IRC log of ua on 2006-03-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:16:39 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
19:16:39 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/03/30-ua-irc
19:16:54 [JR]
CMN: Has comments about baseline...
19:16:58 [JR]
Topic: Comments on WCAG
19:17:24 [chaals]
Present: Jan, Jim, Chaals
19:17:31 [JR]
CMN: No help in how to guess what browsers users have
19:17:32 [chaals]
Regrets: DavidP, Cathy
19:18:00 [JR]
JA: Hard since no UAUG browsers
19:18:09 [chaals]
scibre: Jan
19:18:12 [JR]
CMN: Yes but they could still provide some guidance
19:18:16 [chaals]
ScribeNick: JR
19:19:00 [JR]
JA: So are you saying there should be some sub-set of UAAG?
19:19:09 [JR]
CMN: Just more help that's all...
19:19:50 [JR]
CMN: Some very basic things can always be assumed.
19:22:17 [JR]
CMN: Should be able to demonstrate that baseline can be supported by ..
19:22:34 [chaals]
... something that meets at least a basic handful of UUAG requirements.
19:23:36 [chaals]
e.g. There must be some browser (including combined systems) available for the set of technologies in the baseline that rpovides keyboard access to all functions, zoom for any visual rendering, and stop/rewind/playback for audio.
19:23:56 [chaals]
(these should actually be specified in terms of UAAG checkpoints... ;) )
19:24:47 [jallan]
for example wcag guideline 1.1 provide text alternative for all non-text alternative
19:25:16 [jallan]
assumes UAAG Guideline 2 ensure user access to all content
19:27:19 [JR]
JR: Isn't this like asking for a UAAG lite
19:29:34 [JR]
CMN: Perhaps UAAG group should work with WCAG to make a "UAAG ultralite" to be used as part of the baseline
19:31:20 [JR]
JA: We've been waiting for Jaws 7.1 to come out to test with Firefox.
19:31:58 [JR]
JA: Does Opera have interest in a UAAG conformance test?
19:32:07 [JR]
CMN: But time is an issue.
19:32:28 [JR]
JA: It took CL 3-4 days
19:33:14 [JR]
JA: What would the minimum set be?
19:34:00 [JR]
JA: Input/Output dependence; access to all info; allow conf not to render some content;...
19:34:24 [JR]
CMN: Needs to be more detailed..
19:38:36 [JR]
CMN: Looking quickly through checkpoints...
19:40:21 [JR]
CMN: IE does 6.4, 6.5 (but Opera doesn't)...
19:40:44 [JR]
CMN: Some in 4 are often done be plugins but not impossible...
19:40:59 [JR]
CMN: 4.1, 4.2, 4.3 no prob...
19:41:40 [JR]
CMN: 4.4 tricky for some formats
19:42:14 [JR]
4.5, 4.6, 4.7 no prob
19:42:22 [JR]
4.8 is tricky
19:43:07 [JR]
JA: 4.9 - 4.12 SR would do, CMN says his browser doesn't usually have an SR hooked up
19:43:24 [JR]
CMN: Fair argument that Level A is actually fine
19:44:26 [JR]
CMN: Just a couple of P1's that might be arguable.
19:45:38 [jallan]
comment that UAAG Priority 1 should be baseline for WCAG 2
19:45:52 [JR]
JR: So are you saying UAWG should suggest UAAG Level A conformant browser in order for wcag2 baseline
19:46:00 [JR]
CMN: Yes
19:46:18 [jallan]
demonstrate that there is a (one) user agent that meets each P1 in UAAG
19:48:32 [JR]
JR: Some developers against DOM etc.
19:48:42 [jallan]
not that there is one user agent that meets all P1 UAAG requirements
19:49:00 [JR]
JR: Which is a P1 (6.2)
19:49:19 [jallan]
WCAG conformance claimaints should not have to guess
19:49:47 [chaals]
what "browsers people with disabilities will use" means.
19:51:32 [JR]
CMN: As a general comment UAAG covers a variety of cases (and so aren't always necessary)
19:52:32 [JR]
CMN: Sometimes there is a crossover...wcag has prohibition against flashing, and uaag has req to stop things from flashing.
19:53:09 [JR]
CMN: SO author could say since there is a UA that stops flashing they are ok to use it in their content.
19:56:01 [JR]
JR: Which way does that relationhip go?
19:56:51 [JR]
CMN: People should be allowed to do things that UA's can screen out, instead of prohibiting, wcag should warn authors that some stuff will be screend by some browsers
19:57:42 [JR]
JA: OK so we need to look through wcag for things that ua's can get people around...
19:59:10 [jallan]
authors should write content that supports User Agent functionality
20:00:04 [jallan]
Use HTML headings then browsers will have mechanism to jump between headings and skip text.
20:00:37 [jallan]
in other ML or Flash author may have to provide a mechanism seperate from User agent functionality
20:02:00 [chaals]
rrsagent, draft minutes
20:02:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/03/30-ua-minutes.html chaals
20:02:05 [Zakim]
-Jan_Richards
20:02:07 [Zakim]
-Jim_Allan
20:02:11 [chaals]
rrsagent, make log public
20:02:20 [chaals]
zakim, drop chaals
20:02:20 [Zakim]
sorry, chaals, I do not see a party named 'chaals'
20:02:32 [chaals]
zakim, drop ipcaller
20:02:32 [Zakim]
[IPcaller] is being disconnected
20:02:33 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has ended
20:02:35 [Zakim]
Attendees were Jim_Allan, Jan_Richards, [IPcaller]
20:02:56 [chaals]
Chair: Jim
20:03:06 [chaals]
rrsagent, draft minutes
20:03:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/03/30-ua-minutes.html chaals
20:03:59 [chaals]
Meeting: UAAG telecon
20:06:01 [chaals]
rrsagent, draft minutes
20:06:01 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/03/30-ua-minutes.html chaals
20:15:12 [chaals]
rrsagent, bye
20:15:12 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items