21:02:01 [ben]

Meeting: WCAG Weekly Telecon

21:02:03 [Zakim]

+Michael_Cooper

21:02:06 [ben]

Zakim,this is WAI_WCAG

21:02:06 [Zakim]

ben, this was already WAI_WCAG()3:00PM

21:02:07 [bengt]

zakim, [IPcaller] is sorcha

21:02:08 [Zakim]

ok, ben; that matches WAI_WCAG()3:00PM

21:02:09 [rscano]

zakim, I am Roberto_Scano

21:02:10 [Zakim]

+sorcha; got it

21:02:11 [Michael]

zakim, I am Michael_Cooper

21:02:12 [Zakim]

ok, rscano, I now associate you with Roberto_Scano

21:02:13 [Zakim]

ok, Michael, I now associate you with Michael_Cooper

21:02:15 [ben]

Chair: Gregg_Vanderheiden and John_Slatin

21:02:21 [ben]

Regrets: Roberto_Ellero, Cynthia_Shelly

21:02:27 [Andi]

Andi has joined #wai-wcag

21:02:28 [Zakim]

+ +1.202.498.aabb

21:02:31 [rscano]

zakim, mute me

21:02:31 [Zakim]

Roberto_Scano should now be muted

21:02:36 [ben]

agenda+ SC 1.3.1 Failures (March 30)

21:02:44 [Zakim]

+Judy

21:02:47 [ben]

agenda+ How to Meet Documents for 1.2.2 and 2.3.2 and Text of Guideline 4.1

21:02:53 [Zakim]

+Becky_Gibson

21:02:56 [ben]

agenda+ Understanding Guideline Documents

21:03:07 [ben]

agenda+ Planning and timeline for Last Call

21:03:09 [gregg]

gregg has joined #wai-wcag

21:03:27 [Becky]

Becky has joined #wai-wcag

21:03:34 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

21:03:36 [Makoto]

zakim, [IPcaller] is Makoto_Ueki

21:03:36 [Zakim]

+Makoto_Ueki; got it

21:03:36 [ben]

zakim, who is on the phone?

21:03:36 [Zakim]

On the phone I see sorcha, Bengt_Farre, John_Slatin, Ben_and_Gregg, Tim_Boland, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, David_MacDonald, Roberto_Scano (muted), [IBM], Michael_Cooper,

21:03:40 [Zakim]

... +1.202.498.aabb, Judy, Becky_Gibson, Makoto_Ueki

21:03:58 [ben]

zakim, [IBM is Andi_Snow-Weaver

21:03:58 [Zakim]

+Andi_Snow-Weaver; got it

21:04:19 [Zakim]

+Yvette_Hoitink

21:04:25 [bengt]

couldnt hear the name

21:04:30 [ben]

zakim, +1.202.498.aabb is Bruce_Bailey

21:04:30 [Zakim]

+Bruce_Bailey; got it

21:04:32 [Zakim]

+Christophe_Strobbe

21:04:44 [ben]

zakim, who is on the phone?

21:04:44 [Zakim]

On the phone I see sorcha, Bengt_Farre, John_Slatin, Ben_and_Gregg, Tim_Boland, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, David_MacDonald, Roberto_Scano (muted), Andi_Snow-Weaver, Michael_Cooper,

21:04:47 [Zakim]

... Bruce_Bailey, Judy, Becky_Gibson, Makoto_Ueki, Yvette_Hoitink, Christophe_Strobbe

21:05:12 [Zakim]

+Alex_Li

21:05:12 [Sofia]

Sofia has joined #wai-wcag

21:05:56 [ben]

zakim, take up agendum 1

21:05:56 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "SC 1.3.1 Failures (March 30)" taken up [from ben]

21:06:09 [Andi]

scribe:

21:06:14 [Andi]

scribe: Andi

21:06:18 [Zakim]

+Sofia_Celic

21:06:22 [ben]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2006JanMar/0668.html

21:06:28 [ben]

zakim, take up agendum 1

21:06:30 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "SC 1.3.1 Failures (March 30)" taken up [from ben]

21:06:35 [Zakim]

+Katie_Haritos-Shea

21:07:23 [David_MacDonald]

David_MacDonald has joined #wai-wcag

21:08:33 [Andi]

resolution: accept How to Meet Success Criterion 2.3.2, Understanding 1.3, 1.4, 2.2, 2.3, 2.5, 3.1, 4.2 with edits by consent decree

21:08:54 [Andi]

Topic: Failure due to using scripting events instead of anchors to create links

21:10:05 [Ryladog]

Ryladog has joined #wai-wcag

21:10:27 [Andi]

scribe: David_MacDonald

21:13:31 [David_MacDonald]

resolution: accept SC 1.3.1 , adopt with edits except for the last item... except the end of Michael recommendation starting at "another related situation..."

21:15:03 [Andi]

q+

21:15:34 [David_MacDonald]

topic: sc 1.3.1 Filure due to using structural markup in a way that does not represent relationships in the content

21:18:53 [David_MacDonald]

action: Andi to add a line in the wording of the text of the Failure technique to ensure that the failure does not cover layout tables

21:20:02 [David_MacDonald]

resolution: adopt sc 1.3.1 Filure due to using structural markup in a way that does not represent relationships in the content with Andi's edit to the language in the description to make sure it does not apply to layout tables

21:20:31 [David_MacDonald]

s/Filure/Failure

21:20:44 [David_MacDonald]

s/Filure/Failure

21:22:00 [David_MacDonald]

Topic: 2.4.4 Failure: Failure due to not programmatically associating a link with text which its purpose can be determined

21:23:40 [Andi]

q-

21:24:13 [ben]

ack Lor

21:24:52 [Zakim]

-Bruce_Bailey

21:25:21 [Zakim]

+Bruce_Bailey

21:28:00 [Yvette]

q+ to say "failure due to not including a description of a link"

21:30:29 [gregg]

ACK Y

21:30:29 [Zakim]

Yvette, you wanted to say "failure due to not including a description of a link"

21:35:17 [David_MacDonald]

resolution: do not adopt the failure 2.4.4 Failure: Failure due to not programmatically associating a link with text which its purpose can be determined. And adding a line in the example of the parent element example that says that preceeding parent element must contain the link or it is not a parent.

21:36:15 [ben]

zakim,closethis item

21:36:15 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'closethis item', ben

21:36:18 [David_MacDonald]

topic: how to meet doc....1.2.2

21:36:21 [ben]

zakim, close this item

21:36:21 [Zakim]

agendum 1 closed

21:36:22 [Zakim]

I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

21:36:23 [Zakim]

2. How to Meet Documents for 1.2.2 and 2.3.2 and Text of Guideline 4.1 [from ben]

21:36:26 [ben]

zakim, take up agendum 2

21:36:26 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "How to Meet Documents for 1.2.2 and 2.3.2 and Text of Guideline 4.1" taken up [from ben]

21:38:29 [ben]

ack Lor

21:39:01 [judy]

q+

21:41:34 [ben]

zakim, who is on the phone?

21:41:34 [Zakim]

On the phone I see sorcha, Bengt_Farre, John_Slatin, Ben_and_Gregg, Tim_Boland, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, David_MacDonald, Roberto_Scano (muted), Andi_Snow-Weaver, Michael_Cooper,

21:41:37 [Zakim]

... Judy, Becky_Gibson, Makoto_Ueki, Yvette_Hoitink, Christophe_Strobbe, Alex_Li, Sofia_Celic (muted), Katie_Haritos-Shea, Bruce_Bailey

21:43:26 [Yvette]

q+ to ask for clarification

21:43:34 [ben]

ack judy

21:43:36 [judy]

q-

21:43:39 [ben]

ack Yve

21:43:39 [Zakim]

Yvette, you wanted to ask for clarification

21:45:22 [Zakim]

+Kerstin_Goldsmith

21:46:25 [Ryladog]

q+

21:47:53 [gregg]

ACK R

21:47:55 [gregg]

ACK J

21:48:21 [bengt]

zakim, who is making noise ?

21:48:25 [rscano]

zakim, mute me

21:48:25 [Zakim]

Roberto_Scano should now be muted

21:48:31 [Zakim]

bengt, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ben_and_Gregg (68%), Roberto_Scano (20%), Judy (30%), Yvette_Hoitink (4%)

21:48:48 [Ryladog]

q+

21:49:35 [David_MacDonald]

resolution: accept how to meet sc 1.2.2

21:51:17 [Ryladog]

q+

21:51:52 [Zakim]

-Bruce_Bailey

21:53:38 [Yvette]

zakim, mute me

21:53:38 [Zakim]

Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted

21:53:53 [David_MacDonald]

q+

21:57:17 [Zakim]

+??P0

21:57:19 [Zakim]

-Kerstin_Goldsmith

21:57:41 [Ryladog]

q-

22:00:18 [Zakim]

+Bruce_Bailey

22:00:39 [Zakim]

-Bruce_Bailey

22:00:57 [David_MacDonald]

resolution: accept John's definition of fully corrected screenplay with the old note about "a screenplay used to create removing "as it occurred and"

22:01:02 [Zakim]

-Alex_Li

22:01:04 [Zakim]

+Bruce_Bailey

22:01:28 [Zakim]

-sorcha

22:01:31 [Yvette]

zakim, unmute me

22:01:31 [Zakim]

Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted

22:01:48 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

22:02:03 [Sorcha]

IP caller is Sorcha Moore, Segala

22:02:11 [Yvette]

zakim, mute me

22:02:12 [Zakim]

Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted

22:02:19 [bengt]

zakim, [IP is SorchaMoore

22:02:19 [Zakim]

+SorchaMoore; got it

22:04:15 [David_MacDonald]

resolution: accept how to meet 1.2.2 with John's intent edit

22:04:53 [Andi]

scribe: Andi

22:05:27 [Andi]

topic: How to meet SC 2.3.2

22:06:46 [Zakim]

+[Microsoft]

22:06:49 [Yvette]

q+

22:07:02 [David_MacDonald]

q-

22:07:04 [ben]

ack John

22:07:09 [Yvette]

ack y

22:07:10 [ben]

ack Yvette

22:07:40 [bengt]

zakim, [Microsoft] is perhaps Cynthia

22:07:40 [Zakim]

+Cynthia?; got it

22:09:58 [bengt]

zakim, Cynthia is Cynthia_Shelley

22:09:58 [Zakim]

+Cynthia_Shelley; got it

22:10:04 [Yvette]

q+ to say "target audience?"

22:10:07 [Yvette]

ack c

22:11:11 [Yvette]

q-

22:12:02 [Yvette]

q+

22:12:13 [Makoto]

zakim, mute me

22:12:13 [Zakim]

Makoto_Ueki should now be muted

22:15:03 [ben]

ack Yve

22:18:08 [Zakim]

+Alex_Li

22:19:24 [Andi]

resolution: accept "How to meet 2.3.2" with edits

22:20:02 [Andi]

topic: Revised proposal for 4.1.2

22:22:17 [Andi]

resolution: accept reworded guideline 4.1 Support compatibility with current and future user agents

22:22:17 [Andi]

(including assistive technologies)

22:25:11 [Andi]

topic: definition of "publicly documented" that is included in the note for the definition of "programmatically set"

22:31:11 [ben]

current definition: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/appendixA.html#programmaticallydetermineddef

22:34:34 [judy]

http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Patent-Policy-20030520.html

22:35:10 [judy]

sorry, updated version: http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Patent-Policy-20040205/

22:35:22 [Zakim]

-Tim_Boland

22:38:30 [Zakim]

-Yvette_Hoitink

22:38:36 [Zakim]

-Roberto_Scano

22:38:39 [rscano]

rscano has left #wai-wcag

22:40:58 [gregg]

ACK

22:41:03 [gregg]

ACK L

22:43:43 [Andi]

resolution: roll call vote to open up normative definitions of "programmatically set" and "programmatically determined"

22:50:15 [judy]

+1 on being careful on terminology & intent

22:55:20 [gregg]

ACK B

22:55:21 [gregg]

ACK C

22:57:39 [Zakim]

-Alex_Li

22:59:26 [David_MacDonald]

q+

23:00:54 [gregg]

set by software using methods that are user-agent-supported

23:01:03 [Andi]

proposal for definition of "programmatically set" - "set by software using methods that are user-agent-supported"

23:03:07 [Andi]

proposal for definition of "programmatically determined" - "determined by software from data provided in a user-agent-supported manner such that the user agents can extract and present this information to users in different modalities"

23:03:18 [gregg]

ACK B

23:03:24 [gregg]

ACK D

23:04:11 [Zakim]

+David_MacDonald.a

23:06:54 [David_MacDonald]

David_MacDonald has joined #wai-wcag

23:06:55 [Zakim]

+David_MacDonald.aa

23:10:20 [Zakim]

+David_MacDonald.aaa

23:10:54 [gregg]

ACK J

23:12:28 [David_MacDonald]

David_MacDonald has joined #wai-wcag

23:12:34 [David_MacDonald]

q+

23:15:02 [Andi]

amend proposals on definition of "programmatically set" and "programmatically determined" - add and address issue of the availability of the APIs in the information on choosing a baseline.

23:16:10 [Andi]

resolution: accept proposal to remove "publicly documented" from definitions of "programmatically set" and "programmatically determined" and address issue of the availability of interfaces to the information on choosing a baseline.

23:16:11 [judy]

q+

23:16:25 [gregg]

ACK D

23:16:40 [Zakim]

-Becky_Gibson

23:20:27 [Zakim]

-Bengt_Farre

23:20:42 [David_MacDonald]

zakim, mute me

23:20:42 [Zakim]

David_MacDonald should now be muted

23:20:46 [bengt]

bengt has left #wai-wcag

23:21:13 [ben]

zakim, who is on the call?

23:21:14 [Zakim]

On the phone I see John_Slatin, Ben_and_Gregg, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, David_MacDonald (muted), Andi_Snow-Weaver, Michael_Cooper, Judy, Makoto_Ueki (muted), Christophe_Strobbe,

23:21:17 [Zakim]

... Sofia_Celic (muted), Katie_Haritos-Shea, ??P0, Bruce_Bailey, SorchaMoore, Cynthia_Shelley, David_MacDonald.a, David_MacDonald.aa, David_MacDonald.aaa

23:21:28 [Andi]

topic: Understanding guideline 1.1

23:21:44 [ben]

zakim, drop David_MacDonald.a

23:21:44 [Zakim]

'David_MacDonald.a' is ambiguous, ben

23:22:31 [Andi]

resolution: accept "Understanding guideline 1.1" with edits

23:23:12 [Zakim]

-Christophe_Strobbe

23:24:57 [Zakim]

+Christophe_Strobbe

23:28:05 [Andi]

resolution: accept all "Understanding guideline x.y" documents with edits

23:30:56 [Andi]

topic: Failure due to omitting the alt-attribute for non-text content used for decorative purposes only in HTML

23:31:07 [Andi]

resolution: accept with edits

23:31:14 [Andi]

resolution: accept

23:33:13 [Zakim]

-??P0

23:37:38 [judy]

q+ to briefly remind about CR planning

23:37:39 [ben]

zakim, close this item

23:37:40 [Zakim]

agendum 2 closed

23:37:41 [ben]

Present: Sorcha_Moore, Bengt_Farre, John_Slatin, Ben_Caldwell, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Tim_Boland, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, David_MacDonald, Roberto_Scano, Andi_Snow-Weaver, Michael_Cooper, Bruce_Bailey, Judy_Brewer, Becky_Gibson, Makoto_Ueki, Yvette_Hoitink, Christophe_Strobbe, Alex_Li, Sofiea_Celic, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Kerstin_Goldsmith, Cynthia_Shelly

23:37:42 [Zakim]

I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

23:37:43 [Zakim]

3. Understanding Guideline Documents [from ben]

23:37:43 [Zakim]

-Andi_Snow-Weaver

23:37:45 [Zakim]

-Sofia_Celic

23:37:46 [Zakim]

-David_MacDonald.aaa

23:37:46 [Zakim]

-Katie_Haritos-Shea

23:37:47 [Zakim]

-John_Slatin

23:37:47 [Zakim]

-Cynthia_Shelley

23:37:49 [Zakim]

-Makoto_Ueki

23:37:51 [Zakim]

-Ben_and_Gregg

23:37:52 [Sorcha]

Sorcha has left #wai-wcag

23:37:53 [Zakim]

-Bruce_Bailey

23:37:55 [Zakim]

-Christophe_Strobbe

23:37:55 [judy]

q-

23:37:57 [Zakim]

-Loretta_Guarino_Reid

23:38:02 [Zakim]

-Michael_Cooper

23:38:15 [Zakim]

-SorchaMoore

23:44:10 [Christophe]

Christophe has left #wai-wcag

00:28:11 [judy]

judy has left #wai-wcag

00:30:28 [Zakim]

-Judy

00:31:46 [judy]

judy has joined #wai-wcag

00:31:55 [judy]

zakim, who's here?

00:31:55 [Zakim]

On the phone I see David_MacDonald (muted), David_MacDonald.a, David_MacDonald.aa

00:31:58 [Zakim]

On IRC I see judy, RRSAgent, Michael, Zakim

00:32:24 [judy]

zakim, drop David_MacDonald (muted)

00:32:24 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'drop David_MacDonald (muted)', judy

00:32:45 [judy]

zakim, drop David_MacDonald.a

00:32:45 [Zakim]

David_MacDonald.a is being disconnected

00:32:46 [Zakim]

-David_MacDonald.a

00:33:03 [judy]

zakim, drop David_MacDonald

00:33:04 [Zakim]

David_MacDonald is being disconnected

00:33:05 [Zakim]

-David_MacDonald

00:33:09 [judy]

zakim, drop David_MacDonald.aa

00:33:09 [Zakim]

David_MacDonald.aa is being disconnected

00:33:10 [Zakim]

WAI_WCAG()3:00PM has ended

00:33:11 [Zakim]

Attendees were +46.0.73.573.aaaa, John_Slatin, Bengt_Farre, Ben_and_Gregg, Tim_Boland, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, David_MacDonald, Roberto_Scano, [IBM], Michael_Cooper, sorcha, Judy,

00:33:15 [Zakim]

... Becky_Gibson, Makoto_Ueki, Andi_Snow-Weaver, Yvette_Hoitink, Bruce_Bailey, Christophe_Strobbe, Alex_Li, Sofia_Celic, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Kerstin_Goldsmith, [IPcaller],

00:33:17 [Zakim]

... SorchaMoore, Cynthia?, Cynthia_Shelley

00:33:34 [judy]

zakim, who's here?

00:33:34 [Zakim]

apparently WAI_WCAG()3:00PM has ended, judy

00:33:35 [Zakim]

On IRC I see judy, RRSAgent, Michael, Zakim

00:33:44 [judy]

OK.

02:16:49 [Michael]

rrsagent, bye

02:16:49 [RRSAgent]

I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/30-wai-wcag-actions.rdf :

02:16:49 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Andi to add a line in the wording of the text of the Failure technique to ensure that the failure does not cover layout tables [1]

02:16:49 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/30-wai-wcag-irc#T21-18-53