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14:55:25 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/03/22-i18nits-irc
14:55:33 <fsasaki> meeting: i18n ITS working group
14:55:36 <fsasaki> chair: Yves
14:55:39 <fsasaki> scribe: Felix
14:55:43 <fsasaki> scribeNick: fsasaki
14:55:57 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0189.html
14:58:00 <Zakim> I18N_TS()10:00AM has now started
14:58:07 <Zakim> +Yves_Savourel
14:58:37 <fsasaki> zakim, dial felix-home
14:58:37 <Zakim> ok, fsasaki; the call is being made
14:58:39 <Zakim> +Felix
14:59:43 <Diane> Diane has joined #i18nits
15:01:17 <Zakim> +Diane_Stoick
15:01:38 <chriLi> chriLi has joined #i18nits
15:03:25 <fsasaki> zakim, who is here?
15:03:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see Yves_Savourel, Felix, Diane_Stoick
15:03:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see chriLi, Diane, RRSAgent, Zakim, fsasaki, YvesS
15:04:31 <Zakim> +??P24
15:07:31 <fsasaki> topic: Proposal of not having mapping for translate and dir
15:07:50 <YvesS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0329.html
15:08:21 <fsasaki> Yves: we had some consensus that what we are discribing was not mapping, but passing values
15:08:31 <fsasaki> .. we did not need that mechanism from that
15:08:54 <fsasaki> Diane: so we won't provide any mapping?
15:09:12 <fsasaki> Yves: no, the proposal is to break down mapping in two things
15:09:27 <fsasaki> .. what the currently called "mapping" in the mandelieu proposal
15:09:37 <fsasaki> .. needs a different name like "passTrough"
15:09:48 <fsasaki> .. this would not apply to translatability or directionality
15:10:35 <fsasaki> Christian: what would we have from the individual data categories so far?
15:12:17 <fsasaki> Felix: today we need only to decide if we want to have "passTrough" for these two data categories
15:12:42 <fsasaki> Yves: "passTrough" is necessary for localization information which is already in the document
15:12:54 <fsasaki> .. or term reference which needs to be passed trough
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15:13:10 <fsasaki> .. for translatability, we don't need such mechanism
15:13:19 <fsasaki> .. same thing for directionality
15:13:37 <fsasaki> .. so the proposal today is: call "xxxMap" attributes different, e.g. "xxxPassTrough"
15:14:04 <fsasaki> .. and not to have these attributes for translatability and directionality
15:14:22 <fsasaki> Christian: If we don't need it, let's get rid of it
15:15:05 <fsasaki> .. we would need to change the section on ITS concepts
15:15:26 <fsasaki> Diane: I agree with Christian
15:15:37 <fsasaki> Yves: Sebastian is in agreement as well
15:16:03 <fsasaki> .. let's make the decision to drop "xxxMap" for translatability and directionality
15:17:26 <fsasaki> topic:  New precedence rule (if we have mapping)
15:17:40 <fsasaki> Yves: this is refused for now, since we don't have mapping anymore
15:17:50 <fsasaki> topic: Shall we keep locInfoType of not?
15:17:52 <YvesS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0332.html
15:18:12 <r12a> zakim, dial ishida
15:18:12 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
15:18:28 <fsasaki> Yves: we had some consensus that we don't need the attribute
15:18:40 <r12a> zakim, dial ishida
15:18:40 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
15:18:42 <Zakim> +Ishida
15:19:10 <fsasaki> .. Richard proposed to have a new data category about "alert"
15:19:27 <fsasaki> Yves: "locInfo" as one category, "locAlert" as another one
15:19:51 <chriLi> locInfoAlert and locInfoDescription?
15:20:08 <fsasaki> Richard: that would enable us to keep the two different types of notes
15:20:55 <fsasaki> Yves: as we discussed this, I thought we would get rid of the distinction
15:21:12 <fsasaki> .. I can see the need for the distinction in some cases
15:23:07 <fsasaki> Felix: we would need a more fine grained distinction
15:24:15 <fsasaki> Richard: if you want to have s.t. translated especially, you would use the "alert" variant
15:24:40 <fsasaki> Yves: if you create a new data category, you'd have to use the "passTrough" functionality two times
15:27:10 <fsasaki> .. so we need to keep the distinction, that is consensus
15:28:25 <fsasaki> .. having just an attribute for the distinction is better
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15:29:05 <fsasaki> .. for the record: we keep locInfoType, and see how it goes
15:29:14 <fsasaki> Diane: would you make a default?
15:29:25 <fsasaki> Yves: yes, locally we default would be "description"
15:29:38 <fsasaki> .. globally, the locInfoType would be a mandatory attribute
15:29:52 <fsasaki> .. consensus for that
15:30:21 <fsasaki> .. maybe we put in the spec as an editor note that there is the discussion of a different notation
15:30:38 <YvesS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0332.html
15:30:40 <fsasaki> topic: "Possible conflicts between schemas and instances"
15:30:53 <Zakim> -Ishida
15:31:48 <YvesS> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=2923
15:34:47 <fsasaki> Yves: any comments on Felix description?
15:35:11 <fsasaki> .. we are able to do what Felix described, since we dropped the schemaRule description
15:37:31 <fsasaki> fsasaki has joined #i18nits
15:37:46 <fsasaki> christian: we need this linking mechanism
15:38:05 <fsasaki> Yves: do we have a consensus to close eric's bug?
15:38:06 <fsasaki> .. yes
15:38:26 <fsasaki> action: Felix to enter proposal for the linking mechanism into bugzilla
15:38:46 <fsasaki> topic: other action items
15:39:00 <fsasaki> action: Felix to start the discussion on not having mapping for the translatability and dir (DONE)
15:39:24 <fsasaki> action: Editor's of the techniques document: give examples how to use its:locInfoRef (PENDING)
15:39:31 <fsasaki> felix: I will put that into the next draft
15:39:43 <fsasaki> action: Richard to describe an additional level of conformance for Ruby (PENDING)
15:40:26 <fsasaki> felix: I will ask Richard for a week then he has time to work on this
15:40:47 <fsasaki> action: put a note on the proposal for grouping data categories in next working draft (PENDING)
15:41:04 <fsasaki> Felix: based on a proposal from Sebastian
15:42:37 <fsasaki> action: All to read and comment on RI's notes (DROPPED)
15:42:54 <fsasaki> action: all to work on informal description of ITS, including RI's notes
15:43:09 <fsasaki> action: Christian and Felix need to update their result of conformance discussion in the spec. (ONGOING)
15:44:17 <fsasaki> action: Tag set editors to integrate discussion result about bugs 2881,2,3 (PENDING)
15:44:28 <fsasaki> action: Yves to work on XHTML + ITS modularization (DONE)
15:44:35 <YvesS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0344.html
15:44:46 <YvesS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/att-0344/XHTML_Modularization.html
15:45:35 <fsasaki> Christian: two comments:
15:45:47 <fsasaki> .. Richard said many people don't use dt
15:46:11 <fsasaki> .. I said, if we come up with a standard modularization, we should only consider what people should be doing
15:46:29 <fsasaki> .. my other comment was:
15:47:11 <fsasaki> .. if we look at the data category for terminology, the host vocabulary has maybe not a single container
15:47:31 <fsasaki> .. e.g. a term in <dt> elements, versus terms in special attributes <t> elements
15:47:52 <fsasaki> .. the question was if there is a mechanism "both are terms in the sense of ITS"
15:48:10 <fsasaki> Yves: ITS allows that, we just would have two rules instead of one
15:48:45 <fsasaki> .. as for the termRule element, did we decide to get rid of the term="yes" attribute?
15:48:52 <fsasaki> Felix: yes, I think we decided that
15:50:08 <fsasaki> action: Felix to add the xhtml section to the spec
15:51:04 <fsasaki> Felix: I propose to have these sections (XHTML, xmlspec, TEI) in separate documents
15:51:14 <fsasaki> Yves: need to address XHTML 2.0?
15:51:17 <fsasaki> Felix: no
15:51:22 <fsasaki> topic: XTech
15:53:13 <fsasaki> Felix: Sebastian said he will write s.t. about the ODD format
15:53:26 <fsasaki> .. the deadline is on April 15
15:53:51 <fsasaki> Christian: I could take introductory sections from the updated spec
15:54:39 <fsasaki> Felix: that sounds good. we should take RI's stuff also into account
15:55:47 <fsasaki> action: Felix to provide ODF template for XTech
15:56:05 <fsasaki> topic: discussions to be decided at next meeting
15:57:06 <fsasaki> Yves: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3000 on extensiblity
15:57:42 <fsasaki> .. then: renaming things: "documentRules" versus "rules", and renaming of "pass trough like" attributes (e.g. "xxxPointer")
15:58:05 <fsasaki> .. third topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=2924 (why a closed list of schema languages?)
15:59:38 <fsasaki> Felix: how about discussing the "real mapping" proposal, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0375.html ?
15:59:42 <fsasaki> Yves: sounds good
15:59:52 <fsasaki> topic: relationship DITA versus XLIFF
16:00:05 <fsasaki> Christian: at the XLIFF TC, we are discussing this relationship
16:00:15 <fsasaki> .. some people say: you need to translate DITA to XLIFF
16:00:23 <fsasaki> .. others say: you don't need to do that
16:00:43 <fsasaki> Yves: I'd say it depends on the implementation of translation
16:01:05 <fsasaki> .. sometimes you use XLIFF internally, so nobody notices it
16:01:15 <fsasaki> Christian: It is also important for the DITA TC
16:01:57 <fsasaki> .. if you are using DITA "document like", and then convert it to XLIFF, you use some context information
16:02:05 <fsasaki> .. which you might have with plain DITA
16:02:27 <fsasaki> topic: DITA
16:02:42 <fsasaki> Yves: they move forward in implementing xml:lang and directionality
16:02:46 <fsasaki> .. which is good
16:03:02 <fsasaki> topic: face-to-face
16:03:08 <fsasaki> Diane: I won't be able to come
16:03:21 <fsasaki> Yves: Christian, Sebastian, me and Felix will come
16:03:36 <fsasaki> topic: next meeting - time difference
16:03:50 <fsasaki> Yves: the meeting will be one hour earlier in Europe
16:04:57 <fsasaki> topic: editor's call
16:05:09 <Zakim> -Diane_Stoick
16:05:11 <Zakim> -Yves_Savourel
16:05:22 <fsasaki> Yves: we will have one on Friday, discussing the non-normative parts of the tagset document
16:05:59 <fsasaki> rrsagent, make log public
16:12:13 <fsasaki> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:12:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/03/22-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
16:20:30 <Zakim> -Christian
16:20:35 <Zakim> -Felix
16:20:37 <Zakim> I18N_TS()10:00AM has ended
16:20:39 <Zakim> Attendees were Yves_Savourel, Felix, Diane_Stoick, Christian, Ishida
17:47:14 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18nits
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